Who thinks chatting sexually on Lit is cheating

[subish2009]

A few things:
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If you're unhappy in your marriage, you probably should leave. Whether it's because of sex or any other issue. And if you say "it's not that simple", it's because you've made it that difficult. Your happiness is key to your health (physical and mental) and believe me, if you say you're doing it for your kids - they know you're miserable.

You made vows to each other when you got married, breaking those vows is breaking a promise. Who likes a promise-breaker?

As others have said, if you have to ask if something like this is ok, it's not. that doubt, the reason you asked in the first place, is your conscience screaming "no".

All of the above is why communication is so important to a good marriage. And there's no time like now to start working on it.


Please note that I've used "you" in a general, not specific sense.

Yes, but "wrong" is to be defined by each individual. This is not a black and white issue. Only the individuals can decide what is and is not okay, what is and is not cheating, what is and is not wrong.

Having a desire to have cybersex behind your spouse's back does not necessarily equate to being miserable in one's marriage. Most marriages are dependent upon compromise. Individuals expect and are willing to put up with varying amounts of compromise while still remaining relatively happy and satisfied in their marriages. There are those who believe one should leave one's marriage, if one does not find oneself in marital bliss 24/7. And there are others who believe you never leave, no matter what. Most people fall in between, but it's a continuum, like most things in life. Who is anyone to say what is right for another?

How do you know what vows or promises, exactly, the OP made?

I do agree that, for the OP specifically, she must be suffering some guilt if she's looking for the approval of strangers. And if she's suffering guilt, it's because some part of her thinks she has cheated. I do agree that recommending communication is the best advice for her specific situation. Either that, or just knock it off if she thinks she can avoid any further indiscretions and move on.

I do NOT agree in all the heavy-handed, unilateral declarations of right and wrong going on in this thread. Each marriage is vastly different from the next and NONE of this is simple. It takes two individuals to make a marriage with two different sets of values, morals, expectations, wants, needs, etc. and to expect it to be simple to make those two sets meet on every issue over a lifetime together is ridiculously naive.

 

[satindesire]

Yes, but "wrong" is to be defined by each individual. This is not a black and white issue. Only the individuals can decide what is and is not okay, what is and is not cheating, what is and is not wrong.

Having a desire to have cybersex behind your spouse's back does not necessarily equate to being miserable in one's marriage. Most marriages are dependent upon compromise. Individuals expect and are willing to put up with varying amounts of compromise while still remaining relatively happy and satisfied in their marriages. There are those who believe one should leave one's marriage, if one does not find oneself in marital bliss 24/7. And there are others who believe you never leave, no matter what. Most people fall in between, but it's a continuum, like most things in life. Who is anyone to say what is right for another?

How do you know what vows or promises, exactly, the OP made?

I do agree that, for the OP specifically, she must be suffering some guilt if she's looking for the approval of strangers. And if she's suffering guilt, it's because some part of her thinks she has cheated. I do agree that recommending communication is the best advice for her specific situation. Either that, or just knock it off if she thinks she can avoid any further indiscretions and move on.

I do NOT agree in all the heavy-handed, unilateral declarations of right and wrong going on in this thread. Each marriage is vastly different from the next and NONE of this is simple. It takes two individuals to make a marriage with two different sets of values, morals, expectations, wants, needs, etc. and to expect it to be simple to make those two sets meet on every issue over a lifetime together is ridiculously naive.

Yes, it does take two people in that specific relationship to define right and wrong. But when something needs to be hidden, then OBVIOUSLY at least ONE person in that relationship thinks it's wrong.

That is reason enough for me to consider it wrong, and ultimately the product of an unhealthy relationship lacking in communication.

 

[subish2009]

Yes, it does take two people in that specific relationship to define right and wrong. But when something needs to be hidden, then OBVIOUSLY at least ONE person in that relationship thinks it's wrong.

That is reason enough for me to consider it wrong, and ultimately the product of an unhealthy relationship lacking in communication.

Okay, I see your point. I guess I'm not arguing that increased communication is not a good idea in that case. It's the people saying that if you're doing this, you are clearly miserable in your marriage and should divorce with whom I'm quibbling.

I mean, gosh, even the healthiest, smoothest of marriages can often benefit from increased communication. While I don't necessarily think 'fessing up is always the answer, communication about the root problems is probably always a good idea to try.

 

[satindesire]

Okay, I see your point. I guess I'm not arguing that increased communication is not a good idea in that case. It's the people saying that if you're doing this, you are clearly miserable in your marriage and should divorce with whom I'm quibbling.

I mean, gosh, even the healthiest, smoothest of marriages can often benefit from increased communication. While I don't necessarily think 'fessing up is always the answer, communication about the root problems is probably always a good idea to try.

No, fessing up isn't always the best idea. Sometimes, cheating or...whatever other betrayal of partnership can be the end of that relationship, and it's better to keep it to yourself if you're genuinely sorry and won't do it again.

However, my point is this. Men often complain that their wives don't give them enough or enough of the kind of sex they enjoy. My opinion is this, if the man gives them a logical reason to comply with occasionally having sex with them for the man's benefit, then most sane emotionally healthy women will do it. But, men often don't know HOW to talk to their female partners about sex in a way a woman will understand.

My way of explaining sex to women is this:

Imagine you're in the kitchen. You're not hungry, but you hear your husband/boyfriend say "Honey, I'm hungry. Can you make me something to eat?"

Are you going to say "NO! I'm not hungry yet, so you'll just have to starve until -I'M- ready to eat."

Or, are you going to think, "Well, he's hungry, and I'm not. But it's not a big deal, it'll make him feel better and it would be nice to do something nice for him."

There is no reason to deny your partner sex even if you don't want it. If you're not sick, or exhausted, and he's been good to you, then just have sex with him. It's not like it's HARD or it'll take a lot of time out of your day. You'll have a happier partner who will be more prone to being affectionate and romantic with you, in the end...it's a win-win situation.

If more women just ponied up the poontang, less men would resort to cheating, I'll bet.

 

[Netzach]

Yes, but "wrong" is to be defined by each individual. This is not a black and white issue. Only the individuals can decide what is and is not okay, what is and is not cheating, what is and is not wrong.

Having a desire to have cybersex behind your spouse's back does not necessarily equate to being miserable in one's marriage. Most marriages are dependent upon compromise. Individuals expect and are willing to put up with varying amounts of compromise while still remaining relatively happy and satisfied in their marriages. There are those who believe one should leave one's marriage, if one does not find oneself in marital bliss 24/7. And there are others who believe you never leave, no matter what. Most people fall in between, but it's a continuum, like most things in life. Who is anyone to say what is right for another?

How do you know what vows or promises, exactly, the OP made?

I do agree that, for the OP specifically, she must be suffering some guilt if she's looking for the approval of strangers. And if she's suffering guilt, it's because some part of her thinks she has cheated. I do agree that recommending communication is the best advice for her specific situation. Either that, or just knock it off if she thinks she can avoid any further indiscretions and move on.

I do NOT agree in all the heavy-handed, unilateral declarations of right and wrong going on in this thread. Each marriage is vastly different from the next and NONE of this is simple. It takes two individuals to make a marriage with two different sets of values, morals, expectations, wants, needs, etc. and to expect it to be simple to make those two sets meet on every issue over a lifetime together is ridiculously naive.

I think the obsession with cheating this culture has is mostly misplaced. By the time someone is hiding something something is seriously fucked.

 

[Netzach]

No, fessing up isn't always the best idea. Sometimes, cheating or...whatever other betrayal of partnership can be the end of that relationship, and it's better to keep it to yourself if you're genuinely sorry and won't do it again.

However, my point is this. Men often complain that their wives don't give them enough or enough of the kind of sex they enjoy. My opinion is this, if the man gives them a logical reason to comply with occasionally having sex with them for the man's benefit, then most sane emotionally healthy women will do it. But, men often don't know HOW to talk to their female partners about sex in a way a woman will understand.

My way of explaining sex to women is this:

Imagine you're in the kitchen. You're not hungry, but you hear your husband/boyfriend say "Honey, I'm hungry. Can you make me something to eat?"

Are you going to say "NO! I'm not hungry yet, so you'll just have to starve until -I'M- ready to eat."

Or, are you going to think, "Well, he's hungry, and I'm not. But it's not a big deal, it'll make him feel better and it would be nice to do something nice for him."

There is no reason to deny your partner sex even if you don't want it. If you're not sick, or exhausted, and he's been good to you, then just have sex with him. It's not like it's HARD or it'll take a lot of time out of your day. You'll have a happier partner who will be more prone to being affectionate and romantic with you, in the end...it's a win-win situation.

If more women just ponied up the poontang, less men would resort to cheating, I'll bet.

That's assuming it's lack of sex. It could be the lack of communication, the lack of the kind of sex he likes, the lack of variety and openness, or just *I want other pussy* or other things he's pretty much responsible for. There are plenty of women who put out only to find there's a whole other world they never knew about till they checked the phone bill one day.

I'd say if you look at sex as a commodity or a sandwich that you dutifully make for your partner whether you want to or not, you are inviting a mentality that contains the potential for boredom. I look at sex personally, in marriage, more as "getting away together" - you need schedules to match up for it to work, everyone has to row.

 

[infinity706]

No, fessing up isn't always the best idea. Sometimes, cheating or...whatever other betrayal of partnership can be the end of that relationship, and it's better to keep it to yourself if you're genuinely sorry and won't do it again.

However, my point is this. Men often complain that their wives don't give them enough or enough of the kind of sex they enjoy. My opinion is this, if the man gives them a logical reason to comply with occasionally having sex with them for the man's benefit, then most sane emotionally healthy women will do it. But, men often don't know HOW to talk to their female partners about sex in a way a woman will understand.

My way of explaining sex to women is this:

Imagine you're in the kitchen. You're not hungry, but you hear your husband/boyfriend say "Honey, I'm hungry. Can you make me something to eat?"

Are you going to say "NO! I'm not hungry yet, so you'll just have to starve until -I'M- ready to eat."

Or, are you going to think, "Well, he's hungry, and I'm not. But it's not a big deal, it'll make him feel better and it would be nice to do something nice for him."

There is no reason to deny your partner sex even if you don't want it. If you're not sick, or exhausted, and he's been good to you, then just have sex with him. It's not like it's HARD or it'll take a lot of time out of your day. You'll have a happier partner who will be more prone to being affectionate and romantic with you, in the end...it's a win-win situation.

If more women just ponied up the poontang, less men would resort to cheating, I'll bet.

I definately agree about more women putting out when they might not feel like it. Of course, it goes the same way with guys. A lot of them just make their partner wait until they're in the mood, as well. It's seriously not just emotional reasons that women cheat for. I've met plenty of women that even sought me out for an affair due to my openness to just about everything and/or due to the general lack of sex they were getting. Fewer women would probably be cheating if some of those guys would put out, as well, despite what the media would tell you.

That's actually only about half the issue, though. The other half is that one or both partners are cheating and just leaving their partner out of the fun, entirely. I even know one woman that had a bunch of different, secret boyfriends, while she entirely cut her husband off over one affair she caught him in, a decade ago. She wanted me to be one of her boyfriends. I actually agreed to give her the affair she wanted, subject to my conditions plus one. I expected her to put out for her husband. The last one was the only one that caused problems. I've actually seen things like that a few other times with women, as well. I've never seen a guy cut one of his partners off, though.

 

[infinity706]

That's assuming it's lack of sex. It could be the lack of communication, the lack of the kind of sex he likes, the lack of variety and openness, or just *I want other pussy* or other things he's pretty much responsible for. There are plenty of women who put out only to find there's a whole other world they never knew about till they checked the phone bill one day.

I'd say if you look at sex as a commodity or a sandwich that you dutifully make for your partner whether you want to or not, you are inviting a mentality that contains the potential for boredom. I look at sex personally, in marriage, more as "getting away together" - you need schedules to match up for it to work, everyone has to row.

I'm not sure how much I can agree that giving out sex whenever your partner wants is a recipe for boredom as long as it goes both ways. Even out of all my partners, I've never had an issue with it. (yes, there are occasions that I'm not really ready for sex )

 

[TypicalDeviant]

Yes, but "wrong" is to be defined by each individual. This is not a black and white issue. Only the individuals can decide what is and is not okay, what is and is not cheating, what is and is not wrong.

Having a desire to have cybersex behind your spouse's back does not necessarily equate to being miserable in one's marriage. Most marriages are dependent upon compromise. Individuals expect and are willing to put up with varying amounts of compromise while still remaining relatively happy and satisfied in their marriages. There are those who believe one should leave one's marriage, if one does not find oneself in marital bliss 24/7. And there are others who believe you never leave, no matter what. Most people fall in between, but it's a continuum, like most things in life. Who is anyone to say what is right for another?

How do you know what vows or promises, exactly, the OP made?

I do agree that, for the OP specifically, she must be suffering some guilt if she's looking for the approval of strangers. And if she's suffering guilt, it's because some part of her thinks she has cheated. I do agree that recommending communication is the best advice for her specific situation. Either that, or just knock it off if she thinks she can avoid any further indiscretions and move on.

I do NOT agree in all the heavy-handed, unilateral declarations of right and wrong going on in this thread. Each marriage is vastly different from the next and NONE of this is simple. It takes two individuals to make a marriage with two different sets of values, morals, expectations, wants, needs, etc. and to expect it to be simple to make those two sets meet on every issue over a lifetime together is ridiculously naive.

I agree that in the context of a relationship, right and wrong are defined together, but we don't know the OP and her husband, so we have to use our own gauge.

I also agree that couples should probably communicate more. Even if they communicate well now. I personally think that marriage is forever and you should do everything in your power to maintain the marriage. However, there comes a time when for one reason or another, the marriage is simply done. If that's the case, you should probably seriously consider leaving or, at the very least, being legally separated.

On vows, I think it's a safe bet that most married couples (in Western nations, at least) make vows to each other to "love, honor, respect, be faithful" in some form or another. I don't need to know their exact vows to know that if I bet $5 that they made a vow of faithfulness to each other, I'd probably make it back.

As for heavy-handed decisions of right and wrong, well, like I said previously, we can only go off of our experiences and the information given. I doubt the OP wants a "maybe". Had she asked a rhetorical question, there would probably be more "gray" answers. But she asked a very real question, and I can't, in good conscience, respond to that rhetorically or theoretically.

Lastly, if you go into a marriage with "two different sets of values, morals, expectations, wants, needs, etc" and you haven't hashed it out and found a middle ground ahead of time, you can probably expect a lifetime's worth of work on those issues.

 

[satindesire]

I'd say if you look at sex as a commodity or a sandwich that you dutifully make for your partner whether you want to or not, you are inviting a mentality that contains the potential for boredom. I look at sex personally, in marriage, more as "getting away together" - you need schedules to match up for it to work, everyone has to row.

That's assuming, however, that people find taking care of their partners potentially boring.

I don't get bored when I clean the house, or take care of our daughter, or make him lunch. Everything that I do for him, I do out of love.

When you're doing it just to keep him from bitching, that's completely different. One MUST take a healthy approach to "doing for" the partner in order to keep resentment from forming. Once resentment drives a wedge between positive emotions and you, it's incredibly difficult to repair.

But honestly, women too often don't know just how seriously important sex is to their male partners. I akin sex to men as affection and romance to women. In a majority of relationships, affection, romance, and sex is VITAL LIFEBLOOD to the health and longevity of the partnership. When even one of those things 'dries up', the relationship withers, like a plant without water.

I understand that in some rare cases, one or both partners could care less if the person is doing something out of love, duty, or because they have to because they have no choice, but most relationships absolutely have to have a some selflessness on both partner's parts in order for it to work in the long term. And often, women expect things from their mates that they don't see to do themselves, chiefly, sex.

I personally think of sex like a duty, like my JOB, but it's not a bad job and certainly not one I have reason to complain about. But as his wife, my JOB is to satisfy him, and his job as my husband is to satisfy me. This has nothing to do with our BDSM lifestyle, and everything to do with our religious views, to be honest.

Lastly, if you go into a marriage with "two different sets of values, morals, expectations, wants, needs, etc" and you haven't hashed it out and found a middle ground ahead of time, you can probably expect a lifetime's worth of work on those issues.

In my opinion, two people so vastly different should not marry. They're just asking for unhappiness and eventual divorce.

 

[Yesspleasse]

Having a desire to have cybersex behind your spouse's back does not necessarily equate to being miserable in one's marriage.......... Who is anyone to say what is right for another

Hear hear.

It's not that I think secret sex chat is necessarily a good thing. It isn't. I'm only saying that it isn't necessarily a bad thing either.

My marriage has improved, for example.

By the time someone is hiding something something is seriously fucked.

Who really thinks that a person must confess to their partner that they masturbated while thinking of sex with a work colleague, for example? No, it's not the same, but how is it markedly different, if the people one chats with are anonymous and the interactions are transient?

What I mean is, masturbating while thinking of a porn actress, or even a work colleague is NOT necessarily a sign that the marriage has serious problems, and nor is anonymous sex chat. :]

 

[DroppedIn]

I feel lucky to have the woman I do. A few years ago I got it into my head that online flirtation wasn't a major issue and happily partook of it without consulting her first and kept my activities to myself. When she did find out she was hurt, I think not from what I was doing but more from the fact that I didn't tell her. It was the deception on my part that did the damage.

We've moved on from there and our relationship is solid and she knows I drop in here every now and again. Since that episode we've focused very strongly on communication. It's too damned easy to get stuck in a rut of - kids (if they apply) - work - she does her thing - he does his thing and bam before ya know it you're not quite sure who's in the bed with you anymore.

 

[Yesspleasse]

I feel lucky to have the woman I do. A few years ago I got it into my head that online flirtation wasn't a major issue and happily partook of it without consulting her first and kept my activities to myself. When she did find out she was hurt, I think not from what I was doing but more from the fact that I didn't tell her. It was the deception on my part that did the damage.

We've moved on from there and our relationship is solid and she knows I drop in here every now and again. Since that episode we've focused very strongly on communication. It's too damned easy to get stuck in a rut of - kids (if they apply) - work - she does her thing - he does his thing and bam before ya know it you're not quite sure who's in the bed with you anymore.

That's great to hear. And I totally agree about the rut pitfall.

I have a feeling that my wife would ultimately react the same way, though she'd be hurt at first.

I'd be hurt too, in the reverse scenario, but ultimately I'd have to admit I couldn't really blame her.

 

[RuReal]

What I think a lot of people are saying here is there is a failure in communication and that communication is very important.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

To step away from the focus on cheating for a second ...

I don't know this person's particular situation. Sometimes people are in marriages that work in a lot of ways but just aren't completely fulfilling sexually and they do what they have to do. Or so I've heard from Dan Savage anyway (shout out to DGE). In real life, I don't actually know anyone who is perfectly happy except for a teeny tiny sex issue. But anyway.

If it's Tuesday, ITW, it must be time for a new podcast!

 

[Netzach]

Who really thinks that a person must confess to their partner that they masturbated while thinking of sex with a work colleague, for example? No, it's not the same, but how is it markedly different, if the people one chats with are anonymous and the interactions are transient?

What I mean is, masturbating while thinking of a porn actress, or even a work colleague is NOT necessarily a sign that the marriage has serious problems, and nor is anonymous sex chat. :]

I can't agree more. I'm talking about the myth of the person led astray by the third party.

I also question the motives of a lot of people who confess to indiscretions - just fix your relationship, end it, or do what you need to do and live with the burden it can entail. Don't drag them along for forgiveness, ick.

 

[Netzach]

That's assuming, however, that people find taking care of their partners potentially boring.

I don't get bored when I clean the house, or take care of our daughter, or make him lunch. Everything that I do for him, I do out of love.

When you're doing it just to keep him from bitching, that's completely different. One MUST take a healthy approach to "doing for" the partner in order to keep resentment from forming. Once resentment drives a wedge between positive emotions and you, it's incredibly difficult to repair.

But honestly, women too often don't know just how seriously important sex is to their male partners. I akin sex to men as affection and romance to women. In a majority of relationships, affection, romance, and sex is VITAL LIFEBLOOD to the health and longevity of the partnership. When even one of those things 'dries up', the relationship withers, like a plant without water.

I understand that in some rare cases, one or both partners could care less if the person is doing something out of love, duty, or because they have to because they have no choice, but most relationships absolutely have to have a some selflessness on both partner's parts in order for it to work in the long term. And often, women expect things from their mates that they don't see to do themselves, chiefly, sex.

I personally think of sex like a duty, like my JOB, but it's not a bad job and certainly not one I have reason to complain about. But as his wife, my JOB is to satisfy him, and his job as my husband is to satisfy me. This has nothing to do with our BDSM lifestyle, and everything to do with our religious views, to be honest.



In my opinion, two people so vastly different should not marry. They're just asking for unhappiness and eventual divorce.

This is just so far from my worldview it breaks down. If I want romance I trade in sex chips? I don't want to trade sex for romantic attention, I want *sex* chips.

 

[Wess69]

hi

I dont think chatting about sex and what you would do if ... is cheating at all!!

 

[satindesire]

I dont think chatting about sex and what you would do if ... is cheating at all!! You ever wanna chat hit me up we can talk as dirty as you like and you wont be cheating on any one ok??

Oh My Gawd.

"I promise baby, you won't be cheating if you do it with ME."

This is just so far from my worldview it breaks down. If I want romance I trade in sex chips? I don't want to trade sex for romantic attention, I want *sex* chips.

Yes, it's far from YOUR worldview. You're not exactly the typical wife, you know.

 

[FloggingMolly]

I dont think chatting about sex and what you would do if ... is cheating at all!! You ever wanna chat hit me up we can talk as dirty as you like and you wont be cheating on any one ok??

I wondered how long it'd be...

 

[Yesspleasse]

I also question the motives of a lot of people who confess to indiscretions - just fix your relationship, end it, or do what you need to do and live with the burden it can entail. Don't drag them along for forgiveness, ick.

Lol. Indeed.

 

[juicypeachxx]

I say no way its not cheating until you meet.
But many DO consider it cheating and i heard in court it is considered cheating too, FYI

 

[DroppedIn]

I say no way its not cheating until you meet.
But many DO consider it cheating and i heard in court it is considered cheating too, FYI

Yes, well if you want to get technical about it, it could be considerd as out of bounds behaviour, as it could be seen as establishing bonds of emotional attachment beyond the bounds of marriage. That's where consent comes in as far as I'm concerned.

 

[wnt2lick61]

Not for us to say!!!!!

............

 

[jdc38]

Here's a super super easy equation to the cheating question:

Can I do it in front of my partner?

If yes, then it's not cheating.

If no, then it's cheating.

Wow, that's pretty expansive in the definition of cheating. So if I am turned on doing my ass with a dildo (strictly an example for debate purposes!) but not comfortable with doing it front of my wife I cheated? I don't think so.

I personally don't think chatting is cheating in the common defintion we all think of - actual sexual act with another person outside of the relationship.

It certainly is not adultry in the legal sense (not that I am a lawyer or researched all 50 states). And clearly just what the law says is not the only important thing.

But as a few have said chatting here and there is an outlet for a lot of people. Sure, sometimes chatting is a sign the relationship is in trouble but not always. And what if the chatting is just sharing sexual ideas and experiences with someone? Really, that's cheating?

So what about all of us that have exchanged comments on these boards in back and forth banter. Okay, not directly talking with one person but a form of public chat nonetheless. Cheating? Better check your thread history.

Just some opinions.