Why is the laundry more important?

[Guest]

diverted thread

it's an interesting concept. each day i have my own opinion on what's important in my life, confirmed.

WSO-
I agree with you! But even more, everyday we show the world what we value and is important.... while not all of us has the same monetary resources, we all have the same amount of time... into what and who we invest this time and our financial resources reveals our hearts...

Why is the laundry important? Making a home that is emotionally safe is to an extent tied up with it being "regular" and "constant". While I can, and do, function in the midst of chaos-- not filth-- my husband and two of my daughters get anxious if things are too disordered... So, I make sure that they always have clean and matching socks where they can find them and that their favorite snack foods are in the cabinets... along with other details too seemingly inconsequential and numerous to list...

Do I have to do these things? No. Do I want to do them because I love them and its evidence of that love.. You betcha! Do I make my kids contribute to the well-being of our home.. Got that straight!

-b

 

[Svenskaflicka]

When my DH and I get kids, I plan to dump them at a creche as soon as they are old enough for it.

But, hey, I respect the strange, weird, cooky people who prefer to stay at home with their offspring!
LOL

 

[wildsweetone]

nope, not biting, svenskaflicka lol

each to his or her own i say

 

[its Leslie]

What do kids that know daycare, and kids with lame parents have in common?....

According to all I have seen, the kids don't turn out as good, as kids with superior parents.

I know that won't sit well with daycare needing parents. Sorry, I am not responsible for the results, just reporting them.

It has been shown, that toddlers see being dumped with "strange not mommy people" as systematic rejection.

It is unfortunate, but it DOES happen.

Just being at home with them is not enough of course.

I have seen parents that raised their kids from day one, and did a lousy job, and ended up with difficult troublesome kids.

Worst example I know of, is a friend of mine (sometimes I wonder about her, but she doesn't get sympathy where her kids are concerned), could beat her son with a bat and he still won't give her respect.
He is in his mid teens and dying to find the first work (any work) that gets him out of town so he can never see her again.

All because she must have broke every rule and bit of common sense I can think of.

Telling a kid you love him once or twice does not erase screaming at him. Punishing by throwing away possessions, using hurtful statements like "if you don't do as you are told, I will kill you", daily berating etc etc.
Never meaning what you say, never doing what you say, in short being the worst example possible, you might as well just send them to daycare and let someone else raise them..

The kid by the way is a nice kid. Fine with total strangers who have not lost his respect. But sadly his life will be filled with emotional baggage, and a constant uphill climb with no assistance from his parents.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Then again, staying home, doing nothing but household work, and spending time with no-one but kids, won't stimulate your brain or your social side, and then you won't be as good a parent for your child or a partner for your mate.

My best friend works part-time and has her son in a day-care center. She wants to get a full-time job. I've never seen any kid being more mentally stable, or more happy, than that one.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

What do kids that know daycare, and kids with lame parents have in common?....

According to all I have seen, the kids don't turn out as good, as kids with superior parents.

I can see the difference between what you call lame parents and superior parents, but you're not seriously saying that just because Mr and Mrs X keep their two kids in a day care center, they are inferior???

 

[its Leslie]

Heck no!!

Lame parents are lame parents. But those that use daycare are NOT automatically lame.

They just suffer with potentially the same end result.

As for me, no I am not aaaaaaalways just here. I have an active social life as does my wife. We come and go easily enough.

We always make sure one of us is here for our 8 year old is all.

 

[DVS]

I don't have kids, but I am always there for my cats. That's as close as I can get, at present. I'll work on it, but I have to tell it will take at least 9 months, and probably much longer.

My favorite form of sex is anal...hard to get pregnant that way, you know. Or, is that possibly how people become anal retentive?

 

[Quasimodem]

I go away for one day and what do I find?

Anal sex and lame parents in the laundry.

I shall not even stoop to ask if the parents became lame from the anal sex!

Come now, children. Clean up the laundry, for heaven's sake.

There now, you've gone and given me a headache.

Gotta go take another valium.

 

[Guest]

kids

My favorite form of sex is anal

DVS- makes your avatar painful to watch... turbulence.. what a bitch..

Okay, I'll say it... becoming a parent turns your life inside out. Period. You can live in denial, put your kids in day care, get an au pair or gameboy station, but when it comes down to it, your kid needs you.

It isn't logical, nor is it convenient, but the overwhelming majority of studies involving little ones experiencing over 20 hours a week without a parent show really bad results... increased anti-social behavior, lower achievement in school, higher teen-pregnancy rates, higher rates of depression..... the list keeps increasing as the number of years the studies go on increases... I can dig up the references if anyone wants them...Huge study commissioned by Vanderbilt Medical School.

We don't have a dog because I can't take on another entity that depends upon me for it's well-being. I don't like it when people get pets without "counting the cost", and the dog they "had to have" spends most of its time alone in a yard or house. Kids are more important and the risks are even more tragic.

Life isn't perfect, but I try to aim at the ideal and then if I fall short the results will, I hope, not be as devastating.

I'm sure I've offended people.... that wasn't my intention...

-b

 

[its Leslie]

Thanks for sharing the bullseye with me bridget, I don't feel so much like a target now heheh.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

*using slingshots to throw pebbles at Leslie, so he will feel more like a target*

Potentially. Kids who spend their days in day care centers, where they get fed, get to play, are taught little silly songs, etc, POTENTIALLY don't turn out good.

And kids who spend their days at home with their mother, where they get fed, get to play, are taught little silly songs, etc, POTENTIALLY turn out to be mama's boys.

 

[its Leslie]

Oh come on Svenska you ain't playing the game heheh, I expected at least a good dose of horse dump thrown at me heheh.

I have a friend, she works in a daycare. She is likely a great daycare worker. Odds are the kids reeeeally like her.
They probably have lots of fun there too.

The problem is not the daycare workers or the environment the kids recieve there, its how they percieve mom always dumping them there that causes the trouble.

Rejection to a small child leaves marks we adults just refuse to see unfortunately.

So regardless of my friends notions of how she gives the kids a superior day at her daycare center, its how the kid sees mommy that is what this all about.

 

[Guest]

it's all in perception

Rejection to a small child leaves marks we adults just refuse to see unfortunately.

Leslie- hit the nail on the head... adults refuse to see things that would require discomfort or sacrifice on their part...

and it does come down to how the children see their value as reflected by their parents... there is no getting around this, it is hard wired into each of us...

even being an adult and being able to recognize our parents' weaknesses and shortcomings doesn't make us immune from their attitudes toward us... we may have more sophisticated ways of handling them, but the core ability to be hurt or cherished is always there.

families are very safe or very dangerous places to be

-b

 

[DVS]

Re: it's all in perception

Leslie- hit the nail on the head... adults refuse to see things that would require discomfort or sacrifice on their part...

...families are very safe or very dangerous places to be-b

Did you guys have that terrible of a childhood?
Although I do agree with the statement that families can be very safe OR very dangerous.

But, adults REFUSE to see things? Mine didn't. At least not on purpose. Of course, I didn't grow up in the busy times of today, when both parents have to go out of the home to work. But, I don't think good loving parents consciously refuse to acknowledge mental stress in their kids.

Sure, I know there are some who don't even know it's there, and there are some who see it, and do nothing about it for any number of reasons. But, I don't think the majority of parents do it. Or, if they do, it causes stress in their lives and do look for a way to remove the child's stress or to minimize it, if only to remove their own stress.

Daycare isn't perfect, but it has become necessary, for some. A stay at home mom is the ideal, but not always possible for many people.
And, someone has already said that the stay at home mom isn't always going to be best. This always depends on the mom. Mine was special, but I did get the feeling of a momma's boy, in my adolescent years (but I did break free!).

And, it needs to be mentioned that the early years in a child's development should to be thought of. It helps their social coping abilities to be part of a group, early in life. Being an only child with a stay at home mom can be very stressful, too.

The sharing of toys is one thing. I know of a few only childs, and they have their own horror stories. Sometimes they are the lonely child. They are sometimes given toys to shut them up, in place of love.

And, another thing...it has been found that children who are exposed to other children in their early development years have less of a chance to get allergies, later in life. The more things they are exposed to (and not in a pristinely clean environment), the more they develop a tolerance to (and aren't bothered by) in their adult lives.

Sharing toys, getting into fights, and learning to be among other kids teaches acceptance for others.
And sure, they may get lice, colds and the flu, but these things build up their immune system for later.

Social skills and environmental immunities are a couple of things we all need. My social skills were learned the hard way. Many times I didn't understand personal relationships, growing up.

I have a variety of allergies today. Maybe it would have been easier for me in my youth, or maybe I wouldn't have allergies now, IF I had spend time in daycare.

Who knows? I still feel the stay at home mom is the ideal situation, but it isn't perfect. BUT, I think there are good things about daycare too.

~DISCLAIMER~
Keep in mind I have no kids!

 

[Guest]

nice thoughts, but research disagrees

DVS-

Nice ideas about the advantages of "early exposure" to groups, but the research disagrees with you, as I stated earlier...

I have done extensive research-- read lots and lots of papers that are filling bins in my house-- regarding early childhood education and care and its impact on kiddos... it's a hot topic in our state's public policy....

A couple of things stood out:

until a kid is 8 the primary relationship need is with their parent

anti-social behavior increases as age entering "group care" decreases, this behavior manifests itself fully in the pre-teen years

any gains in readiness for school are lost by grade 3

"learning to share" usually becomes bullying and pecking order in group situations as the adult/child ratio doesn't provide adequate interventions

These were all relevant for children spending more than 20 hours per week without one of their parents.

I don't advocate wrapping children in cotton wool and isolating them... I am just pointing out the research proven results of early and extensive day care.

-b

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Can't we just grow them in farms?

DVS-

I don't advocate wrapping children in cotton wool and isolating them... I am just pointing out the research proven results of early and extensive day care.

-b

Bridge, I won't discuss research, partly because I haven't read it, ans partly because I don't know who is behind the research, an objective scientist or a man trying to find proof to support his opinion that women should stay at home.

However, I'll give you some insight in my upbringing.

My parents left me with a babysitter when I was very little, maybe 2-3 years old, atleast so I've been told, as I can't remember my earliest years. I do remember being 5, when my mum used to drop me off on her way to work, at the house of a family my parents knew, where the mother took care of both me and her own daughter.
Apart from the woman always taking her daughter's side when we bickered, I remember it as a fun time.

When I was 7, they moved to another town, and my mum had to find another woman to take care of me. This time, I came to stay with a woman who looked after most of the kids in my village, as their parents were working. Again, this was a period of playing with the other kids, having fun, occasional fights, and sometimes reluctance to go home before us kids had finished playing a game. And, again, the only bad part about this woman was that she had favourites.

When I was 10, I was tired of staying with the younger kids in that woman's house, so my parents made a deal with me. They gave me a spare key to our home to wear in a string around my neck, and I was to go straight home after school and entertain myself at home until my parents got home.
That worked out great.

My parents needed the jobs, needed the money, and, I suspect, needed to work and feel useful. I have never felt abandoned or dumped or anything. Also, I learned how to read and write when I was 5, and have been ahead of most of my classmates ever since.

So, apart from the fact that I was some kind of super-kid , I'd argue that all kids are different and react differently, and the majority get passed any feeling of being "dumped" when they get old enough to understand WHY parents have to go to work.

Even though kids may prefer to stay home with mommy, they don't really suffer from being in a day care center.

But stay-at-home moms suffer from being told that they are turning their kids into whimps, just as bad as career moms suffer from being told that they are turning their kids into psychos.

To each his or her own, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. How about we drop this subject and talk about sex instead?

 

[wildsweetone]

cool, interesting topic!

i am a mother of two (girl 14, boy 12) and an educator.

i am an advocate of being a parent first, and a career minded person second.

i would respectfully suggest that statistics are around and can be manipulated to whatever angle is needed at the time. having said that, there are often irrefutable evidences which will back up certain statistics, eg physical child abuse.

i have worked with children in day care and kindergarten facilities, also with children in primary school - all ages from 0-13 and with homeschooled children 5-14, and also with special needs children.

having sat through many courses over the last 10 years, i can understand all viewpoints only too well.

i have learned that 'systems' rarely cater for anything other than keeping the system running. i have learned that the best way to help children grow is to work for the child not for the system, or the parent, or the teacher.

now, that may sound a little odd. but it is so easy to watch children being railroaded ahead into life without any real thought being put in.

i think on the whole, just as life for an adult, then life for a child should be 'everything in moderation'.

my daughter at age 2 was throwing books on the floor because she couldn't read the stories in them. she was so frustrated and wanted desperately to learn how to read. i visited the local primary school, spoke to the head teacher there and was told to not teach her how to read - leave it to the school to do that once she became 5yo and started there.

i thought how ridiculous, it was obvious she wanted to learn, why should i stifle that interest. so i went about teaching her to read myself. because i have taken interest in her learning, she has achieved so much, she is now about to sit exams with kids older than her. had i stifled that initial excitement for learning in her, she wouldn't be as intelligent as she is. nor would she be interested in enjoying learning.

so, what is right for one child is not always right for another. what is right for one parent, is not always right for another. but don't you think, that if we give birth to a child, then it is our responsibility until that child dies, to be there for him or her, to be their 'rock'?

you know, as soon as a woman gives birth, she is saying goodbye to her child in tiny ways. the child has left the security of her womb, then the child leaves her full time care, then the child leaves home... it's up to us as parents to teach our children how to learn for themselves, how to trust in their own opinions, how to be loving and giving... we know in our hearts that we have tried our best.

i apologise for waffling.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I could have skipped a class, but didn't. I was stuck with kids my own physical age. If my kids turn out to be as intelligent as I am, I'm gonna let them skip classes if they want to.

Now what's this "it" that you're telling me I'm full of???

 

[wildsweetone]

i also think going into parenthood with preconceived notions is a wonderful thing... until the child can move and speak for themselves that is, then all hell can break loose.

 

[DVS]

Re: Can't we just grow them in farms?

To each his or her own, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. How about we drop this subject and talk about sex instead?

So, you want to talk about sex, huh?

Those years you spent in other homes...were you ever physically punished, in addition to their playing favorites?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Re: Re: Can't we just grow them in farms?

So, you want to talk about sex, huh?

Those years you spent in other homes...were you ever physically punished, in addition to their playing favorites?

No!

They just put me through an intelligence-insult-trauma by saying that the younger kids were more mature than I was.

I'll never get over it!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

i also think going into parenthood with preconceived notions is a wonderful thing... until the child can move and speak for themselves that is, then all hell can break loose.

Which is why I suggest we grow them in farms out in the country, where we won't have to see or listen to the little buggers!

 

[DVS]

Well, being the only boy of the family, I got similar scoldings.

"Why can't you be more like your sisters?" was one of my mother's favorites. To this day, I am the black sheep of the family. Although my parents are now dead, my sisters have no problem carrying this on.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Then again, the world would be a better place if men acted a bit more like women, and women acted a bit more like men. Then we'd have a balance.


Unisex rules!