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OK, we're getting away from UK accents, but this is my thread 
. (I think our Limey pals are near waking up time now so I'll sleep nicely knowing I can read their posts tomw. morn.)
In an otherwise fine film, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Mickey Rooney does one of the most execrable accents and stereotypical performances of a Japanese man ever recorded on film. It hurts to watch him so I ff his scenes.
Perdita
. (I think our Limey pals are near waking up time now so I'll sleep nicely knowing I can read their posts tomw. morn.)In an otherwise fine film, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Mickey Rooney does one of the most execrable accents and stereotypical performances of a Japanese man ever recorded on film. It hurts to watch him so I ff his scenes.
Perdita
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I don't think Vinnie Jones has been mentioned yet. He's a Londoner, a footballer, turned bad-boy, turned Actor.
He starred in Guy Richie's (Mr. Madonna) Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. A quintessentially British gangster movie.
He's now become pretty hot stuff in Hollywood. He's been in Gone in 60 Seconds, and others that I can't recall.
He, for me, is the typical English bay guy, his cockney accent is real. He didn't need to do a Dick Van Dyke (I shudder at that.) Vinnie Jones is a badass muther.
Lou
He starred in Guy Richie's (Mr. Madonna) Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. A quintessentially British gangster movie.
He's now become pretty hot stuff in Hollywood. He's been in Gone in 60 Seconds, and others that I can't recall.
He, for me, is the typical English bay guy, his cockney accent is real. He didn't need to do a Dick Van Dyke (I shudder at that.) Vinnie Jones is a badass muther.
Lou
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The_Fool said:
And it had damn well better not be Mr Fool (all said in my most evil English accent.)
The only really bad lady that comes to my somewhat limited mind
p ) is Kathy Bates, but she's American, however she is a brunette.With a brown hue,
Lou
Alex De Kok
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John Wayne doesn't have the bad English accents to himself. Tony Curtis in "Black Shield of Falworth" -
'Yonder lies the castle of my faddah.' (or as near as I can get!)
Dialect is fun, but try writing it in a story!
Alex
'Yonder lies the castle of my faddah.' (or as near as I can get!)
Dialect is fun, but try writing it in a story!
Alex
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Dame Judith Anderson as Mrs. Danvers (the more interesting character in the book and film after the literal title character) in "Rebecca" - brilliant.
Diana Rigg played her well too in a Brit tv production.
Diana Rigg played her well too in a Brit tv production.
oggbashan
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I think the ultimate British villain was Noel Coward in "The Italian Job" - the original version.
The world has changed. Between the wars the villains were German or Chinese.
The novels of Sax Rohmer (Fu Manchu) and Sapper (Bulldog Drummond versus Carl Peterson and Irma) and Dennis Wheatley ("The Island Where Time Stands Still" which is described on the back cover as "A fantastic tangle of slit-eyed intrigue and murder in China") all had Germans or Chinese as villains. I don't think they are "politically correct" for modern readers.
Og
The world has changed. Between the wars the villains were German or Chinese.
The novels of Sax Rohmer (Fu Manchu) and Sapper (Bulldog Drummond versus Carl Peterson and Irma) and Dennis Wheatley ("The Island Where Time Stands Still" which is described on the back cover as "A fantastic tangle of slit-eyed intrigue and murder in China") all had Germans or Chinese as villains. I don't think they are "politically correct" for modern readers.
Og
ffreak
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Oooo. Noel Coward - there's my man.
Have you seen the remake (of The Italian Job)? It's sleeping its way to box-office history in the theaters here. They stuck to the form of the older movies - no sex, the language is restrained, and the only murder is performed like the scene in Psycho. Very good remake and it should make Hollywood take another look at how they normally cut-out story to make room for blowups and gratuitous sex.
Have you seen the remake (of The Italian Job)? It's sleeping its way to box-office history in the theaters here. They stuck to the form of the older movies - no sex, the language is restrained, and the only murder is performed like the scene in Psycho. Very good remake and it should make Hollywood take another look at how they normally cut-out story to make room for blowups and gratuitous sex.
gauchecritic
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This takes a bit of time, ignore at will.
One of the original posts mentioned that it's the fact that Brit actors can act and therefore fulfill the depth of characterization required. I think this is probably true, but in concentrating on accents you ignore the most villainous aspect of any villain, that is, when they're not speaking they are still acting.
Looking at, for instance, pre-60s horror films. The directors/producers who had little or no access to special effects put great store in lighting and close-ups. More often than not these close-ups depended on the eyes.
Acting with your eyes is not a stage craft.
Only in film/video can you act with your eyes/face to any effect. This dilutes somewhat, the arguement that Brit actors are 'better' because of their stage experience.
On the other hand their stage experience also lends them the vocal talent to enunciate clearly and distinctly. American English does not naturally lend itself to being spoken clearly and distinctly, witness any oration designed for clear understanding and it is filled with 'catch phrases' and quotes.
Back to accents for villains in Hollywood films. The one outstanding part of almost all the villains speech, is calm and collected vocalisation. Even given horrific dialogue or especially when given horrific dialogue, the 'chill factor' rises enormously when horror is softly spoken.
Darth Vader (accentless American), Saruman (Rings trilogy) or Dear dear Larry as the 'Angel of Death' in that film with Dustin Hoffman where he drills his teeth without anaesthetic, very rarely if ever raise their voices above conversational level. "Is it safe?"
Which reminds me of a story with Lawrence Olivier about to enter stage when in runs a young Marlon Brando (?) fresh out of the Lee Strasberg school of method acting, puffing and panting, having run twice round the block because his 'character', a messenger, had run a great distance. Sir Larry enquires of the reason for his breathlesness to which the answer is given that it is the 'Method' way of acting. If his part is supposed to be breathless from running then he should actually be breathless from running. To which Sir L responds "Why not just act as though you had been running?"
Anyone still here?
Gauche
One of the original posts mentioned that it's the fact that Brit actors can act and therefore fulfill the depth of characterization required. I think this is probably true, but in concentrating on accents you ignore the most villainous aspect of any villain, that is, when they're not speaking they are still acting.
Looking at, for instance, pre-60s horror films. The directors/producers who had little or no access to special effects put great store in lighting and close-ups. More often than not these close-ups depended on the eyes.
Acting with your eyes is not a stage craft.
Only in film/video can you act with your eyes/face to any effect. This dilutes somewhat, the arguement that Brit actors are 'better' because of their stage experience.
On the other hand their stage experience also lends them the vocal talent to enunciate clearly and distinctly. American English does not naturally lend itself to being spoken clearly and distinctly, witness any oration designed for clear understanding and it is filled with 'catch phrases' and quotes.
Back to accents for villains in Hollywood films. The one outstanding part of almost all the villains speech, is calm and collected vocalisation. Even given horrific dialogue or especially when given horrific dialogue, the 'chill factor' rises enormously when horror is softly spoken.
Darth Vader (accentless American), Saruman (Rings trilogy) or Dear dear Larry as the 'Angel of Death' in that film with Dustin Hoffman where he drills his teeth without anaesthetic, very rarely if ever raise their voices above conversational level. "Is it safe?"
Which reminds me of a story with Lawrence Olivier about to enter stage when in runs a young Marlon Brando (?) fresh out of the Lee Strasberg school of method acting, puffing and panting, having run twice round the block because his 'character', a messenger, had run a great distance. Sir Larry enquires of the reason for his breathlesness to which the answer is given that it is the 'Method' way of acting. If his part is supposed to be breathless from running then he should actually be breathless from running. To which Sir L responds "Why not just act as though you had been running?"
Anyone still here?
Gauche
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gauchecritic said:
Yep, 'lil ole me.
Yes, indeed. The film you are referring to is Marathon Man. Sir Larry was absolutely brilliant in that film, it's the most cringe inducing thing that I have ever seen. He has such a cool, calm demeanour about him, pure evil.
Shuddering,
Lou
Quasimodem
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One of the 'problems' faced by American actors - especially during the Studio Era - was that the Studio would not permit them to take some roles as a villain .
Hitchcock had to change the end of "Suspicion" because the Studio would not allow Cary Grant (English-born) to play a killer.
Well after the end of the Studio System, Gregory Peck shocked his fans with his role in "The Boys From Brazil."
Sidebar: Although he had practically no lines, John Wayne as a Centurion in "The Greatest Story Ever Told" must rank as his worst outing.
Off-Topic:
An atomic bomb was tested in Nevada during the filming of "The Conqueror" apparently, the cast and crew shooting that day got radiated, after the wind shifted.
Several years later, after several cast and crew members had died of cancer, Dick Powell, who directed "The Conqueror," and later also died of cancer, upon hearing that Wayne had been diagnosed with cancer, was heard to exclaim, "Oh God! Don't tell me we killed John Wayne."
Hitchcock had to change the end of "Suspicion" because the Studio would not allow Cary Grant (English-born) to play a killer.
Well after the end of the Studio System, Gregory Peck shocked his fans with his role in "The Boys From Brazil."
Sidebar: Although he had practically no lines, John Wayne as a Centurion in "The Greatest Story Ever Told" must rank as his worst outing.
Off-Topic:
An atomic bomb was tested in Nevada during the filming of "The Conqueror" apparently, the cast and crew shooting that day got radiated, after the wind shifted.
Several years later, after several cast and crew members had died of cancer, Dick Powell, who directed "The Conqueror," and later also died of cancer, upon hearing that Wayne had been diagnosed with cancer, was heard to exclaim, "Oh God! Don't tell me we killed John Wayne."
MathGirl
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Good bad guys
I think Sidney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre are very good as villains in the old, old movies.
The most hateful of all the bad guys, I think, was Jack Palance in "Shane."
MG
Ps. Wasn't Olivier the diabolical dentist in "Marathon Man." He was very good (bad).
Oops. Now I see someone answered that above. A thousand pardons. I'm truly sorry and will really try to do better in the future. This is horribly embarrassing, and I am absolutely overcome with shame and engulfed in the very fires of chagrin. How can you ever forgive me? No, don't even try; I simply don't deserve to live. How can I ever show my face in public again. I'm embarrassed, mortified, and without hope of ever being able to hold my head up. I've committed an unforgivable transgression, and I'm totally ashamed of myself. I am truly, truly sorry. Oh, my God, I'm devastated.
I think Sidney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre are very good as villains in the old, old movies.
The most hateful of all the bad guys, I think, was Jack Palance in "Shane."
MG
Ps. Wasn't Olivier the diabolical dentist in "Marathon Man." He was very good (bad).
Oops. Now I see someone answered that above. A thousand pardons. I'm truly sorry and will really try to do better in the future. This is horribly embarrassing, and I am absolutely overcome with shame and engulfed in the very fires of chagrin. How can you ever forgive me? No, don't even try; I simply don't deserve to live. How can I ever show my face in public again. I'm embarrassed, mortified, and without hope of ever being able to hold my head up. I've committed an unforgivable transgression, and I'm totally ashamed of myself. I am truly, truly sorry. Oh, my God, I'm devastated.
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destinie21
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ffreak said:
Are you totally like for sure on that?
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Thoughtful and smart comments, Gauche. The first statement above calls to mind the greatest ballet dancers I was fortunate enough to see. I appreciate actor-dancers and what can be expressed without words. Just one example: the Cubana, Alicia Alonso, at 50+ dancing the 15 year old Giselle. The peasant girl's entrance is famous, she comes through the door of her cottage as if just entering the world. Alonso did it so that in the moment my eyes caught sight of her she was a 15 year old innocent girl. She danced joy, first love, betrayal and forgiveness the way Sh're wrote of such.gauchecritic said:
Perhaps acting with the eyes is not special in stagecraft but I've noticed and been taken in by eyes from my balcony seat at the opera. She had big eyes, but still, Callas was known for this; the audience was as mesmerized by her face as by The Voice.
Calm voiced villains really are the best. It's why I love that Mephistofele is portrayed as a gentleman in Boito's opera. Nothing like a smooth-talking man to take a girl down.
from my own ochii chornya to you, Purr
Quasimodem
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Some movie villains were American, it’s just that we tend to remember their roles as heros.
For example:
Richard Widmark was born in Minnesota.
James Cagney was born in Yonkers, New York.
Humphrey Bogart was born in New York, New York.
Laird Cregar was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Vincent Price was born in St. Louis, Missouri.
Dan Duryea was born in White Plains, New York.
Elisha Cook Jr. was born in San Francisco, California.
For example:
Richard Widmark was born in Minnesota.
James Cagney was born in Yonkers, New York.
Humphrey Bogart was born in New York, New York.
Laird Cregar was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Vincent Price was born in St. Louis, Missouri.
Dan Duryea was born in White Plains, New York.
Elisha Cook Jr. was born in San Francisco, California.
MathGirl
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Heaven-sent information
Thank you for that information. I've always wondered about the birthplace of the great Laird Cregar.
MG
Ps. Jack Elam and Warren Oates make great tough guys. Carl Maldin, too. He was despicable in "One Eyed Jacks," in which Brando called him a "scum suckin' pig."
Pps. Who the hell is Laird Cregar.
Ppps. Jack E has the widest mouth in show business since Joe E Brown. I've see JEB in some old clips. Did he ever do anything except open that humongous mouth and go , "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooaaaaaa?"
Pppps. Sorry about the outburst a few posts above. I'm all better now.
Dear Quaz,
Thank you for that information. I've always wondered about the birthplace of the great Laird Cregar.
MG
Ps. Jack Elam and Warren Oates make great tough guys. Carl Maldin, too. He was despicable in "One Eyed Jacks," in which Brando called him a "scum suckin' pig."
Pps. Who the hell is Laird Cregar.
Ppps. Jack E has the widest mouth in show business since Joe E Brown. I've see JEB in some old clips. Did he ever do anything except open that humongous mouth and go , "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooaaaaaa?"
Pppps. Sorry about the outburst a few posts above. I'm all better now.
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