When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[MrMikelobe1952]

Sorry you proved a point I wasn't trying to make

Hmm so now you're gaslighting me? Unbelievable

I'm confused, now. My observation was made in jest.

And what did I do to make you think I was ignoring you?

 

[Diosax]

There is a difference between "liking" women and "liking" women.

Facts

Not going to refer to any of the posters on here in particular (as there is no reason for anyone to post a defensive response),
but there are certainly men who are attracted to women sexually, but who do not seem capable of viewing or treating women as human beings.

Yes 100% been seeing videos about the subject. Especially how (some) men sexualize women but romanticize men. Its very interesting and I wanna read on it but haven't had the bandwidth to look into it.

I don't disagree.
I just wish there was something I could do.
Its not good for anyone.

If you have children, especially boys, raise them to be feminist men. If you have girls raise them to be their own person not to think that their existence is to please men.

Women are as much culpable in sustaining the patriarchy as men are in creating it. Think about it. Women are raising men to be this way too. To no fault of our own of course but at some point we have to question things. Otherwise we are jist recreating the same shit in a different decade.

 

[Diosax]

I'm confused, now. My observation was made in jest.

And what did I do to make you think I was ignoring you?

Gaslighting is not ignoring.

I was joking too. Geez men can't take a joke.

See what I did there.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Gaslighting is not ignoring.

I was joking too. Geez men can't take a joke.

See what I did there.

Nah.
Like I said. The Women are Smarter.
So, sometimes your jokes just go right over our heads.

 

[Diosax]

Nah.
Like I said. Women are Smarter.
So, sometimes your jokes just go right over our heads.

Good answer.

I'm still not having sex with you though

 

[KatieDoes]

That is actually really sad. I don't know how they came to be that way, but how can they ever have a good relationship in their life thinking that way.

Think about what boys are taught about girls. Think about how to be accused of doing anything ‘like a girl’ is the worst insult a young boy can hear. They grow up thinking that to be like a girl is to be less than, and useless. Many men don’t like women as people. They view us as objects and possessions. Having the best one makes them look like a better man, so they try to choose good ones. But they don’t actually like us.

(#NotAll is implicit in that, of course)

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Good answer.

I'm still not having sex with you though

 

[Wishingbox]

when a man fails to show a woman, that she can overplay her cards also, and then there will be consequences to pay, he makes himself vulnerable to manipulation.

I agree a lot with this but I disagree on the method for “how to show” sure actions of withholding might work however I believe communication through words is also required. In that communication both parties need to be self aware and able to have heathy dialogue otherwise talking and actions will be misunderstood, cause confusion and risk additional harm making things worse not better.

So after she calls you out for being withholding “you have to put out” isn’t really healthy because deep down that’s not even what you want. I doubt you want pity guilt sex. You really want her to genuinely show up more even if not perfect.

So withholding might get her attention but that’s only a small part of what’s needed for a solution (if one is possible).

are you sure she needs to ”take responsibility to her own sexual wellbeing”? Maybe she actually would be happy with whatever you are doing today? Isn’t all of this in fact you trying to get her to take care of your sexual wellbeing?

She is happy with what I’m doing when we do it. At least that’s what she says. The issue is her willingness to be open to allowing them to happen. That’s where she can grow and discover her sexuality and more easily prioritize being open because she sees the value and understands the need.

The best way I can think of it is we are sexual vessels. sexual energy enters and gets stored up then spent on sexual activity. Some of have wide openings and let in lots of sexual energy others have very narrow entrances. Some store their energy and it fills up quickly often overflowing while others have lots of leakage and small access to add more. So one fills up and looks to enjoy sex while the other may be difficult to fill and excitement fades unless used right away.

Being aware of these unique aspects may help both parties better understand how to operate best with each other.

I genuinely think he is perfectly happy…. The only thing is that I am not, and therein lies the problem…..

Yes he probably is. He doesn’t have a messy container constantly overflowing which pours out all over the place and is spilling while trying to pour into a tiny hole in the other. Though I imagine he probably feels some shame and regret about not being able to meet your needs. He probably wishing he could be more but doesn’t know where to begin because if he is anything like my wife is self defeated in their attitudes of what’s possible.

But since I’m not perfectly happy, the relationship isn’t perfectly happy. But I don’t think he needs to read up and explore sex for his own sake. It’s a way to make ME happy. But perhaps your wife do has sexual issues…..?

And this is what I want. Her to explore sex for her own sake and there are ways but a big part comes form changing your mindset

 

[Elite_Goblin]

Yes, it is going to take a lot of patience, but the fact that you are trying should give some hope.

Listen to your therapist, but it is probably worthwhile to talk about how you felt you were putting yourself out there and exposing yourself (I meant metaphorically, but, anyway) and that you felt rejected. However, it will also probably be helpful to approach this from a direction of sympathy and understanding for her perspective. It is apparent that she is not comfortable with you masturbating. I don't know enough to guess why. Is it because she is just uncomfortable with the whole idea of masturbation? There are still a lot of people raised with very negative views of masturbaton. Does it feel to her like a reminder of something that is wrong in your relationship or a sign of your dissatisfaction with her?
So, I ain't a therapist, but I know enough to suggest that you appoach this by talking about how you felt, and not how she sabotaged you.

Apointment on September 6th! So, at least some professional advice will come then. What will be tough (for me) will be the language barrier. I will have to clumsily attempt to communicate in German all of these sexual terms and issues that I am going through. My wife may (or may not) help translate properly. I will not dwell on any of that, only the date.

@MrMikelobe1952, I am sure my wife is uncomfortable with the idea of masturbating. How do I know? If she is uncomfortable with something (so small) as me putting my hand around her and touching her shoulder in public, then it is of no surprise that she is uncomfy with wanking.

My approach to the therapist is not how I was sabotaged. (As I do not think that this is the case, and if so, I think it is unintentional.) I plan on answering the questions that they ask. All of my issues stem from lack of desire from my partner. Be it frequency, eroticism, showing affection...etc. These are but the symptoms of something else that is underlying that we may or may not figure out.

Moochienanu mentioned about possibly not orgasming. I do not think this is the case. But it could be other things that she brought up.

Without trying to get into the complexity of the issue (or non-complexity), I'll let the pros inform us.

After about a week after the last refusal episode, I have still lost interest in intimacy/sex with my spouse. Prior, I have either been told or been rejected for showing affection in public, asking for affection (like hugs), talking about or showing wanking, anticipating foreplay, and that I only want one thing (sex). Wifey is reaching out these evenings with some light affection, which is nice. I reciprocate in kind, but do not advance further. So, light hand-holding at bedtime. Too many times, I start getting excited and want to go further. I then end up figuring out how to get rid of a stiffy at bedtime with a spouse that has turned cold quickly. No thank you anymore.

School vacation is here, so I am in full-time child care mode. I will not have the time to frequent LIT as before, until after school has restarted. Hopefully, I have time to peek in at wha tis going on from time to time.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Apointment on September 6th! So, at least some professional advice will come then. What will be tough (for me) will be the language barrier. I will have to clumsily attempt to communicate in German all of these sexual terms and issues that I am going through. My wife may (or may not) help translate properly. I will not dwell on any of that, only the date.

@MrMikelobe1952, I am sure my wife is uncomfortable with the idea of masturbating. How do I know? If she is uncomfortable with something (so small) as me putting my hand around her and touching her shoulder in public, then it is of no surprise that she is uncomfy with wanking.

My approach to the therapist is not how I was sabotaged. (As I do not think that this is the case, and if so, I think it is unintentional.) I plan on answering the questions that they ask. All of my issues stem from lack of desire from my partner. Be it frequency, eroticism, showing affection...etc. These are but the symptoms of something else that is underlying that we may or may not figure out.

Moochienanu mentioned about possibly not orgasming. I do not think this is the case. But it could be other things that she brought up.

Without trying to get into the complexity of the issue (or non-complexity), I'll let the pros inform us.

After about a week after the last refusal episode, I have still lost interest in intimacy/sex with my spouse. Prior, I have either been told or been rejected for showing affection in public, asking for affection (like hugs), talking about or showing wanking, anticipating foreplay, and that I only want one thing (sex). Wifey is reaching out these evenings with some light affection, which is nice. I reciprocate in kind, but do not advance further. So, light hand-holding at bedtime. Too many times, I start getting excited and want to go further. I then end up figuring out how to get rid of a stiffy at bedtime with a spouse that has turned cold quickly. No thank you anymore.

School vacation is here, so I am in full-time child care mode. I will not have the time to frequent LIT as before, until after school has restarted. Hopefully, I have time to peek in at wha tis going on from time to time.

The language barrier is another challenge that I had not considered. You seem to be able to explain yourself quite well in English.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

This thread has been very enlightening for me to read. I am single, so I don’t share the issues that many of you are experiencing, but I can empathize.
If I may return to some of the earlier and recurring comments on this thread, regarding masturbation, camming, chatting, porn, etc. Honestly, I’m surprised that so many people in this thread think that this would count as cheating, or that so many people have spouses who would be uncomfortable with it! I have always considered masturbation to be healthy and normal, and it never bothered me when any of my past partners did that (whether I was there with them or not). I also think that I would much rather my partner masturbated to porn or chatted with a stranger who lives far away than, for example, masturbated to pictures that they still had of an ex or had a physical affair with someone they knew at work or in the neighborhood. I’m not in any way mocking the different boundaries that people have! I am just surprised to hear this.
(To be upfront, though, my thoughts should be taken with a grain of salt. As someone who is currently and happily single, I don’t feel the sense of obligation to anyone that many of you feel to your wives, so I don’t have the feelings of guilt attached to this concept that others might. I actually think that discreet affairs are incredibly sexy, and I’ve always enjoyed the thought of being a man’s outlet for sexual frustration on the side. So, perhaps my opinion on this situation can’t be trusted.)

Note that its just not just the men who feel they have to hide their on line play. Some women, too.
Part of this difference is just generational. I think many people of your generation grew up with different ideas of monogamy.
I think that, very commonly, the point at which some activity is regarded as cheating is when another actual person is involved. This can be providing mutual on line stimulation of various types. I will say that this is not entirely irrational. I think many of us find that on-line relationships can take a fair amount of emotional energy, which may be taken away from the marriage or other real life, primary relationship.

{I'm sure you will hear from gentleman who would like to pursue your fantasy.)

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Your comment about concepts of monogamy varying by generation is probably quite accurate. I think that it also has to do with what our actual concerns with infidelity are. The primary reason I seek out monogamy in my relationships is because of physical concerns; I don’t want my partner having sex with someone else, or impregnating someone else, or contracting/spreading an STI. I’m not a particularly jealous person, so the aspects of infidelity (for lack of a better word) that don’t involve physicality or don’t carry the same risks as what I’ve mentioned so far aren’t really a factor for me.

That makes completely logical sense. Many people seek monogamy for reasons other than physical safety.
Your feelings may change when and if you reach a stage in your life when you decide to have children. I think it is common for people, (perhaps especially women, if that is not too sexist to say), if they are trying to raise a family, to seek a greater level of mutual commitment. This may or may not happen to you.

BTW, your bio says you have posted pics. Where do you think I would find them?
(I don't think anyone would accuse me of cheating for wanting to see more of your body.)

 

[Wishingbox]

I don't think anyone would accuse me of cheating for wanting to see more of your body

That’s it you’re cheating!

 

[Wishingbox]

I don’t share the issues that many of you are experiencing, but I can empathize.

Not yet… but as some voiced on here over time and years things change in al of us. Some of our drives evolve over time it may be your future spouse as life and context around sex change.

I don’t speak for everyone but I’m appreciate your empathy.

I’m less of the opinion that differing or shifting drives is the issue but more so what we do with those differing drives, and treat our partners that is the important part. Like any aspect of a relationship we all value and desire different things in different quantities and frequencies but jealousy and emotions are very volatile especially around sex, attachment and partnering vs say sports or other hobbies.

I’m surprised that so many people in this thread think that this would count as cheating, or that so many people have spouses who would be uncomfortable with it!

I’m re reading Esther Perel’s book “the state of affairs” and its so insightful. She discusses a lot of the complexities around what people consider cheating or affairs. It’s such a wide range and each person’s perspectives are different.

I’m of the opinion that our individual jealousy stems from our own insecurities and the reality of those insecurities. Are you not good enough to satisfy the other? Are they going to leave me all together? Am I not attractive? Am I too overbearing or needy? Or realities like this person left their last two marriages will they leave ours if they’re not satisfied?

There are also religious, cultural and gender expectations.

Some aren’t turned on by porn so it’s really easy for them to feel like someone wanting or needing it is gross or the result of something missing/lacking.

If I found out my wife was looking at porn and masturbating I’ll admit it would stir up jealous because I’m struggling to get her to want sex more (specifically with me). So it would stir up lots of emotions if she only wanted sex like once a month but had all this side pleasure. It would initially stir up feelings of jealousy, frustration and hurt.

I would better understand it if she used it to stir up desire to be more sexual as a partner but still it would be initially difficult to process without feeling hurt.

I also want to do some investigation and learning into jealousy Vs envy because I think there is a lot there to discover.

I don’t feel the sense of obligation to anyone that many of you feel to your wives, so I don’t have the feelings of guilt attached to this concept that others might.

Totally I think a large part of it stems from wanting intimacy and connection with those we’re married to and want to experience sexual with so porn is used as a coping mechanism and often reminds us of the lack of sexual intimacy instead of being a supplement or addative to something very satisfying.

Like people offering you an vegan alternative to some tasty desert you want. Nothing wrong with eating some tofu but trying to eat faux tofu-brownies as an alternative instead only reminds you how much you miss real brownies. I’m fine eating a faux replacement food but don’t try to pass it off as the real thing.

I actually think that discreet affairs are incredibly sexy, and I’ve always enjoyed the thought of being a man’s outlet for sexual frustration on the side.

I’m sure you’ll fine plenty of options to assist with this fantasy here

I like Esther’s perspective in her books on the power of the third. You should read her books. It probably could give you some good insights in case you ever decide to make that fantasy real. Maybe you can help someone by resetting their self image, feeling desired and wanted and even making the wife jealous.

As much as i don’t want an affair I do wonder if my wife were to realize I was wanted and desires or that someone else was attempting anything with me if that would spark in her some primal desire. I’ve been contemplating introducing some flirty in front of her to see how she reacts.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Haha, I have pictures scattered around a few of the threads. Some are in the "Homemade Masturbation Videos" thread here and here, once in the "Big Natural Amateur Tits" thread here. Lately, most of my personal posts have been videos over in the "Let's talk fuckmachines" thread in the Fetish & Sexuality forum. Spoiler alert: I started that thread because I was considering buying a sex machine, then I did buy a sex machine, and now the videos in the thread are almost all just... you know, me getting railed by an inanimate object.
It's only as I type this all out that I realize how absolutely ridiculous this post is. But if I happen to be your cup of tea, then hey, enjoy.

Not ridiculous at all. Thank you for shating those links. I've only checked out your posts on the Big Amateur thread, and, well, yes, you are my cup of tea. And, while on that topic, you seem to have mastered the proper English method of sipping tea. I note that your pinking finger is extended while you are ... relaxing yourself, just like a proper English lady relaxing over a cupa.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

...I do wonder if my wife were to realize I was wanted and desires or that someone else was attempting anything with me if that would spark in her some primal desire. I’ve been contemplating introducing some flirty in front of her to see how she reacts.

When my wife found out (from me) that another woman was luring me with texts, pics, and phone calls, it eventually sparked true primal desire in her. This was like 10 years ago. We were doing all kinds of stuff and she was loving it! The other woman left the scene. The primal desires started going away. Wife got pregnant. Desires left for good.

 

[PacerLJ35]

I think most marriages go through this, at least sometimes. Early on in my marriage we had sex all the time, and while she was pregnant and trying to get pregnant I wondered if I could keep up. But after our daughter was born the sex slowed to about once a week.

There’s a lot of factors that go into why a woman’s libido slows…some of it is biological. I think it’s natural after kids for it to slow some. In my wife’s case, her job is pretty stressful and she doesn’t weigh what she did when she was 30…she’s very attractive and sexy, but women are often far more judgmental about themselves.

So these days we have sex 2-3 times a month…me being gone (I travel for work) doesn’t help because sometimes it’s just timing. But we make up for it by having awesome sex and discuss fantasies. The sex we have is so good that even if my wife and I didn’t get along in our normal lives (we do get along very well), I still wouldn’t want anyone else because I love our sex life, even if I could engage in it a little more.

For me, perfect would be 1-2 times a week. But speaking to other guys it seems for many women, monthly sex is enough to satisfy them, particularly if they’ve had kids or are older. That’s just biology I guess.

 

[WereGeek75]

Reading through this group I can see many of us can relate to the same issues. For us it snuck up slow. We had our second kid which slows sex down anyways. Then the IBS kicked in followed by her going through periods of depression (linked to the IBS) and suddenly we were counting weeks then months it really was a slow descent before we came up for air and noticed it.

We try where we can, but yeah it cam be difficult to go from a thriving sex life to barren desert.

One of the reasons I was lured here is partially due to the lack of sex and looking to chat and make connections. The idea of cheating is obviously there, I have strayed once on a one night stand, other offers I have declined as it doesn't seem to gel or fit for me (he says joining a site like this looking to meet others!)

Beyond chat it is simply porn for me until the tides change and the wife gives me that little smile, that little bottom grope that tells me the flood gates are going to open again.

 

[AspiringAuthor]

Nobody can convince me that a woman who claims to love her husband – is unable to return closeness to him and tenderness. Regardless of whatever may ail her. And it is also plainly obvious, without any need for a discussion, that 99% of such women can just as well give their man a handjob or a blowjob, without fainting or dieing in the process. And if she really feels strongly about him, she will even enjoy that; for the pleasure she gives to and invokes in her husband that way. Because all that is an integral part of loving one’s spouse.

Interesting thought... if I may add here?

For years, even when the idea of sex didn't interest me—I have multiple chronic pain issues myself—I never withheld this type of "affection" from my husband, and I never asked for him to reciprocate. But as time went on, he became accustomed to how our sex life had become—all one-sided—and that's the way it has stayed. Now, he suffers from a progressive, neurological disorder and is verbally abusive to me. He would still like to be intimate, but now I only see it as energy I don't wish to expend on him. For years, even before he became this ill, intimacy was always one-way. If I am feeling horny and would like his attention, I usually get a groan, or he'll kiss me once and let me continue on my own. There is really nothing more degrading for a woman to have her partner be more interested in playing on his phone while she struggles with self-pleasure. My drive remains high... but I take care of my own orgasms like I have for most of our 25 years of marriage. I can probably count on two hands the occurrences in that span of time where I didn't have to do it myself.

I know I'm late back to the party on this thread. I'm just now catching up. MS really sucks, for both parties.

 

[adamISOeve]

I send to you my regrets and my empathy, dear Aspiring Author. My comment was meant well, but apparently my understanding of the total spectrum of what is possible had been rather limited. My apologies to you, and all the best for you in the future.

 

[curvyjae]

Adding my two cents. If you enter into the marriage knowing that your sex drives/desire for sex is different then it’s a conscious choice but when you get married and the other person acts like they like sex a lot and affection then suddenly stops it’s quite damaging.

I’m not in a position to get divorced for various reasons. And I do care about him but I don’t believe he loves me like I want loved. And if he asked for a divorce I’m not sure I’d be sad. Disappointed in another failed marriage but not sad. All of this because sex went from most days of the week sometimes even 2-3 times a night to once every 4-8 weeks. All affection is habitual. So to fill the void I am on here like most of the rest of us.

In the end it’s either stay and find a way to cope or leave

 

[Mtnmike]

Adding my two cents. If you enter into the marriage knowing that your sex drives/desire for sex is different then it’s a conscious choice but when you get married and the other person acts like they like sex a lot and affection then suddenly stops it’s quite damaging.

I’m not in a position to get divorced for various reasons. And I do care about him but I don’t believe he loves me like I want loved. And if he asked for a divorce I’m not sure I’d be sad. Disappointed in another failed marriage but not sad. All of this because sex went from most days of the week sometimes even 2-3 times a night to once every 4-8 weeks. All affection is habitual. So to fill the void I am on here like most of the rest of us.

In the end it’s either stay and find a way to cope or leave

As a male counterpart, you described my marriage to a tee, so understand what you're saying. Sex anytime, anywhere until she had the kid's she wanted, then zilch, just never wanted again. Yea found out other things she had lied about while dating that would've made me change my mind about marrying her. It's not all her fault, I had been hurt in a previous marriage & wasn't keeping my eye's open for the signs, thinking with the wrong head for sure. Like you divorce isn't an option so I stay & deal as best I can, coming here does help some but not like being able to touch someone.

 

[curvyjae]

As a male counterpart, you described my marriage to a tee, so understand what you're saying. Sex anytime, anywhere until she had the kid's she wanted, then zilch, just never wanted again. Yea found out other things she had lied about while dating that would've made me change my mind about marrying her. It's not all her fault, I had been hurt in a previous marriage & wasn't keeping my eye's open for the signs, thinking with the wrong head for sure. Like you divorce isn't an option so I stay & deal as best I can, coming here does help some but not like being able to touch someone.

Exactly it. There’s things if I’d know before I’d not gotten married. Too late now though!

 

[Mtnmike]

Exactly it. There’s things if I’d know before I’d not gotten married. Too late now though!

It is a shame that people in this situation don't have a place to meet & discuss thing's, nothing physical unless both agree to it. It helps getting it off your chest, talking about it does help, if you can trust that person.

 

[adamISOeve]

dear Jay and Mike, It seems you two have uncovered pretty well the essence of all root causes for the problems talked about on this thread. They range from plain deception to desires and sex drives which simply change over time. And maybe the biggest root cause nobody has mentioned yet: for 99% of the history of human life on earth, men and women had only about ten years available for having sex, maybe 15 at most; afterwards they were dead.

And the mechanism that Mother Nature designed, sex drive in various forms, worked pretty well for that short a time span. But now we have not ten years available but more than 60 on average, and evolution has simply not caught up with this mighty change yet.

So couples craving sexual bliss for longer – can’t count on evolution merely. And very rarely will BOTH parts of a couple tick the same way. Regarding their imagination for prolonging great sex.