What being a slave means to me...

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: What being a slave means to me...

....(okay I put up a little bit of a fight if it pushes my limits, but I do it anyways eventually hehe)

Sometimes MORE than a little

 

[MoonduskSub]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What being a slave means to me...

Better late than never ::cursty::


Moonie

Sometimes MORE than a little

 

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What being a slave means to me...

Better late than never ::cursty::


Moonie

MMm hmmm. We'll see about that.

 

[MoonduskSub]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What being a slave means to me...

Oh boy, what I get myself into Hope you're having fun on your trip Sir...See you when you get back! Muah!


Moonie

MMm hmmm. We'll see about that.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Now to open this thread up, I would love to hear some feedback even if you are not a slave yourself. Submissives, slaves, Dom/mes, Masters/Mistresses are all welcomed.What does being a slave mean to you (even if you are not)? Or owning one? Poetry, examples, stories are all welcomed... Thank you and I look forward to reading the post


Moonie [/B]

Oh my goodness!!! For the longest time, I have tried to figure out if i am submissive or slave material...By your definition ...i have slave tendencies wrapped up in a masochistic venue. I live for my owner, i would do anything he asked...whether it was reasonable or not. I try at all times, to be ready, willing and able to respond to his slightest request. I do not know how to be submissive (really) as I question everything to do with that aspect of myself. I find myself wondering about so many things, none of which I would ever bring to his attention for fear that it would cause him undue stress or worries. Same thing with "safe words". I try not to ever utter them, if his enjoyment is in caning or whipping me, then who am I to tell him "No"? I find it difficult to say that word to him...as it would end his pleasure thus ruining mine. For a long while I thought it was pride...mayhap I was wrong. The confusion of course comes from 2 things..since I have been this way for over 7 years, does that mean I was always meant to be a slave and not the average run of the mill submissive? The other point would be this: since I have been involved in this scene for a while, why did no one else figure this out? For me, it seems that slavery is something that is constantly with you...like the love for a mother or child...and though I consider myself a submissive...I have to wonder...just how much pain and torment could have been avoided if I would have started from the other side?

 

[MoonduskSub]

Re: Re: What being a slave means to me...

Hello apet, welcome to the thread. I am glad that you enjoyed reading through the thread, and I'm glad that it may or may not have helped you. One thing I have learned is that this lifestyle is about perception and it is a very grey area between the subject of slave vs. submissive. For instance, some say a slave doesn't have limits....I completely disagree. BUT limits with a slave are usually more fears or wishes of not wanting or wanting something done to them. Usually a good Master/Mistress will ask this and will take it into consideration so not to hurt the slave psychologically, mentally, physically, or spiritually. I know of many times where I would not safe for the sake of my Master's pleasure and that is common with slaves more than submissives but not limited to. I also would like to say that again it is all about perception. I liked your other point about mother and child. I have to say that forever a part of me will always be owned by my ex Master, though I move on and look forward to what the furture has to bring. I hope you stay tuned and ask any questions you would like....maybe someone else can help out?
All are welcomed
Blessings


Moonie

Oh my goodness!!! For the longest time, I have tried to figure out if i am submissive or slave material...By your definition ...i have slave tendencies wrapped up in a masochistic venue. I live for my owner, i would do anything he asked...whether it was reasonable or not. I try at all times, to be ready, willing and able to respond to his slightest request. I do not know how to be submissive (really) as I question everything to do with that aspect of myself. I find myself wondering about so many things, none of which I would ever bring to his attention for fear that it would cause him undue stress or worries. Same thing with "safe words". I try not to ever utter them, if his enjoyment is in caning or whipping me, then who am I to tell him "No"? I find it difficult to say that word to him...as it would end his pleasure thus ruining mine. For a long while I thought it was pride...mayhap I was wrong. The confusion of course comes from 2 things..since I have been this way for over 7 years, does that mean I was always meant to be a slave and not the average run of the mill submissive? The other point would be this: since I have been involved in this scene for a while, why did no one else figure this out? For me, it seems that slavery is something that is constantly with you...like the love for a mother or child...and though I consider myself a submissive...I have to wonder...just how much pain and torment could have been avoided if I would have started from the other side?

 

[rhody]

i just started visting this boards as i am budding writer and i want to get a feel for this vast audience. i must say, that i think i have found a place to guide me in my own personal liking.

i have recently been reintroduced to the bdsm world. i ahve always flirted around it for many decades and i have decided that i want to be here for the time being. being submissive or slave is fast becoming as natural as breathing to me. yes this scares me a bit, but not enough to make me run away.

i have been most fortunate in finding a trainer who is willing to explore my limits. and each time i try something new, i feel a sense of freedom that i've yet been able to put to words. the further we stretch those limits, the more i want to feel more. i so much want this man to be my master, but i hesitate to totally submitting to him. he is patience personified.

as for the difference between submissive and slave, i'm reminded of that quote, one man's trash is another man's treasure. there are really no clear cut black and white lines, just the gray ones that are generously drawn. for me it's submissve at this time.

i look forward to reading more in this thread and i will certainly return here to further my education in being sub/slave.

rhody

 

[Guest]

hi everyone ..
i don't post here often, but i do my fair share of lurking

being a slave used to mean everything to me..

giving myself over to His every desire and need used to make me feel complete; but it seemed the more i gave of myself, the less He needed me. He couldn't explain the reasons for His inattentiveness, so i left with His full support and blessing.

it still tore my heart out.

if He didn't want me, why not just tell me instead of pushing me away like that?

*getting off my soapbox and feeling a bit better*

 

[Richard49]

Some thoughts posted to another discussion list
These are not my words
I am posting here for thought


I know we have all had this discussion before but I still don't
agree. I know that you can be submissive without being a slave,
however how can you be a slave without being submissive?


**** As with many terms in this lifestyle, there will never be one absolute answer that all will accept. My favorite comes from a woman named Laura Goodwin who runs a group in Connecticut. Her e-mail forums are quite lively (and she and I have had some rather pointed disagreements). This following passage, though, came after several women had debated the sub/slave issue - and she expressed what comes the closest to my own take on the subject. Whether it's your opinion or not, I hope it's helpful. --> Ed
----------------------------------------

Pardon me for interrupting, but I have some questions. It sounds to me like what you ladies are craving is to be a slave, not just a sub. A submissive can be just a playmate, but a slave never is. To be a slave is a serious commitment.

Answer me this:

Do you want to belong to your master? (An exclusive relationship)
Do you want your master to feel like he has a serious duty toward you?
Do you want to avoid a relationship where there is switching?
Do you want to live a life of continuous service?
Do you want to be in love with your master?
Do you want to feel like master cherishes you?
Do you think it's OK for the master to enjoy greater freedoms and
discretionary powers in your relationship?

If you say yes to most of these, then IMHO you want to be a slave, not a sub. Subs can just assume a role for the purpose of play. Slaves take their sub role more seriously, and they are sub all the time.

If you want to be a slave, then you have to look for masters that want a slave. Dominants who are switches can't maintain the master role all the time, and be happy.

The reason a "brat" might have an easier time finding someone to play with is because finding people who are only playing is easy. The world's full of them. Masters and mistresses who are serious about owning a slave are a minority. You have to be dedicated about looking for such a relationship. If you are a slave at heart, then just playing is never going to fully satisfy you.

I believe the reason for this is that a tremendous amount of
responsibility is placed upon the Master or Mistress in this case.
Whereas, a "Dom/me" can shut it off so to speak and allow His or Her subbie to maintain a degree of control over his/her life, a Master or Mistress does not have this option nor really wants it. From my understanding, a Master or Mistress is completely responsible for the slave in all areas and aspects of his/her life. Not many people are willing to take on this responsibility.

 

[Netzach]

Historically, in Leather, a slave is very different from what's described in your quote, Richard. Certainly a lot of people were doing what we call BDSM now outside of the Leather context also, so this sense of "slave" may be completely different from someone else's.

I am thinking of the experiences of many of the people I know who came out in the 80's and what's described in Viola Johnson's memoir. Being a slave had nothing to do with a sense of security, a sense of being "cherished" or in an exclusive relationship with your owner. Being a slave was about acceptance of one's lot. You signed the contract, you held to your word. For as long as you were possibly able, whatever the mental, physical, emotional cost, you had given your word and you were property. End of discussion. Slaves are usually people with an extraordinary sense of personal honor and commitment.

You may have chosen well, and gotten lucky, and gotten a good owner who cared about your needs. You also may not have. That was the owner's prerogative, to be kind, to scene with you, to pay attention to you IF and WHEN they felt like it. And how they felt like it.

If someone is capable of accepting that reality, if someone's need to serve is so great that they will do so at serious and ongoing personal cost, that they will obey an owner even if they think they might not be right (saluting the uniform, not the man) then I think they are a slave.

I have always held this sense of what slavery is, and I have had a slave. He did not live with me. He was at my disposal whenever I needed him. There might be months where I did not choose to use him, and in the interim he was free to do whatever he pleased because I had not the time nor desire to run his life. When I wanted to interfere in his life, I was free to do so however I wanted and he was to obey. That was the agreement. Our contract: "I can do anything I want and I won't maim you doing it." End of discussion.

It was an arrangement that I found convenient and challenging, but it is not something I need more than anything. It was completely about me and my convenience and not at all about him, and that was the fulfillment for him. For me it was enlightening but not my relationship ideal. I would have a slave like that again, but I would not *seek* a slave like that again, if that makes sense. For that reason, I don't consider myself an ideal *owner*

But to me, Mastery, Ownership and Dominance are not synonymous.

I also believe that someone can have a completely Dominant personality and have a need to be a slave. It's rare, but it can happen. I think the sense of contract and agreement is the most important thing to a slave, not a sense of happiness via submission.

 

[MoonduskSub]

Keep the ball rolling

Hiyas rhody and jasmine. Thank you for your replies, it means alot. And thank you richard and netzach(please let me have spelled that right). I appreciate the post As for your post richard I have to say it was very interesting and I'd love to hear some responses. And as for the dominant wanting to be owned...I agree it is definitely a possibility. So anyone that has any comments please post them.....Im going to sit back on this one, gather my thoughts and post after I hear some responses ::smiles::


Moonie

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Well

I read both Sir Richard and Netzach posts...and quite frankly both of them make very pertinent points. I think that "true" slavery is always more about the owner than the actual slave...however if the slave feels a complete sense of fulfillment then it works out. However you use the terminology..it still boils down to 2 things which are: the slave needs to serve and the owner has to have complete control over every aspect of said slave's life. Whether there is a contractual agreement or not, those 2 things still stand. It makes sense no matter how you look at it...from either aspect since neither one of those home truths change. I know this probably reads like babble but i just felt I had to point the similarities in their posts, and not the differences. Thanks for an enjoyabl thread that i will be reading with interest.

 

[sub princess]

Some thoughts posted to another discussion list
These are not my words
I am posting here for thought


I know we have all had this discussion before but I still don't
agree. I know that you can be submissive without being a slave,
however how can you be a slave without being submissive?


**** As with many terms in this lifestyle, there will never be one absolute answer that all will accept. My favorite comes from a woman named Laura Goodwin who runs a group in Connecticut. Her e-mail forums are quite lively (and she and I have had some rather pointed disagreements). This following passage, though, came after several women had debated the sub/slave issue - and she expressed what comes the closest to my own take on the subject. Whether it's your opinion or not, I hope it's helpful. --> Ed
----------------------------------------

Pardon me for interrupting, but I have some questions. It sounds to me like what you ladies are craving is to be a slave, not just a sub. A submissive can be just a playmate, but a slave never is. To be a slave is a serious commitment.

Answer me this:

Do you want to belong to your master? (An exclusive relationship)
Do you want your master to feel like he has a serious duty toward you?
Do you want to avoid a relationship where there is switching?
Do you want to live a life of continuous service?
Do you want to be in love with your master?
Do you want to feel like master cherishes you?
Do you think it's OK for the master to enjoy greater freedoms and
discretionary powers in your relationship?

If you say yes to most of these, then IMHO you want to be a slave, not a sub. Subs can just assume a role for the purpose of play. Slaves take their sub role more seriously, and they are sub all the time.

If you want to be a slave, then you have to look for masters that want a slave. Dominants who are switches can't maintain the master role all the time, and be happy.

The reason a "brat" might have an easier time finding someone to play with is because finding people who are only playing is easy. The world's full of them. Masters and mistresses who are serious about owning a slave are a minority. You have to be dedicated about looking for such a relationship. If you are a slave at heart, then just playing is never going to fully satisfy you.

I believe the reason for this is that a tremendous amount of
responsibility is placed upon the Master or Mistress in this case.
Whereas, a "Dom/me" can shut it off so to speak and allow His or Her subbie to maintain a degree of control over his/her life, a Master or Mistress does not have this option nor really wants it. From my understanding, a Master or Mistress is completely responsible for the slave in all areas and aspects of his/her life. Not many people are willing to take on this responsibility.

Hello A/all, i just read this post, and it was ironic that this was the very topic on my mind right now. i am pretty new to D/s, i thought and fantasized about it for years before finally deciding to pursue it. By all accounts i thought myself to be a submissive, i would get angry when i was called a slave. After getting to know many P/people involved with D/s, and talking to "Masters" as well as "Doms" i was told by one Master that i was in fact a slave. i thought that He was simply saying that because a slave was what He wanted. The reason i thought that i was submissive, and not a slave was because i was lead to believe that slaves were worthless people, doormats with low self esteem. It was not until i met my Master, and talked with Him about His ideas of slavery that made me see the true difference between a sub and a slave. slaves are neither worthless nor do they have low self esteem. The slaves that i have talked with are very strong, like many on this board, they are caring, loving people who give of themselves so much to their One Master or Mistress.

Even in the beginning of my training with Him i still did not think i was a slave, yes i sought to please Him, yes His pleasure was mine, yes i wanted to be owned by Him.... but to me that still meant sub.. "deep submissive" was a term i heard frequently. Over time i saw for myself that i am a slave, though i do believe that it stems from my submissive nature at heart. my desire to give all of myself to Him has evolved over time, and i still have much to discover, but for now, i am happy and proud to be a slave, His slave.

Consequently i answered yes to all of those questions.... though this is irrelevant since one of the first lessons that Master taught me was to not pay attention to A/anyone E/elses ideas of what a slave is, but to just know what it is to be a slave in my heart.

Moonie, this is a great thread, and you write and express yourself beautifully. Thank you.

s.p.

 

[Richard49]

Self Esteem

Comments about esteem/self esteem keep popping up
so I thought i would throw this out

Nathainal Brandon noted psychologist and student of Ayn Rand
gives this definition for self esteem and I love it

Self esteem is the difference between what we claim we believe and how we actually behave

 

[rosco rathbone]

Oh man. Not a Michael Parkes litho as an "av". Moondusksub, you just gave me a flashback to some of the worst years of my life, working in an "art" gallery that flogged that garbage to ankle-length-leather-coat-wearing clowns from New Jersey. Oy. If I am homophobic, it dates to my experience with the @#$$% greedy queens that ran that joint.

 

[MoonduskSub]

Okay......

Subprincess glad to have you aboard and thank you for your comment. Richard loved the quote and thank you for posting that And as for MY AV.....I like it so neener neener neener ::ruffles your hair and ducks:: (and I am not a queen or do I wear long leather coats)

All right....I would like to have some questions/comments thrown out.....Calling on all Dom/me(s), Master/Mistress(es) and Tops.... and calling on all sub(s), bottom(s), and slave(s)....
I've got one, actually along what sub princess was discussing...

Do many people that you have incountered or even yourself think of a slave or slaves in a bad manner? Does the word bother you? If so (or not) why? Do you find that slaves have lower self esteems?......comments on what the WORD slave means to you....(not just what it is to you, like the thread states).....
Alright is a one for all kind of question.......have at it
Blessings,


Moonie

 

[Richard49]

Re: Okay......

Do many people that you have incountered or even yourself think of a slave or slaves in a bad manner? Does the word bother you? If so (or not) why? Do you find that slaves have lower self esteems?......comments on what the WORD slave means to you....(not just what it is to you, like the thread states).....
Alright is a one for all kind of question.......have at it
Blessings,


Moonie

For one ot wear the term for themself with the agreement of there Dom I have no problem ....

IMHO there are ever deeping degrees of committment
Being a slave is deep

Now can one be a slave without having a Master? Can being a slave be natural thing? I would like to believe so.

But what do I know. Nothing.

 

[zanna]

Perhaps i am wrong, but i don't subscribe to a label either way. i am who i am and that defines itself in one word -- His. i wish to be owned, directed, corrected, punished, used, manipulated, molded into what He wishes, into what He finds pleasing. i find the ultimate joy in pleasing Him. However, this is not limited only to Him. i have always been that way. i gain a great pleasure in doing for others, but with Him it is much stronger need to do so. In family get togethers, i will stand until everyone is seated, then find a seat for myself. i seem to defer to anothers needs before my own. i will get drinks for others without even thinking about it. i am not sure if perhaps that makes me a doormat. i don't let others push me around. i just don't demand my needs come first. i don't need that.

There are times with the PMDD that i get very out of control. He is my safety there, and accepting of what it means for Him. He allows me to be the outspoken person that i am. He welcomes and encourages my opinions, thoughts, and needs. The ultimate decision is His, as is the choice of whether those needs are met. i enjoy His ownership. i enjoy the bonds, even when i sometimes pull at them. It is not my wish to be released from Him, but sometimes a need to know that those bonds are still in place or a need to feel Him pull back on the reigns a bit.

i love to make Him smile. i love to cook His dinner or wash Him in the shower. i don't know that i can say i am totally selfless though. i am not sure in our relationship that either He or i could be. He gains something from this as do i. There are times when i am apart from Him that i feel i am being smothered and the only way to breathe again is to spend some time sitting in silence at His feet. i can only hope that what He gives me...that i do indeed return to Him.

i do not know if i am sub or slave or what label another may place on me. He encouarges me to be me at the same time as owning me. A label is just a convenient way for someone else to define you, IMHO. So again, i say quite simply, that i am His.

Sorry this post was so long.

zanna

 

[Richard49]

Sorry this post was so long.

zanna

Don't be

It is a good post

 

[Desdemona]

I've read this thread with interest.

Being a slave is something I've been thinking alot about lately. I'm going to respond to concepts that have resonated with me that were posted by many of you.

In my reality, I need and crave to be with my Master. When I have to leave Him, its agony. When I return to His side, it feels as if I am coming home. I derive quiet joy from doing small services for Him. I ache to please Him both sexually as well as non-sexually.

His dominance doesn't begin or end with a scene, nor does my submission. It is just who we are. Submitting to His will is part of my daily life, whether I am physically at His side or not. I can honestly say that it isn't easy at times and I stumble. There are times when He requires me to do things that I don't wish to do and would not if given a choice. However, I do these things because they are pleasing to Him. Over time, I'm finding pleasure in the those things as well, just because I am doing His will.

I have needs and wants all of which He requires me to communicate to Him. How, when and if these are met is His choice. I have a safeword which I have never used. Sometimes I wonder if i could use it. Because I do believe in SSC, I believe that I would if necessary.

I'm still learning and the depth of my submission seems to be evolving. Sadly, I don't always automatically think of Him first. I've said it before; I have a strong will. Like a couple of you, I have feared losing "me" on this journey. But, the reality is, He was first attracted to the person that I am. I don't believe that He would want me to lose "me" or become a doormat. And as Kayte said to me the other day, "a weak person or a doormat would not survive on this particular path". She's right. I'm strong and I have alot of pride. I carry quite a bit of responsibility in my professional life. It's a great relief to release that heavy load and just be His.

Am I a slave as defined by others? I don't have a clue and I don't really care. I simply am His.

 

[MoonduskSub]

Amazing...

Dear Zanna and Desdemona,
Thank you for your beautiful post..(Zanna that was not at all to long ) Please keep posting, one and all..
Blessings


Moonie

 

[subforchris]

I am very interested in this lifestyle. I want to be My Masters slave wholeheartedly but I have one problem. He does not know it. I have tried to tell him and it seems he lets it go in one ear and out the other. I love him very much and would so anything to make him happy. I submit to everything he asks me to do whether straight or sexually. How would I get my point across to him that I want him to be my Master instead of the man I live with .
I personally have anyother question to ass to this
topic.....how about a submissive slave? I have heard this phrase before and wonder if it is real or not

I love ti hear more on this subject

 

[T.J. Jackson]

His dominance doesn't begin or end with a scene, nor does my submission. It is just who we are. Submitting to His will is part of my daily life, whether I am physically at His side or not. I can honestly say that it isn't easy at times and I stumble. There are times when He requires me to do things that I don't wish to do and would not if given a choice. However, I do these things because they are pleasing to Him. Over time, I'm finding pleasure in the those things as well, just because I am doing His will.

Had to highlight this quote from Desdemona because of a conversation I had this morning.




We now return you to your regular posts.

 

[lark sparrow]

<snip>I personally have anyother question to ass to this
topic.....how about a submissive slave? I have heard this phrase before and wonder if it is real or not

I love ti hear more on this subject

Yes, as opposed to a dominant slave. I AM your slave - collar me NOW! You will subject me IMMEDIATELY!

I've never been able to figure that one out either, other than it being a string of convenient 's' words. Kind of like being a "dominate" Mistress/Master, as opposed to the ever popular submissive Dominant.

Important and subtle distinctions!

 

[Desdemona]

Had to highlight this quote from Desdemona because of a conversation I had this morning.




We now return you to your regular posts.

Thank you. Does this mean you agree with my thoughts or does it mean you think I'm full of it?

btw, call me des.