U.S. politics isolation tank

[mmarfox]

If you don't want to talk about the fiscal issues, then sure.

For the other subject, look at it like this; when there is a void, or space that is now vacant within society, there is some group or institution that will seek to fill that niche. Churches, community groups, shelters, and other non-profits that are supported by the local people would most likely fill this void.

It is natural to want to help, and I am not advocating putting people out who truly need help, but this needs to be more on a local level. The aforementioned social institutions would be logical substitutes for government aid, which becomes inefficient and ineffective the larger the program becomes.

It is extreme, and like anything drastic, it takes time to adjust to, but it would happen. This is society, a part of human nature, finding it's natural balance to sustain itself.

 

[midwestyankee]

If you don't want to talk about the fiscal issues, then sure.

For the other subject, look at it like this; when there is a void, or space that is now vacant within society, there is some group or institution that will seek to fill that niche. Churches, community groups, shelters, and other non-profits that are supported by the local people would most likely fill this void.

It is natural to want to help, and I am not advocating putting people out who truly need help, but this needs to be more on a local level. The aforementioned social institutions would be logical substitutes for government aid, which becomes inefficient and ineffective the larger the program becomes.

It is extreme, and like anything drastic, it takes time to adjust to, but it would happen. This is society, a part of human nature, finding it's natural balance to sustain itself.

Nothing is stopping the groups you mention from generating far more help for the poor than they now offer other than their own capacity. What makes you think that eliminating governmental assistance for the poor will somehow enable these social institutions to generate more help than they are now giving? Help me understand how this would work in practical terms involving the real world in which we live.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Ahhh, Rick Santorum rides the far-right social bus from Colorado to Minnesota, Newt vows to stick it out to the convention, and Romney is too unenraged and reflexively accomodating to love.

I think if the Prez can work out a solution on the birth control wackiness, he's had a great couple of weeks.

 

[midwestyankee]

Ahhh, Rick Santorum rides the far-right social bus from Colorado to Minnesota, Newt vows to stick it out to the convention, and Romney is too unenraged and reflexively accomodating to love.

I think if the Prez can work out a solution on the birth control wackiness, he's had a great couple of weeks.

When something like 90% of practicing Catholics are, at worst, ambivalent about the use of contraception and, at best are users thereof, this whole flap seems manufactured to me.

And what Republican in his right mind thinks that Big Pharma is liking the idea of losing customers?

 

[JMohegan]

Imagine if we had American imams making videos to publicize criticism of major healthcare legislation in this country. And politicians backing them up by manufacturing outrage about an alleged war on religion.

These hypocritical sanctimonious misogynistic pricks piss me off. Even though it would be great if the douchebag in the sweater vest got the Republican nod, it would be tough to celebrate or even laugh about it because really, what the fuck is the matter with people in this country?

And where the hell is Netzach? This crap's going down in her back down, for crying out loud.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

When something like 90% of practicing Catholics are, at worst, ambivalent about the use of contraception and, at best are users thereof, this whole flap seems manufactured to me.

And what Republican in his right mind thinks that Big Pharma is liking the idea of losing customers?

I completely agree. It is manufactured, and the latest attempt to try to poke the frothing base, while convincing Catholics that the Dems are coming to turn churches into abortion clinics. But it was taking over the narrative, so best to address it and make it go away. They did that today, for the most part. Like denying oxygen to a fire. Joe Biden should have told them that this would be a sell with working-class Catholics, and they coulda worked it out beforehand.

Imagine if we had American imams making videos to publicize criticism of major healthcare legislation in this country. And politicians backing them up by manufacturing outrage about an alleged war on religion.

These hypocritical sanctimonious misogynistic pricks piss me off. Even though it would be great if the douchebag in the sweater vest got the Republican nod, it would be tough to celebrate or even laugh about it because really, what the fuck is the matter with people in this country?

And where the hell is Netzach? This crap's going down in her back down, for crying out loud.

Yes. But it is fun to see the right-wing so marginalize themselves that they are driving themselves off a cliff. How much farther right can they go, and how much more rope do they need to hang themselves? Especially with the demographic trends in the U.S., this lurching right is just not going to work, without a constant rotating boogeyman (they really need a new USSR, and might get one in China or Iran. Terrorism certainly helped them mask their lack of ideas). If the Dems were not such morons, it wouldn't be a contest.

 

[midwestyankee]

I completely agree. It is manufactured, and the latest attempt to try to poke the frothing base, while convincing Catholics that the Dems are coming to turn churches into abortion clinics. But it was taking over the narrative, so best to address it and make it go away. They did that today, for the most part. Like denying oxygen to a fire. Joe Biden should have told them that this would be a sell with working-class Catholics, and they coulda worked it out beforehand.

I wonder to what extent this was a mistake and to what extent it was another case of Obama offering up a nice bit of rope to the opposition to see if their noose-tying skills are in order. Now he has a week or more worth of video clips of Republicans vowing that they'll keep the government from providing cheap birth control to women. Imagine the power of a couple of those clips aimed at young women next fall.

Yes. But it is fun to see the right-wing so marginalize themselves that they are driving themselves off a cliff. How much farther right can they go, and how much more rope do they need to hang themselves? Especially with the demographic trends in the U.S., this lurching right is just not going to work, without a constant rotating boogeyman (they really need a new USSR, and might get one in China or Iran. Terrorism certainly helped them mask their lack of ideas). If the Dems were not such morons, it wouldn't be a contest.

This is what it takes to lose a presidential race in a year when the state of the economy makes it at least a tossup whether the incumbent can plan to keep his own drapes in place.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Help me understand how this would work in practical terms involving the real world in which we live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW9RWciHqbY#t=00m26s

 

[JMohegan]

http://www.licksantorum.net/

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

This is what it takes to lose a presidential race in a year when the state of the economy makes it at least a tossup whether the incumbent can plan to keep his own drapes in place.

The base wants social red meat, the base gets social red meat!

[That's it. Keep talking about how women shouldn't work or use birth control. And more Satan talk please!]

They've got their rage goggles on. I saw a poll somewhere that said now only 19 percent say electability is most important in a nominee...

http://www.licksantorum.net/

So much creativity will be unleashed by Father Vest-aments.

 

[intothewoods]

Who wants to stay up all night and wait for the count in Michigan??


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Yeah right.

On another note, fuck you, Rick Santorum.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

On another note, fuck you, Rick Santorum.

Aw, c'mon, itw, he's one of the 17th century's most intriguing people!


David Brooks laments the Republicans' ideological purge.

 

[JMohegan]

How the hell is Rush Limbaugh still employed?

Free speech, sure, I'm for it, but who's still paying to broadcast his misogynistic blather?

I'm asking a real question. Who are his advertisers? Anyone know?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

How the hell is Rush Limbaugh still employed?

Free speech, sure, I'm for it, but who's still paying to broadcast his misogynistic blather?

I'm asking a real question. Who are his advertisers? Anyone know?

Well, no longer sleep number beds, as of today. Other than that I can't say. I just know that if you are Joe Teapack in this country, you listen to Rush. I have a right wing evangelical coworker whose friends are REALLY BOTHERED that he DOESN'T listen to Rush. It's his little form of rebellion.

 

[midwestyankee]

How the hell is Rush Limbaugh still employed?

Free speech, sure, I'm for it, but who's still paying to broadcast his misogynistic blather?

I'm asking a real question. Who are his advertisers? Anyone know?

I've never listened to his show live - only in clips posted here or there in blogs - so I have never heard any of the commercials. And honestly, I don't even want to have my pixels excited by the pixels on any website that would give me the necessary information. So, like you, I'm curious about his advertisers and I'd thoroughly enjoy boycotting one or more if they happen to be folks I normally buy from.

 

[intothewoods]

How the hell is Rush Limbaugh still employed?

Free speech, sure, I'm for it, but who's still paying to broadcast his misogynistic blather?

I'm asking a real question. Who are his advertisers? Anyone know?

Watching Bill Maher from last night --

I thought this election was supposed to be about the economy, but the economy started getting better. So Republicans went to plan B: calling women whores.

 

[midwestyankee]

Watching Bill Maher from last night --

I thought this election was supposed to be about the economy, but the economy started getting better. So Republicans went to plan B: calling women whores.

Not all of them (the women, that is). They're only calling whores that (possibly large) portion of women who think it's important to have control of their bodies. Note the words of Joshua Genig, a Lutheran pastor:

"Who is speaking up for the mothers who, under HHS mandate, have been falsely coerced into feeling that to be a woman means to have “control” of their own bodies?" (source)

I find this whole episode rather amusing in its very transparent political nature. The same basic rule has been law in several states for several years and yet there has been no hue and cry about it until it could be hung on a President who is a Democrat. Imagine that.

 

[JMohegan]

Well, no longer sleep number beds, as of today. Other than that I can't say. I just know that if you are Joe Teapack in this country, you listen to Rush. I have a right wing evangelical coworker whose friends are REALLY BOTHERED that he DOESN'T listen to Rush. It's his little form of rebellion.

Your friend needs new friends. Seriously.

I've never listened to his show live - only in clips posted here or there in blogs - so I have never heard any of the commercials. And honestly, I don't even want to have my pixels excited by the pixels on any website that would give me the necessary information. So, like you, I'm curious about his advertisers and I'd thoroughly enjoy boycotting one or more if they happen to be folks I normally buy from.

I look at Ms. Fluke and think: Smart, poised, brave, articulate, lovely. That could be my niece.

And I want to punch Limbaugh in his fat fucking face.

This is what I genuinely don't get. Don't his listeners have female relatives or friends? How do they justify that shit?

Watching Bill Maher from last night --

I thought this election was supposed to be about the economy, but the economy started getting better. So Republicans went to plan B: calling women whores.

I don't watch Maher, so it's possible I'm missing something here, but I disagree with the gist of that comment.

I think establishment Republicans (Romney, Christie, Boehner, Rubio, etc.) are hell pissed at the direction the national debate's taken. I blame the sweater vest douche and the media, right & left, that feeds him.

 

[intothewoods]

Your friend needs new friends. Seriously.


I look at Ms. Fluke and think: Smart, poised, brave, articulate, lovely. That could be my niece.

And I want to punch Limbaugh in his fat fucking face.

This is what I genuinely don't get. Don't his listeners have female relatives or friends? How do they justify that shit?


I don't watch Maher, so it's possible I'm missing something here, but I disagree with the gist of that comment.

I think establishment Republicans (Romney, Christie, Boehner, Rubio, etc.) are hell pissed at the direction the national debate's taken. I blame the sweater vest douche and the media, right & left, that feeds him.

He's a comedian and this was part of his opening monologue. I usually find his monologue jokes kind of dull, but I watch for the roundtable discussion on the show. Anyway, I liked this joke becaues while not accurate for all Republicans, it's pretty apt for the Christian fundy extreme right. When all else fails, call the women whores and the queers fags.

As to Rush and his female audience, I'm sure it's relatively small but there are conservative women out there who think unmarried women who have sex are sluts and whores. I've met a few, but it's thankfully been a while. And I think the thinking is also that it was unseemly for her to discuss her birth control needs before Congress.

 

[JMohegan]

He's a comedian and this was part of his opening monologue. I usually find his monologue jokes kind of dull, but I watch for the roundtable discussion on the show. Anyway, I liked this joke becaues while not accurate for all Republicans, it's pretty apt for the Christian fundy extreme right. When all else fails, call the women whores and the queers fags.

As to Rush and his female audience, I'm sure it's relatively small but there are conservative women out there who think unmarried women who have sex are sluts and whores. I've met a few, but it's thankfully been a while. And I think the thinking is also that it was unseemly for her to discuss her birth control needs before Congress.

No, I meant that I don't understand how men (who have female relatives and/or friends they care about) can justify support for Limbaugh in the wake of his misogynistic rants.

But I guess it's the same answer - they really DO think she's a slut, her parents should be embarrassed, she's so disgusting she deserves the "let us all watch" taunts, etc.

I wish RJMasters were here. He was a Limbaugh fan, as I recall, with daughters. I'd like to know what he thinks about Limbaugh's treatment of Ms. Fluke. Whether he finds it indefensible.

 

[intothewoods]

No, I meant that I don't understand how men (who have female relatives and/or friends they care about) can justify support for Limbaugh in the wake of his misogynistic rants.

But I guess it's the same answer - they really DO think she's a slut, her parents should be embarrassed, she's so disgusting she deserves the "let us all watch" taunts, etc.

I wish RJMasters were here. He was a Limbaugh fan, as I recall, with daughters. I'd like to know what he thinks about Limbaugh's treatment of Ms. Fluke. Whether he finds it indefensible.

Yeah, like how dare she confront us with the fact that women have sex -- our daughters, sisters, etc.

 

[JMohegan]

Yeah, like how dare she confront us with the fact that women have sex -- our daughters, sisters, etc.

Ah. Well, loathsome though the Limbaugh crowd may be, they're doing an awfully good job galvanizing their opponents in an otherwise lackluster election year. Perhaps even more than Virginia's Wannabe Vagina-Probing General Assembly, and that's saying something right there.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What I am finding is that conservatives don't feel empathy for people they don't know, or for groups of which they are not a part.

Some Republican senator made a Brave Stand recently and came out for GLBT equality-- BECAUSE her nephew is gay, she has learned, and she wants him to be happy.

The happiness of hundreds of thousands of people is abstract and meaningless but the happiness of ONE person that she knows-- that's what it took for her to get it.

It's baffling and infuriating, but it is what it is.

Equally I am seeing conservatives denounce Limbaugh at last-- because they have a daughter the age of Sandra Fluke, and he's really gone too far this time.

The truth is, he's gone this far over and over, since the beginning of his career. And you'd think that it wouldn't matter how old someone's daughter is. or even if someone had a son instead.

But hey-- if that's what it takes, then I'm happy. That's how the conservative mind works.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Your friend needs new friends. Seriously.

He has a lot of friends, but I suppose we mostly amass friends from where we hang out, and he hangs out at his church a lot. He has that dichotomy of a lot of good evangelicals: So much good along with the bad. He is a profoundly good person, volunteers tons of his time and money to help those in need, and does mission trips to dig wells in poor villages - all informed by his faith. But his political views start with the idea that there is no gray area in life (!) and the world is divided into the godly and ungodly, saved and unsaved, and guess what that translates into politically? Santorum was his dream candidate 6 months ago.

What I am finding is that conservatives don't feel empathy for people they don't know, or for groups of which they are not a part.

Some Republican senator made a Brave Stand recently and came out for GLBT equality-- BECAUSE her nephew is gay, she has learned, and she wants him to be happy.

The happiness of hundreds of thousands of people is abstract and meaningless but the happiness of ONE person that she knows-- that's what it took for her to get it.

It's baffling and infuriating, but it is what it is.

I'm also vexed at the conservatives who tried so vehemently to harm LGBT people with their policies suddenly changing step: because it affects them PERSONALLY.

Exhibit A.

Ken Mehlman, too.

You'da thunk Laura coulda said something to W during those eight years, as well.

I'm with you, though: as long as the GOP wants to hitch its fortunes to demographically suicidal (and indefensible) positions like hostility to Hispanics and to marriage equality, then I say, go for it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well it all feels real personal to me today, I just want to curl up and cry.