Why are many Literotica poems so vague?

[Du Lac]

Re: cute~

Okay let me see if I have this correct
you {quoted)I've read poems on Lit and thought to myself 'what was that all about?' But I consider those some of the best poems I've read, because they made me think, feel, and interpret on my own.

and yet I didn't understand Mutt's
poem just now re read it after knowing it's
for someone else and still don't see the coralation
it just doesnt grip me and lead me to visuals
of clarity, sack doesn't see the mistletoe
in my poem, and lauren doesn't see Mutt's poem as
vague~and the fantasy poem...

we all live breath eat sleep
and yet are all different in views ...
ways ...likes and dislikes. I found it interesting
a learning poem not a poem as sack would say
'Lesser' poet by any means ... like miss O said
the ones we can't figure out are the great ones.
mine mistletoe sparked sack's confussion
which inturn produced some great topics
for criticism and structuring poems in this thread
and it's rare for me to write a vague poem.
testing the waters and tail spun a reader? hehehehe
each poem moved someone differently here
they did their job. hehehe

YAAAAY Art... lol.. I am sitting right next to you babe.. eating from that box of chocolates..
well said.. many do not get my writing.. and some do... I think it is just where we all are.. that energy level or some call it vibe.. Me it is how open our hearts, minds and souls are. Walls of limitations ..... create vague feelings. When we understand no one is greater nor lessor.. no thing is great nor lessor.. all is connected and we open to this... we actually see so much more in what used to be VAGUE!
things that make you go hmmmmm!
creak!
HA
Du Lac

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: well, then....

If you reject "higher" and "lower", then all poets have exactly the same level of ability. You can't have it both ways. Sure, there are the "Special Olympics", there are also programs for the talented and gifted. No one is making a judgement on whether various levels of intellect are "better" or "worse", but just that they exist. Lesser poets exist.....that's all. Don't put value judgements in where there are none.


Sack

you don't believe all poets are equal?
as a poet yourself is there no allowance
for the learning state? with out going
through the disecting and name tagged
'lesser', you said it not me sack, I didn't put
judgement on you for any reason, I too can
read and spot a new poet or beginner <grin>
and I encourage them to conitnue with a slap
on the back and a comment, not disect there
Art, (pardon the pun)...<grin>
can't change the spots on a leopard sack
so I don't suspect you'll change wording
on my accord. <grin> but thanks...

 

[sack]

I can't resist this Orwell quote....

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"



Sack

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: Re: cute~

YAAAAY Art... lol.. I am sitting right next to you babe.. eating from that box of chocolates..
well said.. many do not get my writing.. and some do... I think it is just where we all are.. that energy level or some call it vibe.. Me it is how open our hearts, minds and souls are. Walls of limitations ..... create vague feelings. When we understand no one is greater nor lessor.. no thing is great nor lessor.. all is connected and we open to this... we actually see so much more in what used to be VAGUE!
things that make you go hmmmmm!
creak!
HA
Du Lac

hey Du~
very well put,
life is poetic
in order to live in total clarity we must abandon
the higher and lower which society has instilled
in our system, it's fundamental living of coin and
exchange but from there every culture has lures
of misdirection. the sheep follow the flock
and the wolf becomes cunning neither is
lesser but balanced in life's circle and we
could all write a poem about sheeps and wolves
and see the different Art arrive...(~_*)

 

[WickedEve]

lesser poet?

Poets write on different levels. There is no shame in that. We are all at various stages of learning and honing our craft. And then there is talent. Some poets simply aren't as talented as others. Though, they may end up doing more with what talent they do have.
Instead of lesser, let's just say we're all different--and hug.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: I can't resist this Orwell quote....

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"



Sack

sheep want to be wolves
and wolves want to be the mountain lion
tigers fear the dragon
man fears many
yet we are all balanced in understanding
at least enough to survive some even dabble
in poetry...hehehehey

or is that to vague?

 

[The Mutt]

"If everybody likes it, it isn't art. It's potato chips."
--John Huston

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: lesser poet?

Poets write on different levels. There is no shame in that. We are all at various stages of learning and honing our craft. And then there is talent. Some poets simply aren't as talented as others. Though, they may end up doing more with what talent they do have.
Instead of lesser, let's just say we're all different--and hug.

hey wicked...okay hug
hehehehe
hey I like what your saying...inspirational
like some are still forged in the fire, whille
others are being honed while the complete
sit on the walls in display....<grin>

 

[sack]

You will never abandon higher and lower..

unless you want to go to an uninhabited pacific island for the rest of your life. It starts in 1st grade....children are grouped, higher and lower, by their reading and math ability. The same holds true for art, music , and gym. Kids learn very fast the areas they are "stupid" in. Yet, heterogenous grouping is also a complete disaster. The brighter kids are bored and the more limited ones never catch up. There's a challenge for you MET...fix our flawed educational system!



Sack

 

[My Erotic Tale]

pass the chips

"If everybody likes it, it isn't art. It's potato chips."
--John Huston

that explains the salt
oh, I seen some chips!
ate 'em~
works of Art~

hehehey Mutt!

 

[jthserra]

Not to interrupt the philosophy but...

Variations of same conversation (vague vs. un-vague poetry) is being argued today in poetry journals and other venues all over. I mentioned Jorie Graham, her Dream of a Unified Field won a pulitizer prize, but I challenge anyone to read more than three lines of any poem in the book without scratching their head.


Regarding lesser poets... I have heard it said that even the greatest poets have really only written 4 or 5, maybe 6 truly great poems. Maybe we all are really lesser poets until we write a few truly great poems.

Of course some poets are still less lesser than others.


jim : )

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: You will never abandon higher and lower..

unless you want to go to an uninhabitated pacific island for the rest of your life. It starts in 1st grade....children are grouped, higher and lower, by their reading and math ability. The same holds true for art, music , and gym. Kids learn very fast the areas they are "stupid" in. Yet, hetereogeneous grouping is also a complete disaster. The brighter kids are bored and the more limited ones never catch up. There's a challenge for you MET...fix our flawed educational system!



Sack

honest sack
thery're working on that as we speak,
organizations that have the task of controlling
and teaching in various manners to see what works
and what doesn't and even the consept of schools
for advanced students that excell to help them deal
with their gift of early intellect and nuture it to
improve where so many in the past have turned
towards drugs and gangs and tossed their minds
in the soup of society, well my two cents on that
sorry it wasn't about vague...hehehehe

 

[sack]

Yes, Schools for the gifted exist....

At the same time Gifted and Talented programs are being cut from many Public School programs, due to budgets being slashed. We have a long way to go....but kids learn at a VERY EARLY age the concepts of better/worse, first/last (they all want to be 1st in line) and higher/lower.


Sack

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: Not to interrupt the philosophy but...

Variations of same conversation (vague vs. un-vague poetry) is being argued today in poetry journals and other venues all over. I mentioned Jorie Graham, her Dream of a Unified Field won a pulitizer prize, but I challenge anyone to read more than three lines of any poem in the book without scratching their head.


Regarding lesser poets... I have heard it said that even the greatest poets have really only written 4 or 5, maybe 6 truly great poems. Maybe we all are really lesser poets until we write a few truly great poems.

Of course some poets are still less lesser than others.


jim : )

I can show you head scratchers in your
submissions list jim....lmao~
and hear as well as a couple other forums
its a style a certain delivery, when writing one
of the vague poems it's an emotion or portrayl
of an event with glimmers from say past where
the memory is vague, but some are crystal clear
both poems good in their own way~

I also have the tail spin when saying every one
who writes a poem is a poet? yet all understand
the passion that can rage in our emotions but
everyone describes it differently, so who's the lesser?

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Not to interrupt the philosophy but...

Maybe we all are really lesser poets until we write a few truly great poems.

Of course some poets are still less lesser than others.

 

[Du Lac]

Re: You will never abandon higher and lower..

unless you want to go to an uninhabited pacific island for the rest of your life. It starts in 1st grade....children are grouped, higher and lower, by their reading and math ability. The same holds true for art, music , and gym. Kids learn very fast the areas they are "stupid" in. Yet, heterogenous grouping is also a complete disaster. The brighter kids are bored and the more limited ones never catch up. There's a challenge for you MET...fix our flawed educational system!



Sack

Sack...
are you greater than a tree? Are you greater than a bee?
You need the tree to produce air to breathe. You need the bee to pollenate the flowers that create the air that you need to live. Are you greater than the cow standing in the meadow? That gives you food to eat? Are you greater than the water that fills a lake? You need that water to drink to live. When you understand this.. you will understand that no one or anything is greater than the other. All interconnected. What you talk about above is breed from fear. Fear destroys what the true order of living is..... Fear develops such social conformity as you seek of ...
Fear kills the trees.. the bee... the cow.. and the water... finally us. We all have a purpose here... while I am gifted in some areas... I lack in others... as is true in all people and things.. this brings about balance... ying and yang. It is only fear that creates the class system ... and breeds ignorance...

Well stepping off my soap box lol.... lets all hug
du lac

 

[The Mutt]

Vague by Madonna & Mutt

Come on, vague
Let your poem move to the music (move to the music)
Hey, hey, hey
Come on, vague
Let your poem go with the flow (go with the flow)
You know you can do it

All you need is your own imagination
So use it that's what it's for (that's what it's for)
Go inside, for your finest inspiration
Your dreams will open the door (open up the door)

It makes no difference if you're black or white
If you're a boy or a girl
If the music's pumping it will give you new life
You're a superstar, yes, that's what you are, you know it

Come on, vague
Let your poem groove to the music (groove to the music)
Hey, hey, hey
Come on, vague
Let your poem go with the flow (go with the flow)
You know you can do it

Beauty's where you find it
Not just where you bump and grind it
Soul is in the musical
That's where I feel so beautiful
Magical, life's a ball
So get up on the dance floor

Come on, vague
Let your body move to the music (move to the music)
Hey, hey, hey
Come on, vague
Let your body go with the flow (go with the flow)
You know you can do it

Vague, (Vague)
Beauty's where you find it (move to the music)
Vague, (Vague)
Beauty's where you find it (go with the flow)

Vague, vague

Oooh, you've got to
Let your poem move to the music
Oooh, you've got to just
Let your poem go with the flow
Oooh, you've got to
Vague

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: Yes, Schools for the gifted exist....

At the same time Gifted and Talented programs are being cut from many Public School programs, due to budgets being slashed. We have a long way to go....but kids learn at a VERY EARLY age the concepts of better/worse, first/last (they all want to be 1st in line) and higher/lower.


Sack

yes, our instinct to be the best
at what we do, our structure needs
revision but it's not like the schools in Iraq,
and around the world with nothing but a
building in dust and chairs, a system
for the children want to learn. need to..
some excell some struggle, though
they struggle this makes them lesser I say that
way of thinking is a lesser person. but I'm assured
you'll agree that not everyone see's things the same
but we are all given a brain to figure things out
and what we do with that...is what makes us.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: Re: You will never abandon higher and lower..

Sack...
are you greater than a tree? Are you greater than a bee?
You need the tree to produce air to breathe. You need the bee to pollenate the flowers that create the air that you need to live. Are you greater than the cow standing in the meadow? That gives you food to eat? Are you greater than the water that fills a lake? You need that water to drink to live. When you understand this.. you will understand that no one or anything is greater than the other. All interconnected. What you talk about above is breed from fear. Fear destroys what the true order of living is..... Fear develops such social conformity as you seek of ...
Fear kills the trees.. the bee... the cow.. and the water... finally us. We all have a purpose here... while I am gifted in some areas... I lack in others... as is true in all people and things.. this brings about balance... ying and yang. It is only fear that creates the class system ... and breeds ignorance...

Well stepping off my soap box lol.... lets all hug
du lac

hey Mutt loved the song~

Du ...~
I loved this explanation of the universal theroy
of yin and yang, I do believe in it's properties
and that all things cycle even the planet we're a
small flake in the wake, but offered a playground
to live and breed, what we do with this time is our
lives~ and then our childrens~ then theirs~
then....everything has an opposite, even problems
solutions are many times the opposite and saying that
poets sit at differtent spectrums of the same passion
poems~ vague or not, I enjoy them~

 

[Du Lac]

Re: Re: Re: You will never abandon higher and lower..

hey Mutt loved the song~

Du ...~
I loved this explanation of the universal theroy
of yin and yang, I do believe in it's properties
and that all things cycle even the planet we're a
small flake in the wake, but offered a playground
to live and breed, what we do with this time is our
lives~ and then our childrens~ then theirs~
then....everything has an opposite, even problems
solutions are many times the opposite and saying that
poets sit at differtent spectrums of the same passion
poems~ vague or not, I enjoy them~

yes Art once we realize this we can not look at children as lessor either. I do this.. walk the walk... I do not have children but I have a niece and nephew who I take time to teach these lessons to. When I coached I did the same. When I worked in the half way houses... I was not greater or lessor than the struggling masses in those homes.

Cool story... I have been the victim of abuse, rape and domestic violence. I used to go speak in female jails to the women, to help them heal. I was asked to speak to the men, who were all abusors, rapist etc. I said yes!!! Thinking that I would show them what they did to the victims...
Funny thing, when I got up there I saw myself in their eyes. I held the power to be the same as them, I could rape, abuse etc. They were no different than me. When I stood up there and spoke, I spoke to myself. It was a moving experience. Men cried, talked asked questions. I think I made a difference. I know that they did in me. It was a huge lesson. Repeated to me over and over again. The wisest people I know are children. Open and loving, teaching me to love and trust. Also that I am an adult and responsible for them and their lessons. Never mind the trees, bees and water...
hmmm a little of me .. to spread around! Maybe my poems are comprehensive now lol..
Du Lac

 

[jthserra]

Re: Re: Not to interrupt the philosophy but...

so who's the lesser? [/B]

The less lesser is the more, more or less.



Of course when we talk of vague poetry, some call vague, complex. So when I speak of Jorie Graham I guess I should say complex. In the argument of academic poetry versus non-academic poetry they call it complex.

Complex, hmm a slant rhyme for less? Ah, then that means... well to misquote Mick Jagger, "I know it's only po e try but I like it."


Of course if you believe less is more, then the lesser poet is really the morer poet. More on this lesson later... or is that Moronic less on... on... (it's getting vague here).


jim : )

 

[Du Lac]

I am a big fan of less is more.. in my poetry lol.. and in so many other realms.. good lesson there Jim
du lac

 

[Miss Oatlash]

Re: cute~

Okay let me see if I have this correct you said I've read poems on Lit and thought to myself 'what was that all about?' But I consider those some of the best poems I've read, because they made me think, feel, and interpret on my own.

and yet I didn't understand Mutt's
poem just now re read it after knowing it's
for someone else and still don't see the coralation
it just doesnt grip me and lead me to visuals
of clarity, sack doesn't see the mistletoe
in my poem, and lauren doesn't see Mutt's poem as
vague~and the fantasy poem...

we all live breath eat sleep
and yet are all different in views ...
ways ...likes and dislikes. I found it interesting
a learning poem not a poem as sack would say
'Lesser' poet by any means ... like miss O said
the ones we can't figure out are the great ones.
mine mistletoe sparked sack's confussion
which inturn produced some great topics
for criticism and structuring poems in this thread
and it's rare for me to write a vague poem.
testing the waters and tail spun a reader? hehehehe
each poem moved someone differently here
they did their job. hehehe

I said "I was surprised when someone on another thread said they couldn't understand it." It wasn't a value judgment...it was a comment, more about my experience of the poem than anyone else's.

 

[jthserra]

Lesser more or less

I once read a poet who stated that the perfect poem is wordless. I was inspired and tried to write about the perfect poem. NOTE: I am writing about the perfect poem, not saying that this is the perfect poem.


A Perfect Poem

Spoken in wordless space, the soul empirical
a product of the times, a voice screamed
at the night, at the dark, at the cold, cold heart

the world, a country in debris, a whimper
of words between the words, imagined -- divined
then etched into the limbs, the steaming skin

a bone deep, searing burn in comfort
the forgotten horror suddenly recalled
memory of love and the knife-twist betrayal.

Yet a verse of water in parched sun, desert days
the flash of life, happy, content before dying eyes
a breathless moan, a lovers eyes -- as one

rhythm of waves, of wings, of naked flesh
the silence of dark, of an instant before death
and life on a string, careless and carefree.

A rhyme not read or written, not remembered
the minutes and hours, the bead of sweat dangling
in a single, vast impossibility -- suddenly possible.

Word, after word, following word and line
the same somehow different, shapeless form
one final breath, inhaled then whispered…



Vag... ah, complex enough?


jim : )

 

[Miss Oatlash]

Love it!!