Two! Four! Six! Eight! JaySecrets Prevaricates!

[Fuzzy1975]

Yet the science and math used to make them came from Christians who expressedly credited the Bible for the basis of their mathematic and scientific understanding and discoveries. Some of them actually have some profoundly beautiful theological writings.

Serious question, what grade did you mange to pass, prior to dropping out of High School?

 

[ll74]

You are taking the unproven, unprovable claims of men by faith but you.... You really are blind.

I'm not.

And history has proven the Bible correct over and over again.

No it hasn't. Over time, the majority has been ignored because it's outdated. That's why you aren't stoned for wearing artificial fiber.

Anything you place as your highest authority and guide is your god.

That's not how it works. I rely on repeatable, observable science

List your repeatable observations of one kind of creature changing into another kind. In fact, list just one.

Gravity is a repeatable scientific theory that is accepted.

Countless atheists have become Christians when the put that claim to a honest, scientific test. Care to try for yourself? I can give you some great start points.

Countless Christians have become atheists when they realize belief isn't science.

So list one observable piece of evidence of one kind of animal changing into another kind of animal

E coli evolution -> https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/02/evolution-in-real-time/

And evolution is a theory supported by blind claims of men and circular reasoning.

It's a theory supported by fossil records and geology

 

[ll74]

Well, I guess you are smarter than Isaac Newton.

Lol.. of course. This discussion is about us comparing how smart we are.

Dipshit

There being scientists that believe in your religion doesn't prove that your religion is superior or the ultimate authority.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

No, I am saying that the Bible uses poetic, normal idioms that normal people use. I am also saying that, when describe from a perspective not on the earth, the earth is described in both poetic beauty and scientific accuracy as a globe. And both can indeed be true.

Ok, so just to clarify you’re now saying that people 2000 years ago I’m the Middle East used English idioms?

 

[JaySecrets]

Then prove me wrong. Don't claim it. When I prove you wrong I ALWAYS have a citation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Scroll

 

[JaySecrets]

Then prove me wrong. Don't claim it. When I prove you wrong I ALWAYS have a citation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isa...ritten in,known before the scrolls' discovery.

 

[JaySecrets]

Then prove me wrong. Don't claim it. When I prove you wrong I ALWAYS have a citation.

 

[JaySecrets]

Serious question, what grade did you mange to pass, prior to dropping out of High School?

Actually some college, was reading on a college level in by Jr. High, and writing on a college level by High School. But my education level isn't what is in question. The wisest and smartest men I know barely passed high school. Some only got past 8th grade. The most educated idiots I know graduated from "elite" universities where all their common sense had been brainwashed out of them. Degrees don't make a person worth listening to. Truth does. Absolute, unmoving, unwavering, unchanging Truth that is above the opinions or redefining of man.

 

[JaySecrets]

I'm not.

There are none so blind as they who will not see.

No it hasn't. Over time, the majority has been ignored because it's outdated. That's why you aren't stoned for wearing artificial fiber.

For mixing fabrics they were not stoned. They were cut off from their people. They lost their inheritance because it was a physical representation of the separation from the pagan society around them that they were to maintain. God was keeping His chosen people pure, because they were the line through which Messiah, Jesus, was to come. And THAT, that last sentence, was the whole point of the passage anyway. The whole point of all Scripture.

As for times history and archeology has proven the Bible right...

That's not how it works. I rely on repeatable, observable science

So what repeatable, observable example can you give for one animal changing into another kind of animal?

Gravity is a repeatable scientific theory that is accepted.

And the guy who discovered it gave the credit for the science to God. Go figure.

Countless Christians have become atheists when they realize belief isn't science.


E coli evolution -> https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/02/evolution-in-real-time/

After the mutation, it was still... Bacteria. It was not another KIND. Your theories demand, not adaptation within a kind, but a change from one kind to another. So give me one observed example.

It's a theory supported by fossil records and geology

The fossil record would not have trees upside down through multiple layers at multiple stages of fossilization if that were true. Yet it does. Try again.

 

[JaySecrets]

Ok, so just to clarify you’re now saying that people 2000 years ago I’m the Middle East used English idioms?

I'm saying they used idioms similar to, and therefore that translate well, to what we use in English. Because they were humans. Living on the same planet. Observing the same things that give us our idioms. Stop being obtuse.

 

[JaySecrets]

It's a theory supported by fossil records and geology

https://www.evolutionisamyth.com/da...cut-through-millions-of-years-of-rock-layers/

 

[JaySecrets]

Lol.. of course. This discussion is about us comparing how smart we are.

Dipshit

There being scientists that believe in your religion doesn't prove that your religion is superior or the ultimate authority.

You are right. But when over and over the very founding scientists for the modern scientific method make it clear that it could only work in a universe of order designed by a Creator who ordered it and maintains it, that scientific laws only work if there is a Lawgiver, then the very authority on which any science is based is founded on a Theistic worldview, and in most cases a Christian one.

 

[JaySecrets]

Lol.. of course. This discussion is about us comparing how smart we are.

Dipshit

There being scientists that believe in your religion doesn't prove that your religion is superior or the ultimate authority.

Early scientists were often deeply religious and had formal theological training because the church controlled higher learning institutions. The term "scientist" wasn't coined until the 19th century, and earlier contributions were called "natural philosophy". In the 17th and 18th centuries, natural philosophy and natural theology were closely linked, and the work of some scientists, like Johannes Kepler and Isaac Newton, has been called "physico-theology".

Throughout history, many scientists, philosophers, and theologians have seen a compatibility or interdependence between science and religion. For example, some scientists and theologians see no conflict between their faith and the evidence for evolution. Others, like biologist Stephen Jay Gould, consider religion and science to be "non-overlapping magisteria" that address different forms of knowledge and aspects of life. Still others, like John Lennox, Thomas Berry, and Brian Swimme, believe that science and religion are interconnected, while Ian Barbour believes they are even parallel.

PBS

https://biologos.org/articles/a-very-brief-history-of-christians-in-science

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I'm saying they used idioms similar to, and therefore that translate well, to what we use in English. Because they were humans. Living on the same planet. Observing the same things that give us our idioms. Stop being obtuse.

I’m not being obtuse. I just know that idioms are and can be very specific to a language and change greatly over time. So it’s nearly impossible that people 2000 years ago who spoke a different language would use similar idioms.

Do you have a cite to all the idioms used in the Bible so we would know when someone was telling us what God wanted to know and when a humor author was just injecting their own idiom?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Scroll

From your wiki page, "who dated the manuscript of Isaiah at around 100 BCE"

Note: Aristotle is documented as 300 years BCE.

The book of Job was written anywhere from 700 BC to 300 BC, Isaiah is around 700 BC, but there is conjecture that some of the later charterers were written much later.

Is 700 BC earlier or later than 100 BC (note Before Common Era "BCE" and Before Christ "BC" are about the same timelines in pre history)

The Dead Sea Scrolls destroy that conjecture

AS I said the book of Isaiah later passages are much younger than the rest of the text.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Scroll

"who dated the manuscript of Isaiah at around 100 BCE"

From your wiki page, "who dated the manuscript of Isaiah at around 100 BCE"

Note: Aristotle is documented as 300 years BCE.


Is 700 BC earlier or later than 100 BC (note Before Common Era "BCE" and Before Christ "BC" are about the same timelines in pre history)

AS I said the book of Isaiah later passages are much younger than the rest of the text.

See above it applies here equally as well.

 

[ll74]

There are none so blind as they who will not see.

For mixing fabrics they were not stoned. They were cut off from their people. They lost their inheritance because it was a physical representation of the separation from the pagan society around them that they were to maintain. God was keeping His chosen people pure, because they were the line through which Messiah, Jesus, was to come. And THAT, that last sentence, was the whole point of the passage anyway. The whole point of all Scripture.

As for times history and archeology has proven the Bible right...

So what repeatable, observable example can you give for one animal changing into another kind of animal?

And the guy who discovered it gave the credit for the science to God. Go figure.

After the mutation, it was still... Bacteria. It was not another KIND. Your theories demand, not adaptation within a kind, but a change from one kind to another. So give me one observed example.

The fossil record would not have trees upside down through multiple layers at multiple stages of fossilization if that were true. Yet it does. Try again.

Your religion is not mine. Your god is not mine. Your laws are not mine.

All of the science that I know can be repeated. I don't need to read your book or interpret your text to understand it. I don't need to say that a god was the reason because I know and have seen what the reason is.

New scientific discovery doesn't need a new interpretation of your book to explain why it's there

And evolution, while such a mystery to you, exists in fossil records, geology and observstion, such as the new species of bacteria, which you can't seem to grasp.

Poor soul - your entire state of being would implode if you found out that your god wasn't there for you at your death. Or that heaven does not exist for your loved ones or that hell does not exist for your enemies.

 

[ll74]

You are right. But when over and over the very founding scientists for the modern scientific method make it clear that it could only work in a universe of order designed by a Creator who ordered it and maintains it, that scientific laws only work if there is a Lawgiver, then the very authority on which any science is based is founded on a Theistic worldview, and in most cases a Christian one.

There's a small number of mathematicians and scientists who are religious.

Your god didn't give them anything to discover things....they simply repeated experiments and observed the results. And zero real scientists believe the earth is only tens of thousands of years old.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Actually some college, was reading on a college level in by Jr. High, and writing on a college level by High School. But my education level isn't what is in question.

Actually it is, and you might notice that most who disagree with your view point hold Degree's or even higher levels of post secondary school. There's a reason for this.

The wisest and smartest men I know barely passed high school. Some only got past 8th grade. The most educated idiots I know graduated from "elite" universities where all their common sense had been brainwashed out of them.

Actually what happened is they learned to learn for themselves and no longer need someone to tell them the meaning....

Degrees don't make a person worth listening to. Truth does.

Yes I agree, the problem we have here is you are trying to pass off "Faith" as truth.

Absolute, unmoving, unwavering, unchanging Truth that is above the opinions or redefining of man.

You seem to have a problem between truth and "Faith". So where do Mosquitoes go when they die? To heaven, to hell? They are one of "Gods" creatures. Do they now lie down with the lion and the lamb? That would seem kind of pointless since they only take blood to feed their offspring,then die. The cycle repeats endlessly. ( Unless we Humans fuck up the environment too much)

If God created the Heavens and the Earth, then why all the rest. Why Planets and Nebula's and Galaxies? Did God create the Universe for Billions of Carbon based lifeforms, and Humans are just one group out of Billions? Where is Heaven or for that matter where is Hell?

Show me where in the Bible any of this is "explained"?

 

[JaySecrets]

I’m not being obtuse. I just know that idioms are and can be very specific to a language and change greatly over time. So it’s nearly impossible that people 2000 years ago who spoke a different language would use similar idioms.

Do you have a cite to all the idioms used in the Bible so we would know when someone was telling us what God wanted to know and when a humor author was just injecting their own idiom?

Jesus said, "I am the door", does that mean He is a literal door? Use common sense. Paul uses an idiom that was similar to our, "over and over and over again". Proverbs uses the term "give ear", almost identical to our "lend me your ears". There are countless passages in Psalms describing the beauty of nature in almost identical poetic language as we use today. In fact, use of idiom and style is so translatable and easily passed through time and cultures that the ones who penned the various Books of the Bible are easily identified by writing style. We even use the same principle today. Pablo Neruda was a Chilean poet who wrote only in Spanish. But his poetry is beautifully communicated, with it's full weight and intent, in its English (and other language) translations.

You are very much being obtuse. You refuse to apply the same common sense rules of literature and communication that you use with any other document, with your own speech, to the Bible... because you want to twist the words to find fault. You didn't say this morning, "That's a beautiful earth rotation", you said (I hope you were able to enjoy the beauty), "That was an amazing sunrise". But the sun didn't rise. You used the same kind of language the Bible does. Have you now denied science?

 

[JaySecrets]

From your wiki page, "who dated the manuscript of Isaiah at around 100 BCE"

Note: Aristotle is documented as 300 years BCE.


Is 700 BC earlier or later than 100 BC (note Before Common Era "BCE" and Before Christ "BC" are about the same timelines in pre history)

AS I said the book of Isaiah later passages are much younger than the rest of the text.

From the rest of the document studies, the fact that it is preserved with other easily datable documents tells how old it is. And given the specifics of its prophecy, predicting in detail well before events were even possible to take place - we are talking names and locations - it is ludicrous to say that it is somehow unreliable on other fronts. You simply don't want the accountability of believing.

 

[JaySecrets]

From your wiki page, "who dated the manuscript of Isaiah at around 100 BCE"

Note: Aristotle is documented as 300 years BCE.


Is 700 BC earlier or later than 100 BC (note Before Common Era "BCE" and Before Christ "BC" are about the same timelines in pre history)

AS I said the book of Isaiah later passages are much younger than the rest of the text.

The problem is that what was predicted happened well after they were sealed. In detail. Down the the names. There is no two books solution. The scrolls prove that, and the only ones denying that are the ones who are rabidly anti-scripture. Even honest sceptics disagree with you.

 

[ll74]

From the rest of the document studies, the fact that it is preserved with other easily datable documents tells how old it is. And given the specifics of its prophecy, predicting in detail well before events were even possible to take place - we are talking names and locations - it is ludicrous to say that it is somehow unreliable on other fronts. You simply don't want the accountability of believing.

Geological records disagree with your bible.

 

[JaySecrets]

Your religion is not mine. Your god is not mine. Your laws are not mine.

Try that with a traffic cop. You still end up with a ticket.

All of the science that I know can be repeated. I don't need to read your book or interpret your text to understand it. I don't need to say that a god was the reason because I know and have seen what the reason is.

So show me. Show me ONE EXAMPLE of one kind changing into another kind - cat to dog, corn to apple, fish to mammal, anything, that is observable and repeatable. If it is true it should be easy. Just one example that can be observed using the scientific method.

New scientific discovery doesn't need a new interpretation of your book to explain why it's there

So where did all the mass of material for the universe come from? In a vacuum, with nothing to impede the outward blast or cause deflection, how did so many particals suddenly change direction instead of either flying infinitely outward or collapsing on itself after the bang? What triggered the bang? How did life come to be? (All they can do in a lab is create the strands, they can't give life to them, and that is in a very highly controlled environment.) How is it that every law of thermodynamics can be violated at the start then somehow become viable?

And evolution, while such a mystery to you, exists in fossil records, geology and observstion, such as the new species of bacteria, which you can't seem to grasp.

You are describing adaptation. Micro-evolution. No one denies that happens. But what you believe requires a leap to a change between kinds, and we can't even do that today in controlled cross breeding.

Poor soul - your entire state of being would implode if you found out that your god wasn't there for you at your death. Or that heaven does not exist for your loved ones or that hell does not exist for your enemies.

I don't, nor does any true Christian, desire hell for anyone. We do all we can to warn people from it. Even our enemies. Our God says, "Love your enemies. Bless them that curse you. Do good to them who spitefully use you and say all manner of evil against you falsely."

And you are in a far worse state when you find out you were wrong and ignored and denied every chance and revelation of the Truth.

 

[JaySecrets]

There's a small number of mathematicians and scientists who are religious.

Your god didn't give them anything to discover things....they simply repeated experiments and observed the results. And zero real scientists believe the earth is only tens of thousands of years old.

Go through the credentials of the scientists at the ICR...

https://www.icr.org/article/consider-source

Or perhaps this list of uneducated idiots...

https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/

Your claims have no merit