What do you tell the kids

[FurryFury]

but for some of us D/s is not our "sexual lifestyle" but simply our way of life, it's not relegated to sexuality, kink, or even solely a particular relationship, but is more of a worldview and/or one's nature. most can agree that a parent's sex life should not be displayed in front of children, but how does one hide an all-encompassing power dynamic? and moreover, why should it be hidden?

also i can understand tania's admission about being submissive to her children, and the difficulties that can cause. for some submissives, their submission is not a choice and it is not something that can be turned off based on a particular situation or relationship (like parent/child). it's why i know that i would not make a very good mother, at least not in the traditional sense, as i would be unable to be an authority or disciplinary figure and they would surely walk all over me. it is also why it would be ridiculous for me to ever be some sort of parental figure to my Master's son. so i certainly sympathize with the submissive mothers out there, and wonder how they do it.

When you are a parent you should, in my strong opinion, do what's best for the kids you have responsibility for. That means not shoving D/s or S/m into their faces on a daily basis.

If you are submissive and a parent, again, you have to step up and be the parent.

You are the adult, you should make the hard decisions or you shouldn't be a parent or attached to one who makes decisions you know are unhealthy for his or her kids.

That's just my opinion.

Yes, you can be a strong parent and be their friend at times. IMO, kids need both.

 

[intothewoods]

The interesting thing is that there isn't one way to parent. I happen to require a certain level of respect and manners in my home. I have friends who require less from their kids, and I think they're great parents. I have friends who require more, and I also think they are great parents. As far as discipline goes, as long as kids have a sense of boundaries, they'll be fine.

In a somewhat related vein, Mister Man was concerned about enforcing discipline as a step parent, as he doesn't see it as his place. I don't see it as his place either, but I also wouldn't want my kid to walk all over him. My solution is that there are rules of the house, and Mister Man would simply be reminding kidlet of the rules of the house. Also, my rule is that all adults are spoken to politely, so it's not as though he speaks to me as some queen and everyone else in some other way. I would recommend the "too submissive" parent take the same approach. Rules of the house are the rules of the house. Break them and there are consequences. Discipline actually works best when you're matter-of-fact about it anyway.

 

[ownedsubgal]

When you are a parent you should, in my strong opinion, do what's best for the kids you have responsibility for. That means not shoving D/s or S/m into their faces on a daily basis.

If you are submissive and a parent, again, you have to step up and be the parent.

You are the adult, you should make the hard decisions or you shouldn't be a parent or attached to one who makes decisions you know are unhealthy for his or her kids.

That's just my opinion.

Yes, you can be a strong parent and be their friend at times. IMO, kids need both.

again Furry, you act as if these things are a choice...being submissive or Dominant. maybe a person isn't submissive or Dominant because it's what they like or prefer, but simply because it is their nature and they are truly not able to be anything else. you mentioned earlier that your submission comes in the form of doing what is best for those you serve...whether it's your children or whoever else. however not all submissives have such control over their nature, and are not so able to adapt and put on different hats according to the circumstances.

on one point we very much agree...that as a parent or caretaker of children, you should always do what is best for them and their well-being. again that is the major reason why i have never desired children of my own, i know that my nature would make it very difficult for me to be what i consider to be an ideal, good parent...strong and authoratative when necessary, able to lead and guide. but i would never fault a submissive who, through either their own choices or life circumstances, is a single parent and doing best they can (like tania and many others).

as far as not "shoving" D/s into children's faces, how would it be possible (and why would it be healthy) to hide something so integral to your way of life and beliefs from the children under your roof? that'd be akin to being a devout christian or jew and never taking your children to church or synagogue and hiding your holy books. what would be the logic behind such deception? and how on earth could it make for a healthy, happy life for the child(ren)?

 

[Netzach]

I dig all submissive women in the world except my mother. I still hate that part of her personality with the hate of hot burning hot things.

I grew up with a mother who was submissive in front of me. Personality-wise.

That she was submissive to her mother isn't really that important - the fact is it was CLEAR to me that she wasn't the leader, and the leader was irrational passive and crazy herself. She was happy to roll over for someone completely irrational.

I have a lot of traits in my personality, built into it, that do not help me in certain contexts. They're me, they're natural, they're even good. But when they're not helping me, I have to put them away. I build a little mental shelf and I put it up. My natural Dominance is not going to help me out with customers. My natural tendency to talk a lot is not going to help me with a client who wants to talk and wants me to listen. You learn compartmentalization, you gain skills, you choose an awkward learned behavior and lo and behold it's helpful even if you hate doing it. It doesn't mean you have to LIVE that way, it doesn't mean I have to go be a slave because I chose a passive response to a friend with a problem or I went out of my comfort zone with my Gramma and said "whatever, she's old and crazy, why fight."

No one will admit the Dom they are seeing is anything less than perfect with the kids and fantastic for her and SOOO awesome, but this is one of the things about single women with new Masters and their own children that makes me, personally, cringe at times and for certain couples. It's not just the normal blended-family angst at play sometimes.

 

[FurryFury]

The interesting thing is that there isn't one way to parent. I happen to require a certain level of respect and manners in my home. I have friends who require less from their kids, and I think they're great parents. I have friends who require more, and I also think they are great parents. As far as discipline goes, as long as kids have a sense of boundaries, they'll be fine.

In a somewhat related vein, Mister Man was concerned about enforcing discipline as a step parent, as he doesn't see it as his place. I don't see it as his place either, but I also wouldn't want my kid to walk all over him. My solution is that there are rules of the house, and Mister Man would simply be reminding kidlet of the rules of the house. Also, my rule is that all adults are spoken to politely, so it's not as though he speaks to me as some queen and everyone else in some other way. I would recommend the "too submissive" parent take the same approach. Rules of the house are the rules of the house. Break them and there are consequences. Discipline actually works best when you're matter-of-fact about it anyway.

I agree with you.

However, I have many friends who don't parent worth a damn.

 

[FurryFury]

again Furry, you act as if these things are a choice...being submissive or Dominant. maybe a person isn't submissive or Dominant because it's what they like or prefer, but simply because it is their nature and they are truly not able to be anything else. you mentioned earlier that your submission comes in the form of doing what is best for those you serve...whether it's your children or whoever else. however not all submissives have such control over their nature, and are not so able to adapt and put on different hats according to the circumstances.[/b]

Then, in my opinion they are not the sort of people who should have or raise children. They are not parents. They are not acting as thoughtful adults.

on one point we very much agree...that as a parent or caretaker of children, you should always do what is best for them and their well-being. again that is the major reason why i have never desired children of my own, i know that my nature would make it very difficult for me to be what i consider to be an ideal, good parent...strong and authoratative when necessary, able to lead and guide. but i would never fault a submissive who, through either their own choices or life circumstances, is a single parent and doing best they can (like tania and many others).

I have a lot of sympathy for people who struggle to be good parents. I have none at all for those who give up because it's not "in their nature." To me children are both a privilege and a responsibility. I don't take it lightly. I don't think people should be excused from the hard necessary work because they "can't". They can. They just are choosing not to. Those kids will still grow up. Those kids will contribute society in positive or negative ways depending largely on how they were raised or not raised.

as far as not "shoving" D/s into children's faces, how would it be possible (and why would it be healthy) to hide something so integral to your way of life and beliefs from the children under your roof? that'd be akin to being a devout christian or jew and never taking your children to church or synagogue and hiding your holy books. what would be the logic behind such deception? and how on earth could it make for a healthy, happy life for the child(ren)?

It's not a religion period. There is no correlation at all that I can see to religion.

The logic would be that young kids can't understand and should not be subjected to certain things.

It's a life style that two or more adults choose. Yes, chose because many people have this in them but don't chose to live that way or do so only at certain times and ways.

As adults if they also choose to have kids in their lives, they need to again, be the adults and chose wisely, not selfishly, on what is best to put in their faces.

What they shouldn't do is be so selfish as to insist on putting things in kids faces, that kids can't understand. Such things can damage kids and their relationships with the adults in their lives. They can also damage kids abilities to have healthy relationships later. (Of course people do this all the time even though I don't believe they should get to.)

I personally believe if you are 24/7 there are ways for the PYL/pyl to be respectful of each other and the kids.

I just think you really need to be making things happen that way not acting like selfish children and doing what you want, figuring the kids will get sorted out someway or another. Honestly, I could never respect and accept someone who did act that selfishly as a partner of any kind.

 

[FurryFury]

I dig all submissive women in the world except my mother. I still hate that part of her personality with the hate of hot burning hot things.

I grew up with a mother who was submissive in front of me. Personality-wise.

That she was submissive to her mother isn't really that important - the fact is it was CLEAR to me that she wasn't the leader, and the leader was irrational passive and crazy herself. She was happy to roll over for someone completely irrational.

I have a lot of traits in my personality, built into it, that do not help me in certain contexts. They're me, they're natural, they're even good. But when they're not helping me, I have to put them away. I build a little mental shelf and I put it up. My natural Dominance is not going to help me out with customers. My natural tendency to talk a lot is not going to help me with a client who wants to talk and wants me to listen. You learn compartmentalization, you gain skills, you choose an awkward learned behavior and lo and behold it's helpful even if you hate doing it. It doesn't mean you have to LIVE that way, it doesn't mean I have to go be a slave because I chose a passive response to a friend with a problem or I went out of my comfort zone with my Gramma and said "whatever, she's old and crazy, why fight."

No one will admit the Dom they are seeing is anything less than perfect with the kids and fantastic for her and SOOO awesome, but this is one of the things about single women with new Masters and their own children that makes me, personally, cringe at times and for certain couples. It's not just the normal blended-family angst at play sometimes.

I totally agree.

 

[FurryFury]

BTW, I'm far from perfect. I'm not saying parents could or should be perfect. In fact the "p" word is not allowed in my home. (Yes, I do have issues how could you tell?)

There are days when I fail as a parent. I hate to discipline for instance. Generally, I'm very honest with my kids. I admit when I feel I've screwed up which I think is a great life lesson for them. I try to do better each day.

 

[intothewoods]

It's not a religion period. There is no correlation at all that I can see to religion.

The logic would be that young kids can't understand and should not be subjected to certain things.

It's a life style that two or more adults choose. Yes, chose because many people have this in them but don't chose to live that way or do so only at certain times and ways.

As adults if they also choose to have kids in their lives, they need to again, be the adults and chose wisely, not selfishly, on what is best to put in their faces.

What they shouldn't do is be so selfish as to insist on putting things in kids faces, that kids can't understand. Such things can damage kids and their relationships with the adults in their lives. They can also damage kids abilities to have healthy relationships later. (Of course people do this all the time even though I don't believe they should get to.)

I personally believe if you are 24/7 there are ways for the PYL/pyl to be respectful of each other and the kids.

I just think you really need to be making things happen that way not acting like selfish children and doing what you want, figuring the kids will get sorted out someway or another. Honestly, I could never respect and accept someone who did act that selfishly as a partner of any kind.

If you believe in male supremacy and male-led households, it is reasonable that you wouldn't hide it from your kids. It is similar to some religious families who see the father as God in the home, master of the home, etc.

I personally would not raise my child in such a household. My goal for a healthy couple raising kids is to have a partnership. That doesn't mean the partnership is equal every moment. Most couples don't sustain that. The power dynamic often shifts. But generally speaking, that's the kind of arrangement I like. And I want my child to see teamwork in action. Having said that, this is a free country, and people are free to raise their children with such beliefs, provided you don't break any laws (e.g., abuse your children, etc.). Assuming the pyl is not truly abused in front of the child, the PYL is free to not hide their lifestyle.

As to the logic behind hiding it, it does seem perfectly logical to me to say, okay, I've decided I want to be a slave to my Master, and that relationship suits me. However, it's hard to explain that this isn't the norm (heh, see other thread!) to a 5 year old, so we will then keep that dynamic private. It's a valid point of view to see M/s as a choice and not THE choice, and want to hide that dynamic from a young child until he or she is old enough to understand.

 

[intothewoods]

I agree with you.

However, I have many friends who don't parent worth a damn.

I only hang out with perfect people.

 

[gingermango]

If you believe in male supremacy and male-led households, it is reasonable that you wouldn't hide it from your kids. It is similar to some religious families who see the father as God in the home, master of the home, etc.

Versus . . .

It's a valid point of view to see M/s as a choice and not THE choice, and want to hide that dynamic from a young child until he or she is old enough to understand.

And that is obviously the dichotomy in question.

While I am submissive and choose to live my (private) life that way with my wife, for a great number of reasons we tend to be more egalitarian in most of the visible "family things" - our relationship works for us and I cannot say that it would work for my son or my daughters when it comes time for them to discover who they are.

 

[FurryFury]

I only hang out with perfect people.

*pout*

 

[Netzach]

Versus . . .



And that is obviously the dichotomy in question.

While I am submissive and choose to live my (private) life that way with my wife, for a great number of reasons we tend to be more egalitarian in most of the visible "family things" - our relationship works for us and I cannot say that it would work for my son or my daughters when it comes time for them to discover who they are.

Also nature is a bitch - you can model something till the cows come home and if it doesn't jive with their personhood, they're just going to reject you along with it and move really far away as soon as they can.

 

[FurryFury]

If you believe in male supremacy and male-led households, it is reasonable that you wouldn't hide it from your kids. It is similar to some religious families who see the father as God in the home, master of the home, etc.

I personally would not raise my child in such a household. My goal for a healthy couple raising kids is to have a partnership. That doesn't mean the partnership is equal every moment. Most couples don't sustain that. The power dynamic often shifts. But generally speaking, that's the kind of arrangement I like. And I want my child to see teamwork in action. Having said that, this is a free country, and people are free to raise their children with such beliefs, provided you don't break any laws (e.g., abuse your children, etc.). Assuming the pyl is not truly abused in front of the child, the PYL is free to not hide their lifestyle.

As to the logic behind hiding it, it does seem perfectly logical to me to say, okay, I've decided I want to be a slave to my Master, and that relationship suits me. However, it's hard to explain that this isn't the norm (heh, see other thread!) to a 5 year old, so we will then keep that dynamic private. It's a valid point of view to see M/s as a choice and not THE choice, and want to hide that dynamic from a young child until he or she is old enough to understand.

True, I mostly agree with your part in bold there. Truly the closest parellel I see is something like religious poligamy. That is if you want to draw a parellel between a 24/7 BDSM relationship and religion as a life style asking do your or do you not hide it from your kids.

If you believed for D/s or religious reasons that Men (or Women) should be the power of the house, you would not necessarily be exposing them to something that is so very different from friends or so hard to understand.

Many people do that and it's not necessarily D/s or S/m. If the only visible dynamic were Male first or Female first, I don't think that would be such a problem provided, as I've said, that respect for adults was given and expected.

The rest of what you posted, I totally agree with.

 

[FurryFury]

Also nature is a bitch - you can model something till the cows come home and if it doesn't jive with their personhood, they're just going to reject you along with it and move really far away as soon as they can.

Well that depends. Have you formed a close enough and loving bond with them?

Can they accept your differences?

Can you?

Hopefully.

 

[intothewoods]

Versus . . .



And that is obviously the dichotomy in question.

While I am submissive and choose to live my (private) life that way with my wife, for a great number of reasons we tend to be more egalitarian in most of the visible "family things" - our relationship works for us and I cannot say that it would work for my son or my daughters when it comes time for them to discover who they are.

I don't agree with it, but that's sort of the price we pay as Americans. People have the freedom to practice their own culture, so to speak. As long as they're not hurting anyone, we really can't say anything. And I think ultimately it's best that way. I would prefer to have the government out of my business.

Also nature is a bitch - you can model something till the cows come home and if it doesn't jive with their personhood, they're just going to reject you along with it and move really far away as soon as they can.

This is what I was saying in DB's thread! You can say we're all sex positive people who walk around naked, and your kid might be a prude. Stranger things have happened.

True, I mostly agree with your part in bold there. Truly the closest parellel I see is something like religious poligamy. That is if you want to draw a parellel between a 24/7 BDSM relationship and religion as a life style asking do your or do you not hide it from your kids.

If you believed for D/s or religious reasons that Men (or Women) should be the power of the house, you would not necessarily be exposing them to something that is so very different from friends or so hard to understand.

Many people do that and it's not necessarily D/s or S/m. If the only visible dynamic were Male first or Female first, I don't think that would be such a problem provided, as I've said, that respect for adults was given and expected.

The rest of what you posted, I totally agree with.

Did you follow the story about the kids taken from their homes from the polygamist compound in Texas? That was a tough story, because I don't like to see underage girls married off to much older men. I'm all for taking girls out of that scenario. On the other hand, they took away all the kids, and there were apparently kids who were so young they were still nursing, and cried all night because they were weaned early.

That's pretty shitty. I mean, that's their mother, right? I have no problem saying I disagree with someone's parental choices, but it is their choice at the end of the day, within reason.

 

[sexymom]

This issue is pretty much the same as that of a same sex couple raising children. For many years, this wasn't allowed, because we thought of it as flaunting our sexuality in front of the kids. Hmmmm- and then we learned that it was no more flaunting sexuality than married "normal" couples do- and we learned that knowing about who their parents love doesn't adversely affect the children. It's pretending you are something you're not that is harmful to children.

I don't think vanilla couples should pretend to their kids that they are "into" bdsm- that would be a bad thing. Similarly, I wonder about bdsm couples pretending that they are vanilla. Now, if they are really vanilla couples who sometimes play at being dominant and/or submissive, and can turn it off and on at will, I understand concealing it. If dominant, or submissive, is who or what you are, though, I think it's unfair, and harmful, to lie to your kids- just as it is to lie to them about being gay.

 

[FurryFury]

<snip>
Did you follow the story about the kids taken from their homes from the polygamist compound in Texas? That was a tough story, because I don't like to see underage girls married off to much older men. I'm all for taking girls out of that scenario. On the other hand, they took away all the kids, and there were apparently kids who were so young they were still nursing, and cried all night because they were weaned early.

That's pretty shitty. I mean, that's their mother, right? I have no problem saying I disagree with someone's parental choices, but it is their choice at the end of the day, within reason.

I did.

Frankly, I believe raising kids on a compound like that, brainwashed from day one, many of them with young girls as mothers, is wrong. It turns my stomach.

I was hoping those kids would see enough positives of the "outside" world (as I did in fifth grade), that it would pave the way for their freedom someday. At the very least it could help them have independent thought. As it turns out, it probably did nothing but scare them, making them cleave tighter to a way of life I find reprehensible for so many reasons.

If the people involved were adults deciding they wanted this raising kids with options I might feel differently.

 

[FurryFury]

This issue is pretty much the same as that of a same sex couple raising children. For many years, this wasn't allowed, because we thought of it as flaunting our sexuality in front of the kids. Hmmmm- and then we learned that it was no more flaunting sexuality than married "normal" couples do- and we learned that knowing about who their parents love doesn't adversely affect the children. It's pretending you are something you're not that is harmful to children.

I don't think vanilla couples should pretend to their kids that they are "into" bdsm- that would be a bad thing. Similarly, I wonder about bdsm couples pretending that they are vanilla. Now, if they are really vanilla couples who sometimes play at being dominant and/or submissive, and can turn it off and on at will, I understand concealing it. If dominant, or submissive, is who or what you are, though, I think it's unfair, and harmful, to lie to your kids- just as it is to lie to them about being gay.

I've never had a problem with the idea of gay couples raising kids. What I have a problem with is people raising kids who are not able to act like adults and parent. I also have a problem when they don't foster respect and rules.

I don't thinking keeping your sexual preferences where they belong, in the bedroom rather than shoving them in the kid's faces, is harmful to kids or lying. No one needs to "play" at anything.

I see some don't agree. Some seem to be saying, "I MUST be who I am and that means I MUST shove my sex life into the kids faces."

Okay, find. You are going to do what you are going to do. So go ahead, try that. Be thankful you live in a country that allows you that freedom.I wish you and the kids well with it. I just doubt much good will come of it.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I don't tell my kids anything about my D/s relationship. I've only told two people about it. My husband and my sister. The only reason I told my sister is for a safety back-up. She is also the one who would notify my PYL if I were seriously injured or killed. I wouldn't want to put that burden on my husband.

But my kids (middle school age) know nothing about it. Of course I don't live with my PYL. But my trips to see Daddy are "work conferences". THey know I stay up very late talking to friends.

I have a open easy relationship with my kids. We discuss sex and alternative lifestyles quite often. They know that I very much enjoy sex, that their father and I love each other and have sex often. (They have asked when I lost my virginity. I haven't told them that answer since I lost it when I was raped as a teen. It is not something I am ready to tell them. )

I don't thik I will ever tell my kids about my D/s relationship. I might tell them I am very familiar with BDSM, but I can't see a need to tell them that their Mom was involved with another man while they were growing up. I don't see any advantages to telling them.

 

[sexymom]

I don't think anyone is advocating having sex in front of the kids. You can be gay without having sex in the presence of others- you're still gay. You can be submissive (or dominant) without having sex in the presence of kids- but you're still submissive- UNLESS your dominance or submission is a bedroom role playing thing. In that case, you're right. My comments were not about those types.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think it's accurate to characterize deferring to everyone as submissive. I know a few submissives to their core who are from traditional cultures and absolutely defer to their husbands on everything, and have submissive personalities with other adults. However, they have no problems acting as the authority figure to their kids. It's how they were raised and is part of their culture. The women defer to the men, but the women raise the children.

 

[Quinn71]

I was thinking about one of the gals I went with to Tucson walking home tonight from the store. She did some of the fire play stuff and her kid say the after effects of it. I am not quite sure how she explained the injury to the kid. So I ask the parents that post here what do you or would you tell your kids about why mommy and daddy are hurt. Is this a time where being less then truthful with your sons and daughters is ok??

I think we need to preserve childrens innocence as long as possible. There is a severe lack of innocence among kids today.
So I would say it is OK to lie in this instance.

 

[gingermango]

I don't think it's accurate to characterize deferring to everyone as submissive. I know a few submissives to their core who are from traditional cultures and absolutely defer to their husbands on everything, and have submissive personalities with other adults. However, they have no problems acting as the authority figure to their kids. It's how they were raised and is part of their culture. The women defer to the men, but the women raise the children.

That's something that I think is being missed by some people in this thread. Look, I am as subbie as they come. Sexually and otherwise, I have submitted to my wife. However, I chose to give that submission to her. That does not mean I am submissive to any bossy asshole that wanders by, nor that I am submissive in front of kids who need parenting. I will defer to my wife when appropriate and necessary, but if the kids are acting out of line or need direction, I will not kneel at the door waiting for my adoring Goddess to get home. Instead I'll make the kids do their damned chores like they are supposed to or send them to the their rooms if they smart off about it.

It's called being a parent. Kids need that full-time, even if I am submissive in my relationship with my wife.

 

[sexymom]

Good point, Ginger. I couldn't imagine submitting to my kids. That would be stranger than lying to them about being submissive to my husband. Submitting to kids and lying to kids are both unacceptable in my world.