U.S. politics isolation tank

[JMohegan]

This is interesting

http://www.denbeste.nu/external/Mead01.html

Genocidal bastard is hardly a selling point for "great" designation, in my book.

God bless Bernie Sanders.

This.

Sanders is great.

It's about fucking time the left did something more than whine about Obama's alleged deficiencies. The country's not a fucking dictatorship, and he's got no magic wand.

 

[WriterDom]

Genocidal bastard is hardly a selling point for "great" designation, in my book.



Sanders is great.

It's about fucking time the left did something more than whine about Obama's alleged deficiencies. The country's not a fucking dictatorship, and he's got no magic wand.

Yes, he does have a magic wand. He just forgot to wave it after the 840 billion dollar stimulus was passed to keep the employment rate from going over 8% as promised. No, presidents are fairly helpless when it comes to the economy. Some promises they can keep. Like all the C-Span hearings on healthcare. Man, I got tired of those going on 24/7 on both C-Span 1 & 2 but at least I know what's in the bill and behind the process.

His first act could have been to reset the taxes. He ran on NOT letting them all expire. You know, when he had 60 democrats in the senate and a 39 net surplus in the House and a few moderate republicans including the two republicans in Maine who vote with the democrats. The tea party has their panties in a wad right now.

He probably knew that raising taxes doesn't create a single job. Ever. If you think it does you need to box up your computer and return it to the store because you are too ignorant to own a computer. Take your pick. And before you go on about how Clinton raised taxes and things were wonderful, well, tax rates aren't the most significant rudders to the economy. If they were someone would have suggested raising them before now. And hell, we have a few days left in the year before tax forms need to be mailed out. Government printers can probably use the overtime.

Yes, taxes need to be raised on probably everyone. Lets get a few more people working first.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes, he does have a magic wand. He just forgot to wave it after the 840 billion dollar stimulus was passed to keep the employment rate from going over 8% as promised. No, presidents are fairly helpless when it comes to the economy. Some promises they can keep. Like all the C-Span hearings on healthcare. Man, I got tired of those going on 24/7 on both C-Span 1 & 2 but at least I know what's in the bill and behind the process.

His first act could have been to reset the taxes. He ran on NOT letting them all expire. You know, when he had 60 democrats in the senate and a 39 net surplus in the House and a few moderate republicans including the two republicans in Maine who vote with the democrats. The tea party has their panties in a wad right now.

He probably knew that raising taxes doesn't create a single job. Ever. If you think it does you need to box up your computer and return it to the store because you are too ignorant to own a computer. Take your pick. And before you go on about how Clinton raised taxes and things were wonderful, well, tax rates aren't the most significant rudders to the economy. If they were someone would have suggested raising them before now. And hell, we have a few days left in the year before tax forms need to be mailed out. Government printers can probably use the overtime.

Yes, taxes need to be raised on probably everyone. Lets get a few more people working first.

My point was that the power of the purse is a congressional, not executive, power, and further that Democrats are not a monolithic bunch.

As for the bit in bold, I'd say that depends. It depends on whom you are taxing, and what you do with the revenue received from the tax.

I know that's not a very satisfying answer, as it fails to fit neatly into a black/white, absolute right/absolute wrong, world vision. But it's a fact, nevertheless.

 

[WriterDom]

My point was that the power of the purse is a congressional, not executive, power, and further that Democrats are not a monolithic bunch.

A handful of democrats broke with the republicans over the tax issue. But that was after the worst shellacking in congress since the 1930s. Plus Ted is dead and a republican is in the Obama seat and already sworn in. I doubt any democrat and a significant number of republicans would have any objection to raising tax rates on the rich two years ago. Yes, Obama would have to say "Let's do this," first. How hard is that? Only one more letter than, "Yes, we can!"

But they did nothing and even worse they let things lie in flux to see first how the election would turn out. Basically making tax a political football right up to the end of the year.

 

[JMohegan]

A handful of democrats broke with the republicans over the tax issue. But that was after the worst shellacking in congress since the 1930s. Plus Ted is dead and a republican is in the Obama seat and already sworn in. I doubt any democrat and a significant number of republicans would have any objection to raising tax rates on the rich two years ago. Yes, Obama would have to say "Let's do this," first. How hard is that? Only one more letter than, "Yes, we can!"

But they did nothing and even worse they let things lie in flux to see first how the election would turn out. Basically making tax a political football right up to the end of the year.

Actually, there were $288 billion in tax CUTS in the stimulus package.

And if you think Obama could have done anything he wanted, anything at all, on the day he was sworn in, all I can say is you must not have been paying attention.

Contrary to the spin put on it by the right, that stimulus package was NOT a liberal's dream or expression of Keynesian glory. From my perspective, it was a watered-down, compromised, something for everyone, shadow of what it should have been.

 

[JMohegan]

Here you go, WD, check this out.


The events of last week illustrate a pair of seemingly contradictory trends, both brewing for decades. One is the hardening of the two parties. In the 1950s, famed Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson (D-Tex.) could attract support from moderate Republicans - which let him overcome defections of conservative Democrats.

Now, Republicans, at least, largely vote as one.

But at the same time that Republican and Democratic senators grew apart politically, they became even more reluctant to fight in the open. Senate history from the 1950s and 1960s is marked by long filibusters in which senators held forth for hours about things they disliked.

Now, that tradition has evolved so that stand-up-and-talk filibusters are rarely required. But the threat to filibuster, made without fanfare or spectacle, is a constant.

During Johnson's three terms as majority leader, from 1955 to 1961, there was only one time when a vote was called to break a filibuster. In the past two years, there have been 84.

Senate procedures now require that most controversial bills face two such "cloture" votes: one before they are taken up and another before they can be voted on.

It doesn't matter which party has the majority; if it doesn't have 60 senators, the body can't even hold a vote on legislation it wants to pass.

Last week, the unique conditions of a lame duck session made it a test case for the Senate's problems. Reid could not avail himself of LBJ-style maneuvers, using threats or promises of public-works projects to bring Republicans along.

"There's not a member up here that would agree to these bullying tactics in this day and age," Reid spokesman Jim Manley said. "For those harkening back to the golden years, they're completely misreading the current situation."

 

[WriterDom]

Well, it's too risky to even try to raise taxes when you can just let them expire, right? No one likes a tax raiser. We got locked into this expiring argument because republicans didn't have the votes to make it permanent.


It will sound good for Obama's reelection campaign:


"You know, I said we'd raise taxes on the rich but those terrorists, the American Taliban, held us hostage and outsmarted us, but it won't happen again or my name isn't Barry Obama. And we'll hold tax hearings on C-Span."

 

[JMohegan]

Well, it's too risky to even try to raise taxes when you can just let them expire, right? No one likes a tax raiser. We got locked into this expiring argument because republicans didn't have the votes to make it permanent.

Yet the republicans did have the votes to block a partial extension.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/04/AR2010120403716.html

I find this extraordinary. Not the fact that Republicans are willing to go to the mat for the very rich, but the fact that people like you, WD, support their efforts in doing so.

 

[teknight]

Yet the republicans did have the votes to block a partial extension.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/04/AR2010120403716.html

I find this extraordinary. Not the fact that Republicans are willing to go to the mat for the very rich, but the fact that people like you, WD, support their efforts in doing so.

Maybe WD is really super rich?

 

[midwestyankee]

Maybe WD is really super rich?

Probably not.

However, it can be a bit of a self-generated ego boost to cheer for something alongside the rich and the powerful. It's probably similar to the feeling that some people derive from cheering their favorite big-time sports team. It seems to be a part of the American fabric for people to dream about/strive for becoming wealthy. Thus you find so many pulling for the rich to get every possible advantage (just in case I get there, I won't want my well-deserved lotto winnings to be taxed so some lazy ass roofer can get his few hundred dollars a week in umemployment) in a weird and seemingly not self-interested way.

 

[JMohegan]

It seems to be a part of the American fabric for people to dream about/strive for becoming wealthy. Thus you find so many pulling for the rich to get every possible advantage (just in case I get there, I won't want my well-deserved lotto winnings to be taxed so some lazy ass roofer can get his few hundred dollars a week in umemployment) in a weird and seemingly not self-interested way.

We can call this "Joe the Plumber Syndrome," or JPS.

 

[midwestyankee]

We can call this "Joe the Plumber Syndrome," or JPS.

Exactly. Because there was the quintessential example of what I tried to describe: a guy who doesn't make anywhere near enough money to benefit from the economic policies he supports and would, in fact, probably lose ground because of them. And yet he was proud to grab camera time to spout off about how candidate Obama's thinking was going to ruin his financial future.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Interesting article on how Ireland is about to socialise the private losses of the financial sector.

http://crookedtimber.org/2010/12/13/ireland’s-budget-living-under-draco-2/

It seems to me that any time you do something like this, it has to be hand-in-hand with a narrative about poor people are at fault. In the US, we have the attempt to blame the 2008 crash on ACORN and the CRA. I don't know anything about Irish politics, so I wonder what their rentier class will come up with as a cover story.

 

[Netzach]

I don't know anything about Irish politics, so I wonder what their rentier class will come up with as a cover story.

I haven't been there in a very long time but you just hit on the major diff.

MOST people are renters in Europe. Living modest lives in modest, functional, village apartments or small houses, sometimes owning, often renting, not relegated to only the cat-food-for-dinner demographic as a retired renter.

So there isn't this notion that the renter is a poor useless slob - it's harder to vilify every MF who doesn't own a house because home ownership was never a government/cultural push as the only marker of personal achievement.

They're going to blame the continent, and the Euro, and the bankers - where it actually lies.

Liked this commenter's take:

"I’m beginning to wonder if the end-game for the Euro will involve social as well as financial actions. In other words, Merkel and company may delay and obfuscate, but I think they risk being taken by surprise by some pretty nasty events in the street."

 

[WriterDom]

Yet the republicans did have the votes to block a partial extension.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/04/AR2010120403716.html

I find this extraordinary. Not the fact that Republicans are willing to go to the mat for the very rich, but the fact that people like you, WD, support their efforts in doing so.

I just don't think 70 billion is going to help when we need 1400 billion to break even for the year. I suggest we kill everyone making over 250,000 and take everything they own and give it to the government. After all, the US government is so fucking good with managing money.

We are probably going to have to raise taxes on everyone at some point. And Ireland, tax a few of the bottom 50%. But first lets get some Bushy unemployment numbers.

 

[midwestyankee]

I just don't think 70 billion is going to help when we need 1400 billion to break even for the year. I suggest we kill everyone making over 250,000 and take everything they own and give it to the government. After all, the US government is so fucking good with managing money.

We are probably going to have to raise taxes on everyone at some point. And Ireland, tax a few of the bottom 50%. But first lets get some Bushy unemployment numbers.

Have you ever answered a direct question in this or any other political thread?

 

[JMohegan]

What are we, China now? Holy shit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704694004576019944121568506.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[00Syd]

What are we, China now? Holy shit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704694004576019944121568506.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Holy. Shit.

 

[WriterDom]

Probably not.

However, it can be a bit of a self-generated ego boost to cheer for something alongside the rich and the powerful. It's probably similar to the feeling that some people derive from cheering their favorite big-time sports team. It seems to be a part of the American fabric for people to dream about/strive for becoming wealthy. Thus you find so many pulling for the rich to get every possible advantage (just in case I get there, I won't want my well-deserved lotto winnings to be taxed so some lazy ass roofer can get his few hundred dollars a week in umemployment) in a weird and seemingly not self-interested way.

Have you ever talked to real people or had sources other than MSNBC and Air America? You really believe that people vote republican because they don't want to pay your extra 4% tax should they ever become rich? Most people realize rich people pretty much fund the government as it is and pay well over 50% percent of their income in taxes when you add all the state, local, and sales taxes plus all the fees the government likes to tack on every time a dollar exchanges hands.

The reason the democrats enjoyed the worse asskicking since 1938 is the same reason the republicans were kicked out of power. Because they spend money like a whore on crack. Not only that, but the democrats said lets spend unprecedented amounts and the unemployment rate will fall. Well, guess what. It went the other way. So now we have Obama the tax cutter. At least he's pragmatic.

It doesn't matter. You can sit in the back of the bus until another generation comes along that you can sell this socialistic crap to. It's already dying in Europe. I hope they bury it upside down so you all can kiss Karl Marx's ass one last time.

 

[WriterDom]

What are we, China now? Holy shit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704694004576019944121568506.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The key word here dude, is work. They can go home and read the NYT's and suck boy on boy cock all night. Just don't tell.

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's already dying in Europe.

World Economic Forum Global Competitiveness Report

Europe is having all kinds of problems but these rankings were kind of surprising to me. Sweden beating us. Who da thunk it?

 

[midwestyankee]

Have you ever talked to real people or had sources other than MSNBC and Air America? You really believe that people vote republican because they don't want to pay your extra 4% tax should they ever become rich? Most people realize rich people pretty much fund the government as it is and pay well over 50% percent of their income in taxes when you add all the state, local, and sales taxes plus all the fees the government likes to tack on every time a dollar exchanges hands.

The reason the democrats enjoyed the worse asskicking since 1938 is the same reason the republicans were kicked out of power. Because they spend money like a whore on crack. Not only that, but the democrats said lets spend unprecedented amounts and the unemployment rate will fall. Well, guess what. It went the other way. So now we have Obama the tax cutter. At least he's pragmatic.

It doesn't matter. You can sit in the back of the bus until another generation comes along that you can sell this socialistic crap to. It's already dying in Europe. I hope they bury it upside down so you all can kiss Karl Marx's ass one last time.

So why does John Boehner cry so much?

 

[WriterDom]

So why does John Boehner cry so much?

He's gay.

 

[midwestyankee]

He's gay.

America is going down the tubes. Today the paper had a list of the Top 10 Quotes of the Year. Christine O'Donnell had two of them.

 

[WriterDom]

Gallup released a poll this morning showing that the American people dislike this 111th Congress more than any Congress ever. Specifically, a full 83% of Americans disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job while only 13% approve.

13%? Damn, they have a lot of relatives!