Why is obesity so prevalent amongst BDSM practitioners?

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Why is obesity so prevalent amongst BDSM practitioners?

Low self esteem would explain the weight as well as the deviant behavior.

Did you read the rest of the thread, Lance? We discuss this quite a bit. If there is a corelation between self-esteem and weight, as well as self-esteem and adherence to normative behavior, there is no telling which came first the chicken or the egg.

In other words, being non-normative in your desires, as well as being healthy, can both certainly lead to self-esteem problems. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem that high self-esteem cures either.

(Side issue: it turns out that increasing the self-esteem of criminals, especially sociopaths, makes them More criminal -- they actually commit more criminal acts when their self-esteem is raised. Happier about it, though. )

 

[Lancecastor]

http://gloria-brame.com/domidea/mbarchive/sm_and_body_size.htm

I think the discussion here has been dishonest...the truth is that yes, BDSM people, particularly subfems, tend towards being obese moreso than the general population.

If people want to be defensive about it...that's their thing.

I've done surveys here before...the average dress size and bra size here is bigger than average.

And just look at all the women on Lit who've been on psych drugs of one sort or another.

Not that it matters much, but if you asked me "why" (which is what this thread does) then my guess would be that subfems tend to have low self esteem...which would contribute to obesity, depression, masochism, etc.

That's all.

 

[rosco rathbone]

My Mistress made it very clear. If I was not fit and trim, she would not share me with her friends. It was the greatest motivational speech I ever heard.
I want her to be proud of me. I want to look my best for her. And her friends.

I think bdsm and bigness go together because hedonism and gluttony go hand in hand.

This is interesting.

I am super hardcore BDSM but also very self-denying, ascetic and non-hedonistic. (Also top/dominate master for reference).

There's a monkish strain to BDSM as well as a hedonistic one, eh?

 

[Kajira Callista]

http://gloria-brame.com/domidea/mbarchive/sm_and_body_size.htm

I think the discussion here has been dishonest...the truth is that yes, BDSM people, particularly subfems, tend towards being obese moreso than the general population.

If people want to be defensive about it...that's their thing.

I've done surveys here before...the average dress size and bra size here is bigger than average.

And just look at all the women on Lit who've been on psych drugs of one sort or another.

Not that it matters much, but if you asked me "why" (which is what this thread does) then my guess would be that subfems tend to have low self esteem...which would contribute to obesity, depression, masochism, etc.

That's all.

here is one to toss in the pot. a defense mechanism...protection.... a way to hide who you really are?

 

[FungiUg]

I think the discussion here has been dishonest...the truth is that yes, BDSM people, particularly subfems, tend towards being obese moreso than the general population.

Well, I will politely refrain from agreeing until I see something resembling conclusive evidence, rather than just someone's say so. While I'm prepared to conclude that there are more overweight people interested in BDSM than other interests, I haven't seen any evidence thus far.

Of course, if we're talking ratio of overweight to skinny between BDSM and athletics... well, I think that one's a no brainer, and I'll accept that one!

 

[The Mutt]

Well, I will politely refrain from agreeing until I see something resembling conclusive evidence, rather than just someone's say so. While I'm prepared to conclude that there are more overweight people interested in BDSM than other interests, I haven't seen any evidence thus far.

Of course, if we're talking ratio of overweight to skinny between BDSM and athletics... well, I think that one's a no brainer, and I'll accept that one!

If you have ever checked out a swinger's site, you will find a lot of large folks there too. I guess for kinky people, too much is never enough.

 

[rosco rathbone]

fat bastards.


50 of the best by the bosuns mate to the music of fife and drum is all you deserve.

and cut the rations by half, lieutenant. we'll have these fat bastards shiphape by the time we raise the Azores, what?

 

[shy slave]

I have to just vent my anger here at such nonsense

http://gloria-brame.com/domidea/mbarchive/sm_and_body_size.htm

I think the discussion here has been dishonest...the truth is that yes, BDSM people, particularly subfems, tend towards being obese moreso than the general population.

If people want to be defensive about it...that's their thing.

Not that it matters much, but if you asked me "why" (which is what this thread does) then my guess would be that subfems tend to have low self esteem...which would contribute to obesity, depression, masochism, etc.

That's all.

Its been said many times (Mist, Catalinam Esclava to name but three) that it takes a strong person to submit to the will of another (especially if its not their personal kink, God I should know lol).
Therefore i would strongly disagree that subfems tend to have low self esteem.
I would say that overweight ( and non-overweight)subfems have a high self esteem in order to be able to submit and gain pleasure from it.

Look through some threads Lance read Sunfox, Phoenix Stone, Ownedsubgirl (who doesn't see herself as strong but heck her opinions jump out and bite you!!), Etoile and Ziggy/Stardust. These subfems do not appear to suffer low self esteem.

For the record I have a hard assed Govt job that involves taking legal action against poor care providers. It takes real balls to do my job. I have been verbally and physically threatened, seen appalling care and wonderful care of all kinds of people. If I had low self-esteem i would be a nervous wreck by now.
Yet I love to submit ~ it gives me freedom and the day it doesn't I will take lesons from Shadowsdream, the Sweetdommes or Netzach and be the best hard assed Domme I can be.
Yep I about 20lbs overweight, have been underweight to and its linked to stress. The more stress the less I eat. On that basis it could mean i am a subfem with high self esteem eho, at present, lacks a high level of stress!!

PS I am with Fungiug ~ Where are the stats that say subfems who are overweight have low self-esteem.

 

[shy slave]

Wow Lance

Your good at making statements then sitting back while some of us, *raises own hand* hurl ourselves off the cliff like lemmings to contradict you.

If i had a hat I would raise it to you...will a smile do instead??!!

 

[Esclava]

http://gloria-brame.com/domidea/mbarchive/sm_and_body_size.htm

I think the discussion here has been dishonest...the truth is that yes, BDSM people, particularly subfems, tend towards being obese moreso than the general population.

<snip>

Lance,

Did you actually READ any of the comments on the url you provided? Unless they change course drastically, none of the first 30 responses confirms your "opinion."

I HAVE been "technically obese." At 5' 4" and 270 lbs, I wore a size 26 and probably looked like someone I didn't want to know. But, it had NOTHING to do with BDSM.

When my wife of 6 years (who was 5' 6" and 290 lbs) left me for someone she met on the internet, I was devastated and then depressed. But it had NOTHING to do with BDSM. That was 2 years ago. I can be seen in a picture here that was taken in April of 2004. No, I am not Tyra Banks, but I am still 5' 4", now 168 lbs and wearing sizes between 10 and 12. Because I'm an athlete and muscular enough to toss bowling equipment weighing 15+ lbs like a man, I would look anorexic at less than 140 lbs. So, am I "obese" because I'm carrying just under 30 extra pounds? I think not.

If your "personal" ideal of what is "obese" includes anyone that doesn't look like an undernourished waif, then that is YOUR problem. I don't have a self esteem issue anymore. Not unless you consider it an issue that I believe I can have ANYTHING and ANYONE I want (including you and types just like you, Mr. Irresistable).

A dishonest discussion? I don't think so. If what you see here is dishonest, then it matches the discussion on the webpage you provided in your url...and I wonder why you would provide a link to something that didn't support your opinion ...

Esclava

 

[Etoile]

Re: I have to just vent my anger here at such nonsense

Look through some threads Lance read Sunfox, Phoenix Stone, Ownedsubgirl (who doesn't see herself as strong but heck her opinions jump out and bite you!!), Etoile and Ziggy/Stardust. These subfems do not appear to suffer low self esteem.

Wow. Thank you.

Let's keep in mind that overweight and obese are statistical figures. Sure, we can say that somebody's obese because we think they're fat, but it's their BMI that counts.
http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/overweight.htm

 

[Lancecastor]

"psychiatry still pathologizes BDSM, and I maintain that this contributes to shame, secrecy, isolation, and self-loathing within the BDSM community."

http://www.ipgcounseling.com/psychology_and_bdsm.html

~

The personality profile of the typical BDSM person includes shame and self-loathing as significant components.

The sources/blame for the self loathing aren't relevant to the discussion as to why obesity is so prevalent amongst BDSM practicioners..it is simply the case that BDSM practicioners as compared to the general public carry a burden of shame and self loathing that exceeds "normal" society.

This makes sense; any out-of-norm behavior pattern, particularly a sexual behavior, will attract shunning/shaming, especially in the USA.

Shame and self loathing are often externalized via obesity. Most of you have seen enough episodes of Dr Phil and Oprah to accept this as trite, I would think.

This is offered as an explanation (and a logical one at that) as to why BDSM people tend towards obesity.

Because that's what the thread is asking us to discuss.

If some of you hold other views and have some third party links that support your views, please provide your links in your replies.

 

[Etoile]

Shame and self loathing are often externalized via obesity. Most of you have seen enough episodes of Dr Phil and Oprah to accept this as trite, I would think.

I think I am not the only one who is going to take the Oprah/Dr. Phil comment as an insult, Lance.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Lance...

I was almost with ya there, pal... until this last post.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'd love to see where your self loathing is, Lance. Of all the personalities I've encountered at Lit... there's no one who likes themselves as well as you do, except maybe me.

How do you explain your BDSM and dominant behaviors?

 

[Esclava]

I'd love to see where your self loathing is, Lance. Of all the personalities I've encountered at Lit... there's no one who likes themselves as well as you do, except maybe me.

How do you explain your BDSM and dominant behaviors?

Do tell!

Or are you a member of the BDSM masses of which you speak and the self-image you have presented to us is inaccurate?

Or do the findings of your psychiatrist(s) declare those of us without burdens of shame and self-loathing "atypical" BDSMers? And what IS an atypical BDSMer?

Esclava

 

[Lancecastor]

How do you explain your BDSM and dominant behaviors?

My family history is 100% English...my grandfathers were both seacaptains in a British Colony...what they said, went...I am the eldest of three sons...my mother always did what dad said.

I am master of my domain.

Those who disobey will be punished...probably spanked.

Pretty straightforward stuff.

If some of you choose to be insulted by the suggestion that western society views obese people as having some degree of self-loathing...so be it.

If you choose to discuss it, however...please articulate an alternate explanation with third party links provided.

Or stop your whining.

 

[A Desert Rose]

...stop your whining.

I only whine in PM.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I only whine in PM.

i only whine when ADR tells me to stop snapping my gum

 

[Lancecastor]

Just don't confuse anything I've said in discussion with a lack of interest in putiing my penis inside you and moving it back and forth over and over and over.

 

[A Desert Rose]

My family history is 100% English...my grandfathers were both seacaptains in a British Colony...what they said, went...I am the eldest of three sons...my mother always did what dad said.

I am master of my domain.

Those who disobey will be punished...probably spanked.

Pretty straightforward stuff.

If some of you choose to be insulted by the suggestion that western society views obese people as having some degree of self-loathing...so be it.

If you choose to discuss it, however...please articulate an alternate explanation with third party links provided.

Or stop your whining.

I'm sure some of us are impressed with your pedigree. Thanks.

I'm not insulted by your posts. And no matter how many links you can google to support your opinion, when you start telling us how things are in the US, I shut you off. When you paint all BDSMer's with this broad a brush, I stop paying attention. I will not go into discussing myself, my personality, my grandparent's boat trip here from Naples, my tendencies, how I'm wired or my birth order.

No one cares.

I won't google search shit. I post an opinion here and that's that. It can be agreed with or not. I did happen to agree with you and posted such early in this thread that there ARE people, women especially, who have self-esteem issues that are exhibited in their submissive behavior. Not ALL of us are in that category, however.

Okay. that's all I have to say on that.

KC? You are the only one who can snap her gum around me.

 

[Kajira Callista]

 

[Esclava]

ADR said it ...

... more prolifically than I would have.

I would have cursed your ignorant attitude out. Because that's all one can offer with an inability to appreciate differing viewpoints - ignorance.

Fortunately for you, I only resort to using the vocabulary of the uneducated when I feel like I'm not being heard. Fortunately for me, you don't matter enough for me to desire to be heard. Good evening.

Esclava

 

[shy slave]

"psychiatry still pathologizes BDSM, and I maintain that this contributes to shame, secrecy, isolation, and self-loathing within the BDSM community."

http://www.ipgcounseling.com/psychology_and_bdsm.html

~

The personality profile of the typical BDSM person includes shame and self-loathing as significant components.

The sources/blame for the self loathing aren't relevant to the discussion as to why obesity is so prevalent amongst BDSM practicioners..it is simply the case that BDSM practicioners as compared to the general public carry a burden of shame and self loathing that exceeds "normal" society.

This makes sense; any out-of-norm behavior pattern, particularly a sexual behavior, will attract shunning/shaming, especially in the USA.

Shame and self loathing are often externalized via obesity. Most of you have seen enough episodes of Dr Phil and Oprah to accept this as trite, I would think.

This is offered as an explanation (and a logical one at that) as to why BDSM people tend towards obesity.

Because that's what the thread is asking us to discuss.

If some of you hold other views and have some third party links that support your views, please provide your links in your replies.

Ok I may now be shunned by Etiolle ADR and Esclava but I thought The article interesting.

I have had difficulties with the DMV IV when trying to establish a mental health issue or dementia in someone who has learning disabilities ~ the criteria does not fit.
That said the DMV IV is widely used and recognised. Many other points in the article we could debate, and i love to mind wrestle stuff

Still does not answer why it appears that BDSM practitioners are overweight (either in their own minds or through proven figures on body mass index).

Would still like to consider the angle the angle that they are comfortable with who they are inside as it can be a difficult journey to admit want you want may be considered outside the norm (whatever that is).
As to the DrPhil/Oprah comment as a UK person who does not get sky these comments went pretty much over my head.
Jerry Springer well I love that show especially the bitch fighting ~now thats entertainment!!!

Off to read my Pm's may be back to edit this having read them tho'

 

[A Desert Rose]

Ok I may now be shunned by Etiolle ADR and Esclava but I thought The article interesting....

This offends me.

Why would you think that I would shun you for having an opinion? I only ignore people who are unkind, catty or just generally rude to me.

Lance provides a lot of interesting opinions and googled articles. I often agree with him and do to a certain degree in this thread. And have already stated as much.