Winner or Loser? The 2004 Superbowl Halftime Show

[Colleen Thomas]

Nothing angers me like hypocrisy. A parent who shares with his or her child the spectacle of a group of young men and women dancing and writhing to a song about gettting naked has alreaady chosen to expose the child to entertainment of an overtly sexual nature.

The fact that a breast is revealed for a moment doesn't make the dance and the song more sexual. Breasts are shown in National Geographic and in art museums; the only thing "obscene" about this particular breast was its context, which was an entertainment appropriate to MTV and not to young children. But I can bet that the reason CBS approved the performance - and that it was okay with the FCC right up until the "reveal" - is that most parents allow their young kids to watch MTV, and in fact buy Justin and Janet's CDs for their kids, without caring that the lyrics are instructing the kids to have sex.

If the song is fine for you and your kids and is approved by CBS and if it's enjoyable enough to the head of the FCC that he doesn't rush to turn off the set and shield his family from a performance that celebrates the sex act, then please get off of the high horse about the breast. As for being furious at a couple of entertainers, please! It was in all likelihood a stunt that was not intended to go as far as it did, which would explain why janet jackson does seem upset in shots from backstage.

I'm outraged at the outrage. It's a sign of lazy parenting.

You can take the whole thing anyway ya like Sher. The fact that I didn't watch shows that for me, the whole spectacle was not as interesting as a book I have read ten times. And if I had known in advance Janet was going au natural it still wouldn't have made any difference to me.

The only point I am trying to make is that it did outrage a lot of people and that that outrage may be put to uses that go far beyond whatever JJ and JT planned. I am outraged, but not at the tit being onTV, nor at the outraged people. I am angry that two people who get the chance to perform before 87 million viewers can't rely on thier singing and dancing abilities to make an impression so the do something that is blatantly against the rules, for shock value, then have the gall to say it was an accident.

Horese feathers.

-Colly

 

[shereads]

I am angry that two people who get the chance to perform before 87 million viewers can't rely on thier singing and dancing abilities to make an impression so the do something that is blatantly against the rules, for shock value, then have the gall to say it was an accident.

It probably was an accident. He was supposed to rip away a layer and reveal a body stocking or something. I believe their story only because her agent would have the sense to know that a Janet Jackson Nude Breast Event would be worth a bidding war among the cable stations, so why give it away for free? And in fact, she did look upset after it happened. Neither of these two stars are at a career low point requiring a sudden booster-cable shock to get them back on the charts; they know that the parents of young children buy more of their albums than adults do, and I can't imagine them risking the wrath of their primary market unless their music was no longer selling.

At any rate, nobody would be talking about it a week later if the chairman of the FCC hadn't decided to self-promote his own career.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It probably was an accident. He was supposed to rip away a layer and reveal a body stocking or something. I believe their story only because her agent would have the sense to know that a Janet Jackson Nude Breast Event would be worth a bidding war among the cable stations, so why give it away for free? And in fact, she did look upset after it happened. Neither of these two stars are at a career low point requiring a sudden booster-cable shock to get them back on the charts; they know that the parents of young children buy more of their albums than adults do, and I can't imagine them risking the wrath of their primary market unless their music was no longer selling.

At any rate, nobody would be talking about it a week later if the chairman of the FCC hadn't decided to self-promote his own career.

I think you are wrong there sher. The local paper is filled with outraged op eds about the sleeze they allow on TV now and how it has become a swerer, etc. etc. ad infinitum. I think this may turn out to be one of those watershed events where people's general angst finds expression.

As to it being an accident, I just don't buy that.

A.) the coreprgrapher said that people would see some thing "shocking" in an interview, an interview that was pulled from M-TV's site monday.

B.) The fellow was really flippant, "well, we gave you something to talk about" that dosen't sound like what you would be saying if you accidentally exposed someone. Unless you are a sorry POS, which may well be the case.

C.) When was the last time you wore a pastey? I know most of us wouldn't be caught dead outside the house without them just in case we lost our tops

D.) Comes at the time in the song where he is predicting he will have her out of her costume by the end of the song.

May well have been an accidnet. Saddam may well have had WMDs. I can almost make as good a case for the latter as you can the former

-Colly

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[MR. Gibson]

yes. I can see the government now suing the hell out of everybody they can -that they think is involved-CBS,NFL,MTV,Janet and justin. and what about the streaker who took all of his clothes off?.........nobody really cares because he aint famous or rich. even the tennessee bible belt is suing-no doubt because they want money for their church!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: What the...?

Apparently it's the breast of a young songstress that is only offensive to John Q. Public.

I read this bit from Cnn.com talking about how ER had planned a scene with an 80-year-old's breast. Evidently, after the whole JJ thing, this won't be happening. And damn well it shouldn't -if they're going to raise a stink about one breast, they may as well do it for all, I guess. I wonder if they'll be editing National Geographic specials next.

Context be damned.

Nervous NBC edits ER breast shot

Leave me my HBO, tyvm.


Oh yes, for more of the "fallout" surrounding JJ's stunt: CNN Article

I think it's ridiculous how overboard these people are taking it.

One network may be facing millions in fines for a one second flash. People are up in arms and the FCC is on the war path. Can you really blame them for deciding it's not prudent at this time to push the envelope?

-Colly

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: What the...?

[Can you really blame them for deciding it's not prudent at this time to push the envelope?

-Colly

Yes.

Anything that supports the view that a female breast is obscene is blame-worthy.

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[Couture]

You can take the whole thing anyway ya like Sher. The fact that I didn't watch shows that for me, the whole spectacle was not as interesting as a book I have read ten times. And if I had known in advance Janet was going au natural it still wouldn't have made any difference to me.

The only point I am trying to make is that it did outrage a lot of people and that that outrage may be put to uses that go far beyond whatever JJ and JT planned. I am outraged, but not at the tit being onTV, nor at the outraged people. I am angry that two people who get the chance to perform before 87 million viewers can't rely on thier singing and dancing abilities to make an impression so the do something that is blatantly against the rules, for shock value, then have the gall to say it was an accident.

Horese feathers.

-Colly

Oh come on Colly...

Now let's get real here.

First off, what I witnessed was some sort of war between tribes where the men from one tribe try to clobber the men from another over a piece of animal skin. Then when they aren't clobbering each other, they are touching each other's asses in a homoerotic display. They also fight over a ball. The symbolism wasn't lost on this sociologist who was afraid to follow them into the showers afterwards...even in the interest of science.

There are also half naked women who keep to themselves, again in a homoerotic display. The women all appear to have disfigured themselves in some cultural right of passage whereby their chests are cut open and two large plastic sacks of liquid are inserted. They advertise this by jumping up and down a lot and wearing tight tops.

The other tribe members gather around and watch. Those that are too far away, watch conflict unfold on boxes that display sound and picture. For those watching on the boxes, every few minutes the tribe members who appear to be in charge of everything tell those watching what to do and what do buy. They call these interludes commercials.

The commercials are just as scary and primitive as what happens on the field. In one such commercial I witnessed a girl and a monkey and in another, a man with a dog. There was an apperent sexual connotation in this commercial. This anthropologist can only surmise that these primitive American engage in sexual activity with other species.

Further study is definately warrented.

 

[Couture]

Re: Re: Re: What the...?

Can I blame them? You bet I can!

I can blame them for thinking it's OK to show an 80 year old's tit, but JJ flashes one and OMG someone's on the warpath.

Hypocrisy abounds.

It's a pretty tit. We don't want people enjoying themselves too much, now do we?

 

[MR. Gibson]

I am not saying what janet and justin did was right but it's not like janet and justin murdered anybody. how far do people want to go here in their persecution of them.???

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: Re: Re: What the...?

Can I blame them? You bet I can!

I can blame them for thinking it's OK to show an 80 year old's tit, but JJ flashes one and OMG someone's on the warpath.

Hypocrisy abounds.

I don't blame them a bit. Artistic integrity is nice, but when the potential price tag is millions in FCC fines, well, I don't think i would want them to risk it if I were majority share holder.

-Colly

 

[shereads]

I am not saying what janet and justin did was right but it's not like janet and justin murdered anybody. how far do people want to go here in their persecution of them.???

As far as necessary to build the political career of the FCC Chairman and further cement the Bush administration's ties with the religious right, I imagine. Some congresspersons will want to leap on the bandwagon now and conduct some obscenity hearings. Those breasts will be sagging from old age by the time this is over.

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What the...?

I don't blame them a bit. Artistic integrity is nice, but when the potential price tag is millions in FCC fines, well, I don't think i would want them to risk it if I were majority share holder.

-Colly

Sounds like a good time for a new, more liberal political party to come into power and tell the chairman of the FCC to stop wasting time and public money on an ass-kissing gesture to the religious right. Public airwaves, my aunt alice. The FCC is barely relevent anymore, and I don't happen to believe that anybody other than a few religous zealots are "outraged" over this. If the viewing audience had been outraged, they wouldn't have begun Tivo-ing the game at the exact moment, en masse.

Outraged. As if there were no genuine causes for outrage. Our sons and brothers and husbands and fathers are being killed at a rate of one per day in a war that we were lied to about, and it doesn't even make the front pages anymore. I'm embarrassed to be an American if a celebrity flashing some skin is what outrages people.

 

[Couture]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the...?

Outraged. As if there were no genuine causes for outrage. Our sons and brothers and husbands and fathers are being killed at a rate of one per day in a war that we were lied to about, and it doesn't even make the front pages anymore. I'm embarrassed to be an American if a celebrity flashing some skin is what outrages people.

Post of the week.

 

[MR. Gibson]

amen! shereads!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I am not saying what janet and justin did was right but it's not like janet and justin murdered anybody. how far do people want to go here in their persecution of them.???

The broke the rules Gibson. They knew exactly what they could and could not do and they went and did what they should not have because hey, we are stars, we can do whatever the fuck we want with no repercussions. But like MJ and the Dixie Chicks and a lot of other stars they discovered there are repercussions, even for celebrities.

In this case there is public outrage, nothing new for pop stars, but it has apparently tapped into a very strong feeling among people that TV has become sleezy. Enter Mike Powell and the FCC, who have practically unlimted power to regulate decency on television and who have already made like a crusade, levying more than twice the amount of fines for indeceny as his predessor. Now JJ & JT give them fresh meat, it's almost ciminally easy for Powell to make a name for himself by pillorying the network, the producers and anyone else he can legally fine. And a huge number of people who aren't as liberal as the average lit poster are in a lather. You guys seem to have mostly liberal freinds and y'all are all like so what. I have mostly conservative freinds and they are like this kind of tawdry stunt has to be punished and while they are at it they need to clean up all the rest of the junk on television. I need not remind you all that the people currently in power are not just conservative, they are reactionary. And you can bet the religious right is salivating at the prospect of further extending the government's cencorship powers by harnessing that wave of outage.

You all can scoff. You can make light of it. You can be outraged at the outrage. It dosen't change the fact that folks, a damned lot of them, are angry as hell about it. A lot of my friends I don't consider conservative but who have children are absolutely furious.

I think you are going to see the network drawing outrageous fines. I think their only recourse will be to sue the producer. I think their only recourse is going to be to blame the two who did it and villify them as much as possible. For Janet she is already being accused of "punking" M-tv by the producers. Justin got his bandmate thrown off the probowl half time show. Both of them are crayfishing now, it was an accident, a wardrobe malfunction, yada yada yada. Not too many people are buying it and by backing off they are only cementing in some people's minds that they knew what they were doing was wrong from the word go.

I don't think either will end up in jail. One or both will probably end up in court. Janet will suffer the most, since it was her boob and she admited it was her idea. Justin is likely to get off with nothing more than some jokes at his expense. I would expect outraged parents to refuse to buy her Cd's for their kids and if that happens the financial repercussions could be severe, but as the old saying goes, no publisicty is bad publicity so she may thrive in it.

In any case I doubt you see either headlining "family entertainment" venues in the near future.

-Colly

 

[MR. Gibson]

we are not making light of the janet jackson and justin thing but it is obvious nobody would care if they were not very rich and famous that's all. you don't see that streaker who took off all his clothes on every single news channel do you colleen. you know why?....because he aint rich or famous and the government can't get any money out of him and he can't sell magazines and videos. this would not be a headliner at all if these two were not famous at all . i am not trying to make you angry colleen i like you but we need to move on with other things like child welfare and losing all those men in the war.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the...?

Sounds like a good time for a new, more liberal political party to come into power and tell the chairman of the FCC to stop wasting time and public money on an ass-kissing gesture to the religious right. Public airwaves, my aunt alice. The FCC is barely relevent anymore, and I don't happen to believe that anybody other than a few religous zealots are "outraged" over this. If the viewing audience had been outraged, they wouldn't have begun Tivo-ing the game at the exact moment, en masse.

Outraged. As if there were no genuine causes for outrage. Our sons and brothers and husbands and fathers are being killed at a rate of one per day in a war that we were lied to about, and it doesn't even make the front pages anymore. I'm embarrassed to be an American if a celebrity flashing some skin is what outrages people.

If you are wondering why Bush Co. is in power and likely to remain in power, you really don't need to look any farther than this Sher. People are angry. To ignore them, belittle them, discount thier feelings, or disdain their concerns is exactly how you create a groundswell movement that will be voting Republican, even if they were undecided before hand.

You disdain them because they are angry about this stunt or worse act like they don't exist. In small town America they do exist, they are angry and they want action. They are real people, with real feelings and they represent a lot of middle america and a hell of a lot of them vote. Howard Dean has already blown the incident off. Bully for him. The Republians will launch some hearings, levy some fines and this huge group of people may be mollified. If they are they will thank the Republicans for listening to them and trying to clean up trashy TV and protect their children and so on and so forth.

Taking the high road that there are other more important concerns ignores thier indignation, an indignation that they feel is righteous no matter how you percieve it. The Democrats are going to waltz along like you are, ignoring them. And when it comes election time the GOP is going to slam them with being anti-family and so liberal they are for sleeze on TV. And they are going to fail to carry a single state in the middle of the country again.

The inability of the majority of you to admit that people are really angry is short sighted. The refusal to see that the outrage you refuse to admit exist represents a lot of political muscle and could very well lead to more censorship is dangerous.

You all however seem more than content to write me off as some kind of right wing nut. So be it. Hopefully you are all correct and I am totally off base. i forsee this turning into a crusade by the far right. But as Saruman said, That is not my doing, I merely foretell.
I hope I don't have the gift of foresight.

-Colly

 

[shereads]

A lot of my friends I don't consider conservative but who have children are absolutely furious.

Please, I beg you to ask these parents at what point in that performance they began to realize that the sexual content of the song and the costumes and the dance might not be appropriate for young children.

It's as if these "furious" parents needed the sight of skin to awaken their Parental Guidance radar.

That's nothing but laziness.
[/QUOTE]

FYI, the Dixie Chicks didn't break any rules. Unless you mean the new one about criticizing the president.

 

[shereads]

deleted double post

 

[MR. Gibson]

wow colly! let me just get out of your freaking way! you are on the warpath. I am just giving you my meager opinion that is all! geez!!!

 

[MR. Gibson]

fantastic point shereads! parents should know what is up on that tv screen and judge what is proper for their kids to watch!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

wow colly! let me just get out of your freaking way! you are on the warpath. I am just giving you my meager opinion that is all! geez!!!

I am not on the warpath Gibson, I asure you. If I were you would know it. I am not angry with you or in the least bit upset with your opinion. If my post carried a combative note you will have to excuse me, I am by and large the only conservative voice in the politics thread and I am used to catching it from all sides. Your opinion is obviously in th majority here so please don't think I was singling you out, I wasn't.

Your posts and opinion are in the majority. I am used to being in the minority or alone and I suppose sometimes my frustration at being alone shows and for that I apologize.

-Colly

 

[MR. Gibson]

thanks for the apology. but don't worry about it. everybody has a right to their opinion colleen. you have your opinion i have mine. we are just discussing the matter that is all!