U.S. politics isolation tank

[midwestyankee]

This could easily have been cross-posted to the What Made You Laugh Today thread but I'm being uncharacteristically frugal with my pixels today.

Supervillain or Newt?: The Game

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's elicited a great deal of creative response. Rick Perry, muse. He made a decent point the other night about federalism and states as the crucibles of democracy, but he says it in such a goofball way, that I can't take him seriously. Maybe it's Texas governor fatigue.



We shall see. He has his swagger back. Cool, aloof, professorial Obama swagger, but swagger.



It's so long until the election. I definitely am more optimistic than a few months ago. I actually could see Romney winning, if the economy stays mired (or that no-hope perception sticks) if he can craft an effective, tough narrative about what he did in the past and how it relates to what he believes now. He started to do that in the Iowa debate, but has so many flip flops that it has to be an aggressive part of his message.

If Newt gets the nod, Obama wins. Unless the GOP establishment continues to melt down and a third party effort emerges, like Bloomberg, who might well elect Newt by drawing moderates.

I hate to say it, but even that would be fun. Can you imagine a Newt presidency? The infighting! the turmoil! It would be a yuckfest, and would cripple the GOP for a decade!

http://jezebel.com/5868741/all-your-rick-perry-gay-sex-rumors-collected-in-one-handy-book

 

[JMohegan]

http://jezebel.com/5868741/all-your-rick-perry-gay-sex-rumors-collected-in-one-handy-book

Ahaha!

 

[JMohegan]

A fine showing for the Crazy Train. Keep it up, folks!

 

[intothewoods]

A fine showing for the Crazy Train. Keep it up, folks!

Chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-chug-a...

It's just too much fun.

p.s. long time no see, JM. How's it going?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

A fine showing for the Crazy Train. Keep it up, folks!

Now we'll see what the GOP establishment does! Spooked by Newt, we may see a lot of fresh money and endorsements flowing to Romney to STOP THE CRAZY.

I did notice that 86 percent of those voting in S.C. were over 40. I don't know that that means anything, except that this vote doesn't resemble the electorate; but we knew that, 'cause it's South freakin' Carolina.

What's interesting is that when either Newt or Mitt (and c'mon, have we widened the presidential first name list or what?) go off message, they implode, albeit in different ways. Newt implodes because his head is bursting with ideas, turbocharged with hubris, and Mitt implodes because he has a supremely patrician worldview in the mold of GHWB, and when he veers off message his contempt for the little people spills out.

Tonight was a good night for the Democratic party.

 

[JMohegan]

Chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-chug-a...

It's just too much fun.

p.s. long time no see, JM. How's it going?

I won quite a few bets tonight, things are great. And you?

Now we'll see what the GOP establishment does! Spooked by Newt, we may see a lot of fresh money and endorsements flowing to Romney to STOP THE CRAZY.

I did notice that 86 percent of those voting in S.C. were over 40. I don't know that that means anything, except that this vote doesn't resemble the electorate; but we knew that, 'cause it's South freakin' Carolina.

What's interesting is that when either Newt or Mitt (and c'mon, have we widened the presidential first name list or what?) go off message, they implode, albeit in different ways. Newt implodes because his head is bursting with ideas, turbocharged with hubris, and Mitt implodes because he has a supremely patrician worldview in the mold of GHWB, and when he veers off message his contempt for the little people spills out.

Tonight was a good night for the Democratic party.

Re the bold - it means young people are less likely than older folks to vote in primaries, and even less likely to vote Republican.

Re Mitt - I confess, the extent to which he's clueless about the way non-billionaires will react to his comments has surprised me. $374k in speaking fees = "not very much". Keep it up, big fella!

Re Newt - His lips sure must be worn out from all that dog whistlin' tonight.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Re the bold - it means young people are less likely than older folks to vote in primaries, and even less likely to vote Republican.

Re Mitt - I confess, the extent to which he's clueless about the way non-billionaires will react to his comments has surprised me. $374k in speaking fees = "not very much". Keep it up, big fella!

Re Newt - His lips sure must be worn out from all that dog whistlin' tonight.

Yeah, they didn't show at all. I wonder, in the general, if Obama's young first-timers will show again, frankly.

I, too, have been surprised by Mitt's surprise. I mean, he's been running for Prez, what, five years? Maybe he's just so far inside the club sauna he can't see the people clipping coupons and working three jobs a block away. My favorite was his exchange with Matt Lauer:



LAUER: When you said that we already have a leader who divides us with the bitter politics of envy, I’m curious about the word ‘envy.’ Did you suggest that anyone who questions the policies and practices of Wall Street and financial institutions, anyone who has questions about the distribution of wealth and power in this country, is envious? Is it about jealousy, or fairness?

ROMNEY: You know, I think it’s about envy. I think it’s about class warfare. When you have a president encouraging the idea of dividing America based on the 99 percent versus one percent — and those people who have been most successful will be in the one percent — you have opened up a whole new wave of approach in this country which is entirely inconsistent with the concept of one nation under God. The American people, I believe in the final analysis, will reject it.

LAUER: Yeah, but envy? Are there no fair questions about the distribution of wealth without it being seen as ‘envy,’ though?

ROMNEY: I think it’s fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms and discussions about tax policy and the like. But the president has made it part of his campaign rally. Everywhere he goes we hear him talking about millionaires and billionaires and executives and Wall Street. It’s a very envy-oriented, attack-oriented approach and I think it will fail.



Yes. "Quiet rooms." Hushed, paneled retreats where the decisions have usually been made, and always should be. Don't involve (gasp) the rabble in discussions about how the society is ordered, and who funds it, and in what amounts.

Such bad taste, and all that, you know.

How like Thurston Howell III is Mitt: "Heavens, Lovey! Obama says he attended Harvard, but he must be a Yale man!"

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, they didn't show at all. I wonder, in the general, if Obama's young first-timers will show again, frankly.

Yes, but not in the Republican primaries.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Yes, but not in the Republican primaries.

I hope so. That air of "we can change the world" has sorta dissipated.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I hope so. That air of "we can change the world" has sorta dissipated.

Not in my neck of the woods it hasn't. I've seen more and better-targeted activism since 08, more young people getting involved in grassroots leadership. The internet is a huge agent of change, which is one reason these shitty sopa pipa bills are being lobbied, in an attempt to stop that.

 

[JMohegan]

Yeah, they didn't show at all. I wonder, in the general, if Obama's young first-timers will show again, frankly.

I, too, have been surprised by Mitt's surprise. I mean, he's been running for Prez, what, five years? Maybe he's just so far inside the club sauna he can't see the people clipping coupons and working three jobs a block away.

FDR hadn't spent much time on the bread lines, but somehow he seemed to understand that he'd been handed advantages other people never got.

Yeah, Mitt's got Thurston Howell syndrome, no question.

As for the young people, I think it depends on the opposing candidate. It's not just a matter of who they want to win, but whether they'll be bothered to get off their asses to register & then get off their asses again to show up.

This is why we need a candidate who suggests crazy shit like turning black school kids into janitors and the death penalty for importing two ounces of pot.

But even if young folks are motivated, there's the hurdle of voter suppression attempts, currently kicking into high gear. My personal favorite: the Texas voter ID law that says your state-issued weapons license counts but your state-issued university student ID does not.

 

[intothewoods]

I won quite a few bets tonight, things are great. And you?

Things are good here too.

Not in my neck of the woods it hasn't. I've seen more and better-targeted activism since 08, more young people getting involved in grassroots leadership. The internet is a huge agent of change, which is one reason these shitty sopa pipa bills are being lobbied, in an attempt to stop that.

Yep, and I don't know that those folks will come out for Obama either.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Not in my neck of the woods it hasn't. I've seen more and better-targeted activism since 08, more young people getting involved in grassroots leadership. The internet is a huge agent of change, which is one reason these shitty sopa pipa bills are being lobbied, in an attempt to stop that.

Well, that's encouraging. That is not the case in my huge swath of the dark rolling fields of the Republic. At least not that I can see. And maybe that's the point, that I can't see it. I've followed the regional occupy folks, and it's been pretty small, and who knows if they will translate to votes anyway? But perhaps the activism is more online here.

FDR hadn't spent much time on the bread lines, but somehow he seemed to understand that he'd been handed advantages other people never got.

Yeah, Mitt's got Thurston Howell syndrome, no question.

As for the young people, I think it depends on the opposing candidate. It's not just a matter of who they want to win, but whether they'll be bothered to get off their asses to register & then get off their asses again to show up.

This is why we need a candidate who suggests crazy shit like turning black school kids into janitors and the death penalty for importing two ounces of pot.

But even if young folks are motivated, there's the hurdle of voter suppression attempts, currently kicking into high gear. My personal favorite: the Texas voter ID law that says your state-issued weapons license counts but your state-issued university student ID does not.

FDR was a coolster, though.

Oh yes. The crazier the better. Newt is an embarrassment of riches. If anyone can make the Dems turn out in a defensive posture, it's Mr. Child Labor Repeals. He'd fire up the obsessively-enraged-at-Obama vote, but completely alienate tae kwon do moms, and alienate the youth vote.

Why newt the best?

Realistically, can he win in Florida though? And when the Virginia returns come in, and everyone is reminded that he couldn't even GET ON THE BALLOT... well, that can't help.

There is a running debate over whether these GOP attacks on Mitt hurt him more now, and establish an image that will be hard to shake, or toughen him up, give him time to formulate responses, and let the arguments fizzle before the general. What do the BDSM pundits think?

 

[JMohegan]

Realistically, can he win in Florida though? And when the Virginia returns come in, and everyone is reminded that he couldn't even GET ON THE BALLOT... well, that can't help.

There is a running debate over whether these GOP attacks on Mitt hurt him more now, and establish an image that will be hard to shake, or toughen him up, give him time to formulate responses, and let the arguments fizzle before the general. What do the BDSM pundits think?

No, I don't think he'll take Florida. And of course Virginia is a hilarity. But he'll use both to feed his little guy vs. Big Money, indefatigable fighter thing. The guy's a master manipulator, really.

If Mitt gets the nomination, I don't think any theoretical toughening or fizzling of arguments will make a difference one way or the other. The right loathes Obama and the left doesn't perceive much ground between him and the right at the moment. The middle just wants a fucking job and stable housing market.

I'm not saying I think the President will necessarily lose reelection; I just don't think it matters much what Romney says or does.

How 'bout you?

 

[midwestyankee]

I go back and forth between thinking that Newt can't possibly win the nomination and wondering how much more Mitt can screw things up like he did last week. It boggles my mind that he had not prepared a decent response to the questions about how he and Bain made money together and on releasing his bleeping tax returns. Surely someone in that highly paid staff had an inkling that not everyone who votes in Republican primaries and caucuses makes a quarter mil or more. Right? And that, given his father's precedent-setting move to reveal 12 years of his tax returns for his run at the Presidency, surely some bozo on Mitt's staff would have figured out a way to release several years of returns without causing a seismic response in the base.

Should Newt win the nomination, Obama's staff will have a collective wet dream. And if Romney should win, they will spend a gazillion dollars reminding people about how Mitt made his millions by laying people off ("I like to fire people" and "corporations are people, my friend"). It's easy to say that the Occupy Movement hasn't yet had much impact, but consider how much more often we see discussions of income equality. They put that phrase and concept front of mind for a lot of people and Team Obama will play off that like Coltrane.

I don't mean to suggest that beating Romney will be easy, as it will not. But I don't think that a Romney victory in November is a foregone conclusion, either.

 

[JMohegan]

And that, given his father's precedent-setting move to reveal 12 years of his tax returns for his run at the Presidency, surely some bozo on Mitt's staff would have figured out a way to release several years of returns without causing a seismic response in the base.

I think he's worried about releasing them during the primaries because of tithing to the Mormon church. We'll find out tomorrow how much.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think he's worried about releasing them during the primaries because of tithing to the Mormon church. We'll find out tomorrow how much.

Ah, now that's an interesting point that I have not seen mentioned in any of the blogs I follow. If, as seems likely, Mitt gives more to the LDS church than most people make in a year, that might raise even more hackles from the base.

Putting popcorn on the list for the next run to Costco. We're gonna need a bigger bowl.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

No, I don't think he'll take Florida. And of course Virginia is a hilarity. But he'll use both to feed his little guy vs. Big Money, indefatigable fighter thing. The guy's a master manipulator, really.

If Mitt gets the nomination, I don't think any theoretical toughening or fizzling of arguments will make a difference one way or the other. The right loathes Obama and the left doesn't perceive much ground between him and the right at the moment. The middle just wants a fucking job and stable housing market.

I'm not saying I think the President will necessarily lose reelection; I just don't think it matters much what Romney says or does.

How 'bout you?

Newt makes me doubt. Just when I think, no fucking way... he comes back. I put it down to rage. Rage, rage, rage. The Ragin' Right (and isn't that a great school nickname?) wants someone to EMBODY THAT RAGE. In the past, that has always given way to the morning after, and the notion that well, I guess we wanna win. (Howard Dean comes to mind in 2004: he embodied the outrage the left felt toward W's policies, but in the end, the Dems went to the prom with the craggy non-screaming guy.)

Among the many extreme Right wingers I know, it's almost like they want their hatred of Obama and his policies vindicated and given a national stage so much, that they prefer it to political strategery. Or actually, I think they think if their grievances duke it out in a national heavyweight bout, of course the GOP would win: they just need a forceful, articulate enough spokesman. The primary is an audition for Rage Spokesman for the Self-Evident American Patriot Ideal.

If Mitt gets the nod, I do think it matters what he says and how he presents himself. Independents are not smitten with the Prez. If Mitt can present some kind of vaguely compassionate conservative practical get-stuff-done guy, and buy a can of Folksy on Amazon, he can give them an excuse to give him a chance.

Should Newt win the nomination, Obama's staff will have a collective wet dream. And if Romney should win, they will spend a gazillion dollars reminding people about how Mitt made his millions by laying people off ("I like to fire people" and "corporations are people, my friend"). It's easy to say that the Occupy Movement hasn't yet had much impact, but consider how much more often we see discussions of income equality. They put that phrase and concept front of mind for a lot of people and Team Obama will play off that like Coltrane.

I don't mean to suggest that beating Romney will be easy, as it will not. But I don't think that a Romney victory in November is a foregone conclusion, either.

Yeah, Occupy has had an impact on the discussion. Given that, it will be interesting to see how this "politics of envy" socialism claptrap plays with average folks. Things are so bad for so many that it may slough off.

Looks like the election will come down to a contest between "Fairness for the Middle Class" vs. "Socialists putting Capitalism on Trial."

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

If you were Obama's media chief, what one ad would you want to air against Mitt? Against Newt?

If you were Mitt or Newt, what would be your primo negative ad against Obama?


Explain in complete sentences. Justify your responses and give specific examples (20 points).

 

[JMohegan]

If Mitt gets the nod, I do think it matters what he says and how he presents himself. Independents are not smitten with the Prez. If Mitt can present some kind of vaguely compassionate conservative practical get-stuff-done guy, and buy a can of Folksy on Amazon, he can give them an excuse to give him a chance.

Mitt's already presenting that vaguely compassionate conservative practical get-stuff-done guy thing. And he can't do folksy. He's tried.

He is what he is and everybody already knows what he is, that's my point. Mitt v. Obama comes down to what the economy & Obama do between now and November.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm having difficulty restraining an inordinate glee at the latest Republican polls.

Florida: Gingrich +9.
National: virtual tie.

Holy fucking god.

 

[midwestyankee]

So, JMo, you were right about the Mittster's tithing. He gave about $7 mil to the LDS church over the last couple of years and paid out about $4 mil in income taxes.

Mitt is the personal embodiment of the argument that the taxation system in this country is hugely skewed for the benefit of the very wealthy. I don't think O has the cajones to do it, but if he were to campaign on a platform that included a drastic simplification of the tax code such that Mitt and you and I were all paying roughly the same percentage of our income (from all sources) then I think he'd cut the Repubs off a the knees.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm having difficulty restraining an inordinate glee at the latest Republican polls.

Florida: Gingrich +9.
National: virtual tie.

Holy fucking god.

Liberals are AFRAID of Ging...wait. Glee?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Obama comes down to what the economy & Obama do between now and November.

yes-- Mitt aside, Obama is running against himself. He has to sell himself to the democrats and the 99%ers. And he could lose.