the whole "dont look at me" thing

[s'lara]

i am also direct eye contact challenged. Particularly with men.

i don't believe my inability to make eye contact is representative of my submissiveness, but i do believe it is a part of the whole deal.

Bottom line, if the Dominant in question doesn't want you to make eye contact, and your relationship is based on one where you are not given the right to veto that decision, then study the tips of your toes.

Loved the "what are you looking at?" scenario. Intimidation on a silver platter. A well timed shut the eff up also has a place on the menu.

lara

 

[le Dragon Noir]

One second too long a look can start the chain of events that lead to a fight, as any man knows: something to consider while pondering this issue.

taking it back to front.

That look is absolutely sublime. Goes right to my cock.

Sometimes I'll use that to start something with her. We don't have any hard and fast rules, because she's the type that keeps her eyes down. Some times I like to catch her eye and make her look. There's this look that you give a girl; the one that says "look away, I dare you!" She's damned if she looks away and damned if she doesn't. Then the fun begins. Usually in the form of a military style take down and psuedo rape.

 

[MissTaken]

It's appropriate to me in a formal protocol of waiting or attendance, but not as a way to live a life moment by moment.

What she said!

 

[sunfox]

Excellent post as always by the osg which reminds me of something that women don't really understand; which is the highly volatile nature of eye-contact amongst men who strive for dominance. One second too long a look can start the chain of events that lead to a fight, as any man knows: something to consider while pondering this issue.

You must know the wrong women.. I've always been perfectly aware of the way men use eye contact to intimidate or instigate violence. Just like my male dog does to encroaching males on our farm.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

This topic instantly brought to mind that cheesy chatroom standby:

*avert your eyes!!!*

ROFLMFAO!

JM and I get a laugh out of that one every time.

Ours is a relationship of eye contact, and for me to *avert my eyes* means that I've fucked up, more often than not. I have trouble looking at him when I'm being lectured, and if he's decided to ignore me, I know better than to keep staring at him, waiting for some sign that he's going to pay attention to me.

Yep. Hate both of those things. I usually find a spot on the floor or the wall and just stare.

I find it interesting, however, that it's just a reflex, rather than something he orders. He would never say "slut, AVERT your EYES!" *snickering*

I just do it, because when I've done something wrong, and I'm being punished, I can't bear to look at him, and see the disappointment in his eyes. That pretty much sums it up.

~anelize

 

[TigerClaw]

am i the only one who finds it a turn off?

Timing is everything. It depends on when it is said. I usaully want her looking up at me. I want to see her eyes. They express so much in terms of what is going on inside her.

I can see some definite times where she should not look up though. The most submissive poses, definitely.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

<snippage>I just do it, because when I've done something wrong, and I'm being punished, I can't bear to look at him, and see the disappointment in his eyes. That pretty much sums it up.

~anelize

Ahh, but seeing the disappointment in my eyes is a key component of the discipline/punishment...

 

[sincerely_helene]

Ahh, but seeing the disappointment in my eyes is a key component of the discipline/punishment...

 

[catalina_francisco]

You must know the wrong women.. I've always been perfectly aware of the way men use eye contact to intimidate or instigate violence. Just like my male dog does to encroaching males on our farm.

Have to agree with you....for some of us it is instinctual, not something we need to learn by instruction.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

This topic instantly brought to mind that cheesy chatroom standby:

*avert your eyes!!!*

ROFLMFAO!

JM and I get a laugh out of that one every time.

Ours is a relationship of eye contact, and for me to *avert my eyes* means that I've fucked up, more often than not. I have trouble looking at him when I'm being lectured, and if he's decided to ignore me, I know better than to keep staring at him, waiting for some sign that he's going to pay attention to me.

Yep. Hate both of those things. I usually find a spot on the floor or the wall and just stare.

I find it interesting, however, that it's just a reflex, rather than something he orders. He would never say "slut, AVERT your EYES!" *snickering*

I just do it, because when I've done something wrong, and I'm being punished, I can't bear to look at him, and see the disappointment in his eyes. That pretty much sums it up.

~anelize

Once again it seems we share like feelings. ...though at those moments it can be torture to not be allowed to escape his eyes.

Catalina

 

[sunfox]

Have to agree with you....for some of us it is instinctual, not something we need to learn by instruction.

Catalina

Men really aren't as much of a mystery as they like to think they are.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Its always nerve-wracking when he tells me to. I'm not sure whether its the act of looking up into his eyes, or what I see there when I do?

 

[rosco rathbone]

You must know the wrong women.. I've always been perfectly aware of the way men use eye contact to intimidate or instigate violence. Just like my male dog does to encroaching males on our farm.

The difference between "don't understand" (an absolute) and "don't really understand" (a relative); is that women aren't as directly involved in the type of animal monkey struggles I am talking about---male macho variety. Of course, women have all kinds of internecine struggles of their own; and all is fraught with grey area.

 

[sunfox]

The difference between "don't understand" (an absolute) and "don't really understand" (a relative); is that women aren't as directly involved in the type of animal monkey struggles I am talking about---male macho variety. Of course, women have all kinds of internecine struggles of their own; and all is fraught with grey area.

Actually, if you check, you'll find that the majority of animal power struggles occur between females of the species.. males fight generally only over the right to breed females... whereas females fight over power, status, food, so on.

In a herd of horses, it is the mares who actually fight the worst and the most constantly, jockeying for position.. and mares will use eye contact to control those below them in rank. Eye contact often starts or escalates fights among them as well.

Female dogs.. same way.

Lionesses. Do I need to say it? Eh, I will anyways... same thing.

Females have their own macho.. just because we're women doesn't mean we don't really understand.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Pffft

i know for a fact if i ever stared at any of you, you would avert your eyes, and i'd never have to utter a word.

If you don't believe me, match wits with a photograph and see if you don't have the same problem ... Click me.

 

[graceanne]

Well, with the exception of K I'm uncomfortable in r/l around most men. I won't sit by them, and I only talk to them if I need to. But frankly a lot of that is abuse issues. I've been told my entire life, from as early as I can remember, that all men are assholes, and only want to use women.

With K, if I didn't look him in the eye, first off he'd think I did something I was ashamed of. But he'd also be just weirded out. LOL He'd want to know who I was and what I did with his wife.

 

[snowy ciara]

Re: Pffft

i know for a fact if i ever stared at any of you, you would avert your eyes, and i'd never have to utter a word.

If you don't believe me, match wits with a photograph and see if you don't have the same problem ... Click me.

giggling madly Nice Pic, AA.

But you're right, 'cept that it's not just you, in my case. I hate looking people in the face. Men bug me worse than women, with a few notable exceptions.

edited for extreme typo-ness. Hope I got them all...

 

[sunfox]

Re: Pffft

i know for a fact if i ever stared at any of you, you would avert your eyes, and i'd never have to utter a word.

If you don't believe me, match wits with a photograph and see if you don't have the same problem ... Click me.

I'd be willing to bet that I wouldn't avert my eyes

I'm a rather dominant personality, despite being submissive to C. and while I submit to him, that doesn't translate in any way to anyone else.

I don't know if that's the exception rather than the norm, but it seems I may be in the minority, since I see a large number of the subby sorts saying that you don't like eye contact with men anyway.

Edited to add: What big eyes you have, AA!

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Re: Pffft

I'd be willing to bet that I wouldn't avert my eyes

I'm a rather dominant personality, despite being submissive to C. and while I submit to him, that doesn't translate in any way to anyone else.

I don't know if that's the exception rather than the norm, but it seems I may be in the minority, since I see a large number of the subby sorts saying that you don't like eye contact with men anyway.

Edited to add: What big eyes you have, AA!

What she said.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: Pffft

What she said.

And yet another one who does not feel the need or desire to submit to anyone other than the one who owns me, nor avert my gaze just because someone identifies themselves as Dominant.

Catalina

 

[snowy ciara]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Pffft

And yet another one who does not feel the need or desire to submit to anyone other than the one who owns me, nor avert my gaze just because someone identifies themselves as Dominant.

Catalina

I'm not speaking for the other ladies who commented, but it's not just "Dom/mly" PYL's in my case. I have a problem with eye contact with strangers of either gender. I get flustered at the grocery store when I have to ask for help at the customer service counter. The thing is, I used to be pathologically shy, offline. It's not so bad now, but there were times when I really used to act like a hermit in training. I'm a lot less inhibited here, and part of it is that we're not face to face. I can ask tough questions and tease and flirt and all that jazz. Offline, it's just not that easy for me.

I would like to be more confident offline. I would like to be able to look someone in the eyes and not feel like I'm being intrusive, living with my skin off, or telegraphing my emotions. That's the big thing. You can read so much in a person's face/eyes. I don't want to strangers to know me that well.

Another reason it bothers me. Direct eye contact also can challenge someone (as a few have mentioned above.) I kind of feel that the human animal in general is not so far removed from it's past to avoid this. Catching and holding someone's glance for a long time does trigger a "flight or fight" response on a visceral level. When you throw in sexual response, you get an even messier primordial ooze of emotion. I'm not saying this happens all the time, or that it is this obvious. It depends on your state of mind, and most of this is happening on a subconscious level: which means that, most of the time, people don't even realise it's happening.

 

[snowy ciara]

Re: Re: Pffft

double post.. sorry

 

[rosco rathbone]

Actually, if you check, you'll find that the majority of animal power struggles occur between females of the species.. males fight generally only over the right to breed females... whereas females fight over power, status, food, so on.

In a herd of horses, it is the mares who actually fight the worst and the most constantly, jockeying for position.. and mares will use eye contact to control those below them in rank. Eye contact often starts or escalates fights among them as well.

Female dogs.. same way.

Lionesses. Do I need to say it? Eh, I will anyways... same thing.

Females have their own macho.. just because we're women doesn't mean we don't really understand.

Human females, babe. Not lionesses and such.

re humans, check the disclaimer at the end.

Women have their own troubles that we as men can barely understand. They don't tend to lead to bar fights, though.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Human females, babe. Not lionesses and such.

re humans, check the disclaimer at the end.

Women have their own troubles that we as men can barely understand. They don't tend to lead to bar fights, though.

ya sure about that? heh.

 

[graceanne]

I don't necessarily think of avoiding eye contact as necessarily a submissive trait. I can think of a few friends I've had who were just shy, but not submissive.

Also, I don't avoid eye contact in just men who call themselves dominant. Frankly, for one thing, just cause someone calls themselves something doesn't mean they actually are. Second, I have a dom, and if another man gets pushy, I'm quite capable of backing him off.

Also, oddly enough, I don't have trouble making eye conact with men if they work where I am, like at the custumer service desk. It's just in social situations like church. And if I feel that someone is trying to bully me, I'll make eye contact, because as much as eye contact can start a fight, in the case of a bully, it'll quite often back them off. They know that you aren't going to take any shit.

Also, if I'm in a not so safe situation, like walking home in the middle of the night down a busy street, I keep my head up. I don't make eye contact, but I look at everyone's face. This is for two reasons, (1) so no one knows how tired and nervous I am. But it's also so that in worse case scenerio, if something happens, I can identify whoever did whatever. I've read that rapists/muggers/robbers/etc look for a person who is looking at the ground, shuffling along. They look like victims.