U.S. politics isolation tank

[rosco rathbone]

Not that I had the stomach to watch in real time, but did anyone see Rick Perry's campaign explode in a hail of pitifulness last night?

I don't get it. Why is forgetting some memorized talking point seen as such a big deal? Reagan did it all the time.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't get it. Why is forgetting some memorized talking point seen as such a big deal? Reagan did it all the time.

I think there is a substantial difference in style and substance between the two men. Reagan seemed able to carry off a whole lot of blunders and misfortunes to the point that he became known as "the Teflon President." In contrast, Perry's flub last night confirmed what many people had been thinking all along: that the man just doesn't have the mental horsepower for the job.

People expected Reagan to make and then gloss over flubs and errors with wit, which he generally did. People's assumptions of Perry include that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. What he did last night magnified that assumption and made it so painfully clear in public that he has begun to embarrass even his ardent supporters.

I won't be so foolish as to make an outright prediction, but it certainly seems as if this episode could be enough to blow up his chances of getting close to the nomination.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm embarrassed to say no, I haven't been there yet. There were key issues on various ballots this fall, and I've been spending time on the ground in other places. Mostly Ohio.


Focus this month should be on repealing the Bush tax cuts.

Tangible, specific, rather obvious to all except the Republican Powers That Be.

Ah ha, I should have guessed.

Not that I had the stomach to watch in real time, but did anyone see Rick Perry's campaign explode in a hail of pitifulness last night?

It is painful to watch. I actually think the only one who looks good is Romney. Well, Romney and Ron Paul, but no one ever pays attention to Ron Paul. Maybe all of this lead up will be good for Romney.

Against all preconceived notions, I actually like the guy. He comes off as amiable, not obnoxious. Hail fellow well met. Not a dick. And a happy drunk, no less!

Wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy; he reminds me of Huckabee '08. So I'll pass on the Perry bashing.

I don't think he seems obnoxious either. Huckabee had a lot more charm though. Heck, he had me ready to submit to Jesus too!

I don't get it. Why is forgetting some memorized talking point seen as such a big deal? Reagan did it all the time.

It's really not. I think is one of those things that plays more in the lamestream media. Perry just isn't doing that well, and this doesn't help.

 

[midwestyankee]

It's really not. I think is one of those things that plays more in the lamestream media. Perry just isn't doing that well, and this doesn't help.

In terms of the politics, though, it is a big deal. Because Rick Perry was supposed to be the answer to the prayers of the evangelical-friendly big-money guys' prayers for a not-Romney candidate. On paper he was golden: multiple terms as a big-state governor, free access to all the support and money the evangelicals could whip up, and the looks of a matinee idol. In fact, Governor Haircut (as Molly Ivins used to call him), is proving to be mostly all big hat and no cattle. Now they seem to be stuck with Romney or a brokered convention that might be even riskier than nominating a guy that the base doesn't trust on religious grounds.

And when you make your political party over into a religious organization, that spells trouble.

Prayer-answer #2, Herman Cain, doesn't seem like he's going to make it to the starting line of the primaries, either, does he? Or do you think he'll make this week's events go away?

 

[JMohegan]

I think there is a substantial difference in style and substance between the two men. Reagan seemed able to carry off a whole lot of blunders and misfortunes to the point that he became known as "the Teflon President." In contrast, Perry's flub last night confirmed what many people had been thinking all along: that the man just doesn't have the mental horsepower for the job.

People expected Reagan to make and then gloss over flubs and errors with wit, which he generally did. People's assumptions of Perry include that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. What he did last night magnified that assumption and made it so painfully clear in public that he has begun to embarrass even his ardent supporters.

I won't be so foolish as to make an outright prediction, but it certainly seems as if this episode could be enough to blow up his chances of getting close to the nomination.

His chances of getting close to the nomination were blown when he refused to profess an abiding and unyielding hatred for any & all Mexicans.

More specifically, when he expressed support for in-state tuition for the children of illegal immigrants. Check the polling history. That's when his support plummeted.

 

[BiBunny]

Saw this on Facebook and laughed. I figured I'd share with those of you who know more about politics than I do.

 

[intothewoods]

In terms of the politics, though, it is a big deal. Because Rick Perry was supposed to be the answer to the prayers of the evangelical-friendly big-money guys' prayers for a not-Romney candidate. On paper he was golden: multiple terms as a big-state governor, free access to all the support and money the evangelicals could whip up, and the looks of a matinee idol. In fact, Governor Haircut (as Molly Ivins used to call him), is proving to be mostly all big hat and no cattle. Now they seem to be stuck with Romney or a brokered convention that might be even riskier than nominating a guy that the base doesn't trust on religious grounds.

And when you make your political party over into a religious organization, that spells trouble.

Prayer-answer #2, Herman Cain, doesn't seem like he's going to make it to the starting line of the primaries, either, does he? Or do you think he'll make this week's events go away?

He was supposed to be the answer, but he isn't, and not because of that particular gaffe.

Herman Cain is done. Romney will be the nominee.

 

[midwestyankee]

His chances of getting close to the nomination were blown when he refused to profess an abiding and unyielding hatred for any & all Mexicans.

More specifically, when he expressed support for in-state tuition for the children of illegal immigrants. Check the polling history. That's when his support plummeted.

I'm well aware that his poll numbers took the ski slope after that remark. However, in the hands of a more capable politician, one able to carry a political tune, it was a recoverable position. My only contention here is that last night's debate confirmed what most of the elites were thinking about him and made his weaknesses far too evident to be glossed over, even by his fans. This confirmed the fears and suspicions about his abilities and will probably be the last straw. I saw in a blog post that Perry's numbers at Intrade were cut in half overnight, and they'd been pretty low for the last several weeks.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm well aware that his poll numbers took the ski slope after that remark. However, in the hands of a more capable politician, one able to carry a political tune, it was a recoverable position. My only contention here is that last night's debate confirmed what most of the elites were thinking about him and made his weaknesses far too evident to be glossed over, even by his fans. This confirmed the fears and suspicions about his abilities and will probably be the last straw. I saw in a blog post that Perry's numbers at Intrade were cut in half overnight, and they'd been pretty low for the last several weeks.

I think he's just boring. He's no Sarah Palin. She fucks up and it's like there was a massive worldwide conspiracy against her. Perry was like, yep, I stepped in it. That might be refreshingly honest, but the Republicans have too many refreshingly honest morons to choose from right now.

If Mitt Romney could spiff up his shtick a bit more, he could beat Obama. He needs the fiscally conservative version of "hope and change."

 

[intothewoods]

Saw this on Facebook and laughed. I figured I'd share with those of you who know more about politics than I do.

Cute.

 

[JMohegan]

I think he's just boring. He's no Sarah Palin. She fucks up and it's like there was a massive worldwide conspiracy against her. Perry was like, yep, I stepped in it. That might be refreshingly honest, but the Republicans have too many refreshingly honest morons to choose from right now.

If Mitt Romney could spiff up his shtick a bit more, he could beat Obama. He needs the fiscally conservative version of "hope and change."

"Corporations are people too." On video.

Thank you, Mitt Romney. Thank you most sincerely.

People are wising up as to what 'fiscally conservative' really means. Sure, Mr. Romney looks imposing compared to that Republican primary crowd - but wait for the general.

I was a hell of a lot more pessimistic until I spent time on the ground.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I thought with all the initial Perry hype: okay, he may get the nomination, but will people in a general REALLY trade in Obama for ANOTHER far-right Texan, even if he seems to have more gravitas than W?

Then, he started talking, and I wondered, could it be the water lines in the governor's mansion in Austin?? Or maybe it's like a team playing in a shitty conference, and then getting into the playoffs: duhhhh....what? Do Texas Republicans have no one to test them?

It does look like Romney, even though he is stuck at 25 percent.

But what seems so ironic is that, with GOP enthusiasm dwarfing that of the Dems, they can't find someone they like that is not an idiot. And if they DO settle on Romney by default, he seems to have a chilling effect on the base enthusiasm.

Focus this month should be on repealing the Bush tax cuts.

Tangible, specific, rather obvious to all except the Republican Powers That Be.

If it came from the grassroots it would be a good rallying cry. It has to be tied explicitly to income inequality.

 

[intothewoods]

What the hell? I posted earlier and it's not here!

Oh, hell, I can't remember now.

In brief, I don't think Romney will win because Romney is meh and Obama runs a good campaign. But there is an opening and the right candidate could have a shot, that's all I was suggesting. If Romney could be more likeable and less Romney-like.

 

[JMohegan]

What the hell? I posted earlier and it's not here!

Oh, hell, I can't remember now.

In brief, I don't think Romney will win because Romney is meh and Obama runs a good campaign. But there is an opening and the right candidate could have a shot, that's all I was suggesting. If Romney could be more likeable and less Romney-like.

There's a huge opening! The economy sucks, and when that's true, right or wrong, incumbents get ousted.

I think Huntsman could win, in a landslide. But of course, the Republican dilemma is the primaries.

 

[intothewoods]

There's a huge opening! The economy sucks, and when that's true, right or wrong, incumbents get ousted.

I think Huntsman could win, in a landslide. But of course, the Republican dilemma is the primaries.

I like Huntsman too.

The other point I wanted to make is that I think this is 2004. Is this super obvious and am I an idiot for not getting it sooner? Everyone hated Bush. Anyone but Bush was the mantra, yada yada. Weak opposition candidate. In the end, Bush (well, Rove) knew how to run a damn good campaign. Same with Team Obama. I think it will be relatively close and every Obama-hater will be super depressed the day after the election.

 

[JMohegan]

I like Huntsman too.

The other point I wanted to make is that I think this is 2004. Is this super obvious and am I an idiot for not getting it sooner? Everyone hated Bush. Anyone but Bush was the mantra, yada yada. Weak opposition candidate. In the end, Bush (well, Rove) knew how to run a damn good campaign. Same with Team Obama. I think it will be relatively close and every Obama-hater will be super depressed the day after the election.

I still don't understand how this country re-elected a man who launched an unprovoked invasion of another country. Resulting in trillions in debt and incalculable loss in blood. Literally, I am unable to grasp how that gets a pass in anyone's head. People actually walked into the booth and pulled the lever for that guy. Jesus christ.

There's nothing you can say about it except - Democracy. What the fuck. Churchill was right, it's the worst plan except all others that have ever been tried.

 

[intothewoods]

I still don't understand how this country re-elected a man who launched an unprovoked invasion of another country. Resulting in trillions in debt and incalculable loss in blood. Literally, I am unable to grasp how that gets a pass in anyone's head. People actually walked into the booth and pulled the lever for that guy. Jesus christ.

There's nothing you can say about it except - Democracy. What the fuck. Churchill was right, it's the worst plan except all others that have ever been tried.

Oh, just recently I was having dinner with some former colleagues. Old school Republicans and, uh, just plain old. And they said something like, oh well, Bush was terrible and Iraq was a mistake, but who knew that in 2004? Ummmm wtf?

 

[JMohegan]

Oh, just recently I was having dinner with some former colleagues. Old school Republicans and, uh, just plain old. And they said something like, oh well, Bush was terrible and Iraq was a mistake, but who knew that in 2004? Ummmm wtf?

Few things piss me off more than revisionist history.

Word has it that Gingrich is surging. If he consolidates the no-Romney vote, he'll be the nominee. And then the revisionists will no doubt be working overtime toward a favorable spin!

 

[midwestyankee]

Few things piss me off more than revisionist history.

Word has it that Gingrich is surging. If he consolidates the no-Romney vote, he'll be the nominee. And then the revisionists will no doubt be working overtime toward a favorable spin!

Gingrich has almost no money and practically no presence or organization in any of the key primary states. In general approval ratings, Romney meets with approval from well over 70% of Republicans. I am pretty well convinced that most of the "surging" by the non-Romney candidates comes from media emphasis placed on them in hopes of extending the sense of drama - and thus ratings for the debates and political talk/commentary shows.

 

[midwestyankee]

Almost cross-posted this to What Made You Smile

The Obama Campaign Christmas Store

The commentary on certain items is priceless.

 

[Netzach]

It's not gonna be Newt.

You're not going to like my reasoning but it's this:

Tall guy with cheekbones versus tall guy with cheekbones.


Forgetting your lines is unforgivable, the fact that the lines are batshit insane to begin with gets nary a mention? I guess it's too obvious.

 

[Keroin]

During my recent visit south of the border, I tuned in to a number of talk radio programs. Most had some kind of political banter going on. (The others were mostly religious...I was in Texas, after all).

Observations?

This 'liberal media' I keep hearing the right complaining about...where is it? It's not in west Texas, it's not in Nevada, and it's not in Washington state. About the closest thing I could find to a left-leaning radio program was a science show.

Also, based on what I heard, why would any sane, semi-intelligent person vote Republican? Honestly, I've heard more intelligent debate take place on elementary school playgrounds. One show was busy defending Cain in the wake of the sexual harassment allegations and part of their reasoning for supporting him was "at least he's a 'real' Christian, unlike Obama". Huh?

Another talk show host went on and on about Michelle Obama (wish I could remember the silly nickname he had for her...it made no sense). He seemed particularly offended by her attempts to encourage healthy eating. I say again...huh?

One of the more religious political shows was very militant about "defending the institution of marriage". Of course they were referring to gay marriage but apparently didn't seem to care less about how heterosexuals treat said institution. And...defending? I live in a country where gay marriage is legal. Hasn't affected the institution one bit as far as I can see.

Mind you, we are a step away from communism and all.

I think Netz is right about the nice cheekbones, sadly.

Anyway, just some observations. Obama may not be perfect but he seems relatively intelligent.

Also, if you're looking for work, might I suggest a move to west Texas. They are hiring EVERYWHERE there and apparently the pay is decent. Of course, it means you have to live in west Texas but...

 

[intothewoods]

During my recent visit south of the border, I tuned in to a number of talk radio programs. Most had some kind of political banter going on. (The others were mostly religious...I was in Texas, after all).

Observations?

This 'liberal media' I keep hearing the right complaining about...where is it? It's not in west Texas, it's not in Nevada, and it's not in Washington state. About the closest thing I could find to a left-leaning radio program was a science show.

Also, based on what I heard, why would any sane, semi-intelligent person vote Republican? Honestly, I've heard more intelligent debate take place on elementary school playgrounds. One show was busy defending Cain in the wake of the sexual harassment allegations and part of their reasoning for supporting him was "at least he's a 'real' Christian, unlike Obama". Huh?

Another talk show host went on and on about Michelle Obama (wish I could remember the silly nickname he had for her...it made no sense). He seemed particularly offended by her attempts to encourage healthy eating. I say again...huh?

One of the more religious political shows was very militant about "defending the institution of marriage". Of course they were referring to gay marriage but apparently didn't seem to care less about how heterosexuals treat said institution. And...defending? I live in a country where gay marriage is legal. Hasn't affected the institution one bit as far as I can see.

Mind you, we are a step away from communism and all.

I think Netz is right about the nice cheekbones, sadly.

Anyway, just some observations. Obama may not be perfect but he seems relatively intelligent.

Also, if you're looking for work, might I suggest a move to west Texas. They are hiring EVERYWHERE there and apparently the pay is decent. Of course, it means you have to live in west Texas but...

A Canadian in West Texas! Fun. To be fair to the right wing types, the faggy, latte sipping media elites live in northeastern U.S. You are protected from all that in Tayyyyyhaaas.

So, what are the thriving industries in West Texas?

 

[Keroin]

A Canadian in West Texas! Fun. To be fair to the right wing types, the faggy, latte sipping media elites live in northeastern U.S. You are protected from all that in Tayyyyyhaaas.

So, what are the thriving industries in West Texas?

Well, the oil is booming and thus everything around the oil is booming. I saw 'help wanted' signs everywhere and there were even businesses advertising on the radio for employees. The only specific I can call to mind is a trucking company - they even said that they would help you get your necessary license if you didn't have it.

And on the plane ride between Denver and Texas, the fellow next to me was a Canuck from Alberta. He was managing a rig, 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off and making enough money to fly home every 4 weeks.

It's not the prettiest part of the world, but if you were trying to pay off debt I could think of worse places to live.

*side note and totally unrelated: I am always amazed in the US at the number of people who don't take their shoes off in the house. Is this an American thing?

 

[intothewoods]

Well, the oil is booming and thus everything around the oil is booming. I saw 'help wanted' signs everywhere and there were even businesses advertising on the radio for employees. The only specific I can call to mind is a trucking company - they even said that they would help you get your necessary license if you didn't have it.

And on the plane ride between Denver and Texas, the fellow next to me was a Canuck from Alberta. He was managing a rig, 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off and making enough money to fly home every 4 weeks.

It's not the prettiest part of the world, but if you were trying to pay off debt I could think of worse places to live.

*side note and totally unrelated: I am always amazed in the US at the number of people who don't take their shoes off in the house. Is this an American thing?

Oh, right, oil. I think I'd rather be an ice road trucker. Sorry, my husband loves those damn shows.

Um, I think many Americans don't take their shoes off. We do because we learned at some point that it's unhealthy to track whatever's on your shoes all over your house, but I don't think every American got that memo. I didn't realize this was an American thing though. I thought most people in non-Asian countries didn't bother taking their shoes off.