What are your thoughts on this Jahi McMath situation...

[dolf]

And yet I just saw a spokesman for the McMath family....a cousin I believe who said that if the hospital had not spent so much money on lawyers and security at the hospital they could have paid for the move of the girl.

Can you fucking imagine having the gall to say that? Blaming the hospital for not paying for her to be moved????

Who the fuck do these people think they are.

of course I can understand it. I have kids.
from the family's PO, the money they spent on lawyers could have been spent on her care, they're spending the same money on killing her instead of saving her.
that doesn't mean the hospital aren't in the right. you can agree with the hospital whilst still feeling sympathy for people blinded by pain.

it's not rational or reasonable, but grief isn't a rational or reasonable thing.
your lack of empathy is troublesome.

 

[Saint Peter]

I suggest taxidermy.

That is so wrong.

 

[Killswitch]

of course I can understand it. I have kids.
from the family's PO, the money they spent on lawyers could have been spent on her care, they're spending the same money on killing her instead of saving her.
that doesn't mean the hospital aren't in the right. you can agree with the hospital whilst still feeling sympathy for people blinded by pain.

it's not rational or reasonable, but grief isn't a rational or reasonable thing.
your lack of empathy is troublesome.

The hospital IS caring for her and in their eyes and the eyes of six doctors who have examined her and the courts....she is deceased. So they are caring for a dead body.

The money they or anyone else spends on anything has nothing to do with anything. The hospital is willing to aid in her transfer when the family produces a doctor and facility that is willing to take a deceased person on a ventilator.

To date they have not produced these people.

The hospital is not killing her dolf....jesus christ. She's already dead!

I have empathy. For the deceased girl. I also have empathy for the hospital and the staff forced to care for a dead person.

I do not have empathy for a bunch of self serving lunatics.

 

[Killswitch]

That is so wrong.

Was funny as hell though.

 

[dolf]

The hospital IS caring for her and in their eyes and the eyes of six doctors who have examined her and the courts....she is deceased. So they are caring for a dead body.

The money they or anyone else spends on anything has nothing to do with anything. The hospital is willing to aid in her transfer when the family produces a doctor and facility that is willing to take a deceased person on a ventilator.

To date they have not produced these people.

The hospital is not killing her dolf....jesus christ. She's already dead!

I have empathy. For the deceased girl. I also have empathy for the hospital and the staff forced to care for a dead person.

I do not have empathy for a bunch of self serving lunatics.

yeah, see, this is what I mean about your inability to empathise. it is possible to hold an opinion whist still understanding the processes behind the opposing opinion.

you can choose to go through life saying, ''i'm right, end of!'' but you'll be missing out on something.

yes, she's dead. but if the family can't accept that then to them she is being murdered. so they are reacting in the way any family of a person about to be murdered would react. it's real in their minds, despite I not being real from an objective standpoint.

see?

 

[Queersetti]

Thats what it started as. Now it's all about the excitement and the thrill of being involved in something other than sitting at home and watching wendy williams.

It's dramatic, sad, exciting, different, new, and the tv!

Humans are very strange people.

I imagine they will have a reality show soon enough.

I think they need to be looked at for child abuse but she's physically and legally dead so I don't know if thats even possible.

The hospital IS caring for her and in their eyes and the eyes of six doctors who have examined her and the courts....she is deceased. So they are caring for a dead body.

The money they or anyone else spends on anything has nothing to do with anything. The hospital is willing to aid in her transfer when the family produces a doctor and facility that is willing to take a deceased person on a ventilator.

To date they have not produced these people.

The hospital is not killing her dolf....jesus christ. She's already dead!

I have empathy. For the deceased girl. I also have empathy for the hospital and the staff forced to care for a dead person.

I do not have empathy for a bunch of self serving lunatics.

Well, technically, you can't have empathy for a dead person, but at least you're trying.

 

[nicknick1]

let me guess - liberals are calling to kill her because...who are those doctors to control a girl's body? when you can simply kill her. Makes sense - 1000%.

 

[Phelia]

It is interesting to read the responses in this thread, because I guess I still don't really understand why it is a "situation." I don't see any ambiguity here, and I cannot fathom how courts have even entertained it. From everything I've read, she is brain dead. That is not a turn of phrase, and it does not mean that she is in a coma or a vegetative state. It means that she is dead. When the hospital workers refer to her as a "cadaver," they are not being inhumane (though I will admit that it does sound a little insensitive), they are being medically and legally accurate.

It is tragic. She was way too young, and it was a routine operation. It is particularly heartbreaking that she vocalized her fears of not waking up ahead of time, but lots of people are scared before surgery, and I don't really see how that is a relevant point to the story.

I don't see any conflicted decisions. I don't see any patient's rights being violated, because she is not a patient anymore. She is dead. I wouldn't grant patient's rights to a body in a a bed just because the family is not ready to bury it. Am I missing something? Am I being insensitive? I think it's even sadder that it's been turned into a news story and that people who don't really understand what happened are vilifying the hospital staff. I am sure that it is not easy for them, either, but death is a reality of their jobs.

 

[Phelia]

yeah, see, this is what I mean about your inability to empathise. it is possible to hold an opinion whist still understanding the processes behind the opposing opinion.

you can choose to go through life saying, ''i'm right, end of!'' but you'll be missing out on something.

yes, she's dead. but if the family can't accept that then to them she is being murdered. so they are reacting in the way any family of a person about to be murdered would react. it's real in their minds, despite I not being real from an objective standpoint.

see?

Ah, yes. My heart certainly goes out to her family - no parents should have to endure burying a child. I could never fault a grieving parent for acting irrationally. But the lawyers, courts, publicists, reporters, even the extended family members who are playing into this? I believe what they're doing is wrong, and I would hold them culpable for their actions. They're making things a hundred times worse.

 

[dolf]

Ah, yes. My heart certainly goes out to her family - no parents should have to endure burying a child. I could never fault a grieving parent for acting irrationally. But the lawyers, courts, publicists, reporters, even the extended family members who are playing into this? I believe what they're doing is wrong, and I would hold them culpable for their actions. They're making things a hundred times worse.

some will be cashing in but others will just be ignorant. they heard from someone about this one time this guy was dead but he wasn't and woke up after ten years... and the differences between a coma and being brain dead can seem like blurred lines. sometimes doctors do get it wrong, and the girl is warm and twitches sometimes.

people are prone to wishful thinking.

 

[anchoredinocean]

And the Texas hospital is only keeping the pregnant woman alive because Rick Perry cares about "life" when it is in the womb, but not out of it. I know it has to be hard to want to see something that could possibly come to term die, but it doesn't give the state any right to force that upon the loved ones. It's just more self-serving bullshit from the Christian right. Let them pull the plug and let them move on in peace.

 

[Killswitch]

yeah, see, this is what I mean about your inability to empathise. it is possible to hold an opinion whist still understanding the processes behind the opposing opinion.

you can choose to go through life saying, ''i'm right, end of!'' but you'll be missing out on something.

yes, she's dead. but if the family can't accept that then to them she is being murdered. so they are reacting in the way any family of a person about to be murdered would react. it's real in their minds, despite I not being real from an objective standpoint.

see?

Thats not empathy. Thats sitting on a fence. I can see both sides but choose to side with logical people.

 

[dolf]

Thats not empathy. Thats sitting on a fence. I can see both sides but choose to side with logical people.

it's not sitting on the fence, you muppet. I've a clear opinion on what is right and wrong in this situation. choosing to see another person's view point doesn't water down your own.

your theory that thinking makes a person wishy washy is telling.

 

[evesdream]

I suggest taxidermy.

Or another Weekend At Bernie's sequel.

 

[Phelia]

some will be cashing in but others will just be ignorant. they heard from someone about this one time this guy was dead but he wasn't and woke up after ten years... and the differences between a coma and being brain dead can seem like blurred lines. sometimes doctors do get it wrong, and the girl is warm and twitches sometimes.

people are prone to wishful thinking.

I do understand, but at some point, ignorance is not an excuse. There is not a single instance of a patient recovering from brain death. It is not easy to make this declaration, and I believe that legally, at least two physicians are required to confirm it independently. In this case, according to the articles I've read, it was at least four. It also sounds as though people speaking on behalf of Jahi's "rights" have been, at best, incorrect, and at worst, dishonest about simple facts.

If the extended family is blinded by grief and truly not able to see the difference between reality and wishful thinking, the people who are not connected and are furthering this fight (e.g. the Schiavos) are prolonging the stress and suffering all around, and I think that's reprehensible.

 

[koalabear]

I suggest taxidermy.

^This.

 

[dolf]

I do understand, but at some point, ignorance is not an excuse. There is not a single instance of a patient recovering from brain death. It is not easy to make this declaration, and I believe that legally, at least two physicians are required to confirm it independently. In this case, according to the articles I've read, it was at least four. It also sounds as though people speaking on behalf of Jahi's "rights" have been, at best, incorrect, and at worst, dishonest about simple facts.

If the extended family is blinded by grief and truly not able to see the difference between reality and wishful thinking, the people who are not connected and are furthering this fight (e.g. the Schiavos) are prolonging the stress and suffering all around, and I think that's reprehensible.

I think you underestimate the stupidity of the general population. people believe that evolution is a scam! people really are, frighteningly frequently, that dumb. they don't trust doctors (unless they're being told what they want to hear), read scare stories about death panels, get told by well meaning people that god is listening and where there's life there's hope.

 

[Killswitch]

Or another Weekend At Bernie's sequel.

:caning:

 

[Phelia]

I think you underestimate the stupidity of the general population. people believe that evolution is a scam! people really are, frighteningly frequently, that dumb. they don't trust doctors (unless they're being told what they want to hear), read scare stories about death panels, get told by well meaning people that god is listening and where there's life there's hope.

Oh, I definitely do. I mean, I read all the statistics about giant swaths of the population believing we coexisted with dinosaurs, but I'm still flummoxed when I actually meet them (the people who believe that, not dinosaurs. But wow, wouldn't that be a cool story)! And really, we're all stupid about some things. My sister is an ivy-educated engineer and put diesel in her car, once, because it was cheaper!

However, I just don't think that dumbness is an excuse. I made, and still make, merciless fun of my sister (and she had to pay to get the engine flushed). These people are wrong, and some of them appear to be in positions where we would expect them to know better. I don't care if they're well-meaning or not. Whatever their intentions are, the results (in this case, wasted hospital resources, prolonged grief for the family in the form of false hope, the obfuscation of misinformation to the public through a manipulation of the press) are bad.

 

[dolf]

and that's our entire society.

we've had thousands of years and we've still not got it right.
the explanation? stupidity.

 

[Phelia]

and that's our entire society.

we've had thousands of years and we've still not got it right.
the explanation? stupidity.

Well, not anymore. Not now that I'M here to offer my EXPERT GENIUS OPINIONS on the INTERNET! We're saved!!

 

[JohnnySavage]

Oh, I definitely do. I mean, I read all the statistics about giant swaths of the population believing we coexisted with dinosaurs, but I'm still flummoxed when I actually meet them (the people who believe that, not dinosaurs. But wow, wouldn't that be a cool story)! And really, we're all stupid about some things. My sister is an ivy-educated engineer and put diesel in her car, once, because it was cheaper!

However, I just don't think that dumbness is an excuse. I made, and still make, merciless fun of my sister (and she had to pay to get the engine flushed). These people are wrong, and some of them appear to be in positions where we would expect them to know better. I don't care if they're well-meaning or not. Whatever their intentions are, the results (in this case, wasted hospital resources, prolonged grief for the family in the form of false hope, the obfuscation of misinformation to the public through a manipulation of the press) are bad.

I have photographic proof that this is true.

You can clearly see a dinosaur with humans in the picture.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Phelia]

I have photographic proof that this is true.

You can clearly see a dinosaur with humans in the picture.

Whoa, are you sure? Looks photoshopped to me.

This might change everything.

 

[Queersetti]