What's a Submissive to Do?

[AngelicAssassin]

... there is a difference between impact play and punishment.

Yep. In one you get your ass beat. In the other you get left alone.

 

[JMohegan]

I've fucked and played hard early on in casual dating. But in the end, it always seemed as if I had just been using these women to address an urgent need rather than building a sustainable relationship.

I find slow & steady à la Babiesmiles to be far more satisfying in the long run. It's possible that this guy does, too.

What's a Submissive to Do?

In post 14, you express fear that he's stringing you along and doesn't possess the skills or inclination to play hard.

The implication of post 27 is that the insight of faceless, anonymous members of a message board is superior to his own.

Please excuse my bluntness (and feel free to call me old-fashioned), but it sounds as if you don't yet trust this guy enough to be tied up and whupped by him - no matter how badly you want it.

In other words, he could be right. You need more time.

 

[HotKittySpank]

I've dealt with the whole "why haven't you raped/beaten/spanked/choked/bound/instructed me yet?!" more times than I care to recall.

All it makes me want to do is put my cock in her mouth, give her a kiss on the forehead and go home.

Well, isn't that just you taking the reins? There is nothing wrong with that. Anticipation makes the heart grow fonder... or some drivel like that.

many respects...

 

[Blushing Bottom]

The words of a Dom who knows how to punish. Nothing is more distressing to me than to be ignored. And ironically was exactly the way this scenario played out. I didn't get my ass beat and was lectured for trying to top from the bottom. After which he read the newspaper and went home, much to my chagrin.

...and I? Well waiting...still.

d

Yep. In one you get your ass beat. In the other you get left alone.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

So then this occurance though perhaps not common happen from time to time in other D/s relationships.
The man I refer to is Dominant without a doubt and I guess my lack of experience causes me to think inside the box still.

Thanks for this insight.

d

I've dealt with the whole "why haven't you raped/beaten/spanked/choked/bound/instructed me yet?!" more times than I care to recall.

All it makes me want to do is put my cock in her mouth, give her a kiss on the forehead and go home.

 

[alice_underneath]

I have just this moment been promised an "ass blistering" tonight for my whining about my sex life in public.

Leaving aside issues relating to appropriate punishment and topping from the bottom, I'd like to make a few points about the phrase I've colored red.

First of all, I did not read your tone as 'whining'.

Further, many people - both PYLs and pyls - make comments on this board about problems they are having with their SOs. More often than not, these problems include the ways in which the SOs are failing to meet their sexual needs. Some write at length, and in far more explicit detail than you have done here.

While I have a keen appreciation for privacy within an intimate relationship, I am compelled to point out that you may have few, if any, contacts in the 3-d world who are experienced in D/s. Unless you have developed a network of experienced PM contacts here, your options for obtaining advice would therefore be limited indeed.

Suggesting that your partner read this thread to gain superior insight may have been less than wise or diplomatic, but I'm not convinced that you were wrong to come here seeking advice in the first place. This is, after all, an anonymous board.

Everyone needs a way to discuss frustrations & problems with someone other than their SO, but it seems to me that this is especially true for an inexperienced pyl in a new relationship. Given your partner's reaction to this thread, Lit may no longer be an avenue that is open to you. However, I sincerely hope you find another one.

Respectfully,
Alice

 

[FurryFury]

The words of a Dom who knows how to punish. Nothing is more distressing to me than to be ignored. And ironically was exactly the way this scenario played out. I didn't get my ass beat and was lectured for trying to top from the bottom. After which he read the newspaper and went home, much to my chagrin.

...and I? Well waiting...still.

d

Wow, that sucks. Why is he playing so hard to get I wonder? Maybe he has others he plays with? Maybe he has Dom performance anxiety? Two months, no scenes, no sex? I'd be waaaaaaay frustrated.

You wouldn't like me when I'm frustrated.

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

Perhaps Alice, but IME Dom/mes usually do not appreciate it being discussed publicly at all, and for many, with anyone other than them. It is understandable given the nature of the relationship and the belief that trust has to be present for it to develop and grow, and part of that trust is often about being discreet about certain things, especially if the discussion has not been had in depth between the people actually concerned. To do otherwise can be seen as putting the Dom/me in a bad light, presenting only one side of the issue, turning to others in place of your Dom/me, and being disrespectful and breaking trust. I know for one, F would not have tolerated it or seen it as anything other than majorly negative and signs trust did not exist, perhaps early in a relationship even a deal breaker. It's a bit like the vanilla version of not airing your dirty laundry in public.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Wow, that sucks.

i think that's part of the problem ... she/he isn't ...

Why is he playing so hard to get I wonder?

Why do you call it hard to get?

Maybe he has others he plays with?

Possible, but we haven't heard anything indicating that as of yet.

Maybe he has Dom performance anxiety? Two months, no scenes, no sex?

No clue if he needs little blue pills, wants to establish a certain level of control, decided to withhold intimacy as part of the relationship up front. We don't know because we haven't heard the other side of the story.

I'd be waaaaaaay frustrated.

You wouldn't like me when I'm frustrated.

Fury

Going to She-Hulk out on us dear?

 

[Marquis]

Hot.

 

[FurryFury]

i think that's part of the problem ... she/he isn't ... Why do you call it hard to get?Possible, but we haven't heard anything indicating that as of yet.No clue if he needs little blue pills, wants to establish a certain level of control, decided to withhold intimacy as part of the relationship up front. We don't know because we haven't heard the other side of the story.Going to She-Hulk out on us dear?

Good points there AA and She-Hulk has some REALLY good points.

Fury

 

[JMohegan]

IME Dom/mes usually do not appreciate it being discussed publicly at all, and for many, with anyone other than them.

Years ago, I participated in the drafting of a pamphlet on Red Flags for submissives. The project itself was predictably controversial, but no issue left more blood on the floor than this one right here.

Red Flag #3: A Dom/me who forbids disclosure or discussion of any material aspect of the relationship with others, without his/her prior consent.

It is understandable given the nature of the relationship and the belief that trust has to be present for it to develop and grow, and part of that trust is often about being discreet about certain things, especially if the discussion has not been had in depth between the people actually concerned. To do otherwise can be seen as putting the Dom/me in a bad light, presenting only one side of the issue, turning to others in place of your Dom/me, and being disrespectful and breaking trust.

This is a more eloquent and thorough version of the point I made yesterday.

OTOH, I am wary of discouraging inexperienced submissives from seeking outside advice about a new relationship. There are too many abusers, poseurs, and plain old incompetent boobs running around for me to feel comfortable telling an inexperienced sub that she's being insolent or wicked in doing so.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Red Flag #3: A Dom/me who forbids disclosure or discussion of any material aspect of the relationship with others, without his/her prior consent.

This is a red flag in conventional relationships too. This can be the first step an abuser may take to to alienate their "victim" from others (i.e. friends, family,). What better way to start this by restricting the information that can be discussed with others.

I wonder though if these things happen more to women that men. Males submissives are usually concerned about discretion to the point that they rarely discuss any details of their personal lives with others. At least this has been my experience with male subs.

EB

 

[catalina_francisco]

Years ago, I participated in the drafting of a pamphlet on Red Flags for submissives. The project itself was predictably controversial, but no issue left more blood on the floor than this one right here.

Red Flag #3: A Dom/me who forbids disclosure or discussion of any material aspect of the relationship with others, without his/her prior consent.

This is a more eloquent and thorough version of the point I made yesterday.

OTOH, I am wary of discouraging inexperienced submissives from seeking outside advice about a new relationship. There are too many abusers, poseurs, and plain old incompetent boobs running around for me to feel comfortable telling an inexperienced sub that she's being insolent or wicked in doing so.

True, but there are ways and there are ways...you can ask in a totally rhetorical way, respectfully, disconnected in part and presented in a way which does not so much automatically place the other in a bad light in others' eyes but looks at seeking knowledge, answers, various P'sOV so they can make an informed decision or you can present a one sided picture, seem to come across as being wronged, looking for support against the Dom/me, looking for the 'you are right, s/he is bad' answer, often without being totally honest with the person personally involved. I don't think BB was doing that, but some do and some though proclaiming submissiveness want it all their way and many are more than willing to support them in that desire. By all means a new submissive can learn from others, as may do on this forum by reading, posting, discussin, but it doesn't have to be in a way which competes with the rightful authority and position of the Dom/me.

The red flag thing is fine, but bottom line is a relationship is between 2 (sometimes more) people, not a whole community, and it is those people actually involved who deserve the courtesy and respect of knowing when things are not going well, and a chance to discuss it BEFORE those outside the relationship are asked to come in and give their thoughts, especially when they do not have a full picture from which to draw relevant information from. I discuss many things about our relationship here, but only to a certain level and never anything which he would feel stunned to see here as a result of my not discussing with him first...and though I look at the opinons and thoughts of others to inform my own, I do not allow them to take the lead in making important decisions within our relationship as we are the only people who can do that.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

This is a red flag in conventional relationships too. This can be the first step an abuser may take to to alienate their "victim" from others (i.e. friends, family,). What better way to start this by restricting the information that can be discussed with others.

I wonder though if these things happen more to women that men. Males submissives are usually concerned about discretion to the point that they rarely discuss any details of their personal lives with others. At least this has been my experience with male subs.

EB

Yes.

Every once in a while I will work with someone who is probably more grateful for the 15 minutes or so after a session in which he has a real live person with BDSM interest listening to him than he was for the session. Male bottoms don't often have confidants, don't often pipe up on message boards, and often are left to sort out their feelings flying totally solo and feeling guilty about every little thing for years.

It's not a pretty sight.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Yes.

Every once in a while I will work with someone who is probably more grateful for the 15 minutes or so after a session in which he has a real live person with BDSM interest listening to him than he was for the session. Male bottoms don't often have confidants, don't often pipe up on message boards, and often are left to sort out their feelings flying totally solo and feeling guilty about every little thing for years.

It's not a pretty sight.

I agree. I spend a lot of time talking to the males because I know how important it is to them to have someone who will listen to them. Even if I cannot be their Domme, I try to be a resource to them. Someone they can talk to, and even help them determine where they fit into this lifestyle.

I try to help the young men realize that settling for someone who cannot or will not understand the whole man, will lead to problems in the future. I try to help them pinpoint their needs, and then give them the tools to find a mate who will be open to their kink. That is a tall order I know, but I talk to so many men who realize after years of marriage that they will never get what they really need, and they are being unfair to themselves and to their spouse who has no idea who she is really married to.

I am sure there are women who have the same problems, but it seems people are more sympathetic to women.

Eb

 

[Netzach]

I agree. I spend a lot of time talking to the males because I know how important it is to them to have someone who will listen to them. Even if I cannot be their Domme, I try to be a resource to them. Someone they can talk to, and even help them determine where they fit into this lifestyle.

I try to help the young men realize that settling for someone who cannot or will not understand the whole man, will lead to problems in the future. I try to help them pinpoint their needs, and then give them the tools to find a mate who will be open to their kink. That is a tall order I know, but I talk to so many men who realize after years of marriage that they will never get what they really need, and they are being unfair to themselves and to their spouse who has no idea who she is really married to.

I am sure there are women who have the same problems, but it seems people are more sympathetic to women.

Eb

mini hijack --

I don't get it. I do talk to so many guys younger than I am, who have vanilla gf's and fiancees and I try to convey what someone gently conveyed to me when I was 22 and trying to explore and maintain a vanilla rel. at the same time (it failed, and I'm glad though sad it did ultimately) what the guy said was "this is your only life, your one and only life."

That's it. I got it, heard it, tried to shy away from it, but it got to me.

I do tell them that this is not going to go away. It's going to come back, no matter what you do, it came back again and again for me.

I don't know if I've managed to head any unhappy marriages off at the pass, but I do wish they'd at least stick to their guns and make sure that potential gf's eyes light up a little if they say "I like to get tied up."

 

[Ebonyfire]

mini hijack --

I don't get it. I do talk to so many guys younger than I am, who have vanilla gf's and fiancees and I try to convey what someone gently conveyed to me when I was 22 and trying to explore and maintain a vanilla rel. at the same time (it failed, and I'm glad though sad it did ultimately) what the guy said was "this is your only life, your one and only life."

That's it. I got it, heard it, tried to shy away from it, but it got to me.

I do tell them that this is not going to go away. It's going to come back, no matter what you do, it came back again and again for me.

I don't know if I've managed to head any unhappy marriages off at the pass, but I do wish they'd at least stick to their guns and make sure that potential gf's eyes light up a little if they say "I like to get tied up."

I think that family has a lot to do with it. The pressure is equally strong with women too to marry "suitably".

That means religion, race, the basics. I do not think they worry about the fact they have been stealing their sisters (or brothers) underwear for years , like to dress up in women's clothing and really like pain.
Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

Perhaps Alice, but IME Dom/mes usually do not appreciate it being discussed publicly at all, and for many, with anyone other than them.

I prefer that if there is an issue slave discusses it with me. I have rules that define how he goes about raising issues. I do it because I am the only one who can resolve it.

To do otherwise can be seen as putting the Dom/me in a bad light, presenting
only one side of the issue, turning to others in place of your Dom/me, and being disrespectful and breaking trust. :

See I personally do not care about that. This is an anonymous board and he can vent when and where he pleases. I tell him he can think what he pleases provided his actions are obedient and his demeanor all that I require.

Eb

 

[HotKittySpank]

I think that family has a lot to do with it. The pressure is equally strong with women too to marry "suitably".

That means religion, race, the basics. I do not think they worry about the fact they have been stealing their sisters (or brothers) underwear for years , like to dress up in women's clothing and really like pain.
Eb

This is so true and sad. It takes years sometimes to un-do the brainwashing and find one's self. It is hard to understand and accept that you need something totally different from what you were told you needed.

That is how people end up in relationships that don't fill their needs. They haven't finished self-realizing yet. Hopefully they have understanding partners that are willing to let them grow. But I'm sure more often than not they don't.

 

[JMohegan]

This is a red flag in conventional relationships too. This can be the first step an abuser may take to to alienate their "victim" from others (i.e. friends, family,). What better way to start this by restricting the information that can be discussed with others.

Absolutely true, and scary as hell to think about in relation to partnerships in which obedience is expected and physical pain and mindfucks are already part of the status quo.

True, but there are ways and there are ways...you can ask in a totally rhetorical way, respectfully, disconnected in part and presented in a way which does not so much automatically place the other in a bad light in others' eyes but looks at seeking knowledge, answers, various P'sOV so they can make an informed decision

For a disconnected way to seek help, it's hard to beat the creation of an anonymous persona on a message board. (Unless, of course, the guy in question is a participating member here as well.)

or you can present a one sided picture, seem to come across as being wronged, looking for support against the Dom/me, looking for the 'you are right, s/he is bad' answer

Yup. I've seen that type of behavior, and have no patience for it.

I've seen subs present themselves as the very model of respectful submission to their own Dom and others, yet feel comfortable bitching to their girlfriends (often in great detail) about incidents that are essentially reflective of squabbles rather than critical issues in the relationship.

As soon as this behavior is discovered, these subs usually end up with few interested Dominants in their existing community, and have to start looking elsewhere.

 

[Kajira Callista]

The words of a Dom who knows how to punish. Nothing is more distressing to me than to be ignored. And ironically was exactly the way this scenario played out. I didn't get my ass beat and was lectured for trying to top from the bottom. After which he read the newspaper and went home, much to my chagrin.

...and I? Well waiting...still.

d

In your first post you say two months and very little D/s.
Right here...at least to me...shows just how much D/s there is. He told you to wait and he is making you wait.
Darlin' he is controlling you, you just aren't seeing it because it isn't the way you "planned" a Ds/ relationship.

 

[DVS]

Got enough info, yet? Everbody giving their 2 cents...you could be rich, soon. Adding my 2 cents, I don't have much more to say than many of those who have already spoken. And, from what I've read, they are all giving good advice.

The problem with good advice is it isn't any good, if it isn't taken. And, another problem with good advice is, you've recieved good advice for waiting, and good advice for moving on. So, where are you, now?

As for me, I'm a go getter. If I find someone I like, I don't hesitate. It's a waste of time. Sex is a strong attraction for me, and the submissive female body and mind are like magnets.

Why waste time with developing submissive tension? If total submission to his ways is what he's looking for, that's one thing, I guess. If this truely is his way to Dom, ...boring! Obviously, I have no way of knowing but, It's almost like he's timid about something or not wanting to go as far as you want and he can't find a way to tell you...or he doesn't want to, for some reason. Understand, this is all speculation, on my part.

Surely you traded limits when you met. Did he not understand yours, or did you miss something somewhere in your initial conversations? If he's somehow testing your submission, I'd say it's tested.

Why doesn't he understand your passion and desire to move to the next level? Why does he seem to be hesitant to dominate you in ways you desire? From your initial post, it's tested to redundency.

 

[catalina_francisco]

In your first post you say two months and very little D/s.
Right here...at least to me...shows just how much D/s there is. He told you to wait and he is making you wait.
Darlin' he is controlling you, you just aren't seeing it because it isn't the way you "planned" a Ds/ relationship.

Or maybe it's a matter of confusing SM with D/s...the two can go together, but they are not the same. Perhaps it is a matter of his wanting to see D/s from the submissive's side, before he offers the reward of SM so clearly being begged for. As we all know, giving rewards for bad or inappropriate behaviour is counter productive and confusing in the long term.

Catalina

 

[Blushing Bottom]

It would make more sense to me if some of this were true but I believe that it is not...well all but the playing with someone else. I do believe that he has a vanilla gal but will not discuss her more than to say she is a friend.

There has been no witholding of intimacy and his preformance is no less than phenomenal but damn the man is playing hard to get or something like it. He calls and teases me to the point of near full arousal and than tells me he'll see me in a couple of days.

But...on a brighter side since posting and reading the responses I have come to realize that there has been much more D/s in our relationship than I realized. Patience has never been one of my greatest skills but I'm working on it.

d

i think that's part of the problem ... she/he isn't ... Why do you call it hard to get?Possible, but we haven't heard anything indicating that as of yet.No clue if he needs little blue pills, wants to establish a certain level of control, decided to withhold intimacy as part of the relationship up front. We don't know because we haven't heard the other side of the story.Going to She-Hulk out on us dear?