Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

[woody54]

What kind of pussy answer is that?

You seem to be one of the resident conspiracy nuts on here and I was curious if you saw a conspiracy there too.

You and I could look at all the research you want and we're most likey not going to agree on much of it. I add 2+2 and get 4 which makes you think I'm stupid. You on the other hand add 2+2 and get 723,352,452,321.26.

So... Sometimes its entertaining to hear whatever whacko conspiracy theory you might come up with.

If you want a shot at the American record of successful bombings , and I think there are about 50 by people of Christianised interests, start a new thread and we can ask why real internal terrorism doesnt warrant the consideration that a few desert dwellers get for living on top of Americas oil dreams.
Your span of attention may not be long enough because Fox will be saying, "Hey look over there" and the point on inyernal terrorism will be gone like your attention.

Why hasn't the FBI cracked the Anthrax attacks. Its down to some Doctor/ Scientist type, lets see some waterboarding therapy on him for some answers or do you onlty allow that on non citizens?

 

[Shamanskiss]

Check your sources....

They were mainly captured in the Western Desert in 1941, during Rommel's first offensive, which means they couldn't have been SAS or other commando's, those hadn't yet been formed.

I am guessing you mean ref' March to June 1941 (Tobruk ?)

The British Commandos were first formed by the Army in June/July 1940
8 Commando, which was more commonly known as ‘Layforce’
after its commander, Captain Robert Laycock.

Seperately, other raiding Commandos were formed ,The Long Range Desert Group was formed by Ralph Bagnold in 1940 and played a major part in the Allies victory in North Africa in World War Two. By September 13th, 1940, the LRDG set up its first base at the Siwa Oasis , and formal operations commenced. To begin with, Bagnold’s new unit had been known as the Long Range Patrol Group.

The first unit of the SAS was made up of 66 men from Layforce and it included seven officers, July 1941 . ( General Sir Claude Auchinleck, C-in-C Middle East, authorised the formation of L Detachment, Special Air Service Brigade. Stirling, who had already served with the Commandos of 'Layforce', was promoted to Captain and allowed to recruit six officers and sixty other ranks from the remnants of Layforce. The name was part of a deception plan to convince the Germans a brigade of airborne troops had arrived in Egypt.)
The detachment set up camp at Kabrit near the Suez Canal and began training. Its first "raid" was on a nearby New Zealand camp to steal much-needed supplies. The first SAS raid against the German and Italian forces in Libya was to coincide with the offensive to relieve Tobruk, Operation Crusader, in November 1941.)

The 'Commandos' first large scale mission was to capture Pantelleria. On 12th December 1940, the operation was cancelled
That assembly of fighting men was known as 'Layforce', after its C.O., Robert Laycock.
From the ashes of 'Layforce' was formed - the Middle East Commando. Formed in October 1941, this new group included men from No 3 Troop, 11th (Scottish) Commando.
No 5 Commando formation in July 1940 , disbandment in January 1947. In October 1940, a few months after recruitment started, 5 and 6 Commandos were absorbed into 5 Special Service Battalion which was based at Helensburgh in west central Scotland. The commanding officer was Lt-Colonel T. Featherstonhaugh of the King's Royal Rifle Company.

a further reorganization took place after the Lofoten Islands operations in mid-March 1941. No.5 Special Service Battalion became No.5 Commando under Lt-Colonel W.S.S. Sanguinetti of the Hampshire Regiment, based at Barrhead, but shortly to move to Falmouth.

The early Commando units were formed in the first few weeks of July 1940. They were raised in different parts of Britain mainly from Army volunteers. Nos. 3 and 4 Commandos were formed from Southern Command, Nos. 5 and 6 from Western Command, No. 7 from Eastern Command, No. 8 mainly from the London District and the Household Division and Nos. 9 and 11 from Scottish Command. On the 17th of July 1940.

Check your dates.

Hitler's death penalty for commando's was instituted after the attack on what they thought was Rommel's headquarters in Benghazi. As far as I know, the only British commandos actually executed were the glider troops captured in early 1943 after the botched attack on Norsk Hydro in Norway. British commando's captured in France, if they were sent to a concentration camp, ended up in Sachsenhausen, where nobody was tattooed.

"In August 1940, six Britons were captured in North Africa operating behind the lines, Hitler ordered their execution".
(David Irving HITLER’S WAR Africa and Stalingrad.. That one seemed an appropriate starting point.)
He also cites the Raid on Sark, as the trigger for the formal Execution Order, not sure about that though.

Operation Musketoon was an Anglo-Norwegian raid against a German-held Generator Station at Glomfjord, Norway in September, 1942
they were taken to Sachsenhausen detention camp and executed, the first victims of Hitler's Commando Order.
†Captain Graeme. D Black MC - born 9th May, 1911, in Dresden, Ontario
†Captain Joseph. B J Houghton MC - born 13th June, 1911, at Bromborough
†L./Sgt. William Chudley (explosives) - born 10th May, 1922, at Exeter
†Rflm. Eric Curtis (explosives)
†Pte. Reginald Makeham - born 28th January, 1914, at Ipswich
†Cpl. Miller Smith - born 2nd November, 1915, at Middlesbrough
†Rflm. Cyril Abram - born 20th August, 1922, in London
†Cpl. Erling M Djupdraet
† = executed October 30th, 1942

After an operation against the Tirpitz Hitler ordered a twenty-year-old seaman who had been shot through the legs by his Norwegian captors, to be executed.

Three weeks later the same fate met the fourteen British survivors of a commando-style attack launched on a hydroelectric power station in Norway : the first glider had crashed into the sea, killing all aboard ; the second had crashed with its towing aircraft into a hillside. The Norwegian police rounded up the survivors. The Germans found extensive sabotage equipment in the wreckage. In accordance with the new Commando Order, all fourteen were shot before darkness fell.

Operation Frankton.Bordeaux Harbour....... 7/12 December 1942......
Wallace & Ewart, (Coalfish), Laver & Mills (Crayfish) and MacKinnan & Conway (Cuttlefish) were executed under Hitler's order on Commandos.

On 2 November 1943 three British commandos captured at Pascara, Italy, were given "special treatment" (Sonderbehandelt), which meant death. What happened to the remaining nine who were wounded and in the hospital is not known, however it is likely that they too were similarly disposed of.

During the night of l9th-Nov, 1942, a British freight glider crashed near Egersund, in Norway. The glider carried a British Commando Unit of 17 men, of whom three were apparently killed in the crash. All were in British uniform. Fourteen survivors were executed in accordance with the Hitler Order, the evening of 20th November

Operation Freshman 19 November 1942...........
20 soldiers (11 from one glider and 9 from the other) were killed by the Germans following the issuing of the Commando Order by Hitler in October 1942. 11 were taken to a German army camp at Slettbo and shot, 5 were taken to a German concentration camp at Grini, near Oslo. These five were kept at the concentration camp until their execution by firing squad on 18 January 1943.

Operation Houndsmith....
the Germans executed 24 SAS soldiers and a US Army Air Force pilot.

And not just British forces....
Waffen-SS soldiers executed American POWs at Malmedy, during the Battle of the Bulge

In February 1945, 350 American POWs captured earlier at the Battle of the Bulge or elsewhere in Europe were singled out by the Nazis because they were Jews or were thought to resemble Jews. They were transported in cattle cars to Berga, a concentration camp in eastern Germany, and put to work as slave laborers, mining tunnels for a planned underground synthetic-fuel factory. Starved and brutalized, the GIs were denied their rights as prisoners of war, their ordeal culminating in a death march that was halted by liberation near the Czech border. Twenty percent of these soldiers–more than seventy of them–perished.
Morton Goldstein, a garrulous GI from New Jersey, shot dead by the Nazi in charge of the American prisoners .

This is a sample, simply to query your 'one execution event theory' , and your claim ref' one concentration camp.. Perhaps you need to broaden your much self-vaunted reading and research.

Bergen-Belsen was liberated by a small British medical team, invited there by Kommandant Josef Kramer to help deal with the catastrophic typhus epidemic,

Bergen Belsen,The first units to formally enter the camp. in a van with a loudspeaker, were from the 14 Amplifier Unit, Intelligence Corps and 63rd Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery. Two days later, on April 17, 1945, British Medical units arrived.

Just as a caveat to that, neither unit would have been allowed anywhere near that camp,whether Waffen SS guards were there or not, until combat units had recon'd it and made some efforts to 'secure' it. Non-combatant/Intelligence units would not have been allowed into such an exposed , avoidable, situation , unless they themsleves were infact combat troops , or interspersed with a significant presence of experienced combat troops.. I think you might be mixing up your preferred PR with common sense that does sometimes have a place in military SOP.

Any other unimpeachable historical sources to share with us?

That seems a little rich coming from you. Even the thread's 'preferred' historian contradicts you.

Oh....The tattoo wrist moment you enjoyed...Please excuse my anatomical innacuracy in saying wrist when perhaps forearm might well have been empirically far more accurate. I don't think too many people will regard my one to two inch generalisation as solid grounds to dismiss the Holocaust. I am certain that the tattoos were placed in the exact same, measured location every time they were applied. After all, the war , depended on it.

Sadly, all this is a waste of breath.
Tablets of stone would be pointless.
If some people bumped into a speaking burning bush, they would start screaming about Jewish, ventriloquist, arsonists.

Before I forget...Where the fuck did all those Jews etc, that you say didn't get killed, get to. Where the fuck did they go.
Bet they were all hiding in some old lady's attic.
Bloody hell, that must be a big house.
Hang on,
you probably know they were really Aliens , that the Jew thing is just another layer of the conspirator's front, and they just got bored to buggery and went home,somewhere, over the Rainbow.

 

[krastner]

By shemannkiss..
That seems a little rich coming from you. Even the thread's 'preferred' historian contradicts you.

Oh....The tattoo wrist moment you enjoyed...Please excuse my anatomical innacuracy in saying wrist when perhaps forearm might well have been empirically far more accurate. I don't think too many people will regard my one to two inch generalisation as solid grounds to dismiss the Holocaust. I am certain that the tattoos were placed in the exact same, measured location every time they were applied. After all, the war , depended on it.

Sadly, all this is a waste of breath.
Tablets of stone would be pointless.
If some people bumped into a speaking burning bush, they would start screaming about Jewish, ventriloquist, arsonists.

Before I forget...Where the fuck did all those Jews etc, that you say didn't get killed, get to. Where the fuck did they go.
Bet they were all hiding in some old lady's attic.
Bloody hell, that must be a big house.
Hang on,
you probably know they were really Aliens , that the Jew thing is just another layer of the conspirator's front, and they just got bored to buggery and went home,somewhere, over the Rainbow.
__________________

You are a very hostile person. Perhaps that is because you have been found out to be a liar about your information. The questions you ask have been answered already..look them up just like you looked up the information you just posted..and don't rely on your Uncle for info...he lies.. But just to answer your questions..The jews went to PALESTINE and formed, along with the British'c help, their state of Israel and started their long road of persecuting people that had never did them any harm THE PALESTINIANS. That's where the fuck they went... No they were not in some old ladies attic ..that's how your pitiful mind works. Aliens? get real..oh forget it..here I am talking to a complete idiot....

 

[woody54]

I am guessing you mean ref' March to June 1941 (Tobruk ?)

The British Commandos were first formed by the Army in June/July 1940
8 Commando, which was more commonly known as ‘Layforce’
after its commander, Captain Robert Laycock.

Seperately, other raiding Commandos were formed ,The Long Range Desert Group was formed by Ralph Bagnold in 1940 and played a major part in the Allies victory in North Africa in World War Two. By September 13th, 1940, the LRDG set up its first base at the Siwa Oasis , and formal operations commenced. To begin with, Bagnold’s new unit had been known as the Long Range Patrol Group.

The first unit of the SAS was made up of 66 men from Layforce and it included seven officers, July 1941 . ( General Sir Claude Auchinleck, C-in-C Middle East, authorised the formation of L Detachment, Special Air Service Brigade. Stirling, who had already served with the Commandos of 'Layforce', was promoted to Captain and allowed to recruit six officers and sixty other ranks from the remnants of Layforce. The name was part of a deception plan to convince the Germans a brigade of airborne troops had arrived in Egypt.)
The detachment set up camp at Kabrit near the Suez Canal and began training. Its first "raid" was on a nearby New Zealand camp to steal much-needed supplies. The first SAS raid against the German and Italian forces in Libya was to coincide with the offensive to relieve Tobruk, Operation Crusader, in November 1941.)

The 'Commandos' first large scale mission was to capture Pantelleria. On 12th December 1940, the operation was cancelled
That assembly of fighting men was known as 'Layforce', after its C.O., Robert Laycock.
From the ashes of 'Layforce' was formed - the Middle East Commando. Formed in October 1941, this new group included men from No 3 Troop, 11th (Scottish) Commando.
No 5 Commando formation in July 1940 , disbandment in January 1947. In October 1940, a few months after recruitment started, 5 and 6 Commandos were absorbed into 5 Special Service Battalion which was based at Helensburgh in west central Scotland. The commanding officer was Lt-Colonel T. Featherstonhaugh of the King's Royal Rifle Company.

a further reorganization took place after the Lofoten Islands operations in mid-March 1941. No.5 Special Service Battalion became No.5 Commando under Lt-Colonel W.S.S. Sanguinetti of the Hampshire Regiment, based at Barrhead, but shortly to move to Falmouth.

The early Commando units were formed in the first few weeks of July 1940. They were raised in different parts of Britain mainly from Army volunteers. Nos. 3 and 4 Commandos were formed from Southern Command, Nos. 5 and 6 from Western Command, No. 7 from Eastern Command, No. 8 mainly from the London District and the Household Division and Nos. 9 and 11 from Scottish Command. On the 17th of July 1940.

Check your dates.




"In August 1940, six Britons were captured in North Africa operating behind the lines, Hitler ordered their execution".
(David Irving HITLER’S WAR Africa and Stalingrad.. That one seemed an appropriate starting point.)
He also cites the Raid on Sark, as the trigger for the formal Execution Order, not sure about that though.

Operation Musketoon was an Anglo-Norwegian raid against a German-held Generator Station at Glomfjord, Norway in September, 1942
they were taken to Sachsenhausen detention camp and executed, the first victims of Hitler's Commando Order.
†Captain Graeme. D Black MC - born 9th May, 1911, in Dresden, Ontario
†Captain Joseph. B J Houghton MC - born 13th June, 1911, at Bromborough
†L./Sgt. William Chudley (explosives) - born 10th May, 1922, at Exeter
†Rflm. Eric Curtis (explosives)
†Pte. Reginald Makeham - born 28th January, 1914, at Ipswich
†Cpl. Miller Smith - born 2nd November, 1915, at Middlesbrough
†Rflm. Cyril Abram - born 20th August, 1922, in London
†Cpl. Erling M Djupdraet
† = executed October 30th, 1942

After an operation against the Tirpitz Hitler ordered a twenty-year-old seaman who had been shot through the legs by his Norwegian captors, to be executed.

Three weeks later the same fate met the fourteen British survivors of a commando-style attack launched on a hydroelectric power station in Norway : the first glider had crashed into the sea, killing all aboard ; the second had crashed with its towing aircraft into a hillside. The Norwegian police rounded up the survivors. The Germans found extensive sabotage equipment in the wreckage. In accordance with the new Commando Order, all fourteen were shot before darkness fell.

Operation Frankton.Bordeaux Harbour....... 7/12 December 1942......
Wallace & Ewart, (Coalfish), Laver & Mills (Crayfish) and MacKinnan & Conway (Cuttlefish) were executed under Hitler's order on Commandos.

On 2 November 1943 three British commandos captured at Pascara, Italy, were given "special treatment" (Sonderbehandelt), which meant death. What happened to the remaining nine who were wounded and in the hospital is not known, however it is likely that they too were similarly disposed of.

During the night of l9th-Nov, 1942, a British freight glider crashed near Egersund, in Norway. The glider carried a British Commando Unit of 17 men, of whom three were apparently killed in the crash. All were in British uniform. Fourteen survivors were executed in accordance with the Hitler Order, the evening of 20th November

Operation Freshman 19 November 1942...........
20 soldiers (11 from one glider and 9 from the other) were killed by the Germans following the issuing of the Commando Order by Hitler in October 1942. 11 were taken to a German army camp at Slettbo and shot, 5 were taken to a German concentration camp at Grini, near Oslo. These five were kept at the concentration camp until their execution by firing squad on 18 January 1943.

Operation Houndsmith....
the Germans executed 24 SAS soldiers and a US Army Air Force pilot.

And not just British forces....
Waffen-SS soldiers executed American POWs at Malmedy, during the Battle of the Bulge

In February 1945, 350 American POWs captured earlier at the Battle of the Bulge or elsewhere in Europe were singled out by the Nazis because they were Jews or were thought to resemble Jews. They were transported in cattle cars to Berga, a concentration camp in eastern Germany, and put to work as slave laborers, mining tunnels for a planned underground synthetic-fuel factory. Starved and brutalized, the GIs were denied their rights as prisoners of war, their ordeal culminating in a death march that was halted by liberation near the Czech border. Twenty percent of these soldiers–more than seventy of them–perished.
Morton Goldstein, a garrulous GI from New Jersey, shot dead by the Nazi in charge of the American prisoners .

This is a sample, simply to query your 'one execution event theory' , and your claim ref' one concentration camp.. Perhaps you need to broaden your much self-vaunted reading and research.





Bergen Belsen,The first units to formally enter the camp. in a van with a loudspeaker, were from the 14 Amplifier Unit, Intelligence Corps and 63rd Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery. Two days later, on April 17, 1945, British Medical units arrived.

Just as a caveat to that, neither unit would have been allowed anywhere near that camp,whether Waffen SS guards were there or not, until combat units had recon'd it and made some efforts to 'secure' it. Non-combatant/Intelligence units would not have been allowed into such an exposed , avoidable, situation , unless they themsleves were infact combat troops , or interspersed with a significant presence of experienced combat troops.. I think you might be mixing up your preferred PR with common sense that does sometimes have a place in military SOP.



That seems a little rich coming from you. Even the thread's 'preferred' historian contradicts you.

Oh....The tattoo wrist moment you enjoyed...Please excuse my anatomical innacuracy in saying wrist when perhaps forearm might well have been empirically far more accurate. I don't think too many people will regard my one to two inch generalisation as solid grounds to dismiss the Holocaust. I am certain that the tattoos were placed in the exact same, measured location every time they were applied. After all, the war , depended on it.

Sadly, all this is a waste of breath.
Tablets of stone would be pointless.
If some people bumped into a speaking burning bush, they would start screaming about Jewish, ventriloquist, arsonists.

Before I forget...Where the fuck did all those Jews etc, that you say didn't get killed, get to. Where the fuck did they go.
Bet they were all hiding in some old lady's attic.
Bloody hell, that must be a big house.
Hang on,
you probably know they were really Aliens , that the Jew thing is just another layer of the conspirator's front, and they just got bored to buggery and went home,somewhere, over the Rainbow.

Jut how does a diatribe on British Commandos in any way validate the Holocaust? I understand your urge to impress us with your details but the subject matter is irrelevant in this thread. Pity you weren't so effusive on your support of facts for the Holohoax.

Where did all the Jews go?

Well, start with the official figures, you can even research on the internet. There are records for before and after the war for regions and countries.
When you find them, there is a startling anomoly for you because there is no demographic loss but a gain, which one could expect after 6 years.
I think the conclusion will be self evident unless of course , sympathy for Jews led to over 6 million conversions in the war period.

Religious fantasy and reality have been melded by post war Zionist lies, protected in a major way by Zionist hit squads who went round Europe executing senior Germans most likely because they were the only ones who could invalidate Holocaust propaganda with direct testimony.

I challenge you to abandon your slurs and sneering criticism and found your Holocaust remarks to the type of detail you have just proven you can provide when the evidence presents itself and stop this silly rhetorical nonsense. So come on, show your tablets of stone. What is your substantive evidence?

As a point of interest, it was the British in First World War anti German propaganda, who followed up the "Germans eat babies" lies , with another about Germany having Cadaver factories that recycled humans commercially.
Mmmm, Skin lamps, Jew soap , and industrialised defiling of humanity - hardly original concepts in the lying game but wonderful propaganda to swing world opinion in favour of a Jewish nation.
Its just sad they replanted the Nazism under the Star of David.

 

[krastner]

Woody I have been posting on another forum http://zionismontheweb.org. Man these people can sure say something and not answer your question. The idea is...you will accept what we say and that's it..

 

[Shamanskiss]

Simple enough to answer

Jut how does a diatribe on British Commandos in any way validate the Holocaust? I understand your urge to impress us with your details but the subject matter is irrelevant in this thread. Pity you weren't so effusive on your support of facts for the Holohoax..

You, and your 'the Nazi's were misunderstood brigade', persist in stating your 'facts' as though they are Gospel. Someone posts anything that contradicts your apologist party line, and they're accused of either lying,
being naieve, or being dense.

So, every time one your teams facts gets kicked into touch, it demonstrates just how reliable your painstaking research is likely to be. You use the bits that suit you. You don't even do a thorough job of reading the stuff by your preferred sources.

Rather like your Maths really. There was a lot of waffle about how the claimed numbers couldn't be achieved by the limited number of camps.
Whilst, there were six main deathcamps, I think starting with Treblinka in 1940
( haven't actually checked that) they were all up and running by '42.
However , if you take into account there were infact over a 1000 camps, sub-camps, and kommandos involved in processing undesirables and politicals.
The numbers become a lot less daunting in terms of being 'doable'.
Even if we stick with just six camps, running for 3 years( and thats being charitable to your cause) , and 6mill as a killrate (so is that).I make that a killrate of just over 915 a day for each camp.
Call it 39 an hour , 78 jews /hr if they were unionised and only worked a 12 hour day.
No one would claim that figure was unattainable, no one in their right mind that is. Those numbers could have even been shot, with ease. Not even one a minute if you have two shooters working, and a shot takes less than a second..

Factor in an execution rate , starvation rate, death by brutality, torture,, disease , even so called research, and the numbers could go geometric.

Validating the holocaust ? I made a point that I had known , spoken with, individuals who had shared the experience, or witnessed aspects of it. Individuals who are not all Jewish, having no zionist beliefs , or even sympathies..One of your team tried to imply this was a lie. With the arrogance of some swaggering camp bully he implied a relative of mine was a liar. He then attempted to use information that was, if I am kind, well, frankly, bollocks, to try and contradict a man who was part of the History being misrepresented in his posts.The information he used to bolster his tantrum was shoddy, and innacurate, and even worse naieve in the extreme.
But I suspect that applies to more than his efforts.

Did he really believe that any Commander would let squads of Medics go tabbing willy-nilly,into a camp possibly manned by suddenly terrified Waffen SS. Unbelievable. Does he really believe a camp was liberated by strolling through a main gate and finding a few huts. Neuengamme, liberated May '45, had 96 sub-camps, as well as the main one.. Many of the camps were found by accident, with advance and recon units stumbling on them, or at times following the stench.

Again, where did they go ?. I had a lecturer at University. A Jew, yes. He also spent the war as a member of SOE/OSS derived units. Much of his war was spent in occupied Europe working with resistance cells, including several in Germany. He had lost his entire family, a large extended family. Over 50 people. He was the only one left. He survived because he defied his father and came to England to fight back. If he had remained at the Sorbonne he would probably have died too. Following your post, why didn't his family increase in numbers ? Why were they all gone, without trace, or even a marker.
This man was , ironically, not a religious man, nor was he a zionist. Born a jew, he had become an atheist.

You see, most of your posts will only find credibility with people who have no direct experience, or contacts with/of the kind of people I have mentioned. They, your believers, are the ones who might base everything on TV dinner facts, prejudice-friendly sources, and ever populist conspiracy-culture.


One day , no-doubt, there will be people posting about how the mass graves
across Kosovo were exaggerated and fabricated , maybe they will insist that
Slobodan Milosevic had no knowledge of them, etc etc. Maybe my nephew will post that his uncle was there, saw some of them whilst on some of those odd little 'working package-tours' he tended to poddle off on. He might even post about how the sites had to be secured and guarded, even defended, before Medics' and Forensics' , and even Archeologists, could work the sites in some kind of safety. Some bunch of pillocks will probably explain in great detail how it was all exaggerated, and his uncle was a little fibber.
That would almost be a splendid irony...
Well, no it wouldn't really....
But some will know what I am talking about.

 

[krastner]

You, and your 'the Nazi's were misunderstood brigade', persist in stating your 'facts' as though they are Gospel. Someone posts anything that contradicts your apologist party line, and they're accused of either lying,
being naieve, or being dense.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have ran across your type of thinking before. Perhaps I should call it you lack of thinking..All you have is to toe the Zoinist line. Isn't that right. Why don't you at least be honest about who you are. Defend your position by saying who you really are , A zionist jew. Ok?

 

[unculbact]

I am guessing you mean ref' March to June 1941 (Tobruk ?)

The British Commandos were first formed by the Army in June/July 1940
8 Commando, which was more commonly known as ‘Layforce’
after its commander, Captain Robert Laycock.

Seperately, other raiding Commandos were formed ,The Long Range Desert Group was formed by Ralph Bagnold in 1940 and played a major part in the Allies victory in North Africa in World War Two.

The first unit of the SAS was made up of 66 men from Layforce and it included seven officers, July 1941

Darn. I'd forgotten about LayForce. But, I was right, the SAS was not formed until after Rommel's first offensive. I remembered the SAS had been formed after Wavell had been sacked, in part because of his resistance to creative solutions, and that the new commander, Auchinleck, had encouraged their formation.

And I didn't have a "one-execution event" theory. Look back at my post, I said "as far as I know". And in your essay, many of the executions have nothing to do with commandos. The Americans murdered near Stavelot by Kampfgruppe Pieper were from a regular field artillery observation battalion.

And I clearly said that the commando's captured IN FRANCE were sent to Sachsenhausen, referring to a failed commando raid on Rommel's HQ in 1944, which led to one of the commando's being personally interviewed by Rommel (Well recounted in THE TRAIL OF THE FOX, by David Irving - Irving's interview with the commando in question is another of his unique, one-of-a-kind historical coups).

The rest of the commando history is obviously well-researched, and by the way, appreciated, but also off topic, and has nothing to do with the 1,200 British POW's who found themselves at Monowitz, who I've been trying to find out more about.

Turns out that the camp they were in was called Stalag VIII-B, and, since another article tells me about a transport from Italy consisting of Brits captured at Gazala in 1942, that was also sent there, it may be that there were some commando's in the group.

But still not quite on topic. The whole commando thing got started with this:

From two men. brothers , in the village I grew up in , who were not even jews, but had a number tattoo'd on the forearms because they were British commandos, captured by the Germans, and it was decided that Hitler's blanket death penalty might be amusingly fulfilled by sending them to a concentration camp.

As I noted earlier with the account from the Auschwitz State Museum, the only place anybody was ever tattooed was Auschwitz or Birkenau, and the 1,200 British POW's at Stalag VIII-B were not tattooed. (more about them later, by the way, turns out there's more to this story).

This leads one to question:

1. What concentration camp were your commando friends in?

2. Where did they get the tattoos?

Fair questions in more sense than one. After all, if they WERE tattooed by the Nazi's, that makes their story historically unique, and therefore, it's important to nail down what camp this happened at.

----------------------------------
I'm pleased to see that you've actually read HITLER'S WAR. Finally, somebody who's actually read David Irving.

I have to wonder why you're badmouthing him, since you find him every bit as useful as I do.

Woody, Kastner, thanks for the help, but I can take care of myself. I had something on Bergen-Belsen, but wanted to look at Shaman's latest post first. Coming up soon, be prepared for some fun.

 

[krastner]

Woody, Kastner, thanks for the help, but I can take care of myself. I had something on Bergen-Belsen, but wanted to look at Shaman's latest post first. Coming up soon, be prepared for some fun.[/QUOTE]


Know you can guy....

 

[unculbact]

Whilst, there were six main deathcamps, I think starting with Treblinka in 1940

The allegations are it began with Chelmno, in December of 1941, followed a week later by a small group of Russian POW's at Auschwitz. According to the Orthodox version of the Holocaust myth, the German plan was to resettle Europe's Jews in Madagascar (a plan Poland researched in the 1930's). Talks with France collapsed, and supposedly, in October of 1941, an order (never found) was given to exterminate the Jews instead.

And, there are now only five main death camps. Only in recent years has it been admitted that in the four years Majdanek was in operation, only 300,000 people were ever sent there (The Russians claimed 4 million dead there alone). The death toll at Majdanek, an unsanitary shithole that was easily the most primitive of the camps built, is, as of this year, down to 58,000 and dropping fast. Very few are believed to be Jews, the camp, actually in the city limits of Lublin, was set up for - well, the Germans never did decide what they wanted to do with it. Polish Home Army, common criminals, politicals were sent there, but were transferred, OR RELEASED, just as fast as they came in. No sewage system was set up there until near the end, which led to a terrible death rate from disease, but as even a believer like Jean-Claude Pressec has noted, what they pass off as gas chambers on the tour there are laughable. There were no gas chambers there.

When the Russians overan it, they found Polish Home Army prisoners there, as well as wounded members of the Vlasov Army, Russian's who volunteered to fight for the Germans, Majdanek had become a hospital camp for them. Both groups were marched off to the Gulag, which explains why the Russians printed so much propaganda about it. Majdanek is no longer considered an extermination camp by either side.

they were all up and running by '42.

And in the case of the Reinhardt camps, all shut down by the fall of 1942, though there's an allegation that Chelmno was briefly reopened in 1944. Of the four Reinhardt camps, only Chelmno is alleged to have opened in 1941, in December. The other three, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Belzec, are alleged to have operated only from the spring of 1942 until the fall of 1942. Auschwitz is alleged to have had inconsistent executions through the spring of 1942, at which point everyone agrees that Krema I there was converted into an air raid shelter. Birkenau allegedly didn't open for business until May of 1943, when Krema II became operational.

I had a lecturer at University. A Jew, yes... If he had remained at the Sorbonne he would probably have died too.

Unlikely. Of some 350,000 Jews in France, 78,000 of them were deported. The other 272,000 were left in peace. The only French Jews deported were those with non-French citizenship, based on their passports, and if you've read the testimony of Marie-Claude Vaillant-Couturier or Macha Speter, thousands of those deportees survived.

But on to Bergen-Belsen

Did he really believe that any Commander would let squads of Medics go tabbing willy-nilly,into a camp possibly manned by suddenly terrified Waffen SS.

Bergen-Belsen, and an area of 48 square kilometers around it, was surrendered days in advance. As you can see below, the surrender terms were finalized on April 12, three days before any Brits arrived there.

(Embarrasing to point this out) Waffen-SS were front line troops. There were no Waffen-SS at Bergen-Belsen. The SS who volunteered to stay at Bergen-Belsen to deal with the typhus epidemic were regular SS, some of them women.

All quotes from this source. Quotes in brackets are mine.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/BergenBelsen05.html

"Negotiations for the transfer of the Bergen-Belsen camp to the control of the British Army took several days. On the night of April 12, 1945, a cease-fire was signed between the local German Military Commander and the British Chief of Staff, Brigadier General Taylor-Balfour, according to Eberhard Kolb in his book, "Bergen-Belsen from 1943 to 1945." An area of 48 square kilometers around Bergen-Belsen was declared a neutral zone. The neutral zone was 8 kilometers long and 6 kilometers wide. Until British troops could take over, the agreement [Hammered out with, among others, Kommandant Kramer] specified that the camp would be guarded by a unit of Hungarian soldiers and soldiers from the German Wehrmacht (the regular army as opposed to the SS). They were assured that they would be allowed free return passage to the German lines within six days after the British arrived. The SS soldiers who made up the staff of the camp were to remain at their posts and carry on their duties until the British arrived to take over [Kramer volunteered his entire staff, a supreme act of courage for which he's never gotten any credit]. There was no specific stipulation in the agreement about what their fate would be, according to Eberhard Kolb.

The first units to formally enter the camp. in a van with a loudspeaker, were from the 14 Amplifier Unit, Intelligence Corps and 63rd Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery.

Entered it, but didn't liberate it. They did arrest Kommandant Kramer, but didn't liberate it. Although, as you can see, they keep using the word "liberation" in the text that follows, it's obviously not true. The loudspeaker unit arrived on April 15. Germans, assisted by Hungarian troops, were in charge until April 17, when the medical units arrived.

Brackets are my notes.

According to Eberhard Kolb, there were "ferocious scenes" on the day of the liberation [this would be the 15th] and the following night [the 16th, continuing into the 17th]. Some of the prisoners who had only arrived on the 8th of April took the opportunity to plunder the kitchen and food stocks. The British reported later that there was no food in the camp. The Wehrmacht soldiers, who had been assigned to guard the camp during the transition, shot into the mob and killed numerous people.

As you can see, they were still under authority of the German troops. And - HEY! If the prisoners had food stocks to plunder, why did the British report there was no food in the camp?

"Two days later, on April 17, 1945, British Medical units arrived. The first thing they did was to set up a hospital area in the barracks of the Germany Army training camp nearby. Also on that date, the British arrested the entire personnel of the SS Commandant's office, the 50 men and 30 women who had voluntarily stayed behind to help the British manage the catastrophe."

Then, and only then did the camp enter what can loosely be called British control, if you want to use that word, considering the riots, lootings, and other mayhem that followed for some weeks, after the external authority that the Germans imposed was gone and law and order disappeared.

Just as a caveat to that, neither unit would have been allowed anywhere near that camp,whether Waffen SS guards were there or not, until combat units had recon'd it and made some efforts to 'secure' it. Non-combatant/Intelligence units would not have been allowed into such an exposed , avoidable, situation , unless they themsleves were infact combat troops , or interspersed with a significant presence of experienced combat troops..

As previously noted, Bergen-Belsen's surrender had been negotiated days before, and a truce was in effect for 48 square kilometers around it. And again, the guards were not Waffen-SS. In fact, the only SS there was a previously arranged group of eighty brave souls who volunteered to stay at their posts, in spite of what they knew was coming.

the 14 Amplifier Unit, Intelligence Corps and 63rd Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery.

The AT unit was drawn from the British 7th Armored Division, the Amplifier Unit from Intelligence Corps, which would have been attached to the 7th from army level. As you know, commando's are not attached to tank divisions, in fact, they are not attached to regular units at all. Again, there was no need for British special forces of any kind to scout out the camp. Negotiations for it's surrender had been going on for some time, with a complete appraisal of the situation there.

"Brigadier Llewelyn Glyn-Hughes, a medical officer, was in command of the relief operation. The British had known that there were terrible epidemics in the camp, and that this was the main reason the camp had been surrendered, but they were unprepared for the gruesome sight of the dead bodies, and it came as an enormous shock to them."

Before I forget...Where the fuck did all those Jews etc, that you say didn't get killed, get to. Where the fuck did they go.

As the article points out, the ones at Bergen-Belsen - where most of the people they found had recently been VOLUNTARILY transferred from Auschwitz, they had been given the choice to go to Germany or wait for the Russians - anyway, as it says, many of them started wandering right back home, looting the countryside as they went. Unregistered and uncounted. Others stayed at the DP camp that was set up in the town of Bergen after concentration camp itself was burned on May 24th. There, they were joined by thousands of others, mixing, coming, going, some listening to the Zionist agitators who wanted them to go to Palestine, others holding out to live in the west. Multiply that confusion with the other DP camps - you've heard of those, right? - and you can see where any prisoner census is going.

Bet they were all hiding in some old lady's attic.

Read the article. The British ordered all German citizens out of both Bergen and Belsen, and turned the towns over to the DP's, who did indeed hide people from the British, lest they be repatriated back to the East. Yes, some, probably not very many, but some of them were hiding in some old lady's attic.

 

[woody54]

You, and your 'the Nazi's were misunderstood brigade', persist in stating your 'facts' as though they are Gospel. Someone posts anything that contradicts your apologist party line, and they're accused of either lying,
being naieve, or being dense.

So, every time one your teams facts gets kicked into touch, it demonstrates just how reliable your painstaking research is likely to be. You use the bits that suit you. You don't even do a thorough job of reading the stuff by your preferred sources.

Rather like your Maths really. There was a lot of waffle about how the claimed numbers couldn't be achieved by the limited number of camps.
Whilst, there were six main deathcamps, I think starting with Treblinka in 1940
( haven't actually checked that) they were all up and running by '42.
However , if you take into account there were infact over a 1000 camps, sub-camps, and kommandos involved in processing undesirables and politicals.
The numbers become a lot less daunting in terms of being 'doable'.
Even if we stick with just six camps, running for 3 years( and thats being charitable to your cause) , and 6mill as a killrate (so is that).I make that a killrate of just over 915 a day for each camp.
Call it 39 an hour , 78 jews /hr if they were unionised and only worked a 12 hour day.
No one would claim that figure was unattainable, no one in their right mind that is. Those numbers could have even been shot, with ease. Not even one a minute if you have two shooters working, and a shot takes less than a second..

Factor in an execution rate , starvation rate, death by brutality, torture,, disease , even so called research, and the numbers could go geometric.

Validating the holocaust ? I made a point that I had known , spoken with, individuals who had shared the experience, or witnessed aspects of it. Individuals who are not all Jewish, having no zionist beliefs , or even sympathies..One of your team tried to imply this was a lie. With the arrogance of some swaggering camp bully he implied a relative of mine was a liar. He then attempted to use information that was, if I am kind, well, frankly, bollocks, to try and contradict a man who was part of the History being misrepresented in his posts.The information he used to bolster his tantrum was shoddy, and innacurate, and even worse naieve in the extreme.
But I suspect that applies to more than his efforts.

Did he really believe that any Commander would let squads of Medics go tabbing willy-nilly,into a camp possibly manned by suddenly terrified Waffen SS. Unbelievable. Does he really believe a camp was liberated by strolling through a main gate and finding a few huts. Neuengamme, liberated May '45, had 96 sub-camps, as well as the main one.. Many of the camps were found by accident, with advance and recon units stumbling on them, or at times following the stench.

Again, where did they go ?. I had a lecturer at University. A Jew, yes. He also spent the war as a member of SOE/OSS derived units. Much of his war was spent in occupied Europe working with resistance cells, including several in Germany. He had lost his entire family, a large extended family. Over 50 people. He was the only one left. He survived because he defied his father and came to England to fight back. If he had remained at the Sorbonne he would probably have died too. Following your post, why didn't his family increase in numbers ? Why were they all gone, without trace, or even a marker.
This man was , ironically, not a religious man, nor was he a zionist. Born a jew, he had become an atheist.

You see, most of your posts will only find credibility with people who have no direct experience, or contacts with/of the kind of people I have mentioned. They, your believers, are the ones who might base everything on TV dinner facts, prejudice-friendly sources, and ever populist conspiracy-culture.


One day , no-doubt, there will be people posting about how the mass graves
across Kosovo were exaggerated and fabricated , maybe they will insist that
Slobodan Milosevic had no knowledge of them, etc etc. Maybe my nephew will post that his uncle was there, saw some of them whilst on some of those odd little 'working package-tours' he tended to poddle off on. He might even post about how the sites had to be secured and guarded, even defended, before Medics' and Forensics' , and even Archeologists, could work the sites in some kind of safety. Some bunch of pillocks will probably explain in great detail how it was all exaggerated, and his uncle was a little fibber.
That would almost be a splendid irony...
Well, no it wouldn't really....
But some will know what I am talking about.

The irony here is you only made your hole deeper.

Let me just remind you, I have direct experience with Polish camps through my fathers expeince in one. I know what it was and what happened there.
Until quite recently I had official postcards from the camp from him but sadly they have been lost to me. The Camp designation was similar to the format quoted by Unculbact but I cant confirm the last two identifiers from memory.

Ah yes, I notice you have carefully sidestepped the minefield of proving a genocidal gassing industry by inferring now they were shot. Diversion is a standard Holocaust protection when there is no ammunition to fire back.

In practical terms, putting yourself in charge of that operation, explain how you dispose of 915 bodies a day at each camp for three years without making any documentary report to your superiors or seek supplies in order to execute your programme.... and it is all in total secret, even from local inhabitants under wartime conditions.
Being a military person yourself, you know their bureaucracy and how stupid it makes your story look. The Allies have 600 tonnes of documents that say nothing of your scheme, other than the special execution squads that followed the frontline expansion through the East.

I have already alluded to the demographic indicator that your story is just a wild guess and here you are supporting it with more wild speculation that doesnt even follow the formal Holohoax dogma.

If you factor in the acknowledgement of the Red Cross that non execution deaths figured around 300,000 in the camps, and this was derived by visits and records observed, where did your 915 a day/per camp come from?
Perhaps it is you that alludes to spaceships landing full of Jews to feed to the gas chambers.

I would be being kind to point out that your credibility is a bit thin, based on the veracity of your evidence so far. Come on, time for your to expose your "tablets of stone" and put us out of our misery.

Its interesting your mention other genocides.
Saddam murdered over 300,000 of his people, so the Zionists told us to promote their war in Iraq. Despite years of searching, they have only found about 30,000 that date back to the period after Gulf1 when George Bush told the people of Iraq to rise up, then watched while Saddam purged the dissenters. Show me the bodies! and the same goes for the Concentration Camps output. 6 million people, even after cremation would leave bone and teeth that are not destroyed so the amount of evidence available should be significany "somewhere" mixed with enormous amounts of ash. Why has no-one ever looked for those evidence trails to nail down the Zionist story? Could it be you cant find a fantasy? The Zionists never found one to convict Zundel.

Political lying is the standard basis on which the public are made to agree with change or something undesirable. Its not like history isnt full of it.
Just look at the head in the sand denial now existing about 9/11 because the consequences that new facts bring to light, are just beyond copmprehension that there could be a top level conspiracy to manipulate the public.

But hey, Building 7 was deliberately "pulled" according to the owner. Just tell me when he organised the demolition experts to lay charges to drop it in its ownfootprint. This specialist job can take weeks , yet we are led to believe people entered a burning building and performed a top rate demolition job in a window of a few hours. Either we are being conned or the regular demolition indusry is a buch of ripoffs.
So this feature is an example of distortion and the willingness of people to accept the highly questionable as truth and never ever think about again as as a con, to the point of calling educated questioers, nutcases and conspiracy theorists. Gosh, we have we heard that before.

 

[krastner]

During my years in Bavaria I had the opportunity to talk to many that were there during the war...They were mostly my age...The Germans went to war with Poland and England only to get a little payback for the millions of German deaths that the treaty of Versailles caused Germany. Germany had nothing against the Americans and were surprised when the Roosevelt declared war against them.

Germany only wanted France as a stepping off place for England...They wanted English blood in the worst way...They might get it yet...Most German soldiers felt that he was doing right by his country when he took Poland and other countries..Remember the German soldier was the best ever seen in this century...their leadership had a lot to be desired...hey don't the US have a similar problem today?

 

[krastner]

The irony here is you only made your hole deeper.


Saddam murdered over 300,000 of his people,



Say isn't that the figure that some Arab sources place the civilian casualties caused by bush's war...And I thought he was going there to avenge those deaths not to rack up more...



But hey, Building 7 was deliberately "pulled" according to the owner. Just tell me when he organised the demolition experts to lay charges to drop it in its ownfootprint. This specialist job can take weeks , yet we are led to believe people entered a burning building and performed a top rate demolition job in a window of a few hours. Either we are being conned or the regular demolition indusry is a buch of ripoffs.
So this feature is an example of distortion and the willingness of people to accept the highly questionable as truth and never ever think about again as as a con, to the point of calling educated questioers, nutcases and conspiracy theorists. Gosh, we have we heard that before.

That would mean that he had the charges placed long before 9/11 and that the workers in the building were in a building that was rigged to pull long before it happened...All three buildings.....of course you can believe the official version of how angles flew down from heaven and placed them in the blink of an eye.... That is the official version..it sounds like it...

 

[Shamanskiss]

Oh what a beautiful morning.......

You, and your 'the Nazi's were misunderstood brigade', persist in stating your 'facts' as though they are Gospel. Someone posts anything that contradicts your apologist party line, and they're accused of either lying,
being naieve, or being dense.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have ran across your type of thinking before. Perhaps I should call it you lack of thinking..All you have is to toe the Zoinist line. Isn't that right. Why don't you at least be honest about who you are. Defend your position by saying who you really are , A zionist jew. Ok?

Thankyou Krastner...
I think your post sums it all up.
Didn't you forget to slip an 'untermenschen' , or at least a 'dirty juden' in there some where.
FYI...I was born in Ireland, Catholic father, Protestant Mother, grew up here there and everywhere, 'army brat'. I have several other bits and bobs in my ancestry, but have never detected any forbear with any Jewish heritage, and we can track the tree back a few hundred years. It wouldn't bother me in the least if there were, but, I can't claim there is.
I did read Ulysses, I think it was written by an Irish jew, but not sure.


My work is pretty much done here. It was never intended to convert you or your clones, that was never likely. But anyone reading the thread will at least see how your peoples 'watertight' claims tends to spring leaks.

And , finally, this post of yours K'..I couldn't have asked for better. A genuine Cindi Lauper moment....'True Colours'. or maybe a real 'blue on blue' moment.
Did you read it before you posted it ?
Even your mates must be sat there thinking you came over like some stereotype of a wannabe SS commandant.
Thankyou so much Krastner.
I hope I get this posted before your mates tell you to edit the damage out.

Before I forget, a couple of farewell items...

Tattoos....your side say ' only camps that ever tattooed was Auschwitz or Birkenau'. I have never actually researched that,but a swift search last night
came up with this

"from writings of...Ralph G. Rush, HQ Co, I&R, 355th Inf.
April 4,1945 a squad of the 355th HQ's Reconnaissance & Intelligence Platoon ..Ohrdruf Nord, a Nazi concentration camp, sub-camp to Buchenwald..
'I asked him how did I know that he was not SS---and he showed me his Tattoo--he was a Jew. '...

Now maybe my geography is as shaky as your history, but I thought Auschwitz was down around Krakow in Poland, and that Buchenwald was somewhere near Weimar in Germany. Hell, that must have been a damn long day for that tattooist, all that commuting.

I am also curious...The Germans were nothing if not efficient. Along with IBM they devised The five-digit Hollerith number system as was part of a custom punch card system, (devised by IBM), to track prisoners in Nazi concentration camps. This and its sorting machines were used in all camps. That is not generally debated.

Yet... What was the point of having that system of identification and tracking, if the subjects carried no permanent reference to their recorded number. The preferred system demands that the subject of its numeration bears a permanent record of their allocated code. That is simple logic.
A non permanent marker would have meant revolts or breakouts would have been harder to follow up. And , they did happen. Without permanent marking , everyday, 'keeping track' would have been a nightmare. The whole system would have been tossed off the rails every ten seconds, simply by inmates swapping, or destroying non-permanent cards or labels.
Auschwitz stopped using the Hollerith codings simply because they processed too many to enable the five number system to remain effective. They also processed a lot out to other camps like some kind of clearing house.
Mengele used a modified system of his own, more suited to his record keeping needs. This demonstrates a certain latitude in regard to tattooing , rather than supporting any hard and fast line on it where it ONLY happened in etc etc.

OK... a couple of other more self-indulgent circle jerk moments.

The German soldier was the finest blah blah blah.....'scuse me, they got their arses kicked. True, they had some of the best weaponry,many the basis for preferred designs still in use. But, only an eejit, claims that the finest soldiers in the world went and lost. And before you romp off on the myth of how the USA betrayed Germany and won the war, we held off for 3 years, on our own,whilst dealing with a far eastern theatre at the same time.
Even allowing for, what some might regard as , 'bollox ups' like Dunkirk, that doesn't say a lot for the opposition does it.

You can dance around all you want on that. When it comes to the facts the score sheet reads World Wars, 'Britain' 2 .. Germany 0.
The embarassing thing is the German soldier was damned brave, the real ones.
They were patriots, heroic, everything else anyone could expect from their fighting men. Sadly, for them,too many resources were channelled off into asshole ventures like the SS and concentration camps. The chubby little crazy guy spent too much time on dealing with his obsession with conspiracy theories and solutions to them. He allowed too many talented people to get tossed away for his lunatic political creed. He alienated vast numbers of people that might well otherwise have fought for him. He was fucking incompetent. We had our share of tossers, but compared to him, hellfire.
You know, a few more like Rommel and we might have had a real problem.
Oh yes, Hitler basically fucked Rommel over as well, didn't he.
Thousand Year Reich....my ass.
No, the finest soldiers were guys like my Uncle(remember LRDG etc...My father,who was amongst other things a first intake Commando {Hence, the history lesson. I was saving him for later.}, couple of Dad's cousins, Advance Recon' Motorcyclists, nominally listed as Despatch riders 'Scots Greys'. my Grandfather, Brigade of Gurkhas , more of my family, and a hell of a lot of other blokes, Brits, Americans, Nepali, Sihk, Free French, Commonwealth,ANZAC, Canadian,on and on, even some Germans ( they had a hell of an active anti-nazi resistance going you know) and oh yeah, Jews. My uncle had a few of them under his command, he said they were red-hot, seriously keen, dedicated as hell, and a nightmare if you were German...BUT, the finest was certainly not any piece of shit that worked at a concentration camp.

Britain and T'o Versaille...caused the second world war. Just another excuse for the chubby little headcase. Germany got treated like shit at Versaille. True.
Newsflash, they lost a war they were at least as much to blame for starting
( if not more, the Schlieffen Plan really didn't help, efficient, but way too over committed ,and bloody hard to stop once started). Europe/Allies were pissed with them, so they kicked Germany's arse. What would you expect.It was 1918/19, at the height of international competition for empire and supremacy.
Germany didn't go to war to create a situation where 'she' could be kind to the defeated allies. Again, they got it wrong, did it wrong, lost, and got shafted , just the way they would have shafted the other side if they'd won.
They were greedy for what other nations wouldn't let them have, they paid
crazy reparations,..Just the same as the allies would have done if the result had been the other way round.

SO....Have fun lads..

and thanks again Krastner...you really did put the predictable cherry on the cake with that one. How are your plans for invading Poland going ??.

I have ran across your type of thinking before. Defend your position by saying who you really are , A zionist jew. Ok?

This bit is so good I just had to post it twice.
perfect...priceless...predictable.!
and , pathetic.

 

[unculbact]

Tattoos....your side say ' only camps that ever tattooed was Auschwitz or Birkenau'. I have never actually researched that,but a swift search last night
came up with this

"from writings of...Ralph G. Rush, HQ Co, I&R, 355th Inf.
April 4,1945 a squad of the 355th HQ's Reconnaissance & Intelligence Platoon ..Ohrdruf Nord, a Nazi concentration camp, sub-camp to Buchenwald..
'I asked him how did I know that he was not SS---and he showed me his Tattoo--he was a Jew. '...

Now maybe my geography is as shaky as your history, but I thought Auschwitz was down around Krakow in Poland, and that Buchenwald was somewhere near Weimar in Germany. Hell, that must have been a damn long day for that tattooist, all that commuting.

Check the date on your own post. April 4, 1945.

Beginning in November of 1944, Jews and others from Auschwitz and Birkenau began arriving in the Western camps, evacuated from an advancing battlezone in accordance with the Geneva Convention (AND - of their own free will!)

If you again read that Belsen link, you'll see how the transports from those two camps kept arriving and arriving there, which is why so many people at Belsen had tattoos.

Same thing with Buchenwald, of which Ohrdruf was a subcamp. NIGHT is a pathetic book, but it does detail how Elie Weisel and his buddys got to Buchenwald from Auschwitz, complete with their tattoos. Christopher Burney and Paul Rassinier, prisoners at the time, have much to say about the sudden arrival of eastern Jews at Buchenwald. Both there and at Belsen, that's where the typhus came from.

If you tell me the number of the tattoo you reference above, I can check the Auschwitz Kalendrum (published by Danuta Czech in 1958) and tell you when that Jew arrived at Birkenau, and where he came from before he got there. She lists how the code references date of arrival and the transport they arrived on.

Auschwitz is actually in Silesia.

 

[Shamanskiss]

I didn't

Auschwitz is actually in Silesia.

realise Silesia had become an independent state,
I assumed it was still part of Poland, as c.1945.

 

[krastner]

Just lately the German courts have denied one of zionist Jews enemies a right to a fair trial by dragging Ernst Zundel's lawyer from court. The German courts have been infiltrated by zionist for the explicit purpose of being able to jail anyone that dares to question the holocaust. They have similar laws in Canada and have recently tried to have an "anti hate" law passed by congress in the US.

The zionist threaten anyone with imprisonment, I assume the death penalty is next, who dares question their claims. Now I may not be the smartest person in the world and most of my resistance to zionist Israeli claims rest on the philosophical idea of WYSIWYG. Only read what you see is what you get. I see the zionist Israeli Jew trying to cover something up. I see them cause Irving to be imprisoned in Austria and Zundel in Germany close to imprisonment.

I see them attempting to silence any kind of scientific investigation and proclaim that their version is correct. In the US , our misadministration has had a sort of "kangaroo" court in the matter of the 9/11 investigations. Just like in the Kennedy case back in 63. These entities do not want the trutth known. Before he died Gov. Connely of Texas said in private that the Warren comission was necessary to bring closure to the country after the assassignation of one of it's presidents.

So here we have crimes against a nation that have been squelched, by whome. Could the zionist in our government have that goal in mind for fear that if we investigate too closely these occurances, that we just might see how we have been lied to and "MIGHT" say " Hey how about that holocaust thing, if the stories we were given about 9/11 and Kennedy, then just maybe it's all wrong, these stories about the holocause."

What ever the reason that the zionist give , there has been a coverup. Conspiracy theories abound. Hell yes. That's only natural when something sounds fishy. My own reasoning is just why Israeli zionist Jews do protest so much. There must be a flaw in their story. A story that only came to light with the Nuremburg trials.

Allied troops went into camps and found dead, dieng, sick , emanciated survivors in camps all over Germany. I think if you looked you would have found the same thing evident with the whole of the German civilian population. What about the allied camps for german POWs at the end of the war, where millions of fornmer German combatants died of starvation, disease. If some invading force had went into germany and seen the way the German soldiers were treated they might assume some sort of sinister application to them.

I have never said that the Jew did not have a nice time in Germany during the war. I have never said that captured Russian soldiers had a nice time in Germany during the war. I have never said that Gypsies had a nice time in germany during ww2. I have only said that there has been some sort of coverup. A cover up that has led to one of the bloodiest eras in the middle east after up to and including the present.

What could be the reasoning behind this cover up...Why it's simple..The zionist Jew wants part of several countries. Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq to make their promised land a reality. They made Israel a reality with help from the "allies" and an outpouring of sympathy from the western world. Now they still do not have all that they want. In order to get the promised land they have to defeat all these Arab countries and they have the US as it's storm troopers to do it for them.

So what does all this mean to david Irving and Ernst Zundel..It means NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Soon the zionist will spread it's wed of deciet over the entire globe..Well that's a lie...people in asian countries will not believe them. People in Arab countries will not believe them.

The world today is about equally devided between "christians" and Muslims. So we can assume that only the "christian" [art of the world is taken in by the Holocaust lies, The Muslim part of the world will probably not be taken by it. So what then? Is the so called "christian" part of the world to go to war with the Muslim part of the world and totally eradicate them in order to appease the zionist Jew. I don't think the "christian" part of the world could do it.

Perhaps bush has promised his zionist masters that the US will die defending the Jewish claims of the holocaust. Well I don't think so. Right wing neo con "christians' have allowed him to go as far as he has so far. Isn't this the real reson for the rush to defeat Iran. Iran has spoken out about the holocause and they must be silenced before bush leaves office.

 

[woody54]

My work is pretty much done here. It was never intended to convert you or your clones, that was never likely. But anyone reading the thread will at least see how your peoples 'watertight' claims tends to spring leaks.

Hahaha, you are a sham.

You come here blustering about what the Holocaust myth says , yet you have not offered on valid piece of evidence to prove it. Where is your watertight case, Spo
ngebob. You had some tablets of stone you were so proud of, huh???

Yours is the standard of method of diversion and distraction with Dads war stories but go no way to establishing a programme of organised genocide.

It is a great defence that always puts the onus on the questioner to prove a negative. This is required because you have nothing, just rhetorical tales, many that have been exposed by the men who are now imprisoned for their daring to be honest.

No-one really expects converts in these discussions because those beliefs are deep in your psyche by training, but we can expect rational honesty to discuss clear cases of the myth drifting from truth.

It appears brainwashing prevents this too as evidenced by the more recent bluff of 9/11 which sealed Americas hatred for Muslims as much as Hitler sealed Jews hatred for Nazis. There is no going back to the good old days after that.

But when you are alone, just reflect on some of what has been presented and just ask who in the world benefited from the 1916 -1950 period the most. Therein lies the truth. Advance to 2006 and America is the heart of world Zionism, the major terrorist nation doing lapdog duty for the cause.
The media just wont publish material openly that disagrees with zionist propaganda, people who speak up are vilified and shouted down with invective rather than proof. Such control and censorship is not proof that the Holocaust happened in the official way. It is a cowardly deception from closer examination through which people are jailed for their thoughts. How any Wester culture national can stand by and watch that just shows the closet hypocrisy evident among the citizen considering the postulated basic rights and morals of the Western community.

You are another disappointment.

 

[Shamanskiss]

I suggest you edit your post'

Hahaha, you are a sham.

You come here blustering about what the Holocaust myth says , yet you have not offered on valid piece of evidence to prove it. Where is your watertight case, Spo
ngebob. You had some tablets of stone you were so proud of, huh???

Yours is the standard of method of diversion and distraction with Dads war stories but go no way to establishing a programme of organised genocide.

It is a great defence that always puts the onus on the questioner to prove a negative. This is required because you have nothing, just rhetorical tales, many that have been exposed by the men who are now imprisoned for their daring to be honest.

No-one really expects converts in these discussions because those beliefs are deep in your psyche by training, but we can expect rational honesty to discuss clear cases of the myth drifting from truth.

It appears brainwashing prevents this too as evidenced by the more recent bluff of 9/11 which sealed Americas hatred for Muslims as much as Hitler sealed Jews hatred for Nazis. There is no going back to the good old days after that.

But when you are alone, just reflect on some of what has been presented and just ask who in the world benefited from the 1916 -1950 period the most. Therein lies the truth. Advance to 2006 and America is the heart of world Zionism, the major terrorist nation doing lapdog duty for the cause.
The media just wont publish material openly that disagrees with zionist propaganda, people who speak up are vilified and shouted down with invective rather than proof. Such control and censorship is not proof that the Holocaust happened in the official way. It is a cowardly deception from closer examination through which people are jailed for their thoughts. How any Wester culture national can stand by and watch that just shows the closet hypocrisy evident among the citizen considering the postulated basic rights and morals of the Western community.

You are another disappointment.

because that is frickin gibberish.

I think you need to get some one to read the boards to you who can actually read, the current helper is making a mess of it, as you identify the wrong personalities, you obviously missed the point of several references, and allusions.

You need to get a grip of the fact grammar is not the old lady married to grandpa. A basic grasp of the area might help you express , well , something at least.

You are the one with the burden of proof. You are the one challenging a mainstream idea. So lose the bluster.
Embrace the fact it is you who needs to piss or get off the pot.
I admit, you face a tough problem, but it is nothing to do with the material ref' the holocaust.

The problem is you are a fucking idiot. Hitler would have had you processed as a 'retard'. Now , there's an irony....for you.

Sponge BOb....That about sums it up.. How old are you. You come across as a delayed adolescent. Everytime you face a challenge or a rebuttal, off you go foaming and spitting. Bet you would have made a great camp guard , all that power , and no poor sod able to say boo to your goose.

At least Uncul'thingy, ( can't remember the full name) keeps his facade together. If he had the balls to be honest he would have told you and Krastner to get a grip and shut the fuck up, because your blustering tantrums do all the work for your opposition.
You open your hissy-fitting mouth and converts swarm to the other side.
You are one of the best weapons holocaust believers could ever have.

The holocaust doesn't need people like me , it needs assholes like you. You have probably convinced more folks it is true than I have.
The best bit is you can't even see it.
That has to really 'do your empty little head in'.
( As an aside, just a pointer here. When the subject is something serious like the holocaust, don't ever start a post like this one with 'Hahahaha' stuff. It makes you come across as a pre-pubescent bimbo. People see that, see your posting style (or rather lack of), and immediately think, 'fuckwit.asshat,shit-for-brains', and I am afraid you don't
have the talent to bail your ass out of that early impression.
Take it or leave it, just advice, as you need all the help you can get.)
As for me being a disappointment, you're welcome. Your whole life has obviously been one such after another, if I had done anything more , I might have misled you into thinking you had a way out.

Basic thing that always seems to get away from your kind, is.... this zionist plot, been going on for 2000 years and more. Shouldn't we all be overpowered and absorbed, assimilated in the great zionist collective, oh 7 of 1.9. But, oh dear, we don't seem to be, becuase you wouldn't be spouting off if we were.
So, if all these, from your view, nasty zionistic jews have been doing all this highpower plotting and usurping, subverting and assimilating, according to your argument, they can't be all that good at it can they.
So what the fuck are you so worried about, what are you bleating like a frightened child about. If they haven't got the job done by now, there are two options.
1) They're crap at it.
2) They're really just not doing all that stuff you bang on about.

either way, only cliff seeking lemmings would worry about it.
So, relax my furry little rodent proxy.
I am sure the great Wizard will see you one day.

(by the way, if using sham was meant to pass for wit, dazzling repartee, you need to get one of your totenkopf buddies to shoot your script writer, you need to be embarassed, very embarassed.
Using a name like woody, you really cannot afford to go there.....
hey maybe that's why you start posts with 'ahHahaahaHA'.

 

[Lovelynice]

because that is frickin gibberish... (snip)

Interesting. Lots of insults and bluster, but not a scrap of decent argument.

 

[Lovelynice]

The German soldier was the finest blah blah blah.....'scuse me, they got their arses kicked. True, they had some of the best weaponry,many the basis for preferred designs still in use.

How outnumbered were they? Did you notice?

 

[Shamanskiss]

your question automatically requires

How outnumbered were they? Did you notice?

That you explain...

If that was actually an issue,

why the hell was the bossguy stupid enough to start an aggressive expansionist programme, when it had already been stated certain lines of neutrality must be respected. ?

why the hell did he misread world politics so badly ?

Incompetence.!

Think your challenges out more, the one you just posted reads as a babyish whinge and does no more than stress Hitlers lack of real talent and judgement.

But in answer to it....
1939...outbreak...Germany had 78 divisions.. GB had 9
1942 before entry of USA Germany had 261..GB had 38...

55 german divs in europe and n' africa facing less than 38 British and Commonwealth divisions ( we had significant numbers of troops tied up in the far east. I have deducted, in total, the some 171 divisions that germany eventually squandered against the russians in the east, despite the fact they were never committed in one go.) To Germany's european/north african strength you can add significant numbers of 89 Italian divisions, and some 40+ divisions from allies such as Bulgaria, Roumania, Slovakia, Hungary, as well as other waffen SS divisions raised in occupied countries such as the Baltic states,and some european collaborator troops.

There was even a 'Legion' of disaffected Englishmen under hitler's command. Bringing the total to around 184 G'divs against less than 38 GB/commonwealth .

Prior to Fritz/Directive 21/Barbarossa only some 34 German divisions were deployed in the eastern areas. That left 140 + deployed in N'Africa and Europe (mainly europe) ( add to that 101 divisions of Itallian and axis satellite troops ) against significantly less than 38 GB Commonwealth Divisions. ( Division strengths, men per division, were roughly the same/subject to same variations allies/axis. ).

America's entry into the war brought the numbers to around 139 Allied divisions ( divided between the European and Pacific theatres), against some 196 German division plus some 130 Italian, Rumanian,Hungarian,Collaborator Divisions.

Bearing in mind that the majority of the Allied offensive was fought against an enemy entrenched in pre-prepared, well established positions, militarily the allies should have looked for numerical superiority somewhere in the region of from between 5 and 10 ,to 1.
That was never anywhere near available.
On D-Day Allied numerical superiority was around 1.92 to 1...less than 2 to 1, ( including rear dropped airborn/commando/spec'for units). The demands of standard suppress, flank and enfillade tactics which were the available norm in that scenario would usually demand a numerical superiority of around that 10 to 1 figure. 5 to 1 , would be ,normally, seen as reckless as hell. The pre-set and ranged fire zones could account for that ratio easilly.The disadvantage of having to get onto, then off those beaches, against preprepared positions made the numbers landing vaguely ludicrous.
Even air and naval superiority shouldn't have made those odds workable.

In military statistical terms the Normandy landings should never have been allowed to go ahead. On paper, they hadn't a chance of being successful. Failure should have been the outcome. It wasn't. That's down to the quality of the men on the day.

(Just as an aside, I have visited those beaches. On one, Out of curiosity I loaded a pack to aroound 80k, went down into the waterline and ran the distance they would have had to before any kind of real cover was available. With the pack, being waterlogged, running on sand, and as a then fit bloke, I was buggered...and bloody glad I wasn't there that day in june. Doing that same thing whilst under withering fire seemed inconcievable ,even to a soldier. Maybe that should be 'especially to a soldier'.
I still do not know how they made themselves do it.

So, in answer to your rather silly, and badly thought out question, the Germans never were outnumbered. Add to that much German Armour, Mechanized Units, and especially small arms were superb. Put an Mp40/41 against a sten, the Mp' is a pedigree, the sten was a pig. German WW2 designs for small arms could well have been the basis/inspiration for pretty much every modern assault/battle rifle with an SLR/selective fire basis.

Hey, maybe their hearts just weren't in it . Maybe the average German soldier was just an average bloke who was more than a little sick of what he was supposed to be fighting for. Perhaps the greater awareness of things happening 'at home' equated to the so rapid loss of ground from D-Day onwards.

Like any army, The German army had its share of brave men. Sadly, for them, the regime they served was morally bankrupt, incompetent, and worst of all,
demonstrated a total disregard for the German people and fighting men. The Wehrmacht (proper) were betrayed, but not by any Jewish conspiracy. They were betrayed by the Hitler regime.

 

[krastner]

If it had not been fot the USA sticking it's nose where it didn't belong .....you British milktoast would be eating saurkraut and speaking German by now.

 

[Shamanskiss]

The same old bollox....

If it had not been fot the USA sticking it's nose where it didn't belong .....you British milktoast would be eating saurkraut and speaking German by now.

Really...
Then explain why the almighty third reich couldn't get the job done when it had three years+ of numerical superiority against lonely old Britain.. Just how long did it need.
Krastner you are such a whining loser.
The third reich was a third rate side show run by a deviant little psycho.
If anyone with a smidgen of talent, brains, and tactical nouse been in charge,
the German army might have stood a chance.
HellsBells, we get through the debacle of Dunkirk, are pretty much down to small arms and catapults, old 'Shickelgruber' has the chance to finish it.
What happens ?

Nothing...
Why ?
Because the dense arsehole has totally failed to plan for the necessary
barges and transports to facilitate the coup de grace.
Shit, he must have forgotten the Channel, eh ?

Bloody hell Krastner, we got significant numbers of troops back across the channel in fucking pleasure boats, under heavy fire from minute one, you Moron. Your godhead can't manage to get a few regiments over it when he still has significant naval and air forces,as well as the most mechanised army in the world at that time, and with no-one shooting at him.

And as for the Americans sticking their nose in, a lot of Americans, judging from the outcome, were probably wondering what the fuck was taking so long in getting involved. There were significant numbers of Americans already fighting the reich well before Pearl'.

One of the most common ways was to wander up to Niagara, cross the border and enlist in the Canadian forces.

Did you say Milktoast ?

I am not sure you should be so nasty, disrespectful and and dismissive of the German as a fighting man. After all, those you call 'MIlktoasts' fought them to a standstill, then fucked Hitler where he breathed.
You really are a silly little man aren't you, and obviously know damn all about
the British.
If your aryan masters had managed to set foot on the mainland, and managed to stay, the poor fuckers would still be dodging bullets.
To this day....

You see Krastner, we are a funny bunch of types the British. The English, Irish, and Scots, all rip the hell out of each other, and they all take the piss out of the Welsh. Significant numbers of the Welsh and Irish always rejected English as their 'first language' and good for them. The Irish, well half of them hated the friggin English with passion. What happened in '39. They enlisted in the British army in droves. The men of Eire formed the third largest volunteer group (in terms of percapita compared to population) in the British armed forces. That's why the term Irish Neutrality always raised a smile. The government may have maintained Eire's neutrality, but the people, well they came and fought.

See the Scots and Irish might well dislike the English, but if anyone is going to be killing them, well , the Scots and Irish' would see that as their job.
The Welsh, they would take one look at a ranting Adolf and say " Naww, that can't be right cannit, we had better stop him before ee as someone's eye out".
So, if the master race had tried its silly tricks in Britain, we wouldn't have ended up speaking German, you sad twat, we would have ended up speaking the Gael/Irish/Welsh, just to piss the invaders a bit more.

Milktoast...sweet jesus.
What do you when someone upsets you badly...?
PIss in their flower beds , you brute.

 

[Falconeyes]

This thread disgusts me