U.S. politics isolation tank

[WriterDom]

Which part of Sacred Defense will you cut to offset the loss of revenue? Because we all know from listening to every Republican in the land that the deficit is Problem Number 1 in this country.

I'd be fine with cutting the nominal tax rate so long as we also eliminate all subsidies to business so that corporations would, in fact, pay the corporate tax rate.

How long are you committed to having US combat troops in Afghanistan?

Because if the answer isn't: "As long as it takes," then we can pull them all out tomorrow and save a lot of American lives. And money.

 

[midwestyankee]

How long are you committed to having US combat troops in Afghanistan?

Because if the answer isn't: "As long as it takes," then we can pull them all out tomorrow and save a lot of American lives. And money.

I never wanted them there in the first place. I distinctly remember hearing Bush speak about the possibility of invading Afghanistan for the first time and getting sick to my stomach.

You're evading the question. What would you cut to offset the revenue lost by lowering the corporate income tax? Alternatively, what other tax would you increase to make up the difference?

 

[WriterDom]

I never wanted them there in the first place. I distinctly remember hearing Bush speak about the possibility of invading Afghanistan for the first time and getting sick to my stomach.

You're evading the question. What would you cut to offset the revenue lost by lowering the corporate income tax? Alternatively, what other tax would you increase to make up the difference?

Why does anything have to be offset? Obama is spending like a whore on crack. And at the same time cutting taxes. What the fuck did he offset by all the tax cuts?

 

[WriterDom]

Ok, so last year when you lost two blue governorships and the JFK senate seat it had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with democrats running bad candidates. That's what I was told here.

So if you lose 55 seats in the House on Tuesday does it have anything to do with Obama this time around or is it just 55 bad candidates?

 

[midwestyankee]

Why does anything have to be offset? Obama is spending like a whore on crack. And at the same time cutting taxes. What the fuck did he offset by all the tax cuts?

I've never seen a whore on crack do any spending - and I'll wager that you haven't either. That spending you see was an attempt to save the country from a depression begun by good ol' boy George W. If you want to argue that the best way out of a depression is to cut spending then I have two words for you: Herbert Hoover.

Obama hasn't been raising a huge stink about the deficit but every Republican under the sun has been screaming Deficit, the sky is falling. So it's incumbent on the guys on your side to put their money where their mouth is and talk about actually, you know, cutting the deficit.

So, what's it going to be to pay for lowering the tax rates on your buddies at Halliburton and Goldman Sachs?

 

[WriterDom]

I've never seen a whore on crack do any spending - and I'll wager that you haven't either. That spending you see was an attempt to save the country from a depression begun by good ol' boy George W. If you want to argue that the best way out of a depression is to cut spending then I have two words for you: Herbert Hoover.

Obama hasn't been raising a huge stink about the deficit but every Republican under the sun has been screaming Deficit, the sky is falling. So it's incumbent on the guys on your side to put their money where their mouth is and talk about actually, you know, cutting the deficit.

So, what's it going to be to pay for lowering the tax rates on your buddies at Halliburton and Goldman Sachs?

You are assuming lower tax rates mean less revenue. Well that depends on the stimulative nature of it, right?

We only know what was and what is. All this "jobs saved" and "depression avoided" is just words. Just words. If you really wanted to stimulate the economy rather than protect your governmental union buddies you would have injected that much spending within six months. How much of it is still unspent? 40% or more? 50%?

But no, we need to pass it right fucking now before anyone reads the bill or the unemployment rate will go to 8%. That's the message I got. If the best they have is "well, things were worse than we thought," then they deserve the asskicking that's coming.

At least Obama will have someone to blame once "no" actually means "no". Other than Bush of course.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

What matters is who pays in order for our society to prosper.

In the 50s we were also in a war. We had a balanced budget, though. And the greatest thriving, growing middle class in American history.

Was it magic?

Um, no. The federal tax on corporate profits was 45 percent. The estate tax was 77 percent. And the top income tax rate was 91 percent.

Oh yeah. Renew the tax cuts for the millionaires.

 

[intothewoods]

Who watched the Daily Show last night? What's your take on how the Prez did?

Obama did great. This wasn't a grilling by any means. Stewart was...ok. I mean he's never been so great at interviews.

 

[midwestyankee]

You are assuming lower tax rates mean less revenue. Well that depends on the stimulative nature of it, right?

We only know what was and what is. All this "jobs saved" and "depression avoided" is just words. Just words. If you really wanted to stimulate the economy rather than protect your governmental union buddies you would have injected that much spending within six months. How much of it is still unspent? 40% or more? 50%?

But no, we need to pass it right fucking now before anyone reads the bill or the unemployment rate will go to 8%. That's the message I got. If the best they have is "well, things were worse than we thought," then they deserve the asskicking that's coming.

At least Obama will have someone to blame once "no" actually means "no". Other than Bush of course.

Fine. For the sake of argument, let's presume that there is a 10% stimulative effect. So you're going to cut some number in tax revenue - let's say it would be $500 billion over 10 years after all calculations for the 10% stimulation are counted in. Where do you take out the $500 billion to make up for the lost revenue?

 

[Homburg]

Obama did great. This wasn't a grilling by any means. Stewart was...ok. I mean he's never been so great at interviews.

I think Stewart's problem with interviews is less a lack of skill, and more that he is trying to really balance his own often scathing wit with a desire to not be too hostile. He picked on Obama, but didn't do it hard, and gave him the right openings without sounding like he was on the President's side.

 

[WriterDom]

Fine. For the sake of argument, let's presume that there is a 10% stimulative effect. So you're going to cut some number in tax revenue - let's say it would be $500 billion over 10 years after all calculations for the 10% stimulation are counted in. Where do you take out the $500 billion to make up for the lost revenue?

Regardless of taxes, we need to look at cutting federal spending. What would you not cut?

Social Security needs to be scraped. Grandfather people in at a certain age but while a great idea when 100 people were working to support Grandpa, now it's just dumb. That's going to be politically unpopular, but it needs to go.

Cuts are coming. Just ask France, or the UK, or Greece about that.

We can either cut out the tumor or wait until it spreads like Greece. Since hard issues are never tackled, my guess is we do little of nothing until the shit hits the fan. The Obama/congress wars will be interesting in the coming months. He can either learn from Bill or continue to be an ass and lose in 2012.

 

[midwestyankee]

Regardless of taxes, we need to look at cutting federal spending. What would you not cut?

Social Security needs to be scraped. Grandfather people in at a certain age but while a great idea when 100 people were working to support Grandpa, now it's just dumb. That's going to be politically unpopular, but it needs to go.

Cuts are coming. Just ask France, or the UK, or Greece about that.

We can either cut out the tumor or wait until it spreads like Greece. Since hard issues are never tackled, my guess is we do little of nothing until the shit hits the fan. The Obama/congress wars will be interesting in the coming months. He can either learn from Bill or continue to be an ass and lose in 2012.

So the only thing you would look to cut is Social Security? There's not a few billion in the Defense budget that couldn't be scrapped?

President Obama is one of the most even-tempered, civil men to occupy the office. Please prove that he is an ass.

 

[WriterDom]

So the only thing you would look to cut is Social Security? There's not a few billion in the Defense budget that couldn't be scrapped?

President Obama is one of the most even-tempered, civil men to occupy the office. Please prove that he is an ass.

Telling MexAmericans to vote against their "enemies" is civil? I'm not going to argue with your Love for Obama. That would be pointless for both of us. You have every right to tingles up your leg.

It's my understanding that the military is already facing cuts across the board along with the scraping of major weapons systems.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/10/29...er&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning+Bell

Here is over 300 billion that the Heritage would cut.

 

[intothewoods]

I think Stewart's problem with interviews is less a lack of skill, and more that he is trying to really balance his own often scathing wit with a desire to not be too hostile. He picked on Obama, but didn't do it hard, and gave him the right openings without sounding like he was on the President's side.

I think he is typically more hands-off with politicians of a certain level. I'm remembering his interview with Clinton and, I think, Colin Powell. Honestly, though he is sharp and makes great arguments, he's best as a comedian and I'd rather see him go somewhere else during the interviews. Like his recent interview with Condi Rice was fun -- it wasn't political and that was fine. Something I wouldn't see elsewhere. Sometimes when he goes head to head with people it's good, and sometimes it's lame. He was pretty weak with John Yoo.

 

[midwestyankee]

Telling MexAmericans to vote against their "enemies" is civil? I'm not going to argue with your Love for Obama. That would be pointless for both of us. You have every right to tingles up your leg.

It's my understanding that the military is already facing cuts across the board along with the scraping of major weapons systems.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/10/29...er&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning+Bell

Here is over 300 billion that the Heritage would cut.

Telling Mexican Americans to vote against their enemies? You have proof that the President did this? Source please.

You still haven't answered the question that I asked: what would you cut? And frankly, if a "cut" of some sort is already in the works then it can't offset a future loss in revenue.

What would you cut to give your corporate friends more money?

 

[intothewoods]

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re going to punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s going to be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...-reform/?scp=1&sq=punish enemies obama&st=cse

I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's clear it's not literal. Candidates aren't actually your friends either.

 

[midwestyankee]

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re going to punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s going to be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...-reform/?scp=1&sq=punish enemies obama&st=cse

I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's clear it's not literal. Candidates aren't actually your friends either.

So for this one somewhat hyperbolic statement, WD thinks the man is an ass? I can't imagine what that means about Steve King, Michelle Bachmann, or John Boehner.

 

[Netzach]

Telling MexAmericans to vote against their "enemies" is civil? I'm not going to argue with your Love for Obama. That would be pointless for both of us. You have every right to tingles up your leg.

It's my understanding that the military is already facing cuts across the board along with the scraping of major weapons systems.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/10/29...er&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning+Bell

Here is over 300 billion that the Heritage would cut.

"Privatization. Many current government functions could be performed more efficiently by the private sector."

Like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

 

[WriterDom]

So for this one somewhat hyperbolic statement, WD thinks the man is an ass? I can't imagine what that means about Steve King, Michelle Bachmann, or John Boehner.

You have to admit he is a whiner. Fox news, whine whine whine, Talk radio, whine whine whine. They talk about me like I'm a dog. Well, yeah, you are the president. And things are worse. Comes with the job, right?

"Get out and vote. Don't make me look bad." Don't make you look bad? Jesus Christ. Narcissistic or what?

Obama has issues. I don't make it a point of saving every idiotic thing he says. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid listening to the guy. He's just a polished act. Take away his telepromter and his speaking isn't that impressive. And I liked him in the beginning. But you can't tell me he sat in that batshit crazy church for twenty years and didn't know the Rev. Wright was loonlytoons. When he tried to pull that off I knew he was just a politician. Nothing special. Another one term mistake like Carter.

 

[intothewoods]

The funny thing is that I think Obama is disliked by a lot of politicians because he doesn't operate in a traditional way. Supposedly McCain hates him because he was never particularly deferential when he was a baby senator. He likes Hillary just fine btw.

At the end of the day, Republicans are going to do well because of the economy. We'll see how things stand in 2012, and we'll see who is up against Obama. I absolutely think Palin will run, maybe as a third party candidate.

Anyway, Obama is a politician, no surprise there.

 

[midwestyankee]

You have to admit he is a whiner. Fox news, whine whine whine, Talk radio, whine whine whine. They talk about me like I'm a dog. Well, yeah, you are the president. And things are worse. Comes with the job, right?

"Get out and vote. Don't make me look bad." Don't make you look bad? Jesus Christ. Narcissistic or what?

Obama has issues. I don't make it a point of saving every idiotic thing he says. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid listening to the guy. He's just a polished act. Take away his telepromter and his speaking isn't that impressive. And I liked him in the beginning. But you can't tell me he sat in that batshit crazy church for twenty years and didn't know the Rev. Wright was loonlytoons. When he tried to pull that off I knew he was just a politician. Nothing special. Another one term mistake like Carter.

No, I don't have to admit it. You're making the accusation but I don't buy it.

So where's your answer to the question? Seems to me to be a very straightforward question: if you want to pull some number of billions of dollars out of the government's pocket to enrich business owners, then what would you do to replace that money? You have three choices: raise other taxes, cut actual spending, or cut some tax deductions. What's it going to be?

You have continually proclaimed all Democrats to be pansies and wusses and yet you appear to be afraid to answer this very simple question without deflection.

 

[rosco rathbone]

A little lefty rage to spice up the isolation tank:

As long as the liberal class had even limited influence, whether through the press or the legislative process, liberals were tolerated and even respected. But once the liberal class lost all influence it became a class of parasites. The liberal class, like the déclassé French aristocracy, has no real function within the power elite. And the rising right-wing populists, correctly, ask why liberals should be tolerated when their rhetoric bears no relation to reality and their presence has no influence on power.

https://www.truthdig.com/report/print/the_world_liberal_opportunists_made_20101025/

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

You have to admit he is a whiner. Fox news, whine whine whine, Talk radio, whine whine whine. They talk about me like I'm a dog. Well, yeah, you are the president. And things are worse. Comes with the job, right?

"Get out and vote. Don't make me look bad." Don't make you look bad? Jesus Christ. Narcissistic or what?

Obama has issues. I don't make it a point of saving every idiotic thing he says. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid listening to the guy. He's just a polished act. Take away his telepromter and his speaking isn't that impressive. And I liked him in the beginning. But you can't tell me he sat in that batshit crazy church for twenty years and didn't know the Rev. Wright was loonlytoons. When he tried to pull that off I knew he was just a politician. Nothing special. Another one term mistake like Carter.

Maybe we just project psychwork onto those with whom we virulently disagree. Seriously, After Bush 1, Clinton and particularly Bush 2, whom I thought was a psychology dissertation in skin form, Obama seems to me alarmingly, almost pathologically emotionally mature. Hold it: that's actually the reason a lot of libs are pissed at him at this stage.

 

[WriterDom]

I really don't believe the President, any president, is the Wizard of Oz when it comes to the economy. Even though there are fiscal and spending remedies but it's always like trying to steer a one million ton ship with a canoe oar.

Where Obama fucked up was pulling all his chips into ObamaCare while America burned. He knew he wouldn't have the votes after the midterm. Most people hate it anyway. To the liberals it was like giving an alcoholic a non-alcoholic beer. To conservatives, well, they know you can take cost projections of any new spending program and multiply it by 10 and get a more accurate prediction. Independents are just worried about their jobs and mortgages.

One thing is sure, we'll have a different looking congress in January. And more boos and hisses during the State of the Nation speech.

Meanwhile the partisan hacks will be a little confused as to who gets credit when things improve. And they will improve. It's just a matter of time. What we have now is a little better but "summer of misery" is more accurate.

And Go Dawgs!

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I really don't believe the President, any president, is the Wizard of Oz when it comes to the economy. Even though there are fiscal and spending remedies but it's always like trying to steer a one million ton ship with a canoe oar.

Where Obama fucked up was pulling all his chips into ObamaCare while America burned. He knew he wouldn't have the votes after the midterm. Most people hate it anyway. To the liberals it was like giving an alcoholic a non-alcoholic beer. To conservatives, well, they know you can take cost projections of any new spending program and multiply it by 10 and get a more accurate prediction. Independents are just worried about their jobs and mortgages.

One thing is sure, we'll have a different looking congress in January. And more boos and hisses during the State of the Nation speech.

Meanwhile the partisan hacks will be a little confused as to who gets credit when things improve. And they will improve. It's just a matter of time. What we have now is a little better but "summer of misery" is more accurate.

And Go Dawgs!

Yeah, I wish if he were gonna do health reform and piss people off anyway, which I though somebody had to, I wish he would've gone for single payer. Just go for it. It'll be years before you get another chance.

I think he genuinely believed he could remake the tone of politics, and I think that's where he spent his chips. Live by "Hope," die by "Hope." It will be interesting to see if there is any compromise after the election, and if not, whom the voters blame; I think the blame could go either way. I'm also interested to see if the tea party energy continues in the same way once the realities of the process set in, as well as whether the Democratic base has bolted, and whether there will be a reaction to the new Congressional agenda.