The way to a Dominant's heart

[Blushing Bottom]

There is much beauty here...almost poetic.

To surrender mind, body and soul is the gift of being and nothingness. To empty the self of its essence and by giving it into the keeping of another is an act of supplicance.

And though it may not be the way to a Dominant's heart...it is a good beginning.

I am not sure where I am going with this thread, but for some reason I feel a need to start it and let it go where it will.

As a Dom these things are true for me...perhaps other can share what is true for them or comment on what others share.

Nothing gets "my attention" more than when a submissive submits.

There is nothing more "beautiful" than when a submissive submits.

Nothing "turns me on" more than when a submissive submits.

Nothing else seems to brings more "balance" into my world that when a submissive submits.

Nothing else "strengthens my confidence" more than when a submissive submits.

Nothing cools or "calms my anger" when a submissive submits.

Nothing breaks through my stubborness more than when a submissive submits.

Nothing resloves conflict faster or more effeciently than when a submissive submits.

A woman can be intelligent, sexy, funny, active, playful, charming, and much much more, but all of that will lose its luster quickly if it does not have its proper place through submission.

To sum up:

What gets my attention, what I find extremely beautiful and turns me on, is a woman who submits(heart/mind/body). I emensly enjoy the balance and confidence I feel when a woman is acting and being submissive. When I am upset, angry, displeased and being stubborn, the soft word or a submissive act will soften my heart and open my ears...especially when I know I am in the wrong.

I am not into forced submission, either the person I am in a relationship with knows their place and is there because they desire to be a part of me and who I am, or they don't. For the one who understands this, she has found the way to my heart, and I will never leave her wanting.

The beauty and power of a submissive, they gain everything by losing all.

When I don't have a submissive, I do what I can to get by but I am not happy nor do I enjoy the extremes I endure when alone.

 

[BeachGurl2]

LOL. I'm learning quite a bit too!

Most notably.... there's a lot of behind-the-scenes soap opera crap that goes on here! Who knew?!?

Apparently.

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL. I'm learning quite a bit too!

Most notably.... there's a lot of behind-the-scenes soap opera crap that goes on here! Who knew?!?

LOL, now don't tell me Alice that you were another one of those people who had this image that BDSMers had to be above the behavior and feelings of the average manstream vanilla!! Disappointing as it is to most of us , we are still only human and just as imperfect in that humanity.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

LOL, now don't tell me Alice that you were another one of those people who had this image that BDSMers had to be above the behavior and feelings of the average manstream vanilla!! Disappointing as it is to most of us , we are still only human and just as imperfect in that humanity.

Catalina

LOL, Catalina!

My comment was really just intended to lighten up what was becoming a truly tense thread. Clearly I'm better at pathos than humor.... a fact which I probably should remember in the future......

As long as I am laughing at myself, however, I'll tell you something which might have you (and others) laughing at me too.

I have been here since October, and it wasn't until last week that I knew how to activate the PM feature on my account. LOL! How pathetic is that?!?

That was part of the reason I found humor in the reference to PMs earlier on this thread.

Proved clueless once again.....

Alice

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have been here since October, and it wasn't until last week that I knew how to activate the PM feature on my account. LOL! How pathetic is that?!?

That was part of the reason I found humor in the reference to PMs earlier on this thread.

Proved clueless once again.....

Alice

LOL, never fear, I am still learning my way around here and various sites...I am clueless and it is pathetic considering the rest of this household are internet savvy...lol, F actually works in IT thoughout Europe and a few other places, and gets frustrated with me so I try not to ask unless I am out of options. Good thing was he did his magic on my PC tonight and made sure it was virus free.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

LOL, Catalina!

My comment was really just intended to lighten up what was becoming a truly tense thread. Clearly I'm better at pathos than humor.... a fact which I probably should remember in the future......

As long as I am laughing at myself, however, I'll tell you something which might have you (and others) laughing at me too.

I have been here since October, and it wasn't until last week that I knew how to activate the PM feature on my account. LOL! How pathetic is that?!?

That was part of the reason I found humor in the reference to PMs earlier on this thread.

Proved clueless once again.....

Alice

shoulda PMed me i woulda helped

 

[alice_underneath]

shoulda PMed me i woulda helped

LOL. Next time.....

 

[alice_underneath]

LOL, never fear, I am still learning my way around here and various sites...I am clueless and it is pathetic considering the rest of this household are internet savvy...lol, F actually works in IT thoughout Europe and a few other places, and gets frustrated with me so I try not to ask unless I am out of options. Good thing was he did his magic on my PC tonight and made sure it was virus free.

Catalina

Here's a story which you, as a parent, might find humorous.

Shortly before Christmas, I decided to send Graceanne a private message of support. To do so, I went back to Lit's "Search Members" section, searched for her name, found her general story feedback page, and sent her a message.

Then I decided: Sheesh! That was annoying! There must be an easier way to do this.

The computer whiz in my house is my 14 year old son. (Let's call him "S".)

I called to the next room: "Hey, S! Would you please come here and help me figure out this website?"



He was 3 feet from the computer when I came to my senses and slammed the laptop shut. I quickly said - "Nevermind!" - and later figured out how to do it myself.

Alice

 

[graceanne]

Here's a story which you, as a parent, might find humorous.

Shortly before Christmas, I decided to send Graceanne a private message of support. To do so, I went back to Lit's "Search Members" section, searched for her name, found her general story feedback page, and sent her a message.

Then I decided: Sheesh! That was annoying! There must be an easier way to do this.

The computer whiz in my house is my 14 year old son. (Let's call him "S".)

I called to the next room: "Hey, S! Would you please come here and help me figure out this website?"



He was 3 feet from the computer when I came to my senses and slammed the laptop shut. I quickly said - "Nevermind!" - and later figured out how to do it myself.

Alice

OMG You're that Alice?!? LOL I had no idea. Thought you were just a newbie that I liked. hehe

 

[RJMasters]

There is much beauty here...almost poetic.

To surrender mind, body and soul is the gift of being and nothingness. To empty the self of its essence and by giving it into the keeping of another is an act of supplicance.

And though it may not be the way to a Dominant's heart...it is a good beginning.

Thank You Blushing Bottom.

There was some other comment posted saying something about a poem being in there somewhere.

I remember when I started this thread I really wasn't sure what I was looking to do. I just sort of blurted it out...Nice to know that even blurts can be poetic in a sense. I have a whole volume of discourse upon submission of three levels Mind, Heart and Body(similar to what you mentioned the mind, body and soul), perhaps one day I will get around to publishing it. Of course if you ever want to complicate something, as the saying goes, just give it to a man.

Let them...
Let them, I say!
Let them labor and toil under the hot sun in the fields
Scratching and clawing in the dirt till they are faint with sacrifice
I prefer to sit by the river and contemplate its submissive flow.


I would like to ask you a question reguarding your post ....

You wrote:

"To surrender mind, body and soul is the gift of being"

But then you added

"and nothingness"

Could you please explain to me what it is you meant by add this at the end. It may be that I just woke up and can't get the wheels turning to get my mind around it. Thank in advance for your time in doing so.

 

[alice_underneath]

Maybe I am just saying the way to a Dom/me's heart is through submission...you wouldn't think that needed to be said.

The BDSM counterpart of the phrase "A way to a man's heart is through his stomach". Which is true if you are talking about lasana or a sharpe knife.

Like so many things here at Lit, this comparison confuses me. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comments, RJ, or perhaps I just have a weird personal concept of what "submission" means.

But I have a very strong, very negative reaction to the idea that "the way to a Dom's heart is through submission".

On a different thread, I wrote: My own personal view of d/s is that calling a dom "Sir" would be like offering him my body. I would only do this if I respected and loved and trusted him enough for this type of intimacy.

There is just no way I would do this unless I were reasonably certain that he loved, respected, and trusted me in return.

In other words, I would not submit unless I were reasonably certain that I had already made my way into the Dom's heart.

I'm not sure what this attitude says about me. Perhaps this reflects excessive pride, or perhaps a fear of rejection. Perhaps it just means that I would be a really, really bad sub! LOL! I don't really know.

But I just couldn't "do" submission the way you've described it.

I could understand and appreciate the idea that the way to keep a Dom's heart is through submission. But the idea of submission as a way to inspire a guy to fall in love just doesn't work for me.

Alice

 

[catalina_francisco]

Like so many things here at Lit, this comparison confuses me. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comments, RJ, or perhaps I just have a weird personal concept of what "submission" means.

But I have a very strong, very negative reaction to the idea that "the way to a Dom's heart is through submission".

On a different thread, I wrote: My own personal view of d/s is that calling a dom "Sir" would be like offering him my body. I would only do this if I respected and loved and trusted him enough for this type of intimacy.

There is just no way I would do this unless I were reasonably certain that he loved, respected, and trusted me in return.

In other words, I would not submit unless I were reasonably certain that I had already made my way into the Dom's heart.

I'm not sure what this attitude says about me. Perhaps this reflects excessive pride, or perhaps a fear of rejection. Perhaps it just means that I would be a really, really bad sub! LOL! I don't really know.

But I just couldn't "do" submission the way you've described it.

I could understand and appreciate the idea that the way to keep a Dom's heart is through submission. But the idea of submission as a way to inspire a guy to fall in love just doesn't work for me.

Alice

I can't speak for RJ, and perhaps it is a little misinterpretation of his words, or his incorrect wording, but what you say Alice speaks to me as a slave. There are a lot of submissives out there who claim to want to submit immediately upon the first commection, that being face to face though more often online. Our take on that is they are more of the variety we think of as role players and/or doormats which then makes their submission of little value because the only reason you would have it is becasue you were the first in line to make that connection more so than inspiring a reason to submit. Unfortunately, a lot of people, Dominant and submissive alike believe this is what submission should be all about....blind submission to the first one who comes along and says OK. I prefer a D/s dynamic which is earned through growth and respect of each other and what each offers the other in terms of compatibility and trust and honesty, not to mention reality.

Catalina

 

[RJMasters]

Like so many things here at Lit, this comparison confuses me. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comments, RJ, or perhaps I just have a weird personal concept of what "submission" means.

But I have a very strong, very negative reaction to the idea that "the way to a Dom's heart is through submission".

On a different thread, I wrote: My own personal view of d/s is that calling a dom "Sir" would be like offering him my body. I would only do this if I respected and loved and trusted him enough for this type of intimacy.

There is just no way I would do this unless I were reasonably certain that he loved, respected, and trusted me in return.

In other words, I would not submit unless I were reasonably certain that I had already made my way into the Dom's heart.

I'm not sure what this attitude says about me. Perhaps this reflects excessive pride, or perhaps a fear of rejection. Perhaps it just means that I would be a really, really bad sub! LOL! I don't really know.

But I just couldn't "do" submission the way you've described it.

I could understand and appreciate the idea that the way to keep a Dom's heart is through submission. But the idea of submission as a way to inspire a guy to fall in love just doesn't work for me.

Alice

What Cat said.

To add to that...directly in response to you Alice is that much of this is with the idea of an already ongoing relationship.

I admit this thread was worded poorly. Perhaps what you said

I could understand and appreciate the idea that the way to keep a Dom's heart is through submission.

Might be more precise.

But in some ways I think it can be both.

I will write more later when I have time...

 

[BeachGurl2]

I can't speak for RJ, and perhaps it is a little misinterpretation of his words, or his incorrect wording, but what you say Alice speaks to me as a slave. There are a lot of submissives out there who claim to want to submit immediately upon the first commection, that being face to face though more often online. Our take on that is they are more of the variety we think of as role players and/or doormats which then makes their submission of little value because the only reason you would have it is becasue you were the first in line to make that connection more so than inspiring a reason to submit. Unfortunately, a lot of people, Dominant and submissive alike believe this is what submission should be all about....blind submission to the first one who comes along and says OK. I prefer a D/s dynamic which is earned through growth and respect of each other and what each offers the other in terms of compatibility and trust and honesty, not to mention reality.

Catalina

I would have to agree with both you and Alice on this one. As I said on another thread recently, my submission is a gift of my soul, the very core of my being. For me, that can't be given out of anything less than mutual trust, love and respect. However, once given, all the things on RJ's list would then occur because for me it would be total submission to that person.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[alice_underneath]

I can't speak for RJ, and perhaps it is a little misinterpretation of his words, or his incorrect wording, but what you say Alice speaks to me as a slave. There are a lot of submissives out there who claim to want to submit immediately upon the first commection, that being face to face though more often online. Our take on that is they are more of the variety we think of as role players and/or doormats which then makes their submission of little value because the only reason you would have it is becasue you were the first in line to make that connection more so than inspiring a reason to submit. Unfortunately, a lot of people, Dominant and submissive alike believe this is what submission should be all about....blind submission to the first one who comes along and says OK. I prefer a D/s dynamic which is earned through growth and respect of each other and what each offers the other in terms of compatibility and trust and honesty, not to mention reality.

Catalina

Thank you, Catalina. For various reasons, I deeply appreciate this response.

You mention "online" and "reality" here, and I have noticed an occasional sensitivity & possible misinterpretation of your comments on these issues. For the benefit of those who may not have read it, I would like to copy & paste here a comment that you made on another thread. (Hopefully, it is not considered bad form to do so.)

I have had the online thing, that is what and who brought me to this moment in my life where I am blissfully in a permanent RL relationship with F. Have to say that the online relationship had depth and realness, partly because the one I shared it with had some fairly interesting and amazing qualities about him, and to this day he remains a true friend though we have never met in RL as yet. Did I lie to him about anything? No, I could not have done that partly because it is not me to willingly lie in any circumstance, and partly because I wanted the experience and wisdom he could give me, not to mention his respect and honesty in return.

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=15178057&postcount=34

Respectfully,
Alice

 

[alice_underneath]

What Cat said.

To add to that...directly in response to you Alice is that much of this is with the idea of an already ongoing relationship.

I admit this thread was worded poorly. Perhaps what you said

I could understand and appreciate the idea that the way to keep a Dom's heart is through submission.

Might be more precise.

But in some ways I think it can be both.

I will write more later when I have time...

No rush obviously, but whenever you a chance, I would be interested to know what you mean by "in some ways I think it can be both".

I find myself wondering if what you might mean is that there are different levels of submission, or if you view submission as a gradual progression.

To use my analogy of physical intimacy, there is obviously quite a bit in between the absence of any physical contact and complete penetration. Perhaps you are contemplating a similar type of progression here.

In any case, this is a very interesting topic for discussion.

Alice

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you, Catalina. For various reasons, I deeply appreciate this response.

You mention "online" and "reality" here, and I have noticed an occasional sensitivity & possible misinterpretation of your comments on these issues. For the benefit of those who may not have read it, I would like to copy & paste here a comment that you made on another thread. (Hopefully, it is not considered bad form to do so.)

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=15178057&postcount=34

Respectfully,
Alice

Puzzled as to why you would feel you need do it, but it doesn't overly bother me as I stand by what I say (umm, and it is in the forum and was posted by me), the two are different and no amount of wishing or providing similarities makes it the same. As I have said, it is relevent to speak in terms of which it is so people have some reference as to where the posting is coming from. If someone says they have been caned, I usually expect they mean in reality, not online...but experience has shown me that some are actually speaking of online and believe me, it is a vastly different situation to experience it in reality, and in some ways I find it insulting for those who practice these things online to insist it is the same and should not be mentioned. An online caning cannot harm you physically, a reality one can harm significantly...so for someone to relate their experience to someone inexperienced, put across an impression there is no need for caution or concern, not mention they actually have not ever been caned for real, I see it as dangerous and false. As you will also see from my postings throughout the forum and threads about my past online experience, we did not play these games of 'whip me, whip me...oooh that hurts so good'...it was much more based on the psychological with a real mentorship which guided me intentionally to where I am today...no velcro collor stuff etc.

Someone here took offence recently that I mention RL in posts, my take on it is they have an issue they need to deal with if my mentioning RL when speaking of how I live my life and what I do and have done upsets or offends them....it is my life, my experience. It is especially strange when at the top of the forum it states the forum was established to discuss RL BDSM, but others were welcome to join discussions also and share their own thoughts and experiences. Unfortunately, due to issues of online people telling people in RL relationships they should not mention it, and pushing the agenda it is not wanted here, has resulted in us losing several good and highly respected posters with invalueable experience to share. I will continue to mention RL as it is my life 24/7 and I have never been one who liked being made to feel I should cover who I am, not to mention I walked a long and hard road to get to where I am so am not going to begin apologising. LOL, when we first were married and began our journey, I even was told by a few that I should not show my joy and happiness as it might upset people and make them envious or what I had found. As I have said, if it bothers people, they need to look at their issues as to why they don't like it.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

Puzzled as to why you would feel you need do it <snip> Someone here took offence recently <snip>

The latter explains the former.

at the top of the forum it states the forum was established to discuss RL BDSM, but others were welcome to join discussions also and share their own thoughts and experiences.

Lucky for me, huh! LOL. As you know, I have no BDSM experience - online, offline, or anywhere else. So I am grateful for the welcome extended to those "others".

Alice

 

[RJMasters]

No rush obviously, but whenever you a chance, I would be interested to know what you mean by "in some ways I think it can be both".

I find myself wondering if what you might mean is that there are different levels of submission, or if you view submission as a gradual progression.

To use my analogy of physical intimacy, there is obviously quite a bit in between the absence of any physical contact and complete penetration. Perhaps you are contemplating a similar type of progression here.

In any case, this is a very interesting topic for discussion.

Alice

Ok back to how it can be both.

I think mostly this was written with the thought in mind of an ongoing relationship. I think it also assumes alot in the way it was written, hence there have been many who have misinterpreted it. If you go back read through the thread, you will note the Des also brought up some questions as to the doormat. you may glean from some of my responses to her some more of what I meant as well.

Those who know me on a more persaonl basis know for a fact I am not a dictator, pigheaded and stubborn at times to be sure.

This thread is mostly about what I find attractive, what gets my attention, what often dictates how I respond in various circumstances in life. In my original thread:

What gets my attention, what I find extremely beautiful and turns me on, is a woman who submits(heart/mind/body). I emensly enjoy the balance and confidence I feel when a woman is acting and being submissive. When I am upset, angry, displeased and being stubborn, the soft word or a submissive act will soften my heart and open my ears...especially when I know I am in the wrong.

I am not into forced submission, either the person I am in a relationship with knows their place and is there because they desire to be a part of me and who I am, or they don't. For the one who understands this, she has found the way to my heart, and I will never leave her wanting.

Although this reflects an ongoing relationship, I think I can also say that what attracts me to certain women is the way they carry themselves. Not that I expect women to submit to me who are not in a relationship with me, but more of displaying many of the characteristics I associate with a submissive woman. One glance at the Forums here on Lit shows that submissives can be many things and express themselves in many ways. How they express themselves certainly impacts wheather or not I would even be interested in wanting to have a relationship with them. So in this way it can be a way to my heart. I watch and I notice how people express themselves. I see how they react. I watch to see if they stand up for themselves and this tells me often if they have a high self esteem. I also will take note in "how" they stand up for themselves and it is here that often makes a heavier determination.

Often on this forum when someone trys to express something they are thinking or feeling, sometimes the tendency is to take what they are saying as something written in stone as if its the law. I can assure you this thread was just me trying to express a bit of what makes me tick. I am sure as many have said like AA, some of this fits and some don't. Even now after a year has passed I go back and re-read this post I made and I can see how somethings fit for me and some don't. More of an overtone that relationships are much more complicated than...do this and this will happen.

However I do know enough about me and how I react in situations. I know if I am having a disagreement with a person I am in a relationship with, and that disagreement reaches the point of anger, continuing to push is not going to get the desired result. Quite opposite to that, if that person says to me I disagree but accept your decision, you can be sure I will coming back with, well let's discuss this some more so I can further understand why you disagree, maybe I have over looked something here. Notice the difference in how I react. Maybe that sucky...idk, but I know that is the way I am wired. I do know that if I am in a relationship with someone, it is because I care for them and love them, and their happiness is my concern.

In regards to your comment about submission being a progression. I think that is very true. Throughout the normal highs and lows of any relationship...many things are tested. Love, trust, caring....and dominance/submission. As two people face things together and grow together, experience brings with it a deeping of all of these. Over time people get to know each other's buttons/swithces and how to push one way or the other. I think that is why I said, for the woman who learns this about me(over time in a relationship) she has found the way to my heart.

 

[Kajira Callista]

So suppose this person learns about you through all your posts.... and learns how to get to your heart, but doesnt do it for any other reason besides the challenge. Once they get in they will go away.
Nothing left but an empty heart and all these words and so called actions that were typed without emotion to provoke a certain reaction in you.
Yeah off topic *shrug* but only because you (rj) painted a very pretty picture with your words when in fact this whole D/s thing is not always a pretty picture.











KC is just in a mood today...sorry

 

[alice_underneath]

Ok back to how it can be both.

I think mostly this was written with the thought in mind of an ongoing relationship. I think it also assumes alot in the way it was written, hence there have been many who have misinterpreted it. If you go back read through the thread, you will note the Des also brought up some questions as to the doormat. you may glean from some of my responses to her some more of what I meant as well.

Those who know me on a more persaonl basis know for a fact I am not a dictator, pigheaded and stubborn at times to be sure.

This thread is mostly about what I find attractive, what gets my attention, what often dictates how I respond in various circumstances in life. In my original thread:



Although this reflects an ongoing relationship, I think I can also say that what attracts me to certain women is the way they carry themselves. Not that I expect women to submit to me who are not in a relationship with me, but more of displaying many of the characteristics I associate with a submissive woman. One glance at the Forums here on Lit shows that submissives can be many things and express themselves in many ways. How they express themselves certainly impacts wheather or not I would even be interested in wanting to have a relationship with them. So in this way it can be a way to my heart. I watch and I notice how people express themselves. I see how they react. I watch to see if they stand up for themselves and this tells me often if they have a high self esteem. I also will take note in "how" they stand up for themselves and it is here that often makes a heavier determination.

Often on this forum when someone trys to express something they are thinking or feeling, sometimes the tendency is to take what they are saying as something written in stone as if its the law. I can assure you this thread was just me trying to express a bit of what makes me tick. I am sure as many have said like AA, some of this fits and some don't. Even now after a year has passed I go back and re-read this post I made and I can see how somethings fit for me and some don't. More of an overtone that relationships are much more complicated than...do this and this will happen.

However I do know enough about me and how I react in situations. I know if I am having a disagreement with a person I am in a relationship with, and that disagreement reaches the point of anger, continuing to push is not going to get the desired result. Quite opposite to that, if that person says to me I disagree but accept your decision, you can be sure I will coming back with, well let's discuss this some more so I can further understand why you disagree, maybe I have over looked something here. Notice the difference in how I react. Maybe that sucky...idk, but I know that is the way I am wired. I do know that if I am in a relationship with someone, it is because I care for them and love them, and their happiness is my concern.

In regards to your comment about submission being a progression. I think that is very true. Throughout the normal highs and lows of any relationship...many things are tested. Love, trust, caring....and dominance/submission. As two people face things together and grow together, experience brings with it a deeping of all of these. Over time people get to know each other's buttons/swithces and how to push one way or the other. I think that is why I said, for the woman who learns this about me(over time in a relationship) she has found the way to my heart.

Earlier on the thread, I stated that "I have a very strong, very negative reaction to the idea that 'the way to a Dom's heart is through submission'. "

I was reacting to the idea that a submissive woman would/should/could submit to a guy in the hope that he would then begin to love, trust, and respect her.

What you are describing here is very different from my initial interpretation of your comments.

Saying that you are attracted to someone because she displays "many of the characteristics you associate with a submissive woman" is very different from saying that you expect a woman to actually submit to you before you will establish a relationship and let her into your heart.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify.

Alice

 

[alice_underneath]

So suppose this person learns about you through all your posts.... and learns how to get to your heart, but doesnt do it for any other reason besides the challenge. Once they get in they will go away.
Nothing left but an empty heart and all these words and so called actions that were typed without emotion to provoke a certain reaction in you.
Yeah off topic *shrug* but only because you (rj) painted a very pretty picture with your words when in fact this whole D/s thing is not always a pretty picture.

Love and relationships are not always a pretty thing in the vanilla world either.

Disingenuous bitches exist everywhere. Online/offline, vanilla/kink.

Just a fact of life.

Alice

 

[RJMasters]

As I have said, it is relevent to speak in terms of which it is so people have some reference as to where the posting is coming from. If someone says they have been caned, I usually expect they mean in reality, not online...but experience has shown me that some are actually speaking of online and believe me, it is a vastly different situation to experience it in reality, and in some ways I find it insulting for those who practice these things online to insist it is the same and should not be mentioned. An online caning cannot harm you physically, a reality one can harm significantly...so for someone to relate their experience to someone inexperienced, put across an impression there is no need for caution or concern, not mention they actually have not ever been caned for real, I see it as dangerous and false.

Catalina

Catalina,

This post rememindeed me of something I have been wanting to ask you. In all the time I have been here at Lit, I haven't really ever seen a good example of what you mentioned here. I am hard pressed to find examples of people who are onliners, jumping in and giving instructions or advice to people on how to go about caning, or other activities which may be dangerious without real life experience.

If you say there are, I guess I am not paying attention or that happened before my time here at Lit. I have seen some people who are online offer advice with a disclaimer that their experience is only online and I know myself, I often share my experience of online, but the majority of my posting is largely about the dynamic shared at the emotional and mental level of D/s. times where I felt that it warrented it, I too have added the disclaimer. Most recently in the "Trained to come thread". Though I didn't see any thing I offered in that thread as being dangerious, I still added it as I felt people should know given the way the discussion on that thread had gone.

I am not thinking that your comments are directed at me, just feel more comfortable using myself as an example. But I do notice you use this example of the caning quite alot to make a point about the importance of understanding the difference between online and RL. And I certainly agree with you 100%.

I also agree that real life relationship and online are very different and for safety reasons that difference needs to be respected. That is not to say that both are not real and I think you would agree with me if I have read your other posts on this topic correctly elsewhere.

However, I can show you many posts that have nothing to do with a person being in any danger or fitting the criteria you mentioned, but clearly insinuates the submission of an online submissive as not being genuine or real, and just as many posts which say the dominance of a person online isn't genuine or real. That is because in their opinion genuine emotions of love, trust and respect or other things shared or felt in a D/s relationship... cannot be real over an Internet medium. But of course that is thier opinion and that is their perogative to feel that way. Mine is, I can agree they are different, but they are real and no less valid.

There was a time I use to get angry when RL'ers use to try to say that what I do online isn't real, because at the time in my way of thinking, it was akin to them saying I was a liar. I come to realize that RL'ers have issues too.

I really understand why RL'ers hate to be lumped in with onliners. I can see why they have a desire for distinction for many reasons and I don't begrudge them for that. It certainly would be great if the BDSM talk section here at lit had a RL BDSM section and a OL BDSM. Not saying that either couldnt post in either section, but that it would be better understood the difference between the two and lead to less conflict and people leaving. RL'ers tend to think that everything online is roleplay and are obliged to direct people to the roleplay sections of Lit. The reason that doesn't work is because, just because RL'ers think what OL'ers do online is roleplay, for many OL'ers it isn't. I know for me, I am not some guy who is trying to play some role so I can find someone to cyber with.

Since this seems to be the longest and most continued problem that has existed on this forum, why hasn't there been any changes to better accomendate the two different camps to make everyone more happier?

 

[catalina_francisco]

No, I don't think you are getting it, and I suspect you have not noticed many of the posts I speak of as some were before your time, but many have been since, even recent months. Also I suspect as you are not a moderator you don't have occasion to read each post or as near to as possible. They not only relate to things such as caning, but also how people can expect to feel after such events or in a D/s relationship, often from people who don't even have the experience of online. I have even actually only discovered it a couple of times when I have commented on something I did not ever know of happening the way which a poster has described or advised a newbie on, to then be told by the poster they actually have no experience, or only online, but this is what they think it would be like. They do not add that in their original advice, so yes, it is misleading and I get the impression it is done so with a purpose. From memory. I believe this happened with Alice when I read a post of hers and had missed the couple of posts she had mentioned being vanilla, instead seeing a lot of posts that did not mention it, and so mistakenly thought she was talking from a postion of having experience of whatever it was being discussed...after that she began mentioning she did not have experience but that she was saying how she felt or thought which IMHO is fine. What I am fed up with is being told by vanilla and onliners who come here, that I should not mention I am in a RL relationship or have RL experience. Why not? It is relevent when I mention it because I am speaking of my experience and answering what has been asked or is being discussed.

Another time I mention RL and online as ways of being are when I mention our current discussions with prospective subs and Dominants for play. You know what the funny thing is? I have never been wrong in my initial assessment of them when they have no experience and when asked, admit it is limited to fantasy, sometimes online, and porn...often even by reading a profile alone I pick up on it....know why? Because I have extensive RL experience (and online though not of the calibre of 'oh, that hurt when you spanked me Master' type, and once only in an effort to learn and move to RL) which usually makes it easy to pick those who don't in a moment. Do we discard them once that is discovered? No, we actually make first contact with some who have no experience, and they are not passed over unless they have a bad attitude or feel that RL is going to be the same as online etc., and insist they don't need safe words, and show signs they are very into unsafe play and not listening.

When I start telling people they should not mention they are online players, or they are vanilla, or they don't even know if they are interested in BDSM or D/s, then I expect I should not have a problem with those people chastising me for saying anything about RL, especially when it is relevant. At this point in time I have encouraged everyone to say what their experience is and relate it to others...as I said, if they have a problem with my or anyone's RL experiences and mentioning it when discussing anything on this or any BDSM board, then might I suggest the problem is not mine but theirs and they should begin to look at why they feel so strongly that I and others with experience should try and hide that fact, while they post however they like, often omitting the fact they are not speaking from any experience apart from their fantasies. Could part of the problem be as Alice keeps saying in her posts, that they feel they are clueless or not relating to what is being discussed?...not my problem and as I am sure you will agree, everyone here with experience does try then to explain matters in a friendly way. This is a BDSM board after all, not a RPF or a GB. Difference does not mean better or worse, but can make a hell of a lot of difference when talking about some topics, which is all I have ever said, but which some have an issue with and try to imply otherwise.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

Difference does not mean better or worse, but can make a hell of a lot of difference when talking about some topics, which is all I have ever said, but which some have an issue with and try to imply otherwise.

Catalina,

My interpretation of your various posts on this board is that you do believe that online submission and dominance can be "real". Further, that you believe that online d/s can be a wonderful way for two people to have a meaningful d/s relationship.

That is how I read the clip of yours that I posted earlier, and that is part of my reason for posting it. In a way, I was posting it in your defense - to distinguish you from those who actually do make spiteful, derogatory, and truly nasty comments targeting people in online relationships.

Your version of BDSM clearly includes quite a bit of dramatic physical activity (caning, branding, etc.) that may be totally absent from many others' (online or off). To me, this explains your focus on safety, etc. What goes on in your "play" sessions will be very, very dangerous if the person does not have "real life experience". Given this focus, your personal emphasis on real life experience makes perfect sense.

But you do acknowledge that online dominance and submission is "real", and that's the important point.

However, I would ask you to consider something. While its true that some people objecting to criticism of OL d/s might "have issues", others may just be sick & tired of being insulted!

If your only choice was to post on the GB, and you kept reading snide & obnoxious comments about a relationship that you treasure.... well, you eventually might get fed up & lash out, too. Unfortunately, in doing so, you might inadvertently lash out at the wrong person.

RJ had an interesting idea about splitting the Board. Has this been discussed before? If so, is there a reason for not making the split?

Alice