Why not normalize U.S. relations with Cuba?

[JoePepsiCo]

That's it! Now you're thinking like a Communist!

As long as you recognize it then we're finally understanding each other...

 

[JoePepsiCo]

I just had to think like you.

 

[Politruk]

The Revolutionary War?

Subversive from within.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Oh.

Worthy War.

 

[Politruk]

Normalizing relations with Cuba will not make the U.S. any more Communist. But it might make Cuba less Communist.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

It might also make Communism a little stronger, a little more attractive, it's not like a vacation in Nome...


... or Siberia, even the Chinese parts.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Mainstream it. Put Socialism back in vogue.

Never mind the results and the accordant human tragedy.

This time, we're rich enough to get it right, (But if you cannot get it right in paradise...)

 

[Politruk]

Mainstream it. Put Socialism back in vogue.

Never mind the results and the accordant human tragedy.

This time, we're rich enough to get it right, (But if you cannot get it right in paradise...)

Well, at any rate, social democracy, as distinct from socialism, does work better than anything else that has yet been tried. Certainly it works better than America's plutocracy-ruled version of capitalism.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Subjective valuation

You pick the weights and measures and dare anyone to dispute them.

By all your standards, everything you say is absolutely valid but I am not so sure as to the veritas of it.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Put Socialism back in vogue.

STILL clinging to "trickle down economics...teh Magic Hand Of The Market" as the panacea for everything, AJ?

How sad.

When you first slunk onto this board decades ago, "but...but...That's SOCIALISM!" used to be one of your preferred 'shutdown the discussion' comments.

You still use socialism as a pejorative, but unfortunately for you, millennials and Gen-Z folks now simply stare quizzically at you and they will generally respond "yes, and?"

The world has moved on and you haven't, AJ.

 

[Politruk]

Subjective valuation

It's not subjective. Social democracy has proven to be the surest path to broadly shared prosperity. Economic libertarianism/neoliberalism/supply-side never accomplishes anything but its true intended goal, which is to make the rich richer. These are historical facts.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

I can make broad a priori statements too, but I tend to avoid them.

Nobody accepts your truth when you state it as gospel sans any proof; like your quoting scripture at us...

 

[SevMax2]

It's not subjective. Social democracy has proven to be the surest path to broadly shared prosperity. Economic libertarianism/neoliberalism/supply-side never accomplishes anything but its true intended goal, which is to make the rich richer. These are historical facts.

I would concur that social democracy is probably the most balanced and practical compromise or consensus system that could be established in most countries, if not all. We were on our way there with the New Deal Consensus until the neoliberals fucked it all up.

 

[MajorRewrite]

It is not cool to trade with China.

Trump Tariffs ring a bell?

Trump did not end trade with China. In fact Trump has hats, bibles and other Trump merchandise made in China.

You seem very agitated today.

 

[Politruk]

Clinton in 1992 talked like he was going to end China's Most Favored Nation trading status because of human-rights abuses. (Not end trade with China, only the MFN status.) As president he found himself helpless to do that, because American business interests would not allow it.

Plutocracy rules here. And business has no interest in any political system as such.

 

[ChloeTzang]

If the whole Caribbean were U.S. territory, it should be organized as seven states:

1. Cuba
2. Haiti
3. San Domingo
4. Puerto Rico
5. Bahamas -- including the Turks & Caicos (also British)
6. Jamaica -- including the Cayman Islands (also British)
7. And all the Lesser Antilles, the Windward Islands and Leeward Islands, from the Virgin Islands to Aruba, to be united as the State of Antillia.

I doubt some of them would want to join us, but you know what, I'd say give them the option as a one off. Haiti's a bit questionable. Not worth it at all and Jamaica likewise. I suspect the Bahamas is just too British. In the end, I still think it'd boil down to Cuba and Puerto Rico

 

[Rightguide]

With whom is Cuba allied?

With all of our enemies.

 

[Politruk]

With all of our enemies.

Our enemies are our own American plutocrats. Cuba ain't allied with them.

 

[dmallord]

But the ones who fled Castro's revolution are dead or retired now. Their children and grandchildren see things differently.

Hell no! They aren't all dead yet kid. Just a lot of 'em.

 

[Politruk]

Hell no! They aren't all dead yet kid. Just a lot of 'em.

Well, they left Cuba in 1959. I'm sure most are at least retired by now.

 

[Politruk]

Clinton in 1992 talked like he was going to end China's Most Favored Nation trading status because of human-rights abuses. (Not end trade with China, only the MFN status.) As president he found himself helpless to do that, because American business interests would not allow it.

Plutocracy rules here. And business has no interest in any political system as such.

And American Big Sugar, based in the sugarcane fields of Florida, does NOT want competition from Cuba; so that's a factor too.

 

[Rebel5soul]

I doubt some of them would want to join us, but you know what, I'd say give them the option as a one off. Haiti's a bit questionable. Not worth it at all and Jamaica likewise. I suspect the Bahamas is just too British. In the end, I still think it'd boil down to Cuba and Puerto Rico

There is nothing to be gained. Let them steer their own ship.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

There is nothing to be gained. Let them steer their own ship.

Pay the stowage...

 

[Rebel5soul]

Pay the stowage...

During WWII the UK gave us a portion of the Virgin Islands as part of the lean-lease deal. They retained a portion for themselves. The two portions are separated by a narrow strip of water. The US Virgin Islands are a crime ridden shit hole while the British Virgin Islands are a peaceful little slice of paradise.

Exactly how many island shit holes do we want in that region?

 

[JoePepsiCo]

If it is part of a mass relocation program of people who just know better how to run lives...,

ALL OF THEM!!!

all of dem