Where Are We?

[Cattypuss]

And in response to your previous objection to that, what possible difference does it make whether a therapist actually cares about you, or if they're in it for the money? (And it is possible for both to be true) That's no more important than whether your plumber is your buddy. You aren't hiring them to be your friend. You're hiring them for a task - In this case, to help you figure out how to be happy.

Et voila. QFT.

 

[silverwhisper]

mac, i don't know WTF is going on with you, but whatever the hell it is, it's very fucking clearly very fucking bad and i'm sorry that it's going on. i truly am.

i haven't been around for a while so i haven't seen the change that more than one person noted in your posts.

but don't fucking waste everyone's time--least of all your own--by lying to yourself about what's going on here. you're posting like a fucking raving lunatic and to be honest, if i never saw other posts by you before this one, you'd be on my iggy list.

yes, you're that fucking incoherent-sounding.

and by the way: it's spelled "fuckin'". it's an abbreviation of "fucking".

ed

 

[fuckmeat]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not aloof either to what's going on here and all over the world. I'm pissed off about it and I expressed it in my post. I'm as guilty as the next man, but it tears me up inside that while I'm sitting here expressing this anger, with every word I type, some kid is dying of AIDS, hunger, torture, etc. Just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean it's not happening. The only way, I repeat: THE ONLY WAY to reverse the dammage being done is for everyone to start working together. Otherwise, you're conscience better be bulletproof.

We've all been there Mac, some more than others. Learning what is and what is not within the reach of your arm is part of gaining maturity and wisdom. Nobody can save every starving child. Nobody can cure every disease. Nobody can destroy every weapon. Nobody can unite a planet.

A good friend of mine finished her nursing training and joined 'Medcins Sans Frontiers' (medics without borders) which is an international humanitarian charity. She found herself in an African backwater where people walk miles for days to receive aid and access the most basic medical care. She saw atrocities, real human tragedies that I will not detail here and she spent about a week incapacitated by her grief and her anger/frustration at the machinations of world politics that had brought about the situation she was posted to.

What she learned and more swiftly that most is that tears and hand-wringing achieve precisely nothing. She reached a point where she had to be told to pull herself together or go home but she stayed over 6 months and I have no doubt that she did a great deal of good and made a huge difference to many lives.

What I'm trying to say is that people's complacency and selfishness is not something you have any control over. We can all picture what the world should be like but peace, tolerance and abundance do not fall into people's laps. Screaming into the sky that things should be different will not make them so or my late partner would have been returned to me. You'll exhaust your heart and soul and still have been of no use to anyone.

All you can do as an individual is make choices about what you personally want to sacrifice in order to make a positive difference to the world. You can give money, time, effort or whatever but you should channel your righteous indignation into something that can be of use to somebody. Otherwise you're just like some celebrity on TV, who exhorts people to donate money while offering nothing tangible or useful themselves.

"For evil to triumph requires only that the good do nothing."

Think on that, then put down your PC, get off your ass and do something altruistic. Unless you choose to be part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[Mac98]

mac, i don't know WTF is going on with you, but whatever the hell it is, it's very fucking clearly very fucking bad and i'm sorry that it's going on. i truly am.

i haven't been around for a while so i haven't seen the change that more than one person noted in your posts.

but don't fucking waste everyone's time--least of all your own--by lying to yourself about what's going on here. you're posting like a fucking raving lunatic and to be honest, if i never saw other posts by you before this one, you'd be on my iggy list.

yes, you're that fucking incoherent-sounding.

and by the way: it's spelled "fuckin'". it's an abbreviation of "fucking".

ed

I'm sorry my opinions have lost me your respect, Ed. But I won't change my way of thinking because you don't agree with it. That being said, no one is forcing you to read any of this. If you don't want to you don't have to.

And let's not start calling the grammar police. If you have a problem with the way I spell "fucken", e-mail Chris Rock and he'll tell you why he writes it with and "e" along with many other people.

We've all been there Mac, some more than others. Learning what is and what is not within the reach of your arm is part of gaining maturity and wisdom. Nobody can save every starving child. Nobody can cure every disease. Nobody can destroy every weapon. Nobody can unite a planet.

A good friend of mine finished her nursing training and joined 'Medcins Sans Frontiers' (medics without borders) which is an international humanitarian charity. She found herself in an African backwater where people walk miles for days to receive aid and access the most basic medical care. She saw atrocities, real human tragedies that I will not detail here and she spent about a week incapacitated by her grief and her anger/frustration at the machinations of world politics that had brought about the situation she was posted to.

What she learned and more swiftly that most is that tears and hand-wringing achieve precisely nothing. She reached a point where she had to be told to pull herself together or go home but she stayed over 6 months and I have no doubt that she did a great deal of good and made a huge difference to many lives.

What I'm trying to say is that people's complacency and selfishness is not something you have any control over. We can all picture what the world should be like but peace, tolerance and abundance do not fall into people's laps. Screaming into the sky that things should be different will not make them so or my late partner would have been returned to me. You'll exhaust your heart and soul and still have been of no use to anyone.

All you can do as an individual is make choices about what you personally want to sacrifice in order to make a positive difference to the world. You can give money, time, effort or whatever but you should channel your righteous indignation into something that can be of use to somebody. Otherwise you're just like some celebrity on TV, who exhorts people to donate money while offering nothing tangible or useful themselves.

"For evil to triumph requires only that the good do nothing."

Think on that, then put down your PC, get off your ass and do something altruistic. Unless you choose to be part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I've said before, Fuckmeat (still an awesome name, btw), that I admit to being part of the problem because I haven't done anything thus far to change anything. Well, I mean, I've done minor things like boycott Wal-Mart and stuff but let's be honest, that isn't really doing much. I've never said I was better than anyone here and by pointing the finger, I'm aware that "three are pointing back at me". I'm not being pretentious or pretending that I'm better than any of you. I'm just expressing my anger toward the way things are.

And I admire what your friend has done and I'm sorry for your loss. Life isn't meant to be fair and I acknowledge that. The challenge is part of the process of living. But that doesn't mean the challenge has to be impossible. What's the point of living if all you ever do is survive? I'm aware that I, nor anyone else, can do anything on their own. I know that my anger toward the system, toward how people are behaving and whatnot will change absolutely nothing. That's why I'm saying we have to come together. Until we learn to do that we'll never go forward. And sure, it's easy to say "Well just look at the pretty stuff in life" when we're living the good life over west. But reality is that most people don't get these luxuries. They were born impoverished and are destined to be till they die and I have an excessively hard time accepting that.

That's all I'm saying, really. I shouldn't have to apologize for how I feel, but for the sake of ending the flames, I will. Sorry. I'm just sick of seeing the way things are. From regular human behavior to warfare, greed and power.

But just a quick question: Did your friend choose to go to the African backwater or did Medecins Sans Frontieres choose for her?

 

[culloden]

Clearly.





I'm not going to argue the definition of "selfishness" or what it means to me cuz that'll bring us on a whole 'nother topic and I think people are already exhausted with just this one, but I will ask you, however, whether it's better, for the sake of our "freedom of choice" to ignore what's going on in other countries rather than to unite and help our fellow man? You're right. I won't force you to do anything and no one should. If mature enough, people should have the common sense to WANT to help out. There is a system in place where, whether we admit it or not, ONE man decides in what direction YOUR country is going in (well, this one man is told by many other wealthy men what to do, but that's another story too) and we, like slaves, have no choice but to accept whatever this one man chooses for us. Is that not what you just finished saying you didn't want happening?

This "democracy" is a total falacy. The only decision you get is which person, among two options, will end up choosing FOR you in the next 4 years... and even then, many people are starting to question how much their vote actually counts for.

If we all remain individuals then this will keep going on till we become full-blown sheep being dictated completely. At that point, I'm sure they'll have conned us all into believing we're free anyways!

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not aloof either to what's going on here and all over the world. I'm pissed off about it and I expressed it in my post. I'm as guilty as the next man, but it tears me up inside that while I'm sitting here expressing this anger, with every word I type, some kid is dying of AIDS, hunger, torture, etc. Just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean it's not happening. The only way, I repeat: THE ONLY WAY to reverse the dammage being done is for everyone to start working together. Otherwise, you're conscience better be bulletproof.

If anyone feels attacked, I apologize. I never pretended that I'm not part of the problem but I'm sick of seeing where we are and where we're heading. We have the luxury to have been born in a "rich" country (or continent, I should say) but reality is that we're a minority. And even WE aren't totally free like we could and should be. The rich get richer and the poor die trying.

You guys are free to perceive what I'm saying as utterly pessimistic and negative but I prefer thinking of it as someone sick of seeing his fellow man fall and having no power to do anything about it. If I'm pessimistic, it's cause the whole damn world is not where it should be at.

Dude, one man does not decide what happens in the US. And most of us, including me, go out of our way to help out our fellow man.

But the truth is that we can't fix, for example, Somalia. We can't even fix our own inner cities. That's because those places are stuck in political and social paradigms that prevent them from being affluent, or even safe. Yeah, blaming the victim, 's truth. But who else is at fault? We can give money, food, and what have you until we have nothing left to give. But unless those cultures change so they can be the engines of their own prosperity, when we're totally broke and exhausted, they'll go right back to being what they are.

We're lucky to live in a time and place with institutions that foster affluence. And we should thank God for that luck.

That said, how about you say what you mean by us all working together? First, who is us? Just the first world people with wealth and knowledge to fix the world's problems? Or do we include the second and third world folks, too? What if they don't want the path we think will work for them? After all, it is just the slightest bit arrogant to suggest we can fix someone else's problem.

My advice? Accept the world isn't fair. Be kind and charitable. But don't feel guilty that you've been vaccinated against polio, and that you go to bed warm and fed, and that you can take a shower every day.

 

[culloden]

I don't know why I keep posting here, but I'm drawn..

"If we all remain individuals then this will keep going on till we become full-blown sheep being dictated completely."

This is contradictory in an Orwellian way. In the context of your earlier posts, you seem to be saying, "To be an individual, unite with everyone else!"

You're in college, right? Have you taken any philosophy or logic classes? I'd recommend them.

 

[coastal-boy]

I'm sorry my opinions have lost me your respect

It isn't your opinions that are a problem Mac, it is your attitude that has lost the respect of many people here. I'm sorry you refuse to accept this (I have not seen one positive response supporting your rant...other than from you) and to understand a simple basic fact of life: That you are responsible for your own happiness...not others. You blame your anger and pessimism on the World and other people. In other words, you have provided justification to your anger. May I suggest the book "Illusions" by Richard Bach.

I for one, will never make the mistake of trying to help you again, even if I could. In your mind...I would be to blame for this future lack of "moral" compassion. In your mind, I become a perfect example of what you are complaining about. You are "sick of regular human behavior" (direct quote). In my mind, you are a very angry person who has lost grasp with reality and I am simply not willing to point out the obvious at the risk of esculating your misdirected anger because I understand there are people around you that must cope with you directly. I hope you find peace.

 

[Mac98]

It isn't your opinions that are a problem Mac, it is your attitude that has lost the respect of many people here. I'm sorry you refuse to accept this (I have not seen one positive response supporting your rant...other than from you) and to understand a simple basic fact of life: That you are responsible for your own happiness...not others. You blame your anger and pessimism on the World and other people. In other words, you have provided justification to your anger. May I suggest the book "Illusions" by Richard Bach.

I for one, will never make the mistake of trying to help you again, even if I could. In your mind...I would be to blame for this future lack of "moral" compassion. In your mind, I become a perfect example of what you are complaining about. You are "sick of regular human behavior" (direct quote). In my mind, you are a very angry person who has lost grasp with reality and I am simply not willing to point out the obvious at the risk of esculating your misdirected anger because I understand there are people around you that must cope with you directly. I hope you find peace.

You don't have to help me out again. If this has offended you this much, then I find that sad. But you aren't the only one. Silverwhisper seems to feel I'm completely out of it too. My attitude is in direct link to my opinions. If you feel I'm dumping my anger on your shoulders then that's too bad, cuz I never made illusion to me being better than any of you.

And from what I was told, putting my thoughts and emotions into words was better than punching holes through doors. Is it not?

Dude, one man does not decide what happens in the US. And most of us, including me, go out of our way to help out our fellow man.

But the truth is that we can't fix, for example, Somalia. We can't even fix our own inner cities. That's because those places are stuck in political and social paradigms that prevent them from being affluent, or even safe. Yeah, blaming the victim, 's truth. But who else is at fault? We can give money, food, and what have you until we have nothing left to give. But unless those cultures change so they can be the engines of their own prosperity, when we're totally broke and exhausted, they'll go right back to being what they are.

We're lucky to live in a time and place with institutions that foster affluence. And we should thank God for that luck.

That said, how about you say what you mean by us all working together? First, who is us? Just the first world people with wealth and knowledge to fix the world's problems? Or do we include the second and third world folks, too? What if they don't want the path we think will work for them? After all, it is just the slightest bit arrogant to suggest we can fix someone else's problem.

My advice? Accept the world isn't fair. Be kind and charitable. But don't feel guilty that you've been vaccinated against polio, and that you go to bed warm and fed, and that you can take a shower every day.

I don't know why I keep posting here, but I'm drawn..

"If we all remain individuals then this will keep going on till we become full-blown sheep being dictated completely."

This is contradictory in an Orwellian way. In the context of your earlier posts, you seem to be saying, "To be an individual, unite with everyone else!"

You're in college, right? Have you taken any philosophy or logic classes? I'd recommend them.

I was in college. Had to drop out, though (But don't any of you worry, I'll be resuming in September). And philosophy classes were obligational but our teacher constantly refused to get in too deep in such discussions (or any intense discussions, as a matter of fact).

And I'm not saying to be an individual, unite with everyone else, what I'm saying is to stop thinking solely of yourself. It wasn't the best choice of words, it wasn't what I meant. When I say "Us" I mean "us". Everyone. You, me, him, her, they, we, tall, short, rich, poor, fat, skinny. But, we can't do that unless Obama, Harper, Sarcosi, Cameron and/or Jiabao (along with pretty much every other leader) start putting aside differences and ending their race to ultimate power and start seeing the world for what it is. There's no doing this when we have no control over what is being said and done. This would end up meaning revolution, but not necessarily violent. At least not for all nations. Places like China and other dictated countries would probably end up meeting a lot of heart ache, but their people already have so little, what would they really have to lose? It's the rich countries like Canada, US, France, Britain, etc. that have the most to lose. Boycotting would probably be on top of the list. Mass-protest works miracles. Look what happened in Bolivia when water was privatized. "The people, united, will never be defeated." to me, is the single, greatest saying I've ever heard.

There are so many natural ressources (other than fossil fuels) available to us. The planet could be cleaned up in a matter of years. There's no TRUE irreversable dammage that's been done. The planet will rebuild itself if we stop suffocating it. This would also cost less, it would be more effecient and in the end, would benefit the entire planet. It would economize enough money to start erasing national and international debt and to then start rebuilding broken down countries. There's no need for ONE person to be in charge of any of this. We can make collective decisions. There ARE ways and systems other than this one that could work much better than this ever has. But then that would mean tremendous sacrifices on our part, especially, and for country leaders to finally drop arms and hug. Maybe that's looking at a future through rose-colored glasses but it's just incredibly sad to know that it's completely possible.

Having the chance to start over new would mean better educational systems and ultimately a change in our behavior. Acceptance over tollerance. Nothing can ever be perfect, but it doesn't have to be such a dilapitated mess either.

 

[NippleMuncher]

People, people, people! Get a clue!!! You're feeding a troll!!!

No offense meant to Mac, but he's made his position extremely clear, he wants to dwell in this negativity. Each and every post by everyone now is just feeding his negativity and spurning him on.

Everyone needs to do EXACTLY what Mac has asked us to do and UNITE! STOP FEEDING HIS NEED FOR NEGATIVITY!

 

[NomadLady]

People, people, people! Get a clue!!! You're feeding a troll!!!

No offense meant to Mac, but he's made his position extremely clear, he wants to dwell in this negativity. Each and every post by everyone now is just feeding his negativity and spurning him on.

Everyone needs to do EXACTLY what Mac has asked us to do and UNITE! STOP FEEDING HIS NEED FOR NEGATIVITY!

Very well put NM...."misery loves company" and you all are just feeding MAC's insecure need for attention. One person can make a difference, the problem is MAC thinks that difference needs to be some HUGE GLOBALLY accepted change and it just doesn't.

I make a difference everyday of my life as I am caring for a terminally ill parent, at home so that she can die with dignity in a place she loved and raised three children as opposed to putting her in a nursing home to vegatate her remaining days away. MAC....if you want to make a difference, I would welcome a break for the weekend or so and then YOU could make a small difference too. I'm no martyr and am not seeking praise, but I am doing something that we all should do when the time comes instead of packing off a parent to an already overburdended healthcare system just so you aren't "bothered" with having to care for the person/persons who took care of you for 18 or so years.

MAC...your negativity doesn't make you special, there are alot of people out there just like you that sit on the sidelines and point fingers instead of getting off the bench to help.

 

[Mac98]

People, people, people! Get a clue!!! You're feeding a troll!!!

No offense meant to Mac, but he's made his position extremely clear, he wants to dwell in this negativity. Each and every post by everyone now is just feeding his negativity and spurning him on.

Everyone needs to do EXACTLY what Mac has asked us to do and UNITE! STOP FEEDING HIS NEED FOR NEGATIVITY!

Nip, no need to be a hypocrit. You just finished saying uniting was extremely negative! PEOPLE, DON'T UNITE, IT'S WAY TOO NEGATIVE TO DO SO!!

Very well put NM...."misery loves company" and you all are just feeding MAC's insecure need for attention. One person can make a difference, the problem is MAC thinks that difference needs to be some HUGE GLOBALLY accepted change and it just doesn't.

I make a difference everyday of my life as I am caring for a terminally ill parent, at home so that she can die with dignity in a place she loved and raised three children as opposed to putting her in a nursing home to vegatate her remaining days away. MAC....if you want to make a difference, I would welcome a break for the weekend or so and then YOU could make a small difference too. I'm no martyr and am not seeking praise, but I am doing something that we all should do when the time comes instead of packing off a parent to an already overburdended healthcare system just so you aren't "bothered" with having to care for the person/persons who took care of you for 18 or so years.

MAC...your negativity doesn't make you special, there are alot of people out there just like you that sit on the sidelines and point fingers instead of getting off the bench to help.

I don't mean to spit at what you're doing 'cause I find it noble and grateful and respect it a lot, but 30 years down the road, what will it really have changed? This doesn't mean not to do it because some is always better than none and in the end, the elder you're taking care of will die peacefully and (probably) happy. I don't know how many times I have to repeat saying "Don't stop doing the smaller things but we need to start working together to instigate bigger and better changes". And please! I never pointed the finger because I've said time and time again that I include myself in this.

 

[bailadora]

I swore I wasn't going to say anything else, but this thread is like a train wreck - it's so bad that you just can't look away.

And please! I never pointed the finger because I've said time and time again that I include myself in this.

Let me ask you a question, Mac - how in the world do you expect to motivate or influence anyone to contribute anything to the greater good of the world when you yourself have done nothing towards that goal? I don't know of many people who would follow a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. You keep saying you include yourself in the "need to unite", but I've yet to see you put forth any evidence of how you personally are putting in the hard work to make that happen. Ever hear of the phrase "actions speak louder than words?" Well so far, your actions have proven your words are nothing more than empty rhetoric, making you the epitome of the very hypocrites you are ranting and railing against. People will not and do not follow hypocrites, Mac.

 

[SweetErika]

Nip, no need to be a hypocrit. You just finished saying uniting was extremely negative! PEOPLE, DON'T UNITE, IT'S WAY TOO NEGATIVE TO DO SO!!

If that's what you got from NM's post, your reading comprehension needs some work. He clearly said we should unite and stop feeding your negativity.

I don't mean to spit at what you're doing 'cause I find it noble and grateful and respect it a lot, but 30 years down the road, what will it really have changed? This doesn't mean not to do it because some is always better than none and in the end, the elder you're taking care of will die peacefully and (probably) happy. I don't know how many times I have to repeat saying "Don't stop doing the smaller things but we need to start working together to instigate bigger and better changes". And please! I never pointed the finger because I've said time and time again that I include myself in this.

I'll tell you what it will change. NL will feel good about what she did, and likely continue on to do nice things for people, instead of wallowing in sadness and guilt over how she treated her parent.

If you truly include yourself in it, how about talking less and acting more? With all of the time you've spent talking about uniting in this thread alone, you could have joined with others who are making a difference and made a difference in your community, country or world. You could have served a bunch of people meals, gathered goods or money for the needy, spent time with a bunch of homeless animals, put in some extra hours at work to fund donations, etc. Or, if you have better ideas, spend your time planning them out and putting them into action. Just be aware of how you approach people, because the way you've done it in this thread isn't going to work well for you if you're interested in encouraging people to make a difference. Pick something(s) you passionate about, and get to work, instead of focusing on telling everyone else that they need to get to work.

 

[Mac98]

If that's what you got from NM's post, your reading comprehension needs some work. He clearly said we should unite and stop feeding your negativity.

I'll tell you what it will change. NL will feel good about what she did, and likely continue on to do nice things for people, instead of wallowing in sadness and guilt over how she treated her parent.

If you truly include yourself in it, how about talking less and acting more? With all of the time you've spent talking about uniting in this thread alone, you could have joined with others who are making a difference and made a difference in your community, country or world. You could have served a bunch of people meals, gathered goods or money for the needy, spent time with a bunch of homeless animals, put in some extra hours at work to fund donations, etc. Or, if you have better ideas, spend your time planning them out and putting them into action. Just be aware of how you approach people, because the way you've done it in this thread isn't going to work well for you if you're interested in encouraging people to make a difference. Pick something(s) you passionate about, and get to work, instead of focusing on telling everyone else that they need to get to work.

Nip was being smart. I agree that people can stop coming to this thread if they have nothing else to say. I would gladly let this thread die if people stopped paying attention to it. But Nip used what I said in a whole different context to mock me. It's not that big a deal, I just used what he said in another context... why I'm even wasting my time explaining this, I don't know. The power of the internet compels me, I guess.

And to the rest of your comment, my answer is pretty much the same as what I answered Bailadora below.

I swore I wasn't going to say anything else, but this thread is like a train wreck - it's so bad that you just can't look away.

Let me ask you a question, Mac - how in the world do you expect to motivate or influence anyone to contribute anything to the greater good of the world when you yourself have done nothing towards that goal? I don't know of many people who would follow a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. You keep saying you include yourself in the "need to unite", but I've yet to see you put forth any evidence of how you personally are putting in the hard work to make that happen. Ever hear of the phrase "actions speak louder than words?" Well so far, your actions have proven your words are nothing more than empty rhetoric, making you the epitome of the very hypocrites you are ranting and railing against. People will not and do not follow hypocrites, Mac.

To be quite honest, whatever I will be doing to help for the greater good is suspended till I'm done moving. Right now it would be worthless since I'm going across the country to live. I do have projects for the near future to help out in whatever way I can but without jeopardizing myself too much (in terms of time, health, etc.) (I haven't spoken about this because it would, in the end, raise the comment of "that's just an excuse" which I guess it can be seen as one). If I knew 90% of the world population went out of their way to help others and push in the right direction, I probably wouldn't be here. And the point of this thread wasn't to push people to start doing something because I know how futile it is and would probably have been flamed anyways. I did it to express my anger on an issue. But like I said, it's almost as if people feel offended or blamed for this and react so defensive. Is it so hard to admit the world is nowhere near being perfect or at least really great? I don't honestly care about my own personal happiness half as much as I do for the rest of the world's.

 

[fuckmeat]

 

[LaurahW]

I spent a lot of years being angry over things I had no control over. At this point in my life I choose to be content, comfortable and uncomplicated.

 

[Cattypuss]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Doing stuff individually etc is pointless? Well Mac if that's a handy addition to your arsenal of excuses for doing nothing and just bitching instead, all well and good.

But here's a thing. The world is made up of individuals.

Example.

I volunteer in my spare time for an organisation that provides a listening service for people who are suicidal or otherwise highly distressed. I just sit there for three hours a week, picking up the phone and listening to anonymous strangers who need an ear.

Do I wish the world were the kind of place where nobody needed that service? Of course I do! But I'm a grown-up and I know that the world will never be perfect. Or even if we imagine it will, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. So in the meantime, guess what! I try to help individuals in need.

And if you want to argue that individual, small scale action like that changes nothing (as you did re. Nomad Lady's situation, which is quite similar), consider this -

At Christmas our organisation got a letter from a lady who had phoned us, on the very point of suicide, 30 years ago at Christmas. The compassion and understanding she received from the listener she got through to made her pause. Now, 30 years on, she writes to tell us that since a year after that phone call she has led a happy and healthy and fulfilled life, has had a daughter and has recently become a proud and happy grandmother. She wanted to thank our listeners for the difference they make.

Don't you get it, Mac? Every bowl of soup you hand out at a homeless shelter, every dollar you give to a charity etc etc etc - it all makes a difference because it all affects SOMEONE'S LIFE positively - and what's the world you're talking about really, except for a collection of people's lives? People all over the world are suffering, RIGHT THIS INSTANT, and every one of us has the ability, individually, to ease that suffering for at least one of those people.

We're not defensive btw - we're irritated and nonplussed by your holier-than-thou attitude, when you by your own admission do nothing to help anyone.

 

[Cattypuss]

Seems I can't stay away from this car crash of a thread, now, either.

Ten years ago I was walking through central London with my good friend, who happened to be a communist.

I gave some money to a beggar and my friend told me I was wasting my money.

When I asked him why, he said individual acts of charity just paper over the cracks - that the wall needs to be knocked down, rebuilt and replastered (via at least countrywide massive political shifts). That papering over the cracks helps nobody.

I was shocked and I said to him that giving that money to that beggar changed an awful lot for that beggar. He admitted that this was true but felt it didn't matter - the only thing that mattered was changing the system into one where nobody had to beg.

And here we are ten years on, with a right-of-centre government, with more beggars on the street... and my friend still hasn't helped a single one of them.

High ideals can end up helping nobody. Small acts of kindness nearly always make a real difference to the recipient.

When you said that Mother Teresa achieved nothing, you were very, very mistaken. She completely changed life for actual, living, feeling human beings. That meant EVERYTHING to those people.

 

[SweetErika]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Doing stuff individually etc is pointless? Well Mac if that's a handy addition to your arsenal of excuses for doing nothing and just bitching instead, all well and good.

But here's a thing. The world is made up of individuals.

Example.

I volunteer in my spare time for an organisation that provides a listening service for people who are suicidal or otherwise highly distressed. I just sit there for three hours a week, picking up the phone and listening to anonymous strangers who need an ear.

Do I wish the world were the kind of place where nobody needed that service? Of course I do! But I'm a grown-up and I know that the world will never be perfect. Or even if we imagine it will, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. So in the meantime, guess what! I try to help individuals in need.

And if you want to argue that individual, small scale action like that changes nothing (as you did re. Nomad Lady's situation, which is quite similar), consider this -

At Christmas our organisation got a letter from a lady who had phoned us, on the very point of suicide, 30 years ago at Christmas. The compassion and understanding she received from the listener she got through to made her pause. Now, 30 years on, she writes to tell us that since a year after that phone call she has led a happy and healthy and fulfilled life, has had a daughter and has recently become a proud and happy grandmother. She wanted to thank our listeners for the difference they make.

Don't you get it, Mac? Every bowl of soup you hand out at a homeless shelter, every dollar you give to a charity etc etc etc - it all makes a difference because it all affects SOMEONE'S LIFE positively - and what's the world you're talking about really, except for a collection of people's lives? People all over the world are suffering, RIGHT THIS INSTANT, and every one of us has the ability, individually, to ease that suffering for at least one of those people.

We're not defensive btw - we're irritated and nonplussed by your holier-than-thou attitude, when you by your own admission do nothing to help anyone.

Very well said, Cattypuss, and thanks for the good work you're doing.

That last line pretty much sums it up.

 

[littlebabyclit]

I spent a lot of years being angry over things I had no control over. At this point in my life I choose to be content, comfortable and uncomplicated.

I've been there and I agree with this plan.




But as a formerly very angry individual, I do know that it takes some people years and years of exposure to life and different people, differing philosophies and ways of doing things before they are willing to consider channeling anger in more positive ways.

Anger, indignation, moral outrage aren't bad things, but they can be if you don't know how to use or wield them.

Bottom line: As everyone else has already said, do- don't just talk, brood, stew, fume, lament, complain- when something riles you up and you want to change or improve things.

 

[SweetErika]

But as a formerly very angry individual, I do know that it takes some people years and years of exposure to life and different people, differing philosophies and ways of doing things before they are willing to consider channeling anger in more positive ways.

If you don't mind, LBC, would you share how you changed your outlook? What clicked for you and/or made you want to change? How did you learn new coping mechanisms, or was there anything you found particularly helpful while you were growing?

I think it'd be helpful for me and others. I'm not usually an angry person, but I certainly have my moments, and I definitely have trouble dealing with people who are angry in general.

 

[Mac98]

LOL nice... nice...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Doing stuff individually etc is pointless? Well Mac if that's a handy addition to your arsenal of excuses for doing nothing and just bitching instead, all well and good.

But here's a thing. The world is made up of individuals.

Example.

I volunteer in my spare time for an organisation that provides a listening service for people who are suicidal or otherwise highly distressed. I just sit there for three hours a week, picking up the phone and listening to anonymous strangers who need an ear.

Do I wish the world were the kind of place where nobody needed that service? Of course I do! But I'm a grown-up and I know that the world will never be perfect. Or even if we imagine it will, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. So in the meantime, guess what! I try to help individuals in need.

And if you want to argue that individual, small scale action like that changes nothing (as you did re. Nomad Lady's situation, which is quite similar), consider this -

At Christmas our organisation got a letter from a lady who had phoned us, on the very point of suicide, 30 years ago at Christmas. The compassion and understanding she received from the listener she got through to made her pause. Now, 30 years on, she writes to tell us that since a year after that phone call she has led a happy and healthy and fulfilled life, has had a daughter and has recently become a proud and happy grandmother. She wanted to thank our listeners for the difference they make.

Don't you get it, Mac? Every bowl of soup you hand out at a homeless shelter, every dollar you give to a charity etc etc etc - it all makes a difference because it all affects SOMEONE'S LIFE positively - and what's the world you're talking about really, except for a collection of people's lives? People all over the world are suffering, RIGHT THIS INSTANT, and every one of us has the ability, individually, to ease that suffering for at least one of those people.

We're not defensive btw - we're irritated and nonplussed by your holier-than-thou attitude, when you by your own admission do nothing to help anyone.

God! When I say "drop the individual" I don't mean to conform and march on like a robot in disguise! All I'm saying is stop thinking of yourselves all the time. And I never said to STOP doing these things. In fact, what I'm saying, bottom line, is that we should ALL be doing it. But the little we do changes nothing in the long run. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT OR HELP OTHERS. I'm not sure how I could possibly make this any clearer! I admire all your volunteer work and can't show my respect for that enough. In the long run, the world will still be a shithole despite all this work you do. Changes must be drastic and collective. That's all I'm saying.

Seems I can't stay away from this car crash of a thread, now, either.

Ten years ago I was walking through central London with my good friend, who happened to be a communist.

I gave some money to a beggar and my friend told me I was wasting my money.

When I asked him why, he said individual acts of charity just paper over the cracks - that the wall needs to be knocked down, rebuilt and replastered (via at least countrywide massive political shifts). That papering over the cracks helps nobody.

I was shocked and I said to him that giving that money to that beggar changed an awful lot for that beggar. He admitted that this was true but felt it didn't matter - the only thing that mattered was changing the system into one where nobody had to beg.

And here we are ten years on, with a right-of-centre government, with more beggars on the street... and my friend still hasn't helped a single one of them.

High ideals can end up helping nobody. Small acts of kindness nearly always make a real difference to the recipient.

When you said that Mother Teresa achieved nothing, you were very, very mistaken. She completely changed life for actual, living, feeling human beings. That meant EVERYTHING to those people.

You're friend was still right, though. Of course, with the fall of communism, we've seen that this system will ultimately have huge loopholes and will ultimatley fail just as much as capitalism. But this doesn't mean it's wrong to give money to beggers which I do almost everytime I'm asked, if I have money to give. Mother Teresa helped a lot of people, especially AIDS patients in empoverished countries, but in the long run, it's helped nothing. Again, like I said to Cattypuss, that doesn't mean she was wrong and that she failed or should have just stayed home and lay in bed. What I'm saying is that it's futile because those of us helping are a very small minority. Those of us doing nothing constitute a large part of the wealthy population.

I've been there and I agree with this plan.




But as a formerly very angry individual, I do know that it takes some people years and years of exposure to life and different people, differing philosophies and ways of doing things before they are willing to consider channeling anger in more positive ways.

Anger, indignation, moral outrage aren't bad things, but they can be if you don't know how to use or wield them.

Bottom line: As everyone else has already said, do- don't just talk, brood, stew, fume, lament, complain- when something riles you up and you want to change or improve things.

Malcolm X was angry. He reached out to a lot of people with his anger. Same thing goes for Howard Biel. Of course it's wrong to misdirect your anger or to start shooting up public places. I still prefer ranting on Lit and be flamed for expressing myself than to break my hand again. You can all disagree as much as you want, these are my opinions and I prefer upsetting a few people than destroying something else in my home.

 

[Cattypuss]

Mother Teresa helped a lot of people, especially AIDS patients in empoverished countries, but in the long run, it's helped nothing. Again, like I said to Cattypuss, that doesn't mean she was wrong and that she failed or should have just stayed home and lay in bed. What I'm saying is that it's futile because those of us helping are a very small minority. Those of us doing nothing constitute a large part of the wealthy population.

.

Actually more people help than you think - most don't crow about it.

And try telling someone who experienced peace and comfort in their (otherwise appalling) life thanks to Mother Teresa that her work was futile.

 

[Mac98]

And try telling someone who experienced peace and comfort in their (otherwise appalling) life thanks to Mother Teresa that her work was futile.

That's the art of mincing words. I've repeated time and time again that she HAS helped people but that in the long run (100 years down the road or even 10 or 30) it will have changed nothing on a big scale. Sure, many people are alive today because of what she did, but the world is still a shithole and despite her best efforts will remain one for quite some time.

...Is this really not getting through to anyone? Is it some internet glitch that zones out the brain into missing the repeated times I've said that she and many others have done wonders for the world but that in the long run it'll have changed nothing because not enough people are helping?

And as for more people are helping than I think. If we put it in numbers, I'm pretty sure the ratio would range around the 10:1.

For every 10 people who don't help at all, 1 person does.

 

[Cattypuss]

Mac, it's not the art of mincing words. If you want to rant about how people being humane to other people still leaves the world as a shithole, fine.

And why the insistence on being one of the 10 who don't help?

Ach. Whatever. I give up. You're too full of misplaced righteous indignation to hear sense.