What is a fake Dominant?

[Pure]

Lunar Kitten: Fake tops just don't care what you like. They only care about what they really like to do, and that they are going to get off on it in the end, regardless of if you do or not.

you are defining a 'sensitive guy' (by implication that is: you're directly defining an 'insensitive guy'). are you perhaps writing a book called 'real tops cuddle a lot'?

---
i hear ya, marquis!

 

[alice_underneath]

Many of the responses on this thread imply a definition of the noun 'Dominant' as an ideal, rather than a tangible role or sexual proclivity.

Either that, or some here are assuming that 'fake' is synonymous with undesirable or dangerous or bad.

One exception is B's cogent response to the question at hand.

You're a fake if you lie about what you want --- if you don't really desire to dominate then you're a fake. If you truly wish to dominate but don't have the skill for it then you're just unsucessful.

A fake anything is simply a fraudulent representation of the genuine.

B's response here is therefore eminently reasonable, given her personal definition of the noun Dominant, (provided earlier on a different thread.)

If someone gets a sexual charge out of telling other people what to do that person is a Dominant.

 

[Pure]

thread url

the thread to which A refers, to which bridgeburner posted, is on dom wannabes; its content overlaps this one.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=281860

 

[Netzach]

You're a fake if you lie about what you want --- if you don't really desire to dominate then you're a fake. If you truly wish to dominate but don't have the skill for it then you're just unsucessful.

ba da bing

I think "fake Dominant" is a PC evasion when we want to say "crap Dominant"

 

[Netzach]

Good Dominance

is like good art, largely subjective, but you can have criteria for assessment


1. are you communicating what you want to communicate without mucking up your intent with lots of stuff that just confuses

2. is your technique developed in a way that backs up what you're trying to say?

3. is there time, effort, and risk being demonstrated?

 

[Pure]

good dominance

do you mind saying if you mean 'morally good dominance' or simply
'excellently- or well-executed' dominance? or maybe 'clear, candid and competently executed dominance'?

 

[Netzach]

do you mind saying if you mean 'morally good dominance' or simply
'excellently- or well-executed' dominance? or maybe 'clear, candid and competently executed dominance'?

I think I mean the latter. The former, I don't think is that hard. A modicum of empathy and you're there, no more really than you need in doing business or walking out the door in the morning to get a paper, you can do those things a little anti-socially but you're not out to kill or maim and you're fine.

I think I'm outlining a base minuimum in terms of "care and concern" - I think that if people were less freaked out about romance and more freaked out about communicating effectively with one another you'd see less roadkill.

 

[Pure]

thanks for clarifying.

what do you mean about people being 'freaked out over romance'--you mean obsessed with it and/or dying to have it? or scared of it? or...

 

[HotKittySpank]

Hi- I'd like to offer something here...

What about people who are 'afraid' to really Dom someone they have been with for a while? What if they were afraid they will damage the relationship if they really did what they wanted too? Which is create a real D/s relationship not just play at it sometimes.

Trust and equallity are important in a long term relationship so...? And I do understand that is a HUGE part of the D/s relationship.

My feelings on this is that D/s is more of a mental and relationship thing than a purely whips and chains thing.

Please don't yell at me - ok? I have a hard enough time asking anything real on this subject as it is. : )

 

[Netzach]

what do you mean about people being 'freaked out over romance'--you mean obsessed with it and/or dying to have it? or scared of it? or...

I mean obsessed with it to the point where it's "better" or "necessary" for a relationship to be considered deep, real, or important.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Hi- I'd like to offer something here...

What about people who are 'afraid' to really Dom someone they have been with for a while? What if they were afraid they will damage the relationship if they really did what they wanted too? Which is create a real D/s relationship not just play at it sometimes.

Hmmm. Fear is not a good emotion for a dominant to have. The dominant is has the greater responsibility to see that things go well. So it is a good idea to find out why you are afraid, and deal with it before you grab a whip.

Trust and equallity are important in a long term relationship so...? And I do understand that is a HUGE part of the D/s relationship.

We have agreement there.


My feelings on this is that D/s is more of a mental and relationship thing than a purely whips and chains thing.

This is a huge topic. Whips and chains and D/s are not ncessarily the same thing.
There are thousands of ways to have a relationship in this lifestyle. The bell curve holds true in D/s also.

Please don't yell at me - ok? I have a hard enough time asking anything real on this subject as it is. : )

I personally would not dream of yelling at you. lol

Mistress Ebonyfire

 

[Pure]

to hot kitty

What about people who are 'afraid' to really Dom someone they have been with for a while? What if they were afraid they will damage the relationship if they really did what they wanted too? Which is create a real D/s relationship not just play at it sometimes.

My suggestion is as follows. But noting that established relationships cannot easily be vastly changed:

This person who want to "Dominate," call him or her, D.

If it's bedroom domination we're talking, why doesn't D just say, "I'm intrigued by certain role play set ups; they're hot. maybe you'd like it. I wish to be in command and control--as if I were the jailguard or the cop; you resist, but submit"

Then see how it goes. If it doesn't do anything for the other, D can always say, "It was just an idea. Let's forget it." I don't see any damage being done.

IF D wants to assume domination generally, over everything, that's a bit trickier, but why not be up front; D says,

"I'm ok with equal sharing and decision making, etc. But part of me wants something more like in previous times when one partner--that would be me-- is the leader or captain. The other is listened to and respected, and cared for, but steps back from any dominating position, and adapts to it. The leader would be responsible as well for initiating any sexual events and would direct how they unfold."

Let them try for a month to have D 'run the show', and then see how they both feel. I think it would depend on whether the other 1) felt things were being run well, and 2) discovered s/he enjoyed lesser 'power,' i.e., enjoyed resigning from a more equal position.

It could also be done in increments; D taking over more and more decisions.

----
I have trouble expecting the latter to work, though it has been done in a slightly different case: where one partner is subordinate, but gradually assumes resposibility for more and more, and becomees essentially equal. If that can be done, maybe assumption of UNequal power can occur. (I note that even attempts, like just mentioned, to equalize, often fizzled. In most relationships the disposition of 'power' in a general sense is establish in the early period.

 

[Marquis]

I think that sometimes our ideas can become so insulated by our community that we might lose touch with the reality of the vanilla world.

Sharing your desire to be utterly dominant with your partner can be a rightfully terrifying experience because it has the potential to change the way he/she views you forever. A number of people would be so incredibly put off by this desire that every conflict could now be viewed as a power struggle to be won, thus having the opposite effect as intended.

Although I'm usually a very laid back person, I can get very competitive at times. I was very competitive with my social circle in college over silly things like video games and board games. Consequently, they would constantly team up on me to make sure I didn't have the satisfaction of being the dominant player.

 

[Pure]

welcome back,

ms. ebony fire. it's great to see an 'old hand' and knowledgeable person posting again.




--
PS. to marquis and kitty,
if we're talking overall and outside the bedroom, i was not suggesting at the start to 'share' (tell about) a desire to be utterly dominant (if that's what D has in mind). i was suggesting trying a smaller dose, if you like.
if we're talking in the bedroom, a high degree of 'dominance,' commanding the events, might be tried, with agreement, but framed as a 'role play.'

 

[FurryFury]

ba da bing

I think "fake Dominant" is a PC evasion when we want to say "crap Dominant"

A good nutshell definition if I ever heard one! *L*

I can just hear it now, "Um, excuse me, could you move your "crap Dominant" outta my way?"

LMAO

Nobody cuts the crap like you Netzach! That's part of why I LOVE you! *smiles*

is like good art, largely subjective, but you can have criteria for assessment


1. are you communicating what you want to communicate without mucking up your intent with lots of stuff that just confuses

2. is your technique developed in a way that backs up what you're trying to say?

3. is there time, effort, and risk being demonstrated?

Why risk?

*cocks head inquiringly*

Fury

Hi- I'd like to offer something here...

What about people who are 'afraid' to really Dom someone they have been with for a while? What if they were afraid they will damage the relationship if they really did what they wanted too? Which is create a real D/s relationship not just play at it sometimes.

Trust and equallity are important in a long term relationship so...? And I do understand that is a HUGE part of the D/s relationship.

My feelings on this is that D/s is more of a mental and relationship thing than a purely whips and chains thing.

Please don't yell at me - ok? I have a hard enough time asking anything real on this subject as it is. : )

Okay, I won't yell, I promise! *smiles*

This is where trust and communication as well as a need to make and keep the other person happy, come into play IMO.

(Of course we all accept that we and only we make ourselves happy right? Mixed message I know.)

OTOH, I believe that though we may all have some kink in us, many refuse to look at it because they are too afraid to examine themselves that closely. When you are accepted, truly accepted, no matter what, it facilitates being able to look inside those gray areas IMO.

I also do not believe you can make a person who at his or her core is not sexually Dominant a Dom or, for that matter, anything they don't feel.

You can both try different things for each other but inside you will know if it feels like "you" or not. How far out of your comfort zone is it? Too far to try again for the person you love? If they love you will they "make" you?

I regularly take the lead in scenes and so does my husband but we are not switches or Doms in our hearts. We are just two subs trying to make the other happy and doing rather well at it, most of the time.

One last thing, it took us a while to recognize what we were and liked. I was *gasp* 44. If I had tried things earlier I might have known this all along but I was too afraid of a lot of things not the least of which was myself. The point is, people often don't know everything about their sexual turn ons, kinks, orientation and so on until they start looking honestly at themselves and giving themselves permission to be however they are.

Good luck with your journey.

Fury

do you mind saying if you mean 'morally good dominance' or simply
'excellently- or well-executed' dominance? or maybe 'clear, candid and competently executed dominance'?

What about people who are 'afraid' to really Dom someone they have been with for a while? What if they were afraid they will damage the relationship if they really did what they wanted too? Which is create a real D/s relationship not just play at it sometimes.

My suggestion is as follows. But noting that established relationships cannot easily be vastly changed:

This person who want to "Dominate," call him or her, D.

If it's bedroom domination we're talking, why doesn't D just say, "I'm intrigued by certain role play set ups; they're hot. maybe you'd like it. I wish to be in command and control--as if I were the jailguard or the cop; you resist, but submit"

Then see how it goes. If it doesn't do anything for the other, D can always say, "It was just an idea. Let's forget it." I don't see any damage being done.

IF D wants to assume domination generally, over everything, that's a bit trickier, but why not be up front; D says,

"I'm ok with equal sharing and decision making, etc. But part of me wants something more like in previous times when one partner--that would be me-- is the leader or captain. The other is listened to and respected, and cared for, but steps back from any dominating position, and adapts to it. The leader would be responsible as well for initiating any sexual events and would direct how they unfold."

Let them try for a month to have D 'run the show', and then see how they both feel. I think it would depend on whether the other 1) felt things were being run well, and 2) discovered s/he enjoyed lesser 'power,' i.e., enjoyed resigning from a more equal position.

It could also be done in increments; D taking over more and more decisions.

----
I have trouble expecting the latter to work, though it has been done in a slightly different case: where one partner is subordinate, but gradually assumes resposibility for more and more, and becomees essentially equal. If that can be done, maybe assumption of UNequal power can occur. (I note that even attempts, like just mentioned, to equalize, often fizzled. In most relationships the disposition of 'power' in a general sense is establish in the early period.

Pure, you are concerned about morals being or not being in BDSM. I am not. I don't understand why this keeps coming up in your posts and threads. Do you want it to be dark, evil and immoral or do you not want it to? I can't tell.

IMO, Morals, evil, darkness and so on, are either present with the people you are involved with or they are not. To me it doesn't matter if you have a simple friendship, family relationship, vanilla sex or kinky stuff going on, it's the base person(s) you are dealing with that makes or breaks that line for me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do not believe BDSM is inherently any less moral than any other type of relationship in this world.

Now, I'm not trying to pick on you Pure but I have to disagree too that an established relationship can't be vastly changed. I disagree because I've seen people drastically change and their relationships do as well.

I don't believe once vanilla, always vanilla as some have stated on here either. I've been working at corrupting my husband steadily for a while. Though he may never become a Dom, he is quite kinky in his own ways. We can work with that.

I do agree communication is the key. If you love someone and they are obsessed with something that hurts no one in a significant way, why would you not at least try it? When I say try it, I mean, more than once. Rarely do you get something new right the first time. Often you need to give it time to become part of your mental landscape. You have to go slow, communicate a ton, and see where the journey leads.

If you don't have the kind of love in which you would try things you are not sure of for the one in your life, then I think that is sad. By the same token if you don't have the kind of love where you would give up something you deeply wanted for that person, I think that is sad too. To me this is part of caring about another. You try things, or at times give up things in order to try to grow with them and they do the same for you. At times you may decide you are just simply not both into something, it's then that you give each other the freedom to pursue their passion whatever it may be and still be loved by you.

As far as taking over for a month at a time EVERYTHING? God that's a loooong time! LOL! My ex and I went to a marriage counselor once and she had use each take charge for something like three days. His fucking three days were hell but he wasn't a Dom. He was an evil fuck from hell. *smiles sweetly*

Fury

 

[Ebonyfire]

Sharing your desire to be utterly dominant with your partner can be a rightfully terrifying experience because it has the potential to change the way he/she views you forever. A number of people would be so incredibly put off by this desire that every conflict could now be viewed as a power struggle to be won, thus having the opposite effect as intended.

Absolutely! I talk to married and partnered men and women every day who express the fear that they will lose the love and respect of their SO if they "come clean", yet they are not happy because they are not getting their need met.

Which is why I spend a lot of time helping submissive men and women look for a dominant mate.

I have found that it is very hard for people to hide their true nature over a long period of time. This not only promotes more stress in an already stress filled life, but it is counter to a person having a balanced life.

So sometimes being honest about your needs means you risk the loss of the loved one you already have.

It is not easy to do this.

Eb

 

[FurryFury]

Absolutely! I talk to married and partnered men and women every day who express the fear that they will lose the love and respect of their SO if they "come clean", yet they are not happy because they are not getting their need met.

Which is why I spend a lot of time helping submissive men and women look for a dominant mate.

I have found that it is very hard for people to hide their true nature over a long period of time. This not only promotes more stress in an already stress filled life, but it is counter to a person having a balanced life.

So sometimes being honest about your needs means you risk the loss of the loved one you already have.

It is not easy to do this.

Eb

I agree. I think you take it a bit slower than that. Like, "Hey honey, now that I've done that thing that you wanted, you know what I would really like to do sometime, X, what do you say?" Work up to it with communication, giving and small steps, that's my way. *shrugs*

Fury

 

[Ebonyfire]

ms. ebony fire. it's great to see an 'old hand' and knowledgeable person posting again.

Thanks!

 

[HotKittySpank]

ok - let me clarify, I'm definitely the sub in my relationship. I will not be whipping anyone any time soon... : ) Over the years I slowly and methodically let him take control of most of our lives(long history with bad guys is to blame) and we are truly happy. I need it that way - he knows I was born to be kept.

What I struggle with is making him understand that I want to be tied up, hit, bit, etc. He does it sometimes but not nearly hard enough - and I have no voice, too shy(ashamed?) to ask. It took years for me to even make a sound during sex and now I have to ask for something?

I feel like if I have to ask then its not real - it will just be play. Perhaps he is afraid?
confusing...oh i'm so screwed up! --HKS

 

[FurryFury]

ok - let me clarify, I'm definitely the sub in my relationship. I will not be whipping anyone any time soon... : ) Over the years I slowly and methodically let him take control of most of our lives(long history with bad guys is to blame) and we are truly happy. I need it that way - he knows I was born to be kept.

What I struggle with is making him understand that I want to be tied up, hit, bit, etc. He does it sometimes but not nearly hard enough - and I have no voice, too shy(ashamed?) to ask. It took years for me to even make a sound during sex and now I have to ask for something?

I feel like if I have to ask then its not real - it will just be play. Perhaps he is afraid?
confusing...oh i'm so screwed up! --HKS

I know it's hard. I've been the same way about many things. When I was younger I couldn't talk about sex at all and it didn't lead to good things. I am very quiet during sex but now that I've opened up I am able to make more noise.

You can't expect him to read your mind. Love isn't just magically knowing what the other person wants as media has lead many of us to believe. That's bullshit.

Communication is key, you have to find a way to talk about this stuff. It sometimes helps to talk in the car where you don't have to look at each other, or send stories with key things in them that you would love. I'm sure there are ways to communicate your desires that maybe aren't quite so scary, you know?

Honestly, I told my husband that I was absolutely obsessed with spanking online and what it did to me, which was a lot of very hot things and some counting problems, (LOL) but I also told him I might turn around and slug him if he tried it in RL or I might come, hard to say till we tried it. Maybe he took that as a challenge but eventually, he started experimenting with it and it's GREAT!!! There is nothing I like better to start off with, for me it relieves stress, releases guilt and so on. Viva la spanking! Woo.

Um, so anyway, find a way to talk with him. It's a good thing to do, I promise.

Fury

 

[HotKittySpank]

Hey - Thanks Fury. Yep, I told him a couple of times what I wanted.

I've written very nasty tales just for him. He just doesn't do it hard enough that's why I mentioned fear. Like when he ties me up - I can easily escape. When he spanks me or flogs me its not hard enough. When he chokes me its not long enough. You know how you can 'drop out' when its just right? He only takes me to the door - doesn't march me right though it. And the whole time, he's asking me if it's ok. I think he might fear doing these things to me because I am his wife.

I got very sad when he told me that he fanatasized about 'teaching' a girl friend of ours 'a lesson'. He seemed so filled with passion and power and I want that part of him to control me too.

It was very embarrasing to have to ask for this but I'll be brave and ask again. --HKS

 

[Pure]

hi kitty,
your original account wasn't clear, but if the question is how the non dom/me partner can 'make' a dom/me of the other, it's an old puzzle.

if it were just the bedroom, maybe it could be gradually role played, but there is a basic paradox if someone says, "i'll be the slave and you be the master'. you can, of course, say 'you be a very harsh master that whips, flogs, chokes, punishes without mercy' but if he doesn't pick up the ball and run with it, then you're still the boss, however tied.

many have tried, and you'll hear from them. i think it's no different from any other basic change one wants in the other; don't bet the ranch on it.

 

[FurryFury]

Hey - Thanks Fury. Yep, I told him a couple of times what I wanted.

I've written very nasty tales just for him. He just doesn't do it hard enough that's why I mentioned fear. Like when he ties me up - I can easily escape. When he spanks me or flogs me its not hard enough. When he chokes me its not long enough. You know how you can 'drop out' when its just right? He only takes me to the door - doesn't march me right though it. And the whole time, he's asking me if it's ok. I think he might fear doing these things to me because I am his wife.

I got very sad when he told me that he fanatasized about 'teaching' a girl friend of ours 'a lesson'. He seemed so filled with passion and power and I want that part of him to control me too.

It was very embarrasing to have to ask for this but I'll be brave and ask again. --HKS

He needs constant reassurance but that probably won't last forever. A year or two is my guess. My advice is this, tell him you love when he plays hard with you.

Praise him to the hills when he does anything the least bit hard or tight.

Tell him you would love him to take a picture of your ass red or hand printed.

Tell him you would like him to pretend you are the one who needs to be taught a lesson.

And every single time he asks is this okay, say yes, I love it, it's better than okay. You can even go harder or tighter, lover, whatever YOU want.

Every time he asks if it hurts say, yes, it feels so great when it hurts a little! Maybe you could make it feel better? Then wink or whatever trips his trigger, wiggle your ass, whatever, you know what does it.

On the tying up thing, you can give him hints there too. Such as, you know when you saddle a horse? You have to cinch that saddle tight or it can come right off. Well you might want to tickle me so you can tie me real tight. Or if my hands can touch each other I can easily get out of this, in other words, practical advice carefully said.

Just some thoughts,

Fury

 

[HotKittySpank]

yea! Thank you for the great suggestions. I know I just need to be bold but then that ruins it for me during. This would best be a conversation before sex not during for me as I seem to check out mentally and wish during...

He LOVES to take pictures of me... I will suggest the hand print!

hugs! --HKS

 

[LunarKitten]

Lunar Kitten: Fake tops just don't care what you like. They only care about what they really like to do, and that they are going to get off on it in the end, regardless of if you do or not.

you are defining a 'sensitive guy' (by implication that is: you're directly defining an 'insensitive guy'). are you perhaps writing a book called 'real tops cuddle a lot'?

---
i hear ya, marquis!

Hey, I like cuddling

Nah, not just insensitive, but completely uncaring. Afterall, what kind of power exchange can you get when it's totally one sided. Yeah, the bottom may put up with it for a while, may even really like the way their needs are ignored for a while, but then the shiny newness of the relationship wears off and it ends.

I'm not saying that all tops should coddle and coo to their bottoms, I'm not even saying that all tops should feel affection for their bottoms - but they should care about their bottoms' needs. You can only use that cane they absolutely hate so many times before the bottom start to rebel against your style of play. Pushing limits is one thing, using toys they hate is one thing, but never, ever giving them anything THEY like...well, that's kind of stupid, in my books - because it's a total relationship ender.

Of course, the fake doms don't care about all of this...after all, there is always another bottom out there to fall for their lines for a little while longer...