When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[OrdinaryPerson]

I like your post, extra-ordinary “Ordinary”, because you put your finger on what truly counts and matters: How have “morals”, i.e. societal norms, contributed to ordinary people getting their well-being fucked up. When very much to be expected, and hence “normal” differences in sex drives between two partners come into play.

If all that moralizing did not exist, you could enjoy sex with a partner outside your mariage who matches your drive. And you would not need to bother your husband for stuff he is not truly enjoying. And you and your husband could enjoy together what you do enjoy.

I dont think its necessarily all outright moralizing... ive never gone to church and intellectually i can understand the appeal of two people together just for sex with no attachments or anything else expected but i just dont know if that can happen in real life for most people. I mean as social animals we are all affected by and a product of, societal norms to some degree. While id love for sex to be as compartmentalized as say knitting. It just isnt for most people. And thats not even considering hormones and whatever happens in your brain when you do have sex with someone.

 

[Bbl87]

I wanted a stronger partner, too. Also I realised I want kids, but not with him...

And now thinking back - I've realised I am submissive, and he's as far from dominant as one can be, he sometimes gave in without me realising he did that. So no wonder I wanted something else.

And I think that is something that can also be affected by the individual relationship and history of that relationship. Not saying that is the case in your relationship, but it is very much so in mine.

One of the things we discussed during our "fight" recently was that she said she wanted me to be more confident/dominant. I pointed out how that has been something that has really changed for me (see my previous post about job change). I'm MUCH more confident today than when we got married. But that hasn't translated over to our sex life. Why? The disfunction, as I would call it, runs a bit deeper and after you've been turned down repeatedly and/or start to feel undesired, it takes more than just a confidence boost to overcome that. I can be plenty dominant when we do bondage play, but as far as initiating and things like that, that's something I'm still not there with yet. It'll take time, if she's willing to work on it.

 

[Strixaluco]

And I think that is something that can also be affected by the individual relationship and history of that relationship. Not saying that is the case in your relationship, but it is very much so in mine.

One of the things we discussed during our "fight" recently was that she said she wanted me to be more confident/dominant. I pointed out how that has been something that has really changed for me (see my previous post about job change). I'm MUCH more confident today than when we got married. But that hasn't translated over to our sex life. Why? The disfunction, as I would call it, runs a bit deeper and after you've been turned down repeatedly and/or start to feel undesired, it takes more than just a confidence boost to overcome that. I can be plenty dominant when we do bondage play, but as far as initiating and things like that, that's something I'm still not there with yet. It'll take time, if she's willing to work on it.

Well my first ex was deeply not dominant in any aspect of a relationship. He still isn't (we are in friendly terms, and I have wondered how I could stay with him for 10 years... Actually my father had known from the start it wouldn't last.)

And then my body just didn't react to him. Wrong pheromones. You just can't change your genes - but p-pills can fuck the natural choosing for women.

 

[Bbl87]

Well my first ex was deeply not dominant in any aspect of a relationship. He still isn't (we are in friendly terms, and I have wondered how I could stay with him for 10 years... Actually my father had known from the start it wouldn't last.)

And then my body just didn't react to him. Wrong pheromones. You just can't change your genes - but p-pills can fuck the natural choosing for women.

Very true. We have a very egalitarian relationship, and she does handle most of the finances by her choice, which can affect the dynamic for sure. In the past I would defer to her on most everything just for that reason, but the last few years have become much more of an equal in decision making and am not afraid to express my opinions when it comes to making decisions. She's definitely noticed that change, and doesn't always like it. Like I said, alot of that came from confidence I gained in my professional life.

But the body reaction is very much something I've asked her. I up front asked her if she is no longer sexually attracted to me, because yes hearing it would hurt but it would at least help with finding a path forward.

 

[Wishingbox]

I dont think its necessarily all outright moralizing... ive never gone to church and intellectually i can understand the appeal of two people together just for sex with no attachments or anything else expected but i just dont know if that can happen in real life for most people. I mean as social animals we are all affected by and a product of, societal norms to some degree. While id love for sex to be as compartmentalized as say knitting. It just isnt for most people. And thats not even considering hormones and whatever happens in your brain when you do have sex with someone.

I think so much of it is contextual a depends on the people, mindsets and experiences.

People can get a massage and even a very intense one and not necessary feel connected to the one massaging them. Or say hookers and laid sexual encounters are specificity intended to be non connecting.

Inversely people can bond really deeply over intense activities, athletics and sports, combat, birthing and even traumatic events. Knitting might not be the best example.

I’m not saying I completely subscribe to the idea (at least yet) that sex can be totally free of bonding. I think it by nature is very bonding and intimate.

Perhaps a mindset like friendships. You have your spouse then you have friends who come and go over the years. Some create deeper connections with and bond over events but you also know they can be very seasonal. So it hurts when they move or transition life stages and that’s ok. The pain is worth the relationship.

So maybe some types of open marriages and swinging have this it’s ok there is some bonding and some pain but that’s not necessarily a problem as long as it doesn’t supplant the primary relationship.

In my reading on poly Vs swinging it seems like swingers try to distance the emotional connection and guard against it where poly tends to accept it and allow it to come and go.

Again I’m not saying I’m totally subscribe to the idea of sex without connection but I see people bond so deeply over so many life passions with people who aren’t their spouse. I probably fall more into the yes it is somewhat bonding by nature but how much depends largely on the mindsets of those engaging in it.

P.s. We all probably could point to sexual encounters with our spouses which felt super cold and weren’t intimate and bonding at all.

Thinking out loud.

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

So maybe some types of open marriages and swinging have this it’s ok there is some bonding and some pain but that’s not necessarily a problem as long as it doesn’t supplant the primary relationship.

But how can people ensure that the primary relationship won't be supplanted or negatively affected? I go back to... if you don't want to get burned, don't play with fire? It might be great and all work out but maybe someone gets jealous or someone connects a little more than they agreed to... Im sure there are some people can do it since there are people happily practicing polyamory or in open marriages... Im just pointing out that I think for most people, we probably are not there.

Again I’m not saying I’m totally subscribe to the idea of sex without connection but I see people bond so deeply over so many life passions with people who aren’t their spouse. I probably fall more into the yes it is somewhat bonding by nature but how much depends largely on the mindsets of those engaging in it.

The bonding aspect I think is different and I dont think I would be comfortable with my husband being very close to someone he finds attractive. Would you want your wife to have a work husband or a tennis partner she is really emotional intimate with? A guy she is attracted to that she loves to knit with? But if its just doing the hobbies, thats different. Hobbies aren't seen as something you can or should only do with one person. You don't sign up for a lifetime commitment to only play sports with your spouse. And we are not programmed to feel jealous toward spouses playing sports with other people.

P.s. We all probably could point to sexual encounters with our spouses which felt super cold and weren’t intimate and bonding at all.

I don't know what you are talking about? Sex is always
.

 

[Wishingbox]

But how can people ensure that the primary relationship won't be supplanted or negatively affected? I go back to... if you don't want to get burned, don't play with fire?

We’ll no one can be sure of this with anything anyone does in their life. People fall for people all the time. But is that because they feel they’re hiding part of themselves or missing out so it grows into something more intense, privet or hidden instead of out in the open.

Vs the idea of bringing it to light. Being honest and transparent and able to talk about it. I don’t need to go to knitting club if that’s her thing. Maybe I want to swing by, meet the people, hear how things went but I have no desire to be the go to person for knitting needs. Doing it in the shadows has may more of a risk of growing out of control. If your partner is aware and in the know maybe they would be the one to point out hey this looks like it’s consuming you or growing out of control etc.
Im just pointing out that I think for most people, we probably are not there.

Yeah I think you’re probably right. Most of us fear it and I’m not sure how much is that stems from communication and insecurity issues.

The bonding aspect I think is different and I dont think I would be comfortable with my husband being very close to someone he finds attractive.

I also think it depends on what we’re lacking or trying to get from our partner and when someone poses a threat to something we’re insecure about. You would have no problem with your husband having a work wife if you knew she wasn’t attractive to him because the threat of sexual competition on an already strained pairing is threatening?

I don't know what you are talking about? Sex is always
.

Wait people are having sex!?!?!

————

Im not saying any of this would fix everything for everyone. Maybe it would be better for some and not others. and maybe it’s just wishful thinking of sexually stifled spouses…

 

[Wishingbox]

Or to put it more simply. Which is more dangerous operating in the open or in secret. Either way there is going to be some subset of people operating so which do you want to be?

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

Or to put it more simply. Which is more dangerous operating in the open or in secret. Either way there is going to be some subset of people operating so which do you want to be?

Operating what? Why isnt just not operating whatever it is that youre operating not an option?

 

[Strixaluco]

Very true. We have a very egalitarian relationship, and she does handle most of the finances by her choice, which can affect the dynamic for sure. In the past I would defer to her on most everything just for that reason, but the last few years have become much more of an equal in decision making and am not afraid to express my opinions when it comes to making decisions. She's definitely noticed that change, and doesn't always like it. Like I said, alot of that came from confidence I gained in my professional life.

Changes can be difficult per se. Also... While I like my partner to take charge, I wouldn't have let just anyone do it.

But the body reaction is very much something I've asked her. I up front asked her if she is no longer sexually attracted to me, because yes hearing it would hurt but it would at least help with finding a path forward.

I hope she knows. Because I didn't know what true attraction is before I met my 2nd ex. Until the very end with my first I didn't quite realise how different it could and in my opinion should be.

And I actually met my 2nd before leaving my first. I just didn't act upon it yet. Meeting him I was blown away with the attraction. Now, had I still believed in the relationship I still had I would have fought to save it and make it better, but at that point the hope had already gone.

 

[Wishingbox]

Operating what? Why isnt just not operating whatever it is that youre operating not an option?

Because sometimes something is so important to who we are that eventually we can’t keep it just in our heads or phones any more and we feel like living a lie or inauthentically isn’t worth it.

It doesn’t have to be just sexual expression it could be any deep value or way of life. Right now with kids or work or finances it doesn’t seem worth expressing it and we can keep it in the shadows.

I feel like that’s what has happened often here so many were hiding this and eventually decided it’s not worth it and leave.

So maybe another option to leaving and hiding could be for some (not all or most) to face it head on and embrace it.

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

Because sometimes something is so important to who we are that eventually we can’t keep it just in our heads or phones any more and we feel like living a lie or inauthentically isn’t worth it.

It doesn’t have to be just sexual expression it could be any deep value or way of life. Right now with kids or work or finances it doesn’t seem worth expressing it and we can keep it in the shadows.

Its not just kids and finances. Part of it is that you commited to growing old with that person because presumably you really like that person. Sex is important but is it so important that it would cause you to eventually break that commitment? Especially in a relationship where you are still having pretty good sex...

On my death bed id rather have my husband by side than having had a really good fulfilling sex life. Maybe its the optimism of relative youth speaking of speaking but i dont think i would just get so frustrated i would up and leave or cheat one day.

Ill acknowledge im not always right so i guess ask me in 20 years how its going.

 

[Wishingbox]

Its not just kids and finances. Part of it is that you commited to growing old with that person because presumably you really like that person. Sex is important but is it so important that it would cause you to eventually break that commitment? Especially in a relationship where you are still having pretty good sex...

On my death bed id rather have my husband by side than having had a really good fulfilling sex life. Maybe its the optimism of relative youth speaking of speaking but i dont think i would just get so frustrated i would up and leave or cheat one day.

Ill acknowledge im not always right so i guess ask me in 20 years how its going.

All great points which resonate with me too. I’m ok sacrificing and it seems very much worth it. But sometimes that seems to have eaten away at some people enough for them to leave (not just sex its often other things).

I’m personally no where near considering leaving and things have gotten much better after doing lots of work to improve communication.

But there will always be for me some part of myself I’m sacrificing and hiding and it ebbs and flows in intensity or life situations.

Perhaps it will put grow the privacy of my mind or my pragmatism that may not be any more sure of staying together than exploring something else.

 

[Strixaluco]

I can only say that after leaving and looking back, sacrificing sexuality to keep that promise to stay did not look worth it. (No kids, though, so it's more simple.)

 

[adamISOeve]

Dear OP and dear WB, I’ve been following your exchange of thoughts and what you write moves me. According to my impression, you two think rather differently now, with you, OP allowing for the possibility of a mind change 20 years hence.

Maybe sharing my experience might help, but I am not sure. My wife is the one in our marriage, who feels asexual now. Menopause-related. Only, I like to believe. And my way out of this dilemma has been “re-activating” a prior mail lover. And she seems to feel glad about this reactivation also.

Now of course it is affecting my marriage and hers. But I claim positively so. Mail intimacy and affection differs from IRL, after all. I claim I act more tolerant, and maybe even with more affection towards my wife, when I know there exists someone else who values me a lot, including the sexual and passion part.

OK, perhaps no help for either one of you. But good-luck wishes to both of you.

 

[Wishingbox]

I can only say that after leaving and looking back, sacrificing sexuality to keep that promise to stay did not look worth it. (No kids, though, so it's more simple.)

And everyone’s situation, partners and drives are so different it’s difficult to compare or prescribe. Simple here is my/you/their experience and maybe there is something we can learn from them and try or explore.

 

[Wishingbox]

OK, perhaps no help for either one of you. But good-luck wishes to both of you.

I think it helps and is a valid experience to add.

Maybe sharing my experience might help, but I am not sure. My wife is the one in our marriage, who feels asexual now. Menopause-related. Only, I like to believe. And my way out of this dilemma has been “re-activating” a prior mail lover. And she seems to feel glad about this reactivation also.

So your wife knows and is ok with it? Could you share why you think your wife seems glad?

What is she experiencing emotionally around it?

How did you go about discussing it and getting her consent/approval?

Now of course it is affecting my marriage and hers. But I claim positively so. Mail intimacy and affection differs from IRL, after all. I claim I act more tolerant, and maybe even with more affection towards my wife, when I know there exists someone else who values me a lot, including the sexual and passion part.

This is a good point.

I think the more many of become aware of how important or integral sexual experience is to each of our lives we may also become more aware of how overly suppressing and hiding it might be harming how we show up as a healthy partner and human being.

Perhaps having a healthier outlet for me would make me less clingy and reduce the pressure/expectation which is crushing her? (Or perhaps this is just my wishful thinking justifying my erotic desires)

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

Dear OP and dear WB, I’ve been following your exchange of thoughts and what you write moves me. According to my impression, you two think rather differently now, with you, OP allowing for the possibility of a mind change 20 years hence.

Maybe sharing my experience might help, but I am not sure. My wife is the one in our marriage, who feels asexual now. Menopause-related. Only, I like to believe. And my way out of this dilemma has been “re-activating” a prior mail lover. And she seems to feel glad about this reactivation also.

Now of course it is affecting my marriage and hers. But I claim positively so. Mail intimacy and affection differs from IRL, after all. I claim I act more tolerant, and maybe even with more affection towards my wife, when I know there exists someone else who values me a lot, including the sexual and passion part.

OK, perhaps no help for either one of you. But good-luck wishes to both of you.

I dont think we think all that differently at the end of the day.

A mail lover? Like you guys send letters through usps to each other? How quaint.

 

[Bbl87]

Its not just kids and finances. Part of it is that you commited to growing old with that person because presumably you really like that person. Sex is important but is it so important that it would cause you to eventually break that commitment? Especially in a relationship where you are still having pretty good sex...

On my death bed id rather have my husband by side than having had a really good fulfilling sex life. Maybe its the optimism of relative youth speaking of speaking but i dont think i would just get so frustrated i would up and leave or cheat one day.

Ill acknowledge im not always right so i guess ask me in 20 years how its going.

To be fair, I think the sexual issues we are discussing are often symptoms of deeper issues, or can lead to them. It's rarely as simple as "I just need more sex." Just speaking from my own experience, lack of sexual intimacy has led to me feeling undesired, unwanted, and unloved. Now, that being said I KNOW she loves me, but it doesn’t FEEL like it. Right or wrong, my friendships and interactions on here have helped me rediscover that I am someone worthy of desire, not just a second income, roommate, and co-parent.

 

[adamISOeve]

I dont think we think all that differently at the end of the day.

A mail lover? Like you guys send letters through usps to each other? How quaint.

YOU got one thing wrong, OP: we send mails to each other because of our USPs, but we send them via email.

 

[Bbl87]

YOU got one thing wrong, OP: we send mails to each other because of our USPs, but we send them via email.

Believe they meant USPS as in United States Postal Service. Guessing it got lost on translation.

 

[Wishingbox]

To be fair, I think the sexual issues we are discussing are often symptoms of deeper issues, or can lead to them. It's rarely as simple as "I just need more sex." Just speaking from my own experience, lack of sexual intimacy has led to me feeling indesired, unwanted, and unloved. Now, that being said I KNOW she loves me, but it doesn’t FEEL like it. Right or wrong, my friendships and interactions on here have helped me rediscover that I am someone worthy of desire, not just a second income, roommate, and co-parent.

Yes this resonates with how I’ve felt and what Lit has meant to me. It also in some has helped me identify the lines between wanting to feel loved, wanting to enjoy and explore sexual and wanting to be loved through sex. I think they can overlap but also somewhat disc toy different.

I’m much more secure in my worthiness and accepted my kinkier side as a part of myself. just because it’s not received doesn’t mean I’m broken or not loved.

I’ve also become much more accepting of who my wife is. She isn’t broken, she has her own values and prioritizes other things more. I can invite her, think she’ll enjoy it but don’t want her to feel ashamed of who she is any more than I want to be shamed or resented.

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

Believe they meant USPS as in United States Postal Service. Guessing it got lost on translation.

Yea this. I was imaging george washington in a wig sealing a wax closure on a sexy love letter to martha before sending it out on the pony express.

Either that or you mailed a robot lady to yourself from storage that you pushed the start button on again...

 

[adamISOeve]

Yea this. I was imaging george washington in a wig sealing a wax closure on a sexy love letter to martha before sending it out on the pony express.

Either that or you mailed a robot lady to yourself from storage that you pushed the start button on again...

You know as well as I do, dear OP: in reality the gamut is far wider than you are making it out to be

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

You know as well as I do, dear OP: in reality the gamut is far wider than you are making it out to be

Huh. I actually dont know what you mean.