UK Villains (is it the accent?)

[ffreak]

Good ole Vincent. Yes he was from Missouri, but where did he develop that voice?

 

[Quasimodem]

Lorre and Greenstreet were 'trademark' actors - they could spend 1 minute in any movie and you knew who they were and that they were not to be trusted. - Delicious acting at its best.

You've obviously not seen (or have forgotten) “The Mask of Dimitrios” from 1944.
Greenstreet (English) and Lorre (German) are the heros, and Zachary Scott (Austin, Texas) played the villain.

In later years Lorre became a comic-villain in such films as “Around the World in Eighty Days,” “Five Weeks In a Balloon,” “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea,” “Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea,” and with Vincent Price in “The Raven.”



Math,

Re: Laird Cregan
From: Biography from Leonard Maltin's Movie Encyclopaedia:

Hulking, brutish character actor whose heavy-lidded gaze and coldly sinister voice made him an ideal movie heavy in the early 1940s. Three inches over six feet tall, he made an ideal bouncer before taking up acting in the late 1930s. An alumnus of the Pasadena Playhouse, Cregar broke into films in 1940 with a bit part in Granny Get Your Gun an undistinguished Warners B picture. Signed by Fox later that year, he immediately was promoted to colourful supporting roles in Hudson's Bay (1940), Blood and Sand and Charley's Aunt (both 1941), before chilling moviegoers as the sadistic detective of I Wake Up Screaming (also 1941). Fox used Cregar in a variety of roles in Rings on Her Fingers, Ten Gentlemen From West Point, The Black Swan (all 1942), Heaven Can Wait (as a dresssuited Lucifer), Hello Frisco, Hello (playing a comic panhandler), and Holy Matrimony (both 1943). But it was in his quietly sinister turns in the Victorian-era shudder shows The Lodger (1944) and the posthumously released Hangover Square (1945) that Cregar made his most memorable impressions. Ironically, the burly actor longed to play leading-man types and suffered a heart attack while crash-dieting. He was just 28 years old.

Copyright © 1994 Leonard Maltin

Good ole Vincent. Yes he was from Missouri, but where did he develop that voice?

During his travels through Europe, his education at Yale, and undoubtedly from Hollywood elocution teachers.

 

[bridgeburner]

Lots of thoughts bubbling over here. Please pardon the lack of any through-line.

1 - It's possible that we like villains with accents because it makes them more "other" and we especially like villains with posh British accents because we have difficulty understanding the French.

2 - Much as I love both Buffy and Angel they have some freaky-deaky ways of justifying who has what kind of accent.

- Tony Head who plays Ruper Giles the Watcher and School Librarian in actuality sounds more like Spike in real life. His posh accent is as put on as the others'

- Before Spike became a vampire he had a posh accent as well. He adopted the modern urban accent later. It's even briefly addressed in one of the flashback episodes when Angel was evil and he and Darla and Drusilla ruled the dark.

- Drusilla's accent is very cool but makes no sense in her social standing --- not that I want it to change.

- The baddies in Angel and Buffy have modern, urban accents, but the goodguys - Giles, Wesley have posh accents.


I know there was more, I just can't remember any of it in any coherent manner at the moment. I'll be back!

-B

 

[gauchecritic]

Do mesmerizing voices count? Be careful Gauche, if you're as weak as I am. I could easily be victimized (subjected to horribly, deliciously, naughty things) when under Perdita's spell. I think she has a PhD in languid speech.

Wha?

Gauche

 

[Quasimodem]

...The most hateful of all the bad guys, I think, was Jack Palance in "Shane."...

Palance had help from his director, George Stevens.

To get that oily oozing motion as Palance climbed aboard his horse - never taking his eyes off Shane - was achieved quite simply.

Stevens filmed that shot backwards, of Palance slowly oozing off the horse - never taking his eyes off Shane. Then Stevens, inserted the shot into the film, backwards.

To exaggerate the violence of Palance’s character killing Torrey - the character played by Elisha Cook Jr, - they used an old comedy trick. They put Cook on a wire.

The scene is almost silent, only ambient sounds, then a sudden LOUD bang, a great cloud of black smoke in the foreground, and Cook appears to be blown backwards, sliding through the mud from the force of the blow.

Actually, a hydraulic jack had yanked Cook back, nearly twenty feet.

 

[Guest]

For an ultimate Peter Lorre performance see Mad Love; off the charts.

Perdita

-------------

Eff, please don't confuse Gauche.

 

[destinie21]

Lots of thoughts bubbling over here. Please pardon the lack of any through-line.

1 - It's possible that we like villains with accents because it makes them more "other" and we especially like villains with posh British accents because we have difficulty understanding the French.

2 - Much as I love both Buffy and Angel they have some freaky-deaky ways of justifying who has what kind of accent.

- Tony Head who plays Ruper Giles the Watcher and School Librarian in actuality sounds more like Spike in real life. His posh accent is as put on as the others'

- Before Spike became a vampire he had a posh accent as well. He adopted the modern urban accent later. It's even briefly addressed in one of the flashback episodes when Angel was evil and he and Darla and Drusilla ruled the dark.

- Drusilla's accent is very cool but makes no sense in her social standing --- not that I want it to change.

- The baddies in Angel and Buffy have modern, urban accents, but the goodguys - Giles, Wesley have posh accents.


I know there was more, I just can't remember any of it in any coherent manner at the moment. I'll be back!

-B

a buffy buff. What the hell does 5 by 5 mean faith used to say it all the time when she was a regular on the show. nothing to do with the thread but relavent to my obessesing mind

 

[ffreak]

Perdita? What, me? Never. I just confuse myself. No one else is responsible to understand what I can't understand.

Hard as rock, blue as sky, twinkle in woman's eyes.

 

[Guest]

a buffy buff. What the hell does 5 by 5 mean

Dest, so glad you asked. I want to know too. I get it by the context but I'd love to know the origin, actual meaning, etc.

Someone help us. Buffy's over and we have so little to get excited about.

Perdita who lusts after The Big Bad

 

[gauchecritic]

5 X 5

I think it's radio (CB) speak for excellent.

5 pounds of gain (?)[hitting the red mark on the guage] by 5 clarity. (good squelch)

That's a big 10 there good buddy hitting me 5 by 5. I'm on the Ohio interstate (at home) listening to those sweet country sounds (Abba's greatest hits) What's your 20? (where the fuck are you )

Breaker on the side, this here is Ice Cold (Artie Skink) and you're bleeding all over the side-band (I'm lonely) You sure got a big rig there sister (I hope you live close by so I can stalk you).

Gauche

 

[Guest]

5 x 5

Gauche, you made me larf really wide and loud. You are 6x6 in my book (or is it 7x7?)

Big Rig Purr

 

[Quasimodem]

For an ultimate Peter Lorre performance see Mad Love; off the charts.

The best Peter Lorre performance, in my opinion, is also probably one of the most disturbing. It was in Fritz Lang’s 1931 production of “M.”

A German city is being stalked by a serial child murderer. The dragnet for the child murderer also upsets the activities of the city’s regular criminal element, so it bands together to help the police track the killer down. Then they can resume their normal activities.

Lorre plays the murderer.


This was remade with the same title by Joseph Losey with David Wayne in the title role.

Being nearly a shot-for-shot copy of Lang’s first sound film, the 1951 remake added only one item. In it, the murderer takes his victim’s shoes, adding fetishism to an already sensational (for its days) mixture.



PS: I think earlier, I erroneously identified Lorre as German. He wasn’t. He was originally Hungarian.

 

[ffreak]

Yeah! "M" is way up at the top. Any modern day villain worth his salt should study Lorre in that movie.

 

[Guest]

Peter Lorre

Yes, "M" is a classic and Lang was a genius among film-makers.

I thought some Lorre fan might find this interesting:
When I first saw the last Lord of the Rings film it took a while but in discussion w/my brother we both thought the character in Gauche's AV (I don't know the books or film well so no names either) might have been acted 'after' Peter Lorre. I can imagine the actor who did the real scenes and voice using parts of Lorre's screen persona, as even with the more shady roles one always feels something for Lorre's characters. He draws it out of an audience through his eyes and voice (the main 'human' attributes of the Gauche-AV character). The moment Lorre appears and begins to speak in "Casablanca" I feel such pain for his character; I felt the same way about the Ring creature. (Plus of course who/what he is, such a classic divided thing, like Lear's vision of man.)

empathetic Perdita

 

[Jenny _S]

A couple Thoughts

I believe Peter Lorre was a Slovac.
And can we forget Jack Palance? Now there's a villin

 

[Quasimodem]

The ultimate Peter Lorrie line occurs in “The Mask of Dimitrios” addressed to Dimitrios Makropoulos (Zachary Scott) about the character played by Sydney Greenstreet.

"Why did you kill him? He was my friend!! Ok. So he wasn't my friend, but he was a nice man compared to you."

It sort of summed up the movie


To be precise, it was Austria-Hungary in 1904 when Lorrie was born, but now it is Slovakia.

 

[MathGirl]

Re: 5 X 5

I think it's radio (CB) speak for excellent.

Dear Gauchie,
It originated in the early days of aviation-radio, as you say, indicating the quality of the transmission on a scale of 1-5. It's still used in aircraft-tower communication.
MG
Ps. Hay, Quaz,
Is there anything you don't know about old movies. I haven't seen anyone stump you yet. Maybe you're like me, though, and ignore the questions you can't answer. Good idea.

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: Peter Lorre

thought the character in Gauche's AV (I don't know the books or film well so no names either)
Perdita

Gollum or earlier Smeagol (originally Prince Trahald?)

Gauche

 

[Quasimodem]

. . .Maybe you're like me, though, and ignore the questions you can't answer. Good idea.

More like I ignore the minutia of actors I don't care about.

Like what's a Ja-Lo (Jay-Low)

 

[gauchecritic]

Villain wise not forgetting of course Chico Marx in A Night at the Opera (I think) remarking on his murderous prowess (and reasonable prices) pointing to Harpo;

"At's a ma brodder. I kill him for notting"

Gauche

 

[MathGirl]

I thought Edward G. Robinson was a very good heavy until I heard him utter the line, "We're gonna throw you in the sea, see?" Somehow I've never been able to forgive him for that.
MG

 

[Guest]

Edward G.

Maths: you need to see him in "The Ten Commandments" as an Eqyptian (and Charleston Heston as Moses).

There's a sweet film with EGR called "Brother Orchid" where he plays a head gangster hiding out in a monestary.

 

[gauchecritic]

The problem with Edward G. is that when ever I think of him now I hear Chief Wiggum:

This is Papa Bear. Put out an APB for a male suspect, driving a... car of some sort, heading in the direction of, uh, you know, that place that sells chili. Suspect is hatless. Repeat, hatless.

Gauche

 

[Quasimodem]

I thought Edward G. Robinson was a very good heavy until I heard him utter the line, "We're gonna throw you in the sea, see?" Somehow I've never been able to forgive him for that.
MG

Ever since “Little Caesar,” Edward G. Robinson had a problem with this “See?” line.

Your problem, rightly, should be addressed to the screenwriter.

The line should have been: "We're gonna throw you in the bay, see?"


Have you seen the 1940 Edward G. Robinson film, “Brother Orchid.”

A gangster returns from Europe where he was looking - unsuccessfully - for "class." He finds that while he was gone, his old gang has been taken over by a rival (Humphrey Bogart).

As a result, Robinson’s character gets shot. Wounded, he finds sanctuary in a monastery, where he is gradually transformed by the simple life of the brothers.

The tag line was priceless: “We'd like youse to meet Brother Orchid!”


Oops! Perdita beat me to mentioning "Brother Orchid. See?"

 

[TheEarl]

Some Movies Featuring English-sounding Baddies


Alan Rickman in Die Hard
Alan Rickman in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves
Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs
Basil Rathbone in Anna Karenina
Basil Rathbone in David Copperfield
Ben Kingsley in Sneakers
Betty Lou Gerson in 101 Dalmations
Boris Karloff in Frankenstein
Charles Dance in Last Action Hero
Christopher Lee in Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Christopher Lee in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
Claude Rains in Notorious
David Bowie in Labyrinth
David Warner in Titanic
Dougray Scott in Mission: Impossible 2
George Sanders in Rebecca
George Sanders in Disney's The Jungle Book
James Mason in North by Northwest
James Mason in The Verdict
Jeremy Irons in Die Hard With a Vengeance
Jeremy Irons in The Lion King
John Lithgow in Cliffhanger
John Lithgow in Shrek
Joss Ackland in Lethal Weapon 2
Pam Ferris in Matilda
Patrick Stewart in Conspiracy Theory
Peter Cushing in Star Wars
Pierce Brosnan in Mrs. Doubtfire
Ray Milland in Dial M for Murder
Richard Attenborough in Jurassic Park
Robert Carlyle in The World is Not Enough
Sean Connery in The Avengers
Sir Ian McKellen in X-Men
Stephen Berkhoff in Beverly Hills Cop
Tim Roth in Pulp Fiction
Timothy Dalton in The Shadow
Tom Wilkinson in Rush Hour

Lastly, there is a link on this site on How to Fake an English Accent in a Chatroom

Pear I'm sorry to be pedantic, but Robert Carlyle spoke with a Russian accent in The World Is Not Enough.

The Earl