Who has the power in a D/s relationship?

[the captians wench]

This has been very interesting, and I've been trying to stay out of this thread because I'm not sure where I stand.

On one end, I admire osg and cat for their dedication. It amazes me what they have done and how far they agreed to take their submission. It's something that i have dreamed of, but know I'm not ready for that, if I ever will be. For now I'm happy with taking things a few steps at a time and handing over more and more power to the one I love each step. I wish I could hand everything over in one package, but he actually stops that as he's concerned over if that's actually what's best for me, and for us, and at this point it's not. I realize that, but it's hard for me to admit to.

When I first started looking into bdsm, I didn't understand this concept of safewords that I was encoraged to use. I didn't understand why I should have any control over how a scene went. I knew I had/have areas I wasn't/am not into or interested in, but I didn't understand the concept of being able to say "look I'm not into it, I'm not going there". It was actually Jounar, and the friends who were introducing me to this stuff that insisted I figure out what I'm into, that I start listing limits, that I start using safewords.

Was it nieve of me to believe that the dom should hold total control? Perhaps. Or perhaps that is what this means to me, where I want my life to lead to and the path I belong on. I realize now that I was not ready for that path when I desired it so profusely. I had a lot of things I needed to be able to do and see first. Things to discover inside of myself, and perhaps even things I needed to get over. But it is how I see my life eventually going. My mom however still holds hope that I'll snap to my sinces and realize this is just some fun sex stuff. *giggles*

 

[Etoile]

Eventually this comes down to - "Who has the power in a hot fudge sundae, the hot fudge or the ice cream?"

Uh...it's yummy? The combination, that is. Alone, not as good, "Oh, but the fudge melts the ice cream." "Yeah, but the ice cream mellows out the heat and sharpness of the fudge."

Figure out the power exchange however you want, but it really should be much less about keeping score and more about the yummy.

Best. Post. EVER. Srsly.

I can certainly understand the desire to navel-gaze, contemplate, discuss, etc. I like doing it myself. But in a case like this particular question, the answer is always going to be "it depends on the people involved." And so, an answer like the above is really the best one.

Oh, and I don't have a safeword either. Never have, even in the beginning before we learned that "whether you're just screaming no or whether there's a serious problem" unspoken communication. It doesn't mean I'm SuperSlave, it doesn't mean I'm empowered, it doesn't mean I'm powerless. It's just a fact of my relationship. And again, everybody's relationship is different. So let's all have some ice cream.

 

[kittyblack]

You could change employers every day... just work for a temp agency. Weeee!

working temp is HIDEOUS!!!!!!!!
temps have NO power if they wish to remain employed.
even in an @ will state like MI, all it takes to be replaced
as a temp is one wrong word or needing a fucking SICK DAY
if your super doesnt ok it.

ive been temping since 2001 in MICHIGAN (worst unemployment ever)
& am actually unemployed right now (my last assignment ended this
past thursday with pretty much 3 days real notice & thats a LOT compared
to some other placements)

IMO, in a work environment, the employer holds most of the power.
and boy does that suck.
*cries*

 

[Etoile]

Plus you have to kiss a LOT of ass when you're a temp. A LOT.

 

[FurryFury]

Off topic but I liked being a temp.

I could say no. I could say yes. I got paid well. I didn't do much.

Perfect.



Fury

 

[lil_slave_rose]

B.S. responses like this are a big reason that while I enjoy playing in the lifestyle I will never live it 24/7........... Disrespect my limits I cut nuts off in your sleep or sew your vaggie shut..........

Trying to declare that it works best when the Dominant is in total control of the sub and can do with the sub anything they wish is nonsense. People have free will no matter what. No one can ever totally relinquish their free will. EVER.

umm..well i gave Master the 'control' over me to do as He pleases. sure i can protest something, tell Him i don't like it, etc, but He gets to make that final decision. why? because i GAVE Him that control. if took back that control every single time He asked me to do something i didn't like..what the heck would be the point of living a D/s lifestyle?? there are MANY things in the past almost 4 years that He's told me to do, that i did NOT want to, and things that i honestly wasn't sure i COULD do, but you know what? if i couldn't do them, i sure as hell tried, and He was satisfied that i had tried.

i dont' understand the point of being in a D/s relationship if you are just going to use the 'well i hold the ultimate power in this relationship, and because you're asking me to do something i dont' want to, you no longer have that control over me right now' everytime their Dom tells them to do something unpleasant. Master pushes my Limits pretty much Daily, and this is while we're 2000 miles apart, i can only imagine the boundaries and limits He will push once we are living together. i didn't give up my free will, but i did completely give up control over my life, to Him.

there are plenty of things that He LOVES that i cannot stand. wearing a skirt is one of those things. HE gives me shit about this ALL of the time, and so far, He has not pushed me to wear one, because it makes me uncomfortable, but i do believe in the future, it will definantly be something that He says i WILL do. and He won't give a crap if i want to or not. that's a mild example but an example the same. He is the dominant, and while i hold the 'nuclear option' meaning, i can ask for release, that doesn't mean i'm going to use it every single time He crosses a limit of mine, or tells me to do something that pisses me off. i will voice my dislike for whatever it is, and give Him the reasons and then He will make the final decision. which will usually be 'so what, do it anyway'

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Wishy washy is how I feel it is to be someone who continually changes their mind...and most people think the same unless they are those people who are contiunually changing their minds and basically considered highly unreliable for any word they give on anything. It is not a judgement, it is a fact....if you say you will do something for someone, then don't follow through or call to say you changed your mind, then call back and say, actually I will do it, and then call back and say you don't want to, and then call back and say it really is OK..you get the picture, just like giving consent and then retracting it and then giving it again, retracting again..it sort of makes it hard to know when you can be believed, when you can be relied on. I can't be like that or with someone who is.

Catalina

i understand exactly what you're saying. and i agree for the most part. you know mine and Master's realtionship isn't EXACTLY the same as you and F's BUT we do see things alot alike. i do have the 'nuclear option' (as Master puts it) to 'take back' the control i've given Him, however IF i were to do that, that would be the end of our relationship, period. no going back. so yea, that doesn't make me wishy washy right? LOL just means if that's the choice i'm going to make, then i better be damn sure i want it over for good and that i can't call Him two days later and say 'ya know, i messed up, you can have that control back' and then break it off again when things get tough. good god if i did that everytime the times got tough, or He told me to do something i didn't really want to do, it's hard telling where i'd be right now...i can pretty much guarantee it wouldn't be with Him

not sure what the point of my long winded post was, except to say that i understand where you're coming from. though i do have the option to 'get out' if i want.....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

BTW, if by choosing to risk your safety as in terms of a M/s relationship with no out clause, and to obey even if you would prefer not to means one is deficient in brain cells or suffering abuse mentality etc., what about those who choose to race motorcycles and cars, skydive, surf, join the armed forces...are they too suffering abuse mentality and obviously lacking in ethics, morals, and brains because they know they are taking risks but continue to do so, and in terms of armed forces, agree ahead of time that they will do whatever they are told, even stand on the frontline in the face of bombs, oncoming gunfire, attack etc?

Catalina

*smiles* great analogies cat though i would never be able to live my life the way you do with no 'out clause' i do admire you for the way you do it. i've seen you have to defend the way you live the lifestyle so many times and i was one of them once that you had to defend it for, but now that i 'get it' when i see your posts i just smile. your lifestyle is by far not for everyone, me included, but i love your posts, and i don't take them as you saying your way is the only way, or the 'best' way, it's just the best way, the only way for you, that makes sense to me....just as everyone else says their way is the 'best' way for them......why is that hard to understand??

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Apples and Oranges. The other people you mention don't give up their free will. A person in the military sign a contract giving themselves for a period of time to the military but even in that they have free will. If they cannot follow an order because of their morals or ethics then they don't obey the order and accept the consequences. What you and OSG are declaring is that you are property and property has no say in it's fate. You are pawning off your free will allowing yourselves to be "blame free". That has to be the biggest cop out I have ever heard. In the lifestyle you are describing you are free of any responsibility for your actions. The finger of any blame or responsibility goes to the Dom. How are you going to explain to the police when you're driving to the store and back and speeding because Master told you to do the errand as fast as possible? Are you going to say you're not responsible for your actions because you've given your free will to someone else? Are you going to tell the cop he can't give you a ticket because you were following your Master's orders?

I think what bugs me the most in all of this is the fact that it seems that you are advocating that you aren't responsible for any actions seeing as you have given up your free will. That in "giving yourself" to your Master you have cleared yourself of any and all responsibility for your actions.

i don't see where cat has ever said she gave up her 'free will' or that she has relieved herself of ANY responsibility because she gave herself full to her Master...if i'm wrong, then please by all means, show me the post where she said that. her way of living the lifestyle is not for everyone, i'll agree there, but it's also not BS as you've put it in another post. if you don't get it, you don't get it, but why are you attacking her for the way she lives her life?? sheesh.....just because you feel you can 'take back' that control anytime you want to, doesn't mean everyone wants to live that way.

i won't take back the control anytime things get hard. i'll do whatever it takes to make my Master happy, even if it means something i'm not completely comfortable with. unlike cat however, i do have the 'out clause' if i am truly unhappy with the way things are going, but it would take ALOT for me to use it, not just a task He's told me to do that i just dont' want to, or dont' think that i can. i'll give it my best shot, and that's good enough most of the time. if i dont' succeed and it's something HE really wants me to succeed at, then He'll make me try again another time, sometimes one right after the other, until i get it right. that is the dynamic of our relationship, and using the 'out clause' is a cop out IMO, for the way He and i CHOOSE to live this lifestyle

that is not giving up my 'free will' because i CHOOSE to live this way, that's my free will at work. cat CHOOSES to live the way she lives. who are you to tell her she's being abused or that she's not living right??

 

[Etoile]

Oh goody, this is turning into another "can the sub end the relationship" thread.

I'm tired of explaining to each new non-believer what my relationship is all about. No, I do not have the option to end the relationship. Period. Yes, I can "vote with my feet" and disappear, anybody who is not physically restrained can do that. But is it going to happen? No, it is not, because I have given up the choice to do that. Period.

That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

 

[Netzach]

Oh goody, this is turning into another "can the sub end the relationship" thread.

I'm tired of explaining to each new non-believer what my relationship is all about. No, I do not have the option to end the relationship. Period. Yes, I can "vote with my feet" and disappear, anybody who is not physically restrained can do that. But is it going to happen? No, it is not, because I have given up the choice to do that. Period.

That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

You know, I'm the Dominant in a fundamentally more or less egalitartian marriage with a bottom who has submissive tendencies but isn't someone with a "property" mindset at all.

I think both of us feel that the option to just end it and walk really isn't on the table. I mean in theory of course it is, but it doesn't *feel* like an option.

Why is this kind of thinking suddenly insane when you introduce D/s?

 

[Netzach]

How are you going to explain to the police when you're driving to the store and back and speeding because Master told you to do the errand as fast as possible? Are you going to say you're not responsible for your actions because you've given your free will to someone else? Are you going to tell the cop he can't give you a ticket because you were following your Master's orders?

Well we have to assume

1. That the D would pick someone stupid enough to ignore the existence of speed limit and traffic laws and be SO literal they don't know how to do something without being told "by the way, don't get a ticket, but go quick and direct, you know..." No thanks.

2. or that the D is so arrogant and dumb that he/she would insist on the impractical and illegal for his/her wheaties and ground coffee and the s who isn't an idiot would be with him/her.

I don't know about everyone else's world, but when I say to Harvey "get me a starbucks as quick as you can" I don't have to explain how to do it. Although, he'd probably get off if I broke it down a lot as though he *were* stupid because that thrills him, but inverted sicko humiliation things are beside the point.

 

[Netzach]

Your last statement just made me cringe. "I'd probably still override these objections."

There would be no way to keep eventual shit from getting on him. By your very choice to override his fears you've raped him. Plain and simple. He said no and you did it anyway. There's NO TRUST in this. Plain and simple. You've proven his opinion means shit and that he is simply a toy to you. Good way to lose playmates real quick. A relationship especially a D/S one has to have trust. If the sub can't trust the Dom/Domme to respect their limits then there will never be the level of trust to make it work.

Well, then that's obviously not how you want to live your life.

If I caved in to any objection other than those *I* thought were dire and legitimate, there is no way I would be with this person for well over 3 years now. Clearly I'm going through people like toilet paper.

I don't understand how you can possibly compare pushing someone who has agreed that he wants to be pushed to do things he may not want to do, because he's happy and better off knowing that his will is being overridden by a chosen and specific person to rape.

If choosing who's going to "rape" you and asking them to do it still qualifies, I'm not up on the law.

I'm not sure what your mileage is with crimes against your person, but it's really an inappropriate comparison.

As for the lack of trust, you are completely in the dark. This is someone who trusts me enough to allow and seek this kind of interaction. I do respect his limits - his limits are how he handles his family and work obligations, not what I choose to do with things he's written that he may feel are "personal." Just because it's YOUR limit doesn't mean I'm not mindful of what my slave is and isn't capable of.

 

[BiBunny]

Oh goody, this is turning into another "can the sub end the relationship" thread.

I'm tired of explaining to each new non-believer what my relationship is all about. No, I do not have the option to end the relationship. Period. Yes, I can "vote with my feet" and disappear, anybody who is not physically restrained can do that. But is it going to happen? No, it is not, because I have given up the choice to do that. Period.

That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Charlie The Unicorn

Shun the non-believer. Ssssssshhhhhhhuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn.

 

[softnsassy]

Ironically, both parties in a D/S relationship have equal power. Sub has the "nuclear option" to leave if she doesn't like what the Dom is doing or provide what she needs, and Dom has the same "nuclear option" to leave if the sub doesn't submit to the extent the Dom needs.

 

[the captians wench]

Well, then that's obviously not how you want to live your life.

If I caved in to any objection other than those *I* thought were dire and legitimate, there is no way I would be with this person for well over 3 years now. Clearly I'm going through people like toilet paper.

I don't understand how you can possibly compare pushing someone who has agreed that he wants to be pushed to do things he may not want to do, because he's happy and better off knowing that his will is being overridden by a chosen and specific person to rape.

If choosing who's going to "rape" you and asking them to do it still qualifies, I'm not up on the law.

I'm not sure what your mileage is with crimes against your person, but it's really an inappropriate comparison.

As for the lack of trust, you are completely in the dark. This is someone who trusts me enough to allow and seek this kind of interaction. I do respect his limits - his limits are how he handles his family and work obligations, not what I choose to do with things he's written that he may feel are "personal." Just because it's YOUR limit doesn't mean I'm not mindful of what my slave is and isn't capable of.

I really think this is very well said. and I want to add more but my brain just isn't quite with it yet.

 

[Taja_Deveraux]

I know for an absolute fact that I can't walk away. I am very much a slave to His will. He could walk away. I have no doubts about that. In our dynamic, I checked my rights and autonomy at the door, including my right to end the relationship.

Legally I can end it, but mentally, emotionally, I can't. And that trumps any legal right granted to me.

Evil_Geoff said it best:

Who really has the power?

The person who has the strength of will to end the relationship.

 

[frappy]

Holy Moses, I remembered my password!

Taja_Deveraux is me.

 

[Velvet Bubbles]

I just wanted to thank you all for this interesting thread. I'm curious about a dom/sub relationship and it's helpful to see it from varying viewpoints.

 

[pink]

I just wanted to thank you all for this interesting thread. I'm curious about a dom/sub relationship and it's helpful to see it from varying viewpoints.

We can all learn from different points of view.

 

[xseraphimx]

I recall

reading something I thought and found funny at the time.

" The sub has the last word in any situation - Yes Master/Sir"

IMO Geoff is right, the power lays with whoever has the strength to leave, or the last word.

 

[misspihla]

In the end both have the power to walk to away. So lets call it a draw.

(No matter what slave contract or agreement you do, it probably wont hold in court when compared to basic human rights. And if court doesnt respect human rights we cant really talk about bdsm anymore.)

 

[ownedsubgal]

In the end both have the power to walk to away. So lets call it a draw.

(No matter what slave contract or agreement you do, it probably wont hold in court when compared to basic human rights. And if court doesnt respect human rights we cant really talk about bdsm anymore.)

legal "power" does not necessarily equate to actual power. many slaves do not have the power to walk away, despite what a law says they may do.

 

[misspihla]

legal "power" does not necessarily equate to actual power. many slaves do not have the power to walk away, despite what a law says they may do.

And what does that mean? Are they prisoners, physically restricted? Or are they so brainwashed they cannot make real decisions anymore? In both cases I wouldnt maybe call it bdsm anymore...

If you are referring to 'mental weakness' or 'lack of spine' to do such decision I think that is personal trait outside Dom/sub thing.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And what does that mean? Are they prisoners, physically restricted? Or are they so brainwashed they cannot make real decisions anymore? In both cases I wouldnt maybe call it bdsm anymore...

If you are referring to 'mental weakness' or 'lack of spine' to do such decision I think that is personal trait outside Dom/sub thing.

What you don't understand is that some people make the choice to give up that power. That does not make them any of the things you mentioned, and usually far from weak or lacking spine. Maybe you should try it for a month or so and see just how 'weak' it is to actually make that commitment and then stick to it. IMHO, playing games is so much easier, just keep a hand free to turn the switch on and off when it suits you.

Catalina