When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[Wishingbox]

@Wishingbox, do you sometimes ask yourself, whether all this song and dance routine is truly worth it? Or might you simply be wasting it all on the wrong woman? Keep in mind, some women don’t need all this rigmarole to feel in the mood Because they have a more natural relationship with their own sexuality.

Good luck to you in any case. And PS: thank you for convincing me NOT to spend money on that book you mentioned. And pursue realistic solutions instead.

Even though I’d be really happy with improvements in sexual exploration and frequency my primary goal is for us both to better understand each other and for individual growth. If we both do this work then we both will be much better for it. Even if it means in some years from now we’re no longer together or still together. If I’m fulfilling my sexual needs and wants solely with her or with others we’ll both be better.

So do I wonder if it’s worth it, not really because both our self growth and understanding of each other will be worth it. But do I wonder if all this work will change anything in sexual frequency all the time.

I love her, she’s my best friend and I want to see her grow. I want us both to be better for our marriage in all kinds of ways not just sexual understanding.

 

[LTMMC]

I wish good luck to the two of you!

 

[IASFPWTF]

I can say, based on conversations with other women I've met on line over the years, that you are not the only woman in this situation. Based on what you find in Lit, you would think that this issue is much more common among men, but I"m not even sure about that. It is more common among men on Lit at least in part because there are so many more men on Lit. I think that a major reason for that is that there is less social approbrium for men seeking this kind of outlet.

You can see from the OP and others on here that men feel a lot of guilt at seeking alternative sexual outlets outside of marriage, including masturbation, even when they have chosen a way of obtaining that pleasure that is intentionally designed to avoid entanglements with other women and to preserve their marriage. To those men, I will say - yes, you are not a perfect human being. You are not being completely honest with your wife. But ... you have found an outlet that avoids causing her pain, keeps the marriage together, and is a reasonable compromise with the competing pressures of living. So, don't feel guilty.

But to get back to my point. I think that the socialization of women, especially women of older generations such as mine, makes it more difficult to seek this kind of outlet in a marriage with unbalanced sex drives. The guilt is greater, which makes it less likely for women such as you to find a secondary outlet like Lit. Women often feel that, if the husband is not interested in sex, it must be her fault.

So, anyway, Ingenue, you are far from alone.

I think a lot of men feel that way too.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

I bought an e-book "Mating in Captivity". It is not quite what I expected, however it does provide for some interesting and feasable explanations into the inner workings of our sexual phsyche. (sorry for all the misspellings there).

Valid knowledge can only help in bringing understanding. Understanding may not solve the problem on its own (although it could), but help with the coping of it.

I am almost done reading the book. I may suggest my wife to read it too, if the appropriate time comes. However, I am not going to press it.

 

[Wishingbox]

I bought an e-book "Mating in Captivity". It is not quite what I expected, however it does provide for some interesting and feasable explanations into the inner workings of our sexual phsyche. (sorry for all the misspellings there).

Valid knowledge can only help in bringing understanding. Understanding may not solve the problem on its own (although it could), but help with the coping of it.

I am almost done reading the book. I may suggest my wife to read it too, if the appropriate time comes. However, I am not going to press it.

Yeah that’s in my to read list. I’d recommend the “Come as you are” book. It takes a woman’s first approach on the things. I really like the terms which help frame things.

But as I said above I know she feels bad about her “low drive” (responsive drive) and this book helps reframe some things in more positive ways. Nothing is wrong with how your sexual style is naturally but being self aware of what’s hitting breaks or gas can effect things.

Once I get around to reading “Mating in Captivity” I’ll drop a note here.

 

[Wishingbox]

The next book on this topic is “Wired for Love” by Stan Tatkin.

 

[Bpar721971]

That is me to a hilt!
I rarely initiate, as I am too tired of the rejection or the lame excuses. (Although some excuses are funny to hear.)
I too know that if I get laid today, I can expect no intimacy or closeness for at least a week. (More like 2+ weeks now) So I save the effort and entertain myself for the first week.

Sex timing is tough, I admit. At the end of the day, she is tired or overstressed. Even if it is a green-light, it means a quick session. Pretty much pick the 1 ride you want most at the park, then exit the park as soon as the ride is over. Don't be creative on the rides either.
1st thing in the morning is a little more relaxing, but wife is not a morning person and would rather sleep. Our kid gets up early and comes in our room too. So any hanky panky has to be early and again, fast.
My favorite option is let the kid get on the school bus. We have a good 30 minutes to an hour, before she has to leave for work. (She leaves pretty much whenever she wants.) However, she will often reject this option saying that there is not enough time before she goes to work. Then I watch the clock tick away an hour as I sip my coffee and she is out the door.

I do not feel guilty at all about watching porn. I often watch it with VR glasses. Awesome!!! A+++ I feel like my wife withdrawing is creating an empty place in me. It will get filled one day, but not sure how or with what. Without guilt I would welcome an affair with another woman. Then my wife can have the relationship she wants without being bothered by my touch.

It is not all about sex either. She will complain about touching her or showing affection in public. (anything beyond hand holding or a quick kiss for goodbye/hello) If I want to hug her more than once or too often, she thinks something is wrong with me. I don't get it.

Sounds like my situation perfectly except the downtime between sex is more like 3-4 weeks or more.

 

[Forest_Fun]

Sounds like my situation perfectly except the downtime between sex is more like 3-4 weeks or more.

I’d say the downtime is more like 3-4 month….

 

[Forest_Fun]

Even though I’d be really happy with improvements in sexual exploration and frequency my primary goal is for us both to better understand each other and for individual growth. If we both do this work then we both will be much better for it. Even if it means in some years from now we’re no longer together or still together. If I’m fulfilling my sexual needs and wants solely with her or with others we’ll both be better.

So do I wonder if it’s worth it, not really because both our self growth and understanding of each other will be worth it. But do I wonder if all this work will change anything in sexual frequency all the time.

I love her, she’s my best friend and I want to see her grow. I want us both to be better for our marriage in all kinds of ways not just sexual understanding.

There’s a saying… ”Knowledge is an easy burden to carry”. I have also read those books you’ve been referring to (and many more) and so far I have found them very helpful. I haven’t been able to get my husband to read them (he thinks most books/theories etc regarding psychology is nonsense) but I’ve used the knowledge I’ve gained and we do have a better relationship now. Things can change even if there’s only one person changing. Our relationship wasn’t bad before but it’s even better now.

But it hasn’t changed his sex drive….

 

[Wishingbox]

There’s a saying… ”Knowledge is an easy burden to carry”. I have also read those books you’ve been referring to (and many more) and so far I have found them very helpful. I haven’t been able to get my husband to read them (he thinks most books/theories etc regarding psychology is nonsense) but I’ve used the knowledge I’ve gained and we do have a better relationship now. Things can change even if there’s only one person changing. Our relationship wasn’t bad before but it’s even better now.

But it hasn’t changed his sex drive….

That’s an excellent saying.

I’m sorry that reading them hasn’t helped change things in your marriage either it feels so isolating. We had a chat last night and she reiterated she’s on board to read them but multiple time she’s like but what if we do all this and nothing changes. She’s afraid I’d leave her.

I’m thinking first I don’t want to leave you and my true desire is to have you more. But in the other hand it seems like she unintentionally makes it an ultimatum of deal with it or leave. Although it’s not my first choice I’m thinking why not let me fuck around so all the pressure is off and I’ll always come back and she’d be number one in my life. It’s odd, she says she wants me but then doesn’t end up wanting me. So why not join me and find someone we trust together maybe in the opposite boat. I hook up with her since her husband doesn’t want it as much and we both just explore and have fun together but then go home to our lives.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

That’s an excellent saying.

I’m sorry that reading them hasn’t helped change things in your marriage either it feels so isolating. We had a chat last night and she reiterated she’s on board to read them but multiple time she’s like but what if we do all this and nothing changes. She’s afraid I’d leave her.

I’m thinking first I don’t want to leave you and my true desire is to have you more. But in the other hand it seems like she unintentionally makes it an ultimatum of deal with it or leave. Although it’s not my first choice I’m thinking why not let me fuck around so all the pressure is off and I’ll always come back and she’d be number one in my life. It’s odd, she says she wants me but then doesn’t end up wanting me. So why not join me and find someone we trust together maybe in the opposite boat. I hook up with her since her husband doesn’t want it as much and we both just explore and have fun together but then go home to our lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me. I would go for the same thing as well.

I need to muster up the courage to suggest to my wife to read a chapter or 2 from the book that I have "mating in captivity". I know there are many books out there, but this is the only one I have. Also it is by a woman author. (My wife does not trust a male author on couple's therapy). I also really want her to attend with me a therapist. Right now, we are just going in circles. The circles are getting closer and closer and feels like going down a drain.

 

[Wishingbox]

Sounds like a win-win to me. I would go for the same thing as well.

I need to muster up the courage to suggest to my wife to read a chapter or 2 from the book that I have "mating in captivity". I know there are many books out there, but this is the only one I have. Also it is by a woman author. (My wife does not trust a male author on couple's therapy). I also really want her to attend with me a therapist. Right now, we are just going in circles. The circles are getting closer and closer and feels like going down a drain.

I finished “mating in Captivity” the other day. I know what you’re talking about and I think that book makes a the best case for thirds and open.

However my concern is the emotional maturity and self awareness that would need to be present to even entertain the idea of a third.

We had a somewhat regular argument again on Sunday. It was the “I hope we have sex before we visit family over the weekend but we didn’t so now I wait the whole weekend annoyed and we get back and nothing happens and I feel ignored” argument.

Mixed in with a comment she said the other day about me wanting to leave her for someone else. On Thursday I asked her if she wanted to talk about it she said no and doesn’t talk about it for days so I brought it up.

Gtg more later…

 

[Wishingbox]

That whole conversation Sunday wasn’t awesome but did bring a little clarity. It feels a bit like she’s expecting me to put in all the effort not to look at porn or want to be physical meanwhile accepting it’s the last list on her long list of priorities.

As in this is important to you so you have to do all the work and it’s not important to me so I’m not going to prioritize meeting you half way.

It seems like she thinks her contributing is going to be pretending and fake to be sexual when she’s not into it and I’m trying to convey that it’s more about reducing stresses and turn offs and trying to create more space to become turned. It’s not about faking but about self discovery.

To which she says we’ll what if I can’t change.

 

[Wishingbox]

last night was a better conversation and we read a chapter from the “Come As You Are” book which I think might be a better pre cursor to “mating in captivity”. I say that because unless our partners have a realistic and healthy view of themselves extra things will reaffirm their insecurities about feeling broken.

I hate that she feels broken and I know I’ve contributed to that idea of the decade of marriage by not having a healthy way to talk about this. So in a way we’ve wounded each other and our actions which are a result of our sexual personality types create excess pressure on the other and reinforce insecurities.

Mine is that I’m not attractive enough or good enough in bed to be desired or even worth making a priority to figure out how to be found desirable.

Hers is that she’s broken sexually and nothing she can do will fix her brokenness and one day her brokenness will drive me into the arms of someone else.

But the truth is I want to be in her arms more than anything and even fantasies I have about threesomes revolve around either bringing her extra pleasure or working with her to bring pleasure to another. I get turned on by the idea of unlocking her pleasure.

So my point is unless you both can be honest, open and have a healthy defense against those insecurities any third action is only going to add to hurt and insecurities. Which is why I doubt either of our wives would get anything out of Mating In Captivity other than added shame.

 

[Wishingbox]

I’m trying to get us to a place of truly know ourselves, not being ashamed and embracing our own and each other’s sexual types.

I think embracing that will help in so many ways.

As to the high drive person cheating we talked about it more last night after reading and I said there are two types of feeling abandoned. One is when one partner feels abandoned when their partner and goes off with someone else and I said there is another form of abandonment can happen when a partner completely shuts down or begins withholding intimacy. It’s abandonment in proximity.

She said sleeping with another person is way worse because it involves another person. I said the hurt is the same. We didn’t agree here but I think that stems from our own insecurity etc.

I know if either of us slept with someone else it would hurt the other person more than help at this point. Though part of me would be happy for her to be enjoying sex I’d be hurt she didn’t want it with me. But I’d be open to exploring if other sex or flirting or whatever would increase her desire for me. So in the end we’d actually be more intimate. (I haven’t said this yet since she’s not ready to hear it)

I also said I imagined low drive sex individuals probably seek more emotional affairs over physical.

Anyway it was a good conversation but revealed a lot of hurt we both have in our proverbial gardens and until we deal with those hurts extra people activities would only exacerbate our hurts.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

I did not read into "Mating in Captivity" promoting open or a third person in the relationship. The book is quite open to many ways that couples seek satisfaction and that happens to be additional ways as well. I could not ever entertain a 3rd person anyway. I mean, I could, but she would never. It is a cold day in hell that I get to see my wife's bare breast, much less another person in the bedroom! It has probably been over 4 weeks or longer that she has even seen my naked body. So before I go with another person, I would just want (both of us) to be able to enjoy the other rides at the fair.

I am hoping that she would read the chapter about having children, and that a woman can devote so much energy (and receive energy) from the child, so at the end of the day, she has nothing more to give, but also nothing else she needs to receive. Also about refusing your spouse so much, that it drives him away. There was also a snippet about the spouse giving up so much of his life to conform to the relationship, that it ends up breaking and causing strife and resentment.

I also wish to promote going to a therapist to avoid (as much as possible) anything that can cause further issues. Right now, I already feel very distant. It is something that I do not enjoy, and I do not have much energy to try anymore. I will let her pick a therapist and see where that leads. (If she does it). If she does not, I have found one that I will go visit, as I need a new perspective badly. I feel like she has finally broke me. I want a woman to love, and to love me back. Holding hands sometimes at bedtime is OK, but I would like something more substantial than that. How about affection while we are out and about? I don't know anymore.

She wanted a quickie the other day. She told me to get a towel and some lube. I got in bed, but wanted to take things a little slow. She made it clear that her boobs were off limits, as well as any thing other than "vanilla". We tried to have a discussion about it, but it was basically her throwing the dog a bone. Saying that all I wanted was one thing, so she was going to give it to me. I told her to get dressed. That is not what I want at all. I want her to look forward to it, and enjoy it. Savor the time together! (nope) I said we need to talk about this another time, then went to bed. Her latest offer was 2 weeks from the last, which was also the exact same play. So, I don't think anything will be happening for another 2 weeks.

Now I am just waiting to bring up the therapist visit again. I know that this will alienate me for a day or 2, but I guess I am mostly alienated anyway. With luck, at least I can schedule an office visit for me soon.

I have been entertaining alternative living spaces, as well as applying for local jobs to support myself. I do not want to go down this path at all!

 

[Wishingbox]

I did not read into "Mating in Captivity" promoting open or a third person in the relationship. The book is quite open to many ways that couples seek satisfaction and that happens to be additional ways as well. I could not ever entertain a 3rd person anyway. I mean, I could, but she would never. It is a cold day in hell that I get to see my wife's bare breast, much less another person in the bedroom! It has probably been over 4 weeks or longer that she has even seen my naked body. So before I go with another person, I would just want (both of us) to be able to enjoy the other rides at the fair.

I am hoping that she would read the chapter about having children, and that a woman can devote so much energy (and receive energy) from the child, so at the end of the day, she has nothing more to give, but also nothing else she needs to receive. Also about refusing your spouse so much, that it drives him away. There was also a snippet about the spouse giving up so much of his life to conform to the relationship, that it ends up breaking and causing strife and resentment.

I also wish to promote going to a therapist to avoid (as much as possible) anything that can cause further issues. Right now, I already feel very distant. It is something that I do not enjoy, and I do not have much energy to try anymore. I will let her pick a therapist and see where that leads. (If she does it). If she does not, I have found one that I will go visit, as I need a new perspective badly. I feel like she has finally broke me. I want a woman to love, and to love me back. Holding hands sometimes at bedtime is OK, but I would like something more substantial than that. How about affection while we are out and about? I don't know anymore.

She wanted a quickie the other day. She told me to get a towel and some lube. I got in bed, but wanted to take things a little slow. She made it clear that her boobs were off limits, as well as any thing other than "vanilla". We tried to have a discussion about it, but it was basically her throwing the dog a bone. Saying that all I wanted was one thing, so she was going to give it to me. I told her to get dressed. That is not what I want at all. I want her to look forward to it, and enjoy it. Savor the time together! (nope) I said we need to talk about this another time, then went to bed. Her latest offer was 2 weeks from the last, which was also the exact same play. So, I don't think anything will be happening for another 2 weeks.

Now I am just waiting to bring up the therapist visit again. I know that this will alienate me for a day or 2, but I guess I am mostly alienated anyway. With luck, at least I can schedule an office visit for me soon.

I have been entertaining alternative living spaces, as well as applying for local jobs to support myself. I do not want to go down this path at all!

Ugh my heart goes out to you. It resonates so much.

I’m trying to come to terms with the idea as you said you want her to want it and anticipate it and not do it out of obligation. I think that’s one the things I’m trying to change in my thinking. My wife will likely never or almost never want to anticipate and jump me etc. I’m projecting a version of her I want and not leaning into her sexual type. She’ll never be excited about a sex toy or novelty. But she probably would be opposed to them all specifically if it excites me and she’s warmed up.

But as you know you can’t change your wife and it’s up to them to decide they want to try adjusting the way they live.

I even said list night something along the lines of so it seems like you want me to put in all the effort and not get worked up, not anticipate, not want sex, look at porn, or do anything with anyone else but you’re not putting effort in. She then replies I don’t know why I’m this way or what’s stopping me. Which I then turn back to that’s exactly why I want to read through these things, discuss them, dialogue etc. And which then she always ends with but what if that doesn’t fix it.

I’m thinking we’ll it probably can’t hurt things.

 

[Wishingbox]

I did not read into "Mating in Captivity" promoting open or a third person in the relationship. The book is quite open to many ways that couples seek satisfaction and that happens to be additional ways as well. I could not ever entertain a 3rd person anyway. I mean, I could, but she would never. It is a cold day in hell that I get to see my wife's bare breast, much less another person in the bedroom! It has probably been over 4 weeks or longer that she has even seen my naked body. So before I go with another person, I would just want (both of us) to be able to enjoy the other rides at the fair.

I am hoping that she would read the chapter about having children, and that a woman can devote so much energy (and receive energy) from the child, so at the end of the day, she has nothing more to give, but also nothing else she needs to receive. Also about refusing your spouse so much, that it drives him away. There was also a snippet about the spouse giving up so much of his life to conform to the relationship, that it ends up breaking and causing strife and resentment.

I also wish to promote going to a therapist to avoid (as much as possible) anything that can cause further issues. Right now, I already feel very distant. It is something that I do not enjoy, and I do not have much energy to try anymore. I will let her pick a therapist and see where that leads. (If she does it). If she does not, I have found one that I will go visit, as I need a new perspective badly. I feel like she has finally broke me. I want a woman to love, and to love me back. Holding hands sometimes at bedtime is OK, but I would like something more substantial than that. How about affection while we are out and about? I don't know anymore.

She wanted a quickie the other day. She told me to get a towel and some lube. I got in bed, but wanted to take things a little slow. She made it clear that her boobs were off limits, as well as any thing other than "vanilla". We tried to have a discussion about it, but it was basically her throwing the dog a bone. Saying that all I wanted was one thing, so she was going to give it to me. I told her to get dressed. That is not what I want at all. I want her to look forward to it, and enjoy it. Savor the time together! (nope) I said we need to talk about this another time, then went to bed. Her latest offer was 2 weeks from the last, which was also the exact same play. So, I don't think anything will be happening for another 2 weeks.

Now I am just waiting to bring up the therapist visit again. I know that this will alienate me for a day or 2, but I guess I am mostly alienated anyway. With luck, at least I can schedule an office visit for me soon.

I have been entertaining alternative living spaces, as well as applying for local jobs to support myself. I do not want to go down this path at all!

I hope you’re able to both go to therapy and she learns about herself and you and how you’re both fucking up the conversation and misunderstanding one another etc.

We’re all so complex and struggle to explain what’s hurting or what we’re wanting in a productive way that translates correctly.

Half the time I say something and she’s like so you want something completely different. I’m thinking how did you arrive at that from what I said and vise Versa.

 

[Forest_Fun]

I hope you’re able to both go to therapy and she learns about herself and you and how you’re both fucking up the conversation and misunderstanding one another etc.

We’re all so complex and struggle to explain what’s hurting or what we’re wanting in a productive way that translates correctly.

Half the time I say something and she’s like so you want something completely different. I’m thinking how did you arrive at that from what I said and vise Versa.

The capacity of (not) understanding is unbelievable. I told my hubby once that i wouldn’t initiate sex anymore since he was so rude when rejecting me. He interpreted it as ”you don’t want to ever have sex with me again and you want to divorce me”…. I still don’t understand how he came to that conclusion?

 

[Wishingbox]

The capacity of (not) understanding is unbelievable. I told my hubby once that i wouldn’t initiate sex anymore since he was so rude when rejecting me. He interpreted it as ”you don’t want to ever have sex with me again and you want to divorce me”…. I still don’t understand how he came to that conclusion?

We’re such complex creatures. I think we need to have a lot of grace for one another. My wife and I regularly discuss how complex navigating our own emotions, beliefs etc can all be. It’s like this is what I think, this is what I think I think, and this is what I wish I thought but deep down think this.

All of us struggle with being self aware. We’re so often speaking from places of shame or fears then projecting and guessing. We’re making up what we think he other person is thinking or feeling.

So We aught not get too worked up about the miss communications and complexities when communicating. As soon as we realize there has been miscommunication it should be a growth opportunity to take a step back and re-evaluate what we made up in our minds.

All that to say he’s probably speaking from a place of insecurity and shame mixed with what you’re saying it comes in through this lease of this is what I think she truly wants and this just confirms it.

We humans are so messy.

 

[Wishingbox]

I did not read into "Mating in Captivity" promoting open or a third person in the relationship. The book is quite open to many ways that couples seek satisfaction and that happens to be additional ways as well. I could not ever entertain a 3rd person anyway. I mean, I could, but she would never. It is a cold day in hell that I get to see my wife's bare breast, much less another person in the bedroom! It has probably been over 4 weeks or longer that she has even seen my naked body. So before I go with another person, I would just want (both of us) to be able to enjoy the other rides at the fair.

I am hoping that she would read the chapter about having children, and that a woman can devote so much energy (and receive energy) from the child, so at the end of the day, she has nothing more to give, but also nothing else she needs to receive. Also about refusing your spouse so much, that it drives him away. There was also a snippet about the spouse giving up so much of his life to conform to the relationship, that it ends up breaking and causing strife and resentment.

I also wish to promote going to a therapist to avoid (as much as possible) anything that can cause further issues. Right now, I already feel very distant. It is something that I do not enjoy, and I do not have much energy to try anymore. I will let her pick a therapist and see where that leads. (If she does it). If she does not, I have found one that I will go visit, as I need a new perspective badly. I feel like she has finally broke me. I want a woman to love, and to love me back. Holding hands sometimes at bedtime is OK, but I would like something more substantial than that. How about affection while we are out and about? I don't know anymore.

She wanted a quickie the other day. She told me to get a towel and some lube. I got in bed, but wanted to take things a little slow. She made it clear that her boobs were off limits, as well as any thing other than "vanilla". We tried to have a discussion about it, but it was basically her throwing the dog a bone. Saying that all I wanted was one thing, so she was going to give it to me. I told her to get dressed. That is not what I want at all. I want her to look forward to it, and enjoy it. Savor the time together! (nope) I said we need to talk about this another time, then went to bed. Her latest offer was 2 weeks from the last, which was also the exact same play. So, I don't think anything will be happening for another 2 weeks.

Now I am just waiting to bring up the therapist visit again. I know that this will alienate me for a day or 2, but I guess I am mostly alienated anyway. With luck, at least I can schedule an office visit for me soon.

I have been entertaining alternative living spaces, as well as applying for local jobs to support myself. I do not want to go down this path at all!

I started re-listening to Mating in Captivity. I wa a listening to chapter two about being too close to your partner and how in one example the partner lost themselves in integrating with their spouse.

It reminded me of a comment my wife said recently which was that I should find some more friends or start going out doing my hobbies.

Part of it stems from lid evening so chaotic over the last few years I turned myself inward to take care of her and the family. So I don’t have much outside the house.

Anyway I brought up the chapter and her comment and recommended she listen to it and see if it resonated. I put it on her phone and she was driving to a friends tonight.

Maybe she will listen and it might spark some thoughts or she might keep listening in free time. Who knows.

But either way I thought the content was relevant and maybe that point would resonate with her and get her started.

She asked if that’s what I thought I did and I said I think so. I gave up a lot and very attuned to how she’s feeling so I let go of a lot of things to make sure she and the family were taken care of.

Anyway we shall see. I give it a 50/50 that she’ll actually listen to it. I could see her just coming back saying she forgot or needed silence.

 

[Forest_Fun]

We’re such complex creatures. I think we need to have a lot of grace for one another. My wife and I regularly discuss how complex navigating our own emotions, beliefs etc can all be. It’s like this is what I think, this is what I think I think, and this is what I wish I thought but deep down think this.

All of us struggle with being self aware. We’re so often speaking from places of shame or fears then projecting and guessing. We’re making up what we think he other person is thinking or feeling.

So We aught not get too worked up about the miss communications and complexities when communicating. As soon as we realize there has been miscommunication it should be a growth opportunity to take a step back and re-evaluate what we made up in our minds.

All that to say he’s probably speaking from a place of insecurity and shame mixed with what you’re saying it comes in through this lease of this is what I think she truly wants and this just confirms it.

We humans are so messy.

We sure are messy. I always say that communicating properly is the hardest thing anyone can do. But still, that was just ridiculous- if the topic weren’t so sensitive, we would probably be laughing at it afterwards.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

I started re-listening to Mating in Captivity. I wa a listening to chapter two about being too close to your partner and how in one example the partner lost themselves in integrating with their spouse.

It reminded me of a comment my wife said recently which was that I should find some more friends or start going out doing my hobbies.

Part of it stems from lid evening so chaotic over the last few years I turned myself inward to take care of her and the family. So I don’t have much outside the house.

Anyway I brought up the chapter and her comment and recommended she listen to it and see if it resonated. I put it on her phone and she was driving to a friends tonight.

Maybe she will listen and it might spark some thoughts or she might keep listening in free time. Who knows.

But either way I thought the content was relevant and maybe that point would resonate with her and get her started.

She asked if that’s what I thought I did and I said I think so. I gave up a lot and very attuned to how she’s feeling so I let go of a lot of things to make sure she and the family were taken care of.

Anyway we shall see. I give it a 50/50 that she’ll actually listen to it. I could see her just coming back saying she forgot or needed silence.

My wife has also reminded me of doing things outside the house. Take Tai CHi, an exercise program, meet with some friend (?)...etc. That is all fine and dandy, but what I really want is to be able to walk up to a woman (preferrably my wife) and feel free to embrace her, hug her, and put my arm on her shoulder or hips, without her flinching or knocking my hands away. That is what I want!!! Otherwise, I don't need the temptation of an empty promise in my face.


On another note, I just got back from a stroll along the river and saw a nice looking woman tanning topless. Awesome! I have no idea when I saw my wife's breasts in the daylight last. (or even in any kind of light) Kind lady, I appreciate you bringing your beauty into this world.

 

[adamISOeve]

Elite Goblin, You appear to me the more realistic man who posted here lately, while WishingBox most likely has chosen his username wisely: It is similar to wishful thinking. .... I wish you well also, WB, but it appears to me, you are kidding yourself.

Because some women do feel comfortable about their own sexuality, and that of their husband, and some women never will. Because of all the impediments they have been taught -- or picked up as they wwent through life -- about the subject of sex. And particularly sex between wives and husbands.

You WB are facing the challenge now of "cleaning out" lots of useless and counterproductive ballast that has accumulated in your wife's head and soul. And I figure you will need an endless string of luck to accomplish this.

 

[Wishingbox]

Elite Goblin, You appear to me the more realistic man who posted here lately, while WishingBox most likely has chosen his username wisely: It is similar to wishful thinking. .... I wish you well also, WB, but it appears to me, you are kidding yourself.

Because some women do feel comfortable about their own sexuality, and that of their husband, and some women never will. Because of all the impediments they have been taught -- or picked up as they wwent through life -- about the subject of sex. And particularly sex between wives and husbands.

You WB are facing the challenge now of "cleaning out" lots of useless and counterproductive ballast that has accumulated in your wife's head and soul. And I figure you will need an endless string of luck to accomplish this.

I won’t argue that I’m going naively optimistic.

If we’re honest we all have some area in our sexual landscape that we’re not comfortable with. We may be more or less aware of those issues. And more or less comfortable reflecting on or confronting them.

She isn’t complete closed off to this process it’s just the last priority on her list. We already do this work a lot in other areas of ourselves in ways less associated with sexuality so it’s not that big of a deviation.

The fact that she’s been somewhat open even if begrudgingly makes it worth at least exploring how far or how much she would be willing to change.

I’m not going to give up because the process is slow. We’ve both been much more open over the years than before and have grown. I’m not expecting or even hoping for this huge radical change just enough self growth to make things good enough.