U.S. politics isolation tank

[Netzach]

There's always two sides to the coin. Complain all you want when cops mess up.

Duy Ngo. Look him up.

He was a cop.

 

[Netzach]

What are you advocating anyway? Citizens STFU? Is that how it should work? Armed law beyond dissection criticism and second guessing because these guys VOLUNTARILY sign up to do a dangerous job?

 

[DVS]

What are you advocating anyway? Citizens STFU? Is that how it should work? Armed law beyond dissection criticism and second guessing because these guys VOLUNTARILY sign up to do a dangerous job?

Don't take this too far. I'm just saying that criminals have gotten smart through the years. They know people don't want to give up their privacy rights. They use those privacy rights to hide their guns and their drugs and their stolen property. These people can be right beside you at any given time. You could be their next crime victim or maybe caught in some stupid gang shoot out. If police had more power to check suspicious people, that would be much less likely to happen.

Sure, right now it might just happen in certain parts of the city, and if you stay out of those areas, you are safe. That's not always going to be the case. The more they feel secure within their privacy, the bolder they will get. The more you want to safeguard your privacy, the more you are empowering the criminal's secrecy. If you're OK with that, then fine.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Contrary to what you might think, I haven't forgotten that. I didn't get into trouble, I was wrongfully accused by a minority I supervised, then convicted and fired by a company that was scared shitless that the EEOC was going to come after them if they didn't fire somebody for making racist comments. Nobody ever verified that there were any racist comments made. Reverse racism isn't a firing offense because no minority is offended.

Well, I guess that's as close as we will get to an explanation. But going by what you've been saying here, I think there's either something you're not saying, or else something that will forever whizz right over your head.

I don't understand your connection with that and the above commented post. Dare I ask you to clarify?

I would if I thought I could. I cannot think of words to say that you will comprehend. Or else you wouldn't have to ask.

Dude-- Is this new meds, or you've been missing them? Or SADS?

 

[DVS]

Well, I guess that's as close as we will get to an explanation. But going by what you've been saying here, I think there's either something you're not saying, or else something that will forever whizz right over your head. I would if I thought I could. I cannot think of words to say that you will comprehend. Or else you wouldn't have to ask.

Dude-- Is this new meds, or you've been missing them? Or SADS?

What the fuck are you saying here, Stella? Are you insinuating that I'm a racist and covering up the true story to save face? If that's the case, then you can just fuck off. How's that for new meds?

 

[BiBunny]

Stella's not the only one wondering what's up, DVS. Are you ok?

I'm not trolling; I'm actually concerned.

 

[Stella_Omega]

same here, I am, honestly concerned.

 

[DVS]

Stella's not the only one wondering what's up, DVS. Are you ok?

I'm not trolling; I'm actually concerned.

I'm OK with you, BB. A little confrontation back and forth is OK. You didn't insinuate racism.

 

[DVS]

same here, I am, honestly concerned.

Then, be concerned. Mysterious isn't working for me? Maybe I should come out as the racist you think I am. Would that make you happy? That's so pitiful.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm OK with you, BB. A little confrontation back and forth is OK. You didn't insinuate racism.

You don't seem yourself these days, my dear. I just wanted to see how you were feeling.

 

[Stella_Omega]

it's true, this is not the DVS I used to know.

 

[DVS]

You don't seem yourself these days, my dear. I just wanted to see how you were feeling.

Don't worry. I'm OK. We all have our problems.

 

[DVS]

it's true, this is not the DVS I used to know.

You stop just short of calling me a lying racist and you wonder why I'm acting differently. I'm shocked! LOL. Actually, Stella, there's a lot to me that you don't know...and never will.

 

[Netzach]

Don't take this too far. I'm just saying that criminals have gotten smart through the years. They know people don't want to give up their privacy rights. They use those privacy rights to hide their guns and their drugs and their stolen property. These people can be right beside you at any given time. You could be their next crime victim or maybe caught in some stupid gang shoot out. If police had more power to check suspicious people, that would be much less likely to happen.

Sure, right now it might just happen in certain parts of the city, and if you stay out of those areas, you are safe. That's not always going to be the case. The more they feel secure within their privacy, the bolder they will get. The more you want to safeguard your privacy, the more you are empowering the criminal's secrecy. If you're OK with that, then fine.

Yeah I am. They don't have to do anything secretly in a culture that collectively doesn't care.

I don't agree that increased stops and frisks are going to save anyone. I don't think that most violent crime happens in hidden subterfuge at all.

I've lived in some pretty marginal neighborhoods. You rely on your awareness, not on cops, who are NOT COMING.

Because considering that in "those neighborhoods" you have to call a cop 189832938 times before they respond to a child abandoned in a car, the idea that they're going to give a rat's ass about anybody being safe is laughable.*

*real sorta 'hood experience

The other thing is that we've had better privacy laws in the past, and any non-idiot criminal has always known how to disappear, hide in aliases, relocate, shake people down, exploit their own immigrant group, and whatever they do. It's not some new thing. And yet, I'd argue less reported violent crime prior to the erosion of privacy laws. This argument always gets brought out, and yet we're not getting safer as we're getting more monitored.

 

[DVS]

Yeah I am. They don't have to do anything secretly in a culture that collectively doesn't care.

I don't agree that increased stops and frisks are going to save anyone. I don't think that most violent crime happens in hidden subterfuge at all.

I've lived in some pretty marginal neighborhoods. You rely on your awareness, not on cops, who are NOT COMING.

Because considering that in "those neighborhoods" you have to call a cop 189832938 times before they respond to a child abandoned in a car, the idea that they're going to give a rat's ass about anybody being safe is laughable.*

*real sorta 'hood experience

The other thing is that we've had better privacy laws in the past, and any non-idiot criminal has always known how to disappear, hide in aliases, relocate, shake people down, exploit their own immigrant group, and whatever they do. It's not some new thing. And yet, I'd argue less reported violent crime prior to the erosion of privacy laws. This argument always gets brought out, and yet we're not getting safer as we're getting more monitored.

Well, if you're going to be of that opinion about things, we don't need to continue our talk. It seems that you've already decided what's true and what isn't. You are totally within your rights to feel that way but because we are at near polar opposites, we will never get past agreeing to disagree. Thanks for the conversation, just the same.

 

[Ropebunny]

Woah! Can we all just chill a bit maybe?

The beauty of all this is no one opinion can be right or wrong. It's just that, opinion. We all have one, like we all have asses. And everyone's ass is shitty some of the time too!

I'm not gonna pick out any individual posts to comment on, coz I really don't feel my opinion on this topic is gonna be helpful to anyone, but I'd like to see us treat each other with a bit more respect. That's one of the things I like the most about participating here; I feel comfortable speaking my mind because even if others don't agree they respect my right to disagree. When someone is acting like a douche they get called on it, and when someone realises they are being a douche they call themselves out on it. If only the rest of the world could be this way....

This is a hard time of the year for a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. I can't help but feel like maybe things are getting blown out of proportion a bit, yeah?

 

[DVS]

Woah! Can we all just chill a bit maybe?

The beauty of all this is no one opinion can be right or wrong. It's just that, opinion. We all have one, like we all have asses. And everyone's ass is shitty some of the time too!

I'm not gonna pick out any individual posts to comment on, coz I really don't feel my opinion on this topic is gonna be helpful to anyone, but I'd like to see us treat each other with a bit more respect. That's one of the things I like the most about participating here; I feel comfortable speaking my mind because even if others don't agree they respect my right to disagree. When someone is acting like a douche they get called on it, and when someone realises they are being a douche they call themselves out on it. If only the rest of the world could be this way....

This is a hard time of the year for a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. I can't help but feel like maybe things are getting blown out of proportion a bit, yeah?

There's no problem. I just realized that we'd never come to a conclusion we both would agree with. I'm not one to continue a discussion when there is no chance of ever changing someone's mind, even if it's mine. I often will say to someone that we will just have to agree to disagree because we both are on opposite sides of the discussion.

This is why I try to never get involved in a political discussion thread here, if I can keep from it. I just saw a post I thought I wanted to comment on and you saw the result. I don't back down from my views and I don't expect someone else to either. But, because we don't back down, we could go on for ever countering each other's posts and that's just not going to get anybody anywhere. We believe what we believe and so be it.

I will go just so far with a political discussion, before I'll just give it up. Those kinds of talks will really never get beyond what each person believes is the truth. And while some people might assume something new can come from these discussions, I rarely think it can. I strongly believe what I do and I respect others to strongly believe what they do. I don't have to agree though and that's where we agree to disagree.

The sad reality of all of this is that each of us believe our opinion is the correct one. The beauty of it is we respect each other's right to have a differing opinion.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I don't have a problem with officers patrolling. I do have a problem with someone who's minding their own business and not bothering anyone being stopped, made to show ID, questioned, and expected to justify their presence in a public area. That's a slope that gets slippery in a goddamned hurry.

Yeah I am. They don't have to do anything secretly in a culture that collectively doesn't care.

I don't agree that increased stops and frisks are going to save anyone. I don't think that most violent crime happens in hidden subterfuge at all.

I've lived in some pretty marginal neighborhoods. You rely on your awareness, not on cops, who are NOT COMING.

Because considering that in "those neighborhoods" you have to call a cop 189832938 times before they respond to a child abandoned in a car, the idea that they're going to give a rat's ass about anybody being safe is laughable.*

*real sorta 'hood experience

The other thing is that we've had better privacy laws in the past, and any non-idiot criminal has always known how to disappear, hide in aliases, relocate, shake people down, exploit their own immigrant group, and whatever they do. It's not some new thing. And yet, I'd argue less reported violent crime prior to the erosion of privacy laws. This argument always gets brought out, and yet we're not getting safer as we're getting more monitored.

Thanks for saving me a lot of typing here.
The bolded parts especially just can not be repeated often enough.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I see nothing wrong with this. And from the point of view of police, it shouldn't be an issue for anybody that's not doing anything wrong. It's as simple as that. Sure, it might be seen by some as infringing their rights, but sometimes that is necessary.

Traffic stops are geared to catch not only speeders, but drunks on our roads. I've had friends killed by drunk drivers. If someone had stopped them before they met my friends, maybe those friends would still be alive.

Honest citizens have to understand that some of the infringement of our rights to privacy have become necessary to keep us safe. I for one am willing to be stopped by a police officer to explain why I'm where I am at any given time. What looks suspicious to me and to police is the person who feels offended that their rights are being infringed.

This might not catch the next mass killer on their way to kill more innocent people, but it might. I don't think this will end up as a police state, even if some think it will. Maybe you'll end up learning the first name of the cop on patrol in your neighborhood. If you like him, you can send him a Christmas card. If you don't like him, send him a fruit cake!

To me that article sounded a lot more like accepting a state of emergency situation without declaring it as such, than more friendly neighbourhood cops.
If you create situations like that often, for longer periods of time, for increasingly fuzzy reason you will alienate citizens, democracy will suffer and yes, it will be a police state.

 

[DVS]

Woah! Can we all just chill a bit maybe?

The beauty of all this is no one opinion can be right or wrong. It's just that, opinion. We all have one, like we all have asses. And everyone's ass is shitty some of the time too!

I'm not gonna pick out any individual posts to comment on, coz I really don't feel my opinion on this topic is gonna be helpful to anyone, but I'd like to see us treat each other with a bit more respect. That's one of the things I like the most about participating here; I feel comfortable speaking my mind because even if others don't agree they respect my right to disagree. When someone is acting like a douche they get called on it, and when someone realises they are being a douche they call themselves out on it. If only the rest of the world could be this way....

This is a hard time of the year for a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. I can't help but feel like maybe things are getting blown out of proportion a bit, yeah?

On the other hand, when someone calls me a racist, I tend to fight back. That's just how I am. Up to now, nobody has called me a racist so maybe since it's happened now, some people are finding out a little more about the real me and how I react about things. And I don't forget easily. I don't think you would either.

 

[DVS]

Thanks for saving me a lot of typing here.
The bolded parts especially just can not be repeated often enough.


To me that article sounded a lot more like accepting a state of emergency situation without declaring it as such, than more friendly neighbourhood cops.
If you create situations like that often, for longer periods of time, for increasingly fuzzy reason you will alienate citizens, democracy will suffer and yes, it will be a police state.

You won't mind if I disagree? And we've already had this discussion. I'm not going to have it again. I'm sorry if you feel I'm being rude.

 

[IrisAlthea]

You won't mind if I disagree? And we've already had this discussion. I'm not going to have it again. I'm sorry if you feel I'm being rude.

No, I don't mind and I don't think you are rude. I just hope that you do take the time and try to see were the concern fo privacy is coming from and not everyone insisting on keeping their privacy has criminal intent.

 

[intothewoods]

On the other hand, when someone calls me a racist, I tend to fight back. That's just how I am. Up to now, nobody has called me a racist so maybe since it's happened now, some people are finding out a little more about the real me and how I react about things. And I don't forget easily. I don't think you would either.

She didn't call you a racist. And add me to the list of people noticing a change in behavior.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I wasn't putting my words together too well last night, DVS, and I apologise for that.

But yeah-- I wonder how many people of color, or alternate gender, or who do not conform to the norm in the many perfectly legal but socially unpopular ways -- would be able to share your complacent trust in an armed authority.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Men need a way to refer to each other contemptuously as they jostle for position in the hierarchy. There are some good non-gender objurgations available, such as "shitheel"...."schweinehund"...."spunkbubble"..."mouth breather"...."clown school" etc. The problem is that none of these carry the same sting as words of contempt which compare the subject to women and gays.

What is needed is a way to convey the message: "you have utterly failed to live up to the code of masculine conduct" which does not refer to the above. The referent doesn't really matter so much, it's the tone of delivery.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Men need a way to refer to each other contemptuously as they jostle for position in the hierarchy. There are some good non-gender objurgations available, such as "shitheel"...."schweinehund"...."spunkbubble"..."mouth breather"...."clown school" etc. The problem is that none of these carry the same sting as words of contempt which compare the subject to women and gays.

What is needed is a way to convey the message: "you have utterly failed to live up to the code of masculine conduct" which does not refer to the above. The referent doesn't really matter so much, it's the tone of delivery.

If the bolded is true-- and we all agree that it is-- then the code of masculine conduct needs to be revamped until the bolded is no longer true.