To the Critics....

[Kundalinguini]

Bill, Bill, Bill... I've thought there were many worthwhile moments in much of your other poetry, but I'm afraid you've lost me with this tiger analogy.

    Tiger tiger burning bright
    In the forest of the night,

Burning? Tiger? I'm sorry, Bill, but perhaps this needs a little work. And while you're at it, you might fix the next rhyme, too.

    What immortal hand or eye
    Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

 

Criticism will always be an iffy thing. Implicit in it is the belief by the critic that he or she is qualified to judge the poet. In questions of pure form this may be true. "Your pentameter in line three has only four beats." But in terms of content or expression, poetry can be so subjective that the critic should be cautious. I'm reminded of a prof I once had, who would frame a question such that it asked your opinion, then write a note in the margin, "While I appreciate that you have an opinion on this issue, your opinion is wrong."

BTW... for what it's worth, I'm a critic by nature. Sometimes I have to handcuff myself to the mast to prevent myself from jumping in with both feet in my mouth.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Y

"Oh, so it speak?"

The smiley face that giveth it away...grin!

 

[mismused]

I appreciate your comment

Mismused, I left you a comment on your poem in order to test my memory. A vote is not required to leave a comment. "Thermometer" votes do not affect your tally and are present for a visual rate on the poster's, not the poem.

============================

But I fail to see how snobbery can be complimentary. The thermometer had/has not bearing on what I have said, and I still stand by it.

Logic isn't the end all of everything, and indeed only works in certain areas. Unfortunately, this is one of them.

A 2 vote is below the median. "A very enjoyable read" (if I remember the quote properly), is at the median at the very least.

Not making fun of you in the least, but how is it that YDD uses microsoft in his/her construtive critiscism (if that's what it's intended to be. I find both Goddess and font in my dictionary, and also in my heart, and in my practice.

Am I to think, also, by extrapolation, further consideration, by extension, or whatever, that we are to write poetry from "microsoft?" I think not.

This person does not know me. This person thus cannot have been playing with me playfully on a personal basis. This person has their head . . . Well, not in being helpful, that's for sure.

Whether this is the same person in both instances, well, again, who knows.

There is a tendency to gather around a comrade, though. I wonder if that's where you're coming from. If so, that's commendable, though possibly ill advised in light of the "logic" that is applicable here, and used.

Would you believe I never intended for any of this to happen? I only wanted my writings to find an audience, but not for the purpose of someone's too self-centered ego.

Still, as I said, I do think your comment was not intended badly at all, and for that, I thank you. Your intentions are good. That counts for much, but still, there is logic here that cannot be ignored. You do so at your own risk. Hang around a skunk, and sooner or later you'll get the odor.

m

 

[mismused]

Re: Smiles~

Someone else did their homework too~

mismused ~

Bows Humble to you...grin

and Thank you...


I feel blessed at least the smokescreen
named individual gave me a 3 on one of
my better poems...also this shadow critic
come about at the same time the trolls
went rampant during the Earth Day contest
can't tie that together but the stink of the
whole thing all started at that time mid-april

I don't frequent poetry forum much so many
don't know me here I stay in the AH and my
other threads. I have my own playground
in the poetry forum...chasin' chickens where I
write my poems. Why has the TIGER come into
the circle? Because my research of this
shadow critic points this way in my hunting
of the truth of his intent and why he chooses
down vote others...my findings is his other
identity is well filled with his prides works
and his critic may come under fire and his
votes are sacred to him..as many. This
allows him the advantage of bringing others
down to bring his up. sorry but the sword of
truth may cut.

any way headed to work .....

Thank you again mismused~
very well put...hug...smiles..purring now

===========================

MET,

I hope we're wrong on this person being so active in both realms. Still, it's kind of smelly with a cooincidence that may be too great. Only s/he can say, if s/he's believeable. On this site, in spite of one (so far) coming to his/her aide, the logic is damning.

Thanks,
m

 

[mismused]

Re: Poems and stories over a 4.5

Hey guy's got called to work last night and didn't get home till about midnight. LOL guess I should have check in then.

Mismused, you'll find that a story or poem tends to "Tank" when it get's over 10 votes and is rated above a 4.5. I've never really thought this was anything personal. It happens to everybody. I'll paraphrase oggsban from another thread. At one point he had submitted a story. It received its 10 votes, all of which were a 5. This story stayed at the top for several hours, and then the reads began to pick up and his story sank to a 4.3

This is actually something we all get. I've had it happen as well lol although I think my one staory was on a toplist for about 20 minutes and one vote doomed it to obscurity ;-]

In order for something to stay on the top list it has to be truly incredible.

==========================

JK,

Thank you, but I realize that already. What I have noticed is that the 1's come suddenly, or even a 2. That's not just something that happened.

I'm not the most credible witness to how "great" my stories are, but I do know that for this site (compared to the really high brow literary writings), my work is excellent.

Yes, I can see an occasional three. Some of my Yesterday Stealing Tomorrow chapters, on reading them after being posted, had spots in them that I wish I had caught. Even at that, to a discerning reader, they have to be accorded a 4 vote at least. Still, a three is not out of the question.

What is out of the question is a 1 or 2 vote that seemed to come at just so times. Yes, I've timed some of them.

Vignette, my newest story, is quite excellent, and that is not just my judgement. I invite you to read Vignette, unless you don't like lesbian stories, and judge for yourself, if you haven't already. BTW, even if you don't like lesbian stories, it is a bit different than the norm.

Yes, in how you meant it, you're right. In how I've seen it, I know I'm right. Wish I could say otherwise, but I've followed them too closely, especially this last time.

m

 

[mismused]

Ref: Your post.

Mismused-

With regard to your first question, as thenry said, the F.A.Q. isn't worded correctly. Yes, If you have voted on the submission previously, then the vote you leave with the comment will not count toward the submission's total. But, if you haven't voted, the thermometer rating will still NOT count toward the submission's total. They are two completely independent systems. The thermometer is only a visual aid to your comment, nothing else.

If you can't read But I can't find the "Goddess font" in my word processor program. Bill Gate's must be a monotheist" merely as a humorous line, I don't know what else to tell you.


As for your second question, I hate to break it to you, but happens to everyone the second you get your tenth vote and land on the top list. Anyone in the top list could have done it, any of their friends, and any one of thousands of readers who may not have liked your story - it happens - or even if they liked it, not liked it enough to agree with it being top of the list. Sorry...

=========================

Lauren,

Thank you for your comment. However, I repeat: I never mentioned the thermometer. Only the scores, their averages, and the comments.

I don't know if the FAQ is worded properly or not, only Laurel can say, but it does seem to say that if you comment, you have to have voted. Is that true?

If so, then my questions, and my logic stand.

In the submicrospic world, logic doesn't function as well as in our "normal" macroscopic existence. This is in the "normal" realm we all experience, so logic is quite correct in just about all cases, especially in this one. Am I wrong on that?

On the second question, it is an ongoing thing that it has happened in my 22 first submissions, but, thankfully, not always just after the tenth vote.

Whether my story, Yesterday Stealing Tomorrow, is worthy enough to stand alone at the top, is something that is not for me to say. It is for me to know that it is a good story, chapter-by-chapter, to not be accorded a 1 or 2 vote. The mentioned chapter (9) was in the top spot for quite a while, and they goofed. Goodness, how blind can they be sometime? It was on the 42nd vote that it got hammered with a 1.

Sorry, it happened too often. Rate me a 4 if you must, that's fine, as long as that's really what's there in you to do. But don't rate me a 1 or 2 over 22 stories at "propitious" times for someone else, or a despicable heart.

Please, people, don't think to placate me, and tell me that "it happens to all of us." That's not the issue. Constant chicanery is the issue. Mean spiritedness is the issue.

As far as a humorous line, when the logic is applied, if applicable, then it is not humorous at all. A 2 vote will not be mitigated by so called humor when it stands aside "a very enjoyable read," or close to that in comment.

However, you are always known as a knowledgeable person, and for that, I appreciate your thoughts. For you also, have you read any of my works? If you haven't, I invite you to read Vignette, and tell me if by any standards, it deserves a 1 vote. I am confident that you will see that a 4 vote is okay, but a 5 vote is very warranted.

Not bragging, simply confident in the knowledge of my work in Vignette, comparatively speaking, that is (not a literary work of great and lasting note).

m

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Re: Ref: Your post.

Is that true?

No.

 

[mismused]

Re: Re: Ref: Your post.

No.

============================

Lauren,

You say no, and you are very well known for your good mind, as well as respected, so I hope you will not mind my asking this:

Can you cite the reason for your answer since it is contrary to what is posted for all to go by? I'm truly seeking here, and am not trying to find a way to discredit you, but I think you probably know that from the way I write.

TIA,

m

 

[champagne1982]

Who on Earth are you people?

I don't need you to explain.
I don't want to justify
Every petty little slight
You think has detracted from
Your great wisdom and skill.

If an actor acts and tells his audience,
"Look at me! I act, therefore I am a star!"
What has that actor done to earn my applause?

If an athlete runs and tells the judges,
"Look at me! I race, therefore I am a winner!"
What has that athlete done to earn my lauding?

Thus if a poet writes and tells the reader,
"Look at me! I compose, therefore I am a laureate!"
What has that poet done to earn my praise?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

No need to justify the question. What is posted in the F.A.Q. is:

You must give a rating* to the story to leave a comment. If you have voted on the submission previously, then the vote you leave with the comment will not count toward the submission's total.

*This 'rating' refers to the thermometer. You don't have to vote using the classic system to leave a comment.

If you have voted previously, the rating in the comment won't count toward the submission's total. This much is true. There is no wrong information there.

What is missing in the F.A.Q. is if you haven't voted previously, the rating in the comment still won't count toward the submission's total. The two systems are completely independent. They don't feed off each other.

I can tell you this not only by the accounts of numerous people, or even by having registered no change in submissions' rating after several comments, but simply by verifying that there are more comments than votes in some of my submissions...



I need to leave in a few minutes, but there's a PM to follow.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

comments and voting~

mismused asked:
I don't know if the FAQ is worded properly or not, only Laurel can say, but it does seem to say that if you comment, you have to have voted. Is that true?

NO

I comment on some that I don't vote on....
as an example today echos has a poem
for YDD I did not vote but I left a comment
If I cannot leave a 5 or at least a 4 I don't
vote cause I know it brings a rating down
and why should I do that when no vote
is better than a bad vote....smiles

hope that helped...

 

[echoes_s]

Re: comments and voting~

mismused asked:
I don't know if the FAQ is worded properly or not, only Laurel can say, but it does seem to say that if you comment, you have to have voted. Is that true?

NO

I comment on some that I don't vote on....
as an example today echos has a poem
for YDD I did not vote but I left a comment
If I cannot leave a 5 or at least a 4 I don't
vote cause I know it brings a rating down
and why should I do that when no vote
is better than a bad vote....smiles

hope that helped...

waiting
by echoes_s ©

Raw
emotional
honest
true voice
blends with music
singing Ice Cream
that trembles
so low

I scream - You scream
04/27/04 by YDD
My favorite phrase is "singing Ice Cream".
It wants its own poem. - Please write it.

hehe, MET, that was his response to one of my so so poems...so of course I must rise to the challenge, teasing him



...of course Syn also asked me to write one about a cowgirl, hrmmm...this is still pending, bordering guideline rules me thinks

 

[WickedEve]

Mismused, what Lauren said is accurate. If someone doesn't raise the mercury in your thermometer all the way up, then don't sweat it. It won't effect your score.
Besides, voting here at lit doesn't mean much. We've had threads on that topic in the past, and I'm sure we will again. sigh.

 

[WickedEve]

By the way, someone 1'd my new poem! I bet is was a freakin' groupie!!!

 

[echoes_s]

By the way, someone 1'd my new poem! I bet is was a freakin' groupie!!!

but but...aren't groupies supposed to love ya?

 

[My Erotic Tail]

ouch

wasn't me I like puppies...
and dogs too...(wicked grin)

thank you for the constructive critic
on my steppin' on toe's hehehe

That did seem much better...My fault
is spilling it out and walking away...
its how I felt at the time and playing
with it bores me so I use editors who
know what their doing such as lady*

thanks again steppin and stompin
on groupie toes...heeek not ovals!!
hehehehehehehe

 

[mismused]

champagne

Who on Earth are you people?

I don't need you to explain.
I don't want to justify
Every petty little slight
You think has detracted from
Your great wisdom and skill.

If an actor acts and tells his audience,
"Look at me! I act, therefore I am a star!"
What has that actor done to earn my applause?

If an athlete runs and tells the judges,
"Look at me! I race, therefore I am a winner!"
What has that athlete done to earn my lauding?

Thus if a poet writes and tells the reader,
"Look at me! I compose, therefore I am a laureate!"
What has that poet done to earn my praise?

==========================

champagne,

Thank you for your post. Since it is on this thread, and most likely directed at me, I assume (possibly incorrectly), that you are speaking of me.

I have not asked any to give me praise, nor have I said that I am a "laureate."

I have said that the actual vote, a 2, was not in keeping with the comments that were afforded, something like: "a very enjoyable read."

An enjoyable read is at the very least median, wouldn't you think?

As far as any of my other work (which also got a similar vote at about the same time), I have not asked you to say that I am great either. nor am I asking you to look at any "petty" slight.

If I trash your work, and you knew it, and did so publicly, or each time you wrote something worthy (though not necessarily literary), you would take offense too. It's the human way.

Now, you may look at my work, or you may not. That is your choice, loss, or gain, who can say. It is not great, but I guarantee that it is not trash.

Please, you say that one shouldn't expect ordinary conversations from you. If you truly wish to say something salient here, do so, but not in generalities. However, do as you wish.

Still, I'm getting the sense here that this mysterious YDD is well known to some, if not the many. If so, well, you be the judge. I hope my sensing is wrong, what with the way the wagons have been cirled against this one indian.

I do thank you for your words though. You do have a wonderful mind, and I applaud it.

m

 

[mismused]

Thank you, Eve

Mismused, what Lauren said is accurate. If someone doesn't raise the mercury in your thermometer all the way up, then don't sweat it. It won't effect your score.
Besides, voting here at lit doesn't mean much. We've had threads on that topic in the past, and I'm sure we will again. sigh.

===========================

Eve,

Just making sure to answer everyone. The thermometer gig doesn't bother me in the least. It's the actual vote (from 1 to 5), and the coinciding comment that was attached to that vote, or so I thought I understood it.

If YDD voted a 2, as I suspicioned he did, then it does not correlate to the comment. "a very enjoyable read," is not commensurate with a 2 vote. 3, yes, if you so wish to see it that way.

I still find it sad that YDD has not come forth to say anything in his/her behalf. That in itself is not damning, however, it does leave a sour taste.

Also, I repeat, it seems that so many others have come to the defense of YDD, so I have to wonder if many know this nebulous person. I Know his/her possible loss was mentioned here once as being a great loss, or words ot that effect.

Why??? Is it relative to the way many have defended this without his/her presence?

m

 

[WickedEve]

but but...aren't groupies supposed to love ya?

No. Not one of my groupies. Someone else's groupie. An evil groupie!

 

[My Erotic Tail]

mismused

here are the facts on the shadow critic

He does not post on threads...leaves no
trail...under YDD...he has however a second
identity or should I say YDD is his cloak...

male he asked and was polite to me till he
found out I had a third leg which he then
began scorning my work...

He began his reign in mid march and had
one poem which I found to be confussing
of course most of the great stuff is that way
to me....it spoke of the red woods of the
west coast but his bio says michigan...
which I doubt...

his comment to me when I asked what was
YDD he said....Y Ding Dang !!!

every one in the poet section only knows
him by his comments..no one befriends him
I have done my homework and found
similarities to two litites that are well know..
and very competitive in contests and ratings
wanting the glory of monthly statis...

he has been on a quest or competition with
jim to be the feedback portals leader in
comments..???? if you want to hide...
be the opposite..hence my poem
YDD is a ying yang...smiles....

his critic or advice has been simplicity
he is not a scholor such literature
but a want a be by his miss advice
on several comments he has put his
neck in the noose and not a very good
critic in the sense he doesn't go about
it properly showing his mentality...

the reast I'm keeping while I'm hunting..
smiles...which is why I'm here ..his stomping
grounds...want to catch a shadow..look
in the corners...but perhaps he is in
the light which is why he lurks with a
smoke screen name...he is here...

sniff sniff I can smell him...hehehe

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Thank you, Eve

===========================

Eve,

Just making sure to answer everyone. The thermometer gig doesn't bother me in the least. It's the actual vote (from 1 to 5), and the coinciding comment that was attached to that vote, or so I thought I understood it.

If YDD voted a 2, as I suspicioned he did, then it does not correlate to the comment. "a very enjoyable read," is not commensurate with a 2 vote. 3, yes, if you so wish to see it that way.

I still find it sad that YDD has not come forth to say anything in his/her behalf. That in itself is not damning, however, it does leave a sour taste.

Also, I repeat, it seems that so many others have come to the defense of YDD, so I have to wonder if many know this nebulous person. I Know his/her possible loss was mentioned here once as being a great loss, or words ot that effect.

Why??? Is it relative to the way many have defended this without his/her presence?

m

You know, I leave comments and forget to vote. I swear I do. I'm so damn bad. So, if you see a comment me from and a low score, then the vote may not be from me! I rarely give anyone less than a 3. If I don't like the poem, I just don't vote on it!
I think YDD is smart to ignore all this! lol

 

[WickedEve]

Re: mismused

here are the facts on the shadow critic

male he asked and was polite to me till he
found out I had a third leg which he then
began scorning my work...

How did you get a third leg? I had an Uncle Henry with a third nipple. And my cousin has an extra toe.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Wicked very wicked...hehehe

That wicked Eve..lol

I was and still get PMs from men...
the shadow even...that asks...
well questions you would ask if
you were trying to pick up a girl
of sexual nature...I say dude I'm a dude..

One replied...well you can't have an erotic
tail then if your a guy....my reply...

yours may not be long enough...they
classify mine a tail...or a third leg....
never heard from him again either...

honesty being my nature...I wish it
was tail long..hehehehehehe

but I can claim....My EROTIC tail...smiles

 

[mismused]

Re: Re: Thank you, Eve

You know, I leave comments and forget to vote. I swear I do. I'm so damn bad. So, if you see a comment me from and a low score, then the vote may not be from me! I rarely give anyone less than a 3. If I don't like the poem, I just don't vote on it!
I think YDD is smart to ignore all this! lol

============================

Eve,

Thank you. I have sent a PM to Laurel for a clarification.

As to YDD being smart to ignore all of this, you will forgive me for having a divergent opinion, I'm sure.

However, I'm also sure that this thread is dying of a natural death with YDD's reluctance to answer.

m

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Y Ding Dang~

I've been zapped...

My poems got hit by the troll~

There's no way in hell some body could
find both those poems a (1) my god...
wait...Budda enlighten me...hehehehe

well there should be a way that if you vote
you comment and your vote be next to your
name and comment and I bet then less (1's)
will be handed out and truer critic be said...

OUCH...wait votes don't bother me what are
they for any way .??..my poems are good
and I know it...smiles again...