When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[Wishingbox]

Absolutely no way would my wife ask for any medication that would increase her sexual desire. She feels like her diminishing desire is natural and should be acceptable by me.

Yes, we have a kid. But I cannot leave him. He is too much for one person to handle, and I honestly think it would negatively affect him. (he is on the Autism spectrum). So, I have to wait until he is older before any life-changes can be seriously contemplated.

Wishingbox sounds exactly like me and the frustrations that my wife and I have. Nice to have someone to relate to.

I read a term term called Gray Divorce. The divorce of older people often when kids are grown.

As much as we all love sex here it’s not the most important thing sometimes. It takes a real honorable man to stick around and be responsible. Sacrifices are hard.

I think it also helps again that I love my wife and she is my best friend. So it’s not like there is abuse and no one gets a perfect marriage. Of all the struggles the sex balance is the biggest frustration and perhaps things will change over time here for both one of us. People do change their minds or opportunities arise to accommodate needs…

Props for sticking around and being there for your son.

 

[aero2nite]

Something to consider when comparing sex drives and individual desire. Desire is a
complex equation That has many moving parts..consider a Dr that will prescribe hormone replacement therapy that includes testosterone for the female. Many nurse practitioners and naturopathy docs will feel they know enough to help in this regard. My wife waEnt through menopause and desire went completely away. We have been together for 38 yrs and had stopped having any sex at all. I masturbated daily Still. Now on hormones she is a different lady, wanting sex weekly and even shopping for sex toys and masturbating Just something to consider.

Hormone therapy does work on many women, I agree. In my case my wife had medical issues and was forced into menopause and can never have the opportunity to use hormone therapy to revive her sex drive. To make matters worse that was a year and half after I married her. Now 11 years later I love a beautiful, hard working woman and a great friend but.... She has no interest in affection, holding hands, kissing or anything else. You can now imagine my daily thoughts and answer the question why am I here!

 

[Elite_Goblin]

I read a term term called Gray Divorce. The divorce of older people often when kids are grown.

As much as we all love sex here it’s not the most important thing sometimes. It takes a real honorable man to stick around and be responsible. Sacrifices are hard.

I think it also helps again that I love my wife and she is my best friend. So it’s not like there is abuse and no one gets a perfect marriage. Of all the struggles the sex balance is the biggest frustration and perhaps things will change over time here for both one of us. People do change their minds or opportunities arise to accommodate needs…

Props for sticking around and being there for your son.

If things are like this when my son is grown, we will most likely not be together anymore. I might be greedy, but I want a spouse that I can love and show affection and she desires that towards me as well.
Sex may not be the most important thing, but it plays a HUGE part.

 

[Tazejohnson]

IMO Jerking is not cheating



I chat, I masturbate, I do not screw around with women. I do jerkoff with other men in similar situations. I have not had sex w/ my loving wife in years. Getting my satisfaction by my own hand worked okay for years BUT I decided to add a social aspect. All guys masturbate. If they say they don't they're lying (maybe to themselves). Having a jerkoff buddy allows me to have some social and physical interaction and satisfaction without feeling extremely bad. I don't believe I am betraying my wife, I am saving myself from depression, despair and resentment. No harm, no foul.

I am in the same boat. I feel guilty at times for doing the chats etc. I’ve met up with a few guys too. Mutual oral.
But I love my wife but also long for sex!

 

[GregThickDix]

I check back in every now and again to see if anyone is adding to the thread. Talking about it is in itself a form of therapy. Hang in there and work on yourself to figure out what works for you is what seems to be the common thread.

 

[Wishingbox]

Dropped some hints Monday to express how much I wanted her.

Tuesday I thought maybe there were hints back but shit show kid meltdown so I chalked it up to stress.

Wednesday was the last free night before two busy evenings so I think she’s going to be open tonight.

Nope.

Now to have to wade through the you knew these “no go days” were coming was it really that awful you’d rather make me wait.

This is the hard cycle and the point I go F it I’m not pursuing anymore and I’m pissed. It’s not like I don’t make it amazing for her and ensure she orgasms first.

 

[LTMMC]

@WB, I wonder whether you are prepared for some comments I see as constructive. Your relating experiences which illustrate various defeats of yours don’t seem to get you anywhere.

IMHO, your wife seems one of those women on whom effort of yours is ptretty much lost, so the first thing you should try is a precisely opposite approach. Maybe when she notices you losing interest in her, she might get worried.

But I would not count on this either. And rather focus your efforts on other women. A sex professional, for instance. Laying out a small amount of money for access to a willing woman seems like a good investment to me. And with your wife ticking like you describe her, she would even deserve your letting her in on it. So it appears to me at least.

And then you might want to familiarize yourself with the thinking of a woman in the 1970s, who described in a book (The Manipulated Man) how she sees most of her female peers approach the subject of marriage. She began her career as an MD and did social research later, so she offers quite a bit of substance in her observations. Despite the satirical appearance of her book, language-wise.

You can buy the book, an edition from 1998, or peruse the following internet link: https://selfdefinition.org/psychology/Esther-Vilar-The-Manipulated-Man.pdf Now the author’s thinking may not help you any in your situation. Except for understanding where you may stand as a man; versus many women in far more powerful situations.

 

[Wishingbox]

I’m listening to “come as you are” the book. I have to say the first 2/3 is ok (IMHO) but it gets pretty good at the 2/3 point and really hits home.

I think the spontaneous Vs responsive types is really accurate and helpful. I feel like others on this thread should check it out.

 

[LTMMC]

@WB, Thank you for pointing out this book. Your link does not work for me, but I found lots of info about the book on Amazon.

Indeed, it seems the author is putting lots of info on the table, which I had never been aware of, so reading all of the book should be enlightening. Thank you again for mentioning Emily Nagoski and her book to all of us here.

 

[AspiringAuthor]

So…reading through the entire thread and realizing I may be the only wife here in the same frustrating situation.

You're not... trust me. Married 25 years, and almost all of them have been sexless if I'm truly honest with myself. Luckily (?) he was not my first, so I can say I've had sex at least once in my life. Now, he's ill with a progressive, neurological illness and I'm his caregiver. It's difficult to switch off that caregiver role to one of wife and lover, especially since the latter two have never really fit me with him to begin with.

It's complicated. That's all I gotta say.

 

[SassySheDevil]

Hormone therapy does work on many women, I agree. In my case my wife had medical issues and was forced into menopause and can never have the opportunity to use hormone therapy to revive her sex drive. To make matters worse that was a year and half after I married her. Now 11 years later I love a beautiful, hard working woman and a great friend but.... She has no interest in affection, holding hands, kissing or anything else. You can now imagine my daily thoughts and answer the question why am I here!

This will be me. Because of the type of cancer I was diagnosed with. I can me never take hormones.

But I've never known any couple in a long term relationship to be on the same path at the same time. Men and women hit their piques at different times unfortunately.

 

[Wishingbox]

Ugh it’s a fucking mess.

So I ended up getting a book which covers different sex types. The book is excellent and really helped reframe some some things around sex.

Rather than low and high sex drives it broke it down into responsive Vs spontaneous sex types. Spontaneous sex types are those who are more prone to finding concepts of sex and sexuality interesting and get the sex drive going. Responsive is more the type that requires more physical engagement to activate their sexual desires.

The book also contained a ton of really helpful framing around stigmas why we like what we like and great methods for self reflection on the emotional responses to why we feel what we feel.

So I read the book and I’m like awesome maybe this can help us find words and a framework for communication around sex and better understanding each other.

I buy it and say I’d like to read it and it opened up a can of worms. Everything is all fucked up and she’s all “you just want sex” and “I like sex the way it is” all while admitting she’s been withholding on being intimate throughout the day because she doesn’t resent to send mixed signals and get my hopes up.

Blah now we’re just arguing about stuff and all I wanted to do was try and help us understand ourselves and each other and she’s in meltdown mode.

It fucking sucks.

 

[Wishingbox]

I see a problem and area we need to improve on ourselves in both communication and expectations so I try to bring it up and help and it turns into a cluster fuck.

One of those evenings where she storms out and leaves the house to go shop and when she returns we try to function well around the kids then go to bed pretending nothing happened.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

Funny WishingBox. You and I are on the exact same page.

Most of the time, we are in a roomate scenario. I would say sibling scenario, but I probably hug my sister more than my wife right now.

Last week, wifey sent me a text message about "looking forward to spending time with you later". Followed by an emoji with heart-eyes.
The time spent with me was no different than any other day. She sat on the sofa and watched youtube videos or the news until bedtime. Came to bed together at normal time. I tested the waters by starting to touch her. She grabbed my hand at put it at her side between us. We just held hands for a few minutes then went to bed. I felt like a hospital patient and she was there for a visit.
She too thinks that it is OK for her to be the way she is. Although it is she that is going through this radical change. My change is that I have to deal with not being able to hug or kiss my wife much anymore without saying that I am messed up for wanting to do so. Or for waiting longer and longer for the possibility of an intimate touch from another human being other than myself.

The last time we had sex, she did not let me touch her boobs, and I tried to lead her hand to my cock (beforehand) but she withdrew her hand. That is the extent of the foreplay she likes. None. She pulled off her pants (left her shirt on) and pull me ontop. It wasn't too long into it, that she complained that she was starting to hurt "up top". I am average size, so I don't get it. I guess if you have sex twice a month, then you can't handle hubby's dick anymore. To make a long story short. I just stopped pumping in and out, and just stayed there for a while. I figured that I was at least going to get my closeness and hugs in one way or the other. I pulled out without cumming. She asked what I was going to do. I told her to not worry about it, then got cleaned up.

I try to be friendly during the day and ask what she is watching, but she takes this as me bugging her during her iphone time, so she makes a face or is short and unfriendly with me. When I try to kiss her, she turns her cheek to me many times. Hugs are quick and not unlike the hugs you give to a friend when saying goodbye.

Any attempts to talk things out results with her saying that all I care about is "more sex". Seems to be the easy way out of any arguement.

I am quite sad that I am healthy, fit, caring, and a pleasant person. I feel that the days of having my wife wearing lingerie for me are long gone. The spontaneous or creative sex has withered. She has made me feel that I cannot show affection while out and about in public anymore. This is brought inside the home afterwards too. What woman would not want to be desired by their husband? Mine prefers to be left alone Cannot say it is the housework that tires her, because I am the one that does that, along with shopping, cooking, cleaning kitchen...etc.

I have tried so many things that I am tired of it too. From ignoring her, or just giving her space, to being nice and friendly, tried the flirty thing too. Nothing works. Pity that if affection, intimacy, and sex were not a factor, then it would be great! The perfect roomate scenario with a nice looking woman to boot. (And on rare occasions, I see her undress quickly before bed as a bonus.)

I am sick of it and feel so trapped that it isn't funny. This sucks, but in a bad way.

 

[Mtnmike]

Funny WishingBox. You and I are on the exact same page.

Most of the time, we are in a roomate scenario. I would say sibling scenario, but I probably hug my sister more than my wife right now.

Last week, wifey sent me a text message about "looking forward to spending time with you later". Followed by an emoji with heart-eyes.
The time spent with me was no different than any other day. She sat on the sofa and watched youtube videos or the news until bedtime. Came to bed together at normal time. I tested the waters by starting to touch her. She grabbed my hand at put it at her side between us. We just held hands for a few minutes then went to bed. I felt like a hospital patient and she was there for a visit.
She too thinks that it is OK for her to be the way she is. Although it is she that is going through this radical change. My change is that I have to deal with not being able to hug or kiss my wife much anymore without saying that I am messed up for wanting to do so. Or for waiting longer and longer for the possibility of an intimate touch from another human being other than myself.

The last time we had sex, she did not let me touch her boobs, and I tried to lead her hand to my cock (beforehand) but she withdrew her hand. That is the extent of the foreplay she likes. None. She pulled off her pants (left her shirt on) and pull me ontop. It wasn't too long into it, that she complained that she was starting to hurt "up top". I am average size, so I don't get it. I guess if you have sex twice a month, then you can't handle hubby's dick anymore. To make a long story short. I just stopped pumping in and out, and just stayed there for a while. I figured that I was at least going to get my closeness and hugs in one way or the other. I pulled out without cumming. She asked what I was going to do. I told her to not worry about it, then got cleaned up.

I try to be friendly during the day and ask what she is watching, but she takes this as me bugging her during her iphone time, so she makes a face or is short and unfriendly with me. When I try to kiss her, she turns her cheek to me many times. Hugs are quick and not unlike the hugs you give to a friend when saying goodbye.

Any attempts to talk things out results with her saying that all I care about is "more sex". Seems to be the easy way out of any arguement.

I am quite sad that I am healthy, fit, caring, and a pleasant person. I feel that the days of having my wife wearing lingerie for me are long gone. The spontaneous or creative sex has withered. She has made me feel that I cannot show affection while out and about in public anymore. This is brought inside the home afterwards too. What woman would not want to be desired by their husband? Mine prefers to be left alone Cannot say it is the housework that tires her, because I am the one that does that, along with shopping, cooking, cleaning kitchen...etc.

I have tried so many things that I am tired of it too. From ignoring her, or just giving her space, to being nice and friendly, tried the flirty thing too. Nothing works. Pity that if affection, intimacy, and sex were not a factor, then it would be great! The perfect roomate scenario with a nice looking woman to boot. (And on rare occasions, I see her undress quickly before bed as a bonus.)

I am sick of it and feel so trapped that it isn't funny. This sucks, but in a bad way.

Wow, you've just described my marriage for the last 14 year's, sorry you're going through the same, it is awful.

 

[Wishingbox]

Funny WishingBox. You and I are on the exact same page.

Most of the time, we are in a roomate scenario. I would say sibling scenario, but I probably hug my sister more than my wife right now.

Last week, wifey sent me a text message about "looking forward to spending time with you later". Followed by an emoji with heart-eyes.
The time spent with me was no different than any other day. She sat on the sofa and watched youtube videos or the news until bedtime. Came to bed together at normal time. I tested the waters by starting to touch her. She grabbed my hand at put it at her side between us. We just held hands for a few minutes then went to bed. I felt like a hospital patient and she was there for a visit.
She too thinks that it is OK for her to be the way she is. Although it is she that is going through this radical change. My change is that I have to deal with not being able to hug or kiss my wife much anymore without saying that I am messed up for wanting to do so. Or for waiting longer and longer for the possibility of an intimate touch from another human being other than myself.

The last time we had sex, she did not let me touch her boobs, and I tried to lead her hand to my cock (beforehand) but she withdrew her hand. That is the extent of the foreplay she likes. None. She pulled off her pants (left her shirt on) and pull me ontop. It wasn't too long into it, that she complained that she was starting to hurt "up top". I am average size, so I don't get it. I guess if you have sex twice a month, then you can't handle hubby's dick anymore. To make a long story short. I just stopped pumping in and out, and just stayed there for a while. I figured that I was at least going to get my closeness and hugs in one way or the other. I pulled out without cumming. She asked what I was going to do. I told her to not worry about it, then got cleaned up.

I try to be friendly during the day and ask what she is watching, but she takes this as me bugging her during her iphone time, so she makes a face or is short and unfriendly with me. When I try to kiss her, she turns her cheek to me many times. Hugs are quick and not unlike the hugs you give to a friend when saying goodbye.

Any attempts to talk things out results with her saying that all I care about is "more sex". Seems to be the easy way out of any arguement.

I am quite sad that I am healthy, fit, caring, and a pleasant person. I feel that the days of having my wife wearing lingerie for me are long gone. The spontaneous or creative sex has withered. She has made me feel that I cannot show affection while out and about in public anymore. This is brought inside the home afterwards too. What woman would not want to be desired by their husband? Mine prefers to be left alone Cannot say it is the housework that tires her, because I am the one that does that, along with shopping, cooking, cleaning kitchen...etc.

I have tried so many things that I am tired of it too. From ignoring her, or just giving her space, to being nice and friendly, tried the flirty thing too. Nothing works. Pity that if affection, intimacy, and sex were not a factor, then it would be great! The perfect roomate scenario with a nice looking woman to boot. (And on rare occasions, I see her undress quickly before bed as a bonus.)

I am sick of it and feel so trapped that it isn't funny. This sucks, but in a bad way.

Ugh this breaks my heart. I feel so much of this!

In the book they talk about these two types Spontaneous and Reactive sex types. https://dame.com/spontaneous-versus-responsive-desire-blex/

S type basically gets activated sexual with a wide range of things form taking about sex, thinking about it, anticipating etc. where the R type doesn’t get activated as much until physically responding.

I was like oooh this is a good way to frame it and it’s not necessarily low or high sex drive. So I was discussing this with her.


My hope was to say listen it seems like you need these physical moments to begin warming up. So im asking why she’s so unresponsive and negativity reacting to my physical defection. It like the one thing you need to get there is the one thing you don’t want to let me give you.

She explained she’s afraid if she shows me physical affection I’ll get warmed up hoping for sex and if we don’t have it I get ornery. I’ve been trying hard not to be disappointed or frustrated and explore option to release that excitement but we don’t find out if it’s a go or no go until we’re in bed.

So I’m like you’re self sabotaging the things that you seem to need in order to want to have sex. Your actively withholding affection that doesn’t sound healthy. That’s why I want to read this book together to try and improve this areas.

Then she’s like the sex is fine and she enjoys it. I’m like it’s not a sex thing it’s a getting to sex thing and she doesn’t seem to get it.

So then the evening was shot and we both left the house for a bit because neither wanted to be near each other.

 

[Mtnmike]

Ugh this breaks my heart. I feel so much of this!

In the book they talk about these two types Spontaneous and Reactive sex types. https://dame.com/spontaneous-versus-responsive-desire-blex/

S type basically gets activated sexual with a wide range of things form taking about sex, thinking about it, anticipating etc. where the R type doesn’t get activated as much until physically responding.

I was like oooh this is a good way to frame it and it’s not necessarily low or high sex drive. So I was discussing this with her.


My hope was to say listen it seems like you need these physical moments to begin warming up. So im asking why she’s so unresponsive and negativity reacting to my physical defection. It like the one thing you need to get there is the one thing you don’t want to let me give you.

She explained she’s afraid if she shows me physical affection I’ll get warmed up hoping for sex and if we don’t have it I get ornery. I’ve been trying hard not to be disappointed or frustrated and explore option to release that excitement but we don’t find out if it’s a go or no go until we’re in bed.

So I’m like you’re self sabotaging the things that you seem to need in order to want to have sex. Your actively withholding affection that doesn’t sound healthy. That’s why I want to read this book together to try and improve this areas.

Then she’s like the sex is fine and she enjoys it. I’m like it’s not a sex thing it’s a getting to sex thing and she doesn’t seem to get it.

So then the evening was shot and we both left the house for a bit because neither wanted to be near each other.

I applaud you for trying & hope something will eventually click with her. For year's I did what you are doing & any & everything I tried just seemed to make it worse, not saying you should stop trying it just didn't work in my situation.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

yea...I slept in the guest room last night. Cuz I wanted to.

 

[Wishingbox]

yea...I slept in the guest room last night. Cuz I wanted to.

Me too. “Slept” in there. I wouldn’t say I slept well just stayed in there replaying the conversation trying to figure things out from other angles and stressing.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

I have absolutely no problems sleeping in there. I have accepted how things are, and I just have to roll with them for the time being. Sometimes it is not bad, really. I actually feel like I have a wife every one in a long while. But there is a long space in between full of feeling alienated, unloved, unwanted (except for fixing stuff around the house)..etc.
I can only vent here, which helps.
Maybe something changes in the years that I wait for my son to grow up? We will see.

 

[Zenheredonethat]

To all of the posters,
I appreciate your honest and raw responses and conversation. As a man who takes my vows and relationship with my wife seriously, I feel your struggle and emotional turmoil. Sex is not the only thing, but it is an important thing. Dr. Nan Wise has some good material on this subject as well. I only hope that there is a way for you to communicate your needs in a way that does not set up a defensive response. My wife also used to go immediately to the, "it is always about sex," route. No, it is not just about the sex. It is about being seen, recognized, feeling desired. It is about accepting that I am a sexual being and part of me is this desire for her. I know many of my fantasies will just remain fantasies (I would want to live them with her if they ever were to come to fruition).

I just wanted folks to know that have been where you are; sometimes I still find I am there so I have not solved this or my situation by a long shot. Blessings...

 

[Wishingbox]

Well on a positive note yesterday she voluntarily suggested I read a chapter from the book. The first chapter has some ok stuff in it and sets the stage but the really helpful stuff comes later so hopefully we can keep it up. I read it and then we talked some more.

The sexual “Breaks” and “Gas” peddle help frame something’s. It occurred to me recently that we’re both attempting to manage each other. She admitted intentionally withholding affection to not hit my gas peddle. And I said I try to manage our environment or situations to try and remove them from hitting her breaks. We both hate it when the other does it.

I suggested they’re both forms of us trying to manage the other persons sex drives to get the result we want and despite what we see as struggles in the other.

Im trying to get us both to come to terms the idea there shouldn’t be any shame around our desire types spontaneous vs responsive.

And neither of us can or should manage the other.

She said she would prefer sex once a month. I said I’d prefer sex twice a week. That’s a big difference.

Im trying to find a solution that is more nuanced. Im not asking for sex sex. To me it’s about release and a completion of my drive cycle. So I’m hoping we find a good compromise where we stop managing each other and maybe we incorporate masturbation more regularly or provide a time for that at the end of the day if sex is a no go but I’m feeling revved up.

It doesn’t have to be 30-40 minute intercourse where each of us organs each time.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

She said she would prefer sex once a month. I said I’d prefer sex twice a week. That’s a big difference.

Im trying to find a solution that is more nuanced. Im not asking for sex sex. To me it’s about release and a completion of my drive cycle. So I’m hoping we find a good compromise where we stop managing each other and maybe we incorporate masturbation more regularly or provide a time for that at the end of the day if sex is a no go but I’m feeling revved up.

It doesn’t have to be 30-40 minute intercourse where each of us organs each time.

That is so me and my wifey. Uncanny.

 

[Wishingbox]

That is so me and my wifey. Uncanny.

My goal right now is for us to really really understand ourselves. What we truly want, why we want it, what’s effecting us wanting it this or that way.

Then try and be brutally honest about those things with each other so we are projecting, making presumptions etc.

Then I’m trying to rework and explore emotional responses and attachments to those things in a non judgmental space.

There is nothing wrong with me wanting sex, thinking about it, anticipating and there isn’t anything wrong with her not wanting it. It’s not fair or right for either of us to fix or turn the other person into someone they’re not.

Then once we have a really solid mature and respectful view of ourselves and each other we can start asking question like:

- What do we want help with?
- How do we we ask for it?
- Can we help the other person?
- If not then how do we let the other person self own?

I’m hoping that if we do the hard work of understanding ourselves and each other we can find a good solution that feels respectful and doesn’t hurt each others feelings.

I need to own my emotional response and expectation to not define my worth or attractiveness by her level of arousal or desire. I have to learn to be ok and solve that on my own. I also need to not think less of her for not expressing or having those physical desires. No shame in her being that way.

Then inversely she shouldn’t try and force me to wait entirely on her being at a certain level. She needs to not take my owning getting my needs met without her as a failure or being broken in any way. Jealousy and self deprecation are her own emotional responses to her not living up to her own expectations of herself and me.

 

[Wishingbox]

One confession that came up over all this was she had a fear that I wanted to sleep with someone else.

I asked her if she wanted to talk about why she felt that way and she said not right now. I told her that I appreciated her honesty and don’t judge her for feeling that. And when she’s ready to let me know so we can talk about it.

It occurred to me last night that deep down I do really want to sleep with someone else. But the thing is that person is a version of her that doesn’t exist and won’t ever exist. It’s not another person I know or that exists.

And at this very moment I realize sleeping with an actually other person wouldn’t feel emotionally great because it wouldn’t satisfy my deeper desire of wanting her that way.

As in lets hypothetically say I were to have an affair or even she encouraged me sleep with someone else. In the back of my mind I’d be secretory be wishing that person and those experiences were with my wife instead. I’d hold it against her in weird way.

If I were ever were to sleep with anyone else I’d have to get to a place where this was entirely for my own personal journey, exploration and sexual release and not a compensation to fill a void because that void is an endless black hole of unrealistic expectations.

I’m not sure if any of that makes sense. But I’m trying to reeeealy unpack my desires and expectations so they done cause more disappointments.