Winner or Loser? The 2004 Superbowl Halftime Show

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What the...?

If you are wondering why Bush Co. is in power and likely to remain in power, you really don't need to look any farther than this Sher...
You disdain them because they are angry about this stunt or worse act like they don't exist.

-Colly

No, Colly. I don't wonder why he's in power. It's been clear from the get-go that his appeal is that he makes people believe that their most small-minded, narrow instincts - particularly the urge to stage a good witch-hunt now and again - are in fact, noble and Godly.

My disdain in this instance and in many others is that the "morality" of the right wing focuses on minutae - who did what to whom; what position did they use; tell us more details, please - and misses the bigger picture altogether. In this instance, the bigger picture is that these furious parents, including the chairman of the FCC and your friends, are such pathetic sheep that they can't see a sex act being emulated in front of their children until a "rule" is broken.

NOTE TO CONCERNED PARENTS: If you see two MTV stars performing a suggestive dance, to a HIT SONG that your children probably own on CD and whose lyrics you have been too damned lazy to pay any attention to, be warned:
something naughty might be about to happen.

Please. God save us all from people who are too lazy to police their children's TV viewing. The breast was the least offensive thing about that performance, and if you really think that little of the female body, we should pass a law requiring compression bras for adult females.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Please, I beg you to ask these parents at what point in that performance they began to realize that the sexual content of the song and the costumes and the dance might not be appropriate for young children.

It's as if these "furious" parents needed the sight of skin to awaken their Parental Guidance radar.

That's nothing but laziness.

FYI, the Dixie Chicks didn't break any rules. Unless you mean the new one about criticizing the president. [/QUOTE]

The majoirty of those I know cut it off long before nipplegate or sent the kids out of the room sher. You seem to disbelieve it, but I do have freinds who monitor what thier kids watch and what they read and what video games they play. The whole show is what they are angry about, janets nipple is just the icing on the cake so to speak. Hill Street blues, or Er give a parental warning about content and the reason so many are angry is this was a pre planned display of nudity that they were given no warning whatsoever that it was coming. But that dosen't matter, no one is really angry, so what does it matter?

As for the Dixie Chicks they commited the unpardonable sin for performers. They pissed off their fan base. It's Ok for U@ or rage against the machine to bad mouth the prsident, their fans are generally going to accept that of them. Most people who listen to country music are pretty intensely patriotic and when they got pissed off they stopped buying Cd's. Thats what I meant be reprcussions. The chicks lead singer seemed to think her freedom to voice her view meant other's didn't have the freedom to voice theirs with their wallets. Nothing more sinister than that.


-Colly

 

[shereads]

You're right, Colleen. This is a shocking incident and those involved should be prosecuted.

Why? Well, because it's easy. It's uncomplicated. Everybody understands it. The breast was covered, and then it wasn't.

It's so much more fun, too, than expending time and energy on the things that are seriously wrong in America right now.

Plus, expressing our outrage over the naked breast incident helps separate us from "Old Europe."

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[minsue]

thanks for the apology. but don't worry about it. everybody has a right to their opinion colleen. you have your opinion i have mine. we are just discussing the matter that is all!

We must admit, MR., that it is easier when we are among a large group of people who agree with our opinion then it is when we feel like we're the lone voice of sanity.

- Mindy, lovin' the liberal porn site (It's the only place I'm ever among the majority)

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You're right, Colleen. This is a shocking incident and those involved should be prosecuted.

Why? Well, because it's easy. It's uncomplicated. Everybody understands it. The breast was covered, and then it wasn't.

It's so much more fun, too, than expending time and energy on the things that are seriously wrong in America right now.

Plus, expressing our outrage over the naked breast incident helps separate us from "Old Europe."

I'm just a victim of my upbringing. I was raised to believe when you broke the rules you got punished. Kind of quaint and out of favor opinion now-a-days, but I'll stick with it.

So you think the rule is stupid. Then you go out and get it changed, you don't go out and break it then bitch and moan cause you broke it and you are being punished.

Is it on par with greater concerns? Nah, probably not. But just because there are murderes out there dosen't mean you let all the thieves off. Touting a hundred other more "important" things dosen't change that this is still a problem, nor does it mitigate the responsibility of those involved.




As to the outage being less than a danger:

The meeting could help prepare Fox execs for a grilling next week on Capitol Hill. House and Senate committees are calling on Viacom/CBS topper Mel Karmazin to testify at two indecency and broadcast standards hearings skedded to take place on both sides of the Capitol Wednesday. Congressional sources said Karmazin is expected to agree to come if other net execs also show up; NFL Paul Tagliabue has also been asked to make an appearance.


If the net execs show up, hearings will be the hot ticket in Washington that day, with Congress poised to pass legislation boosting fines for indecency violations tenfold.


Language upping the FCC fines was quietly included in the Senate's FCC authorization bill, which passed the committee and awaits floor action, a Senate aide said Thursday evening. Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.) has vowed to push a companion bill through the House panel by Feb. 16.


Action by Feb 16. Knee jerk reaction pushing new legisslation through to stiffen fines and it includes a zero tolerance policy for certain explitives, reguardless of their context or artistic merit.

Please, all of you. Go one telling me I am an alarmist. Tell me again that there is no outrage, it's all cooked up by the FCC. Especially make sure to remind me that there are more important things than this. I would rather live in your reality than the one I am sitting in now, watching the first little nibbles at my civil liberites which i fear (obviously and unfounded fear) will be come big bites out of them as time moves on.

-Depressed

 

[destinie21]

I don't have children but I do have two nephews (4,5) who were watching the game on Sunday. I had the good sense not to let them watch the halftime show because while I didn't know of the nipple incident I certainly knew there who was performing. That said I knew there was to be bumping grinding and sugestive dances. In anycase is would parents have been so outraged if there had been a red bra beneath what she was wearing but Timberlake snatched off Jacksons shirt or would a strip tease have been just dandy?


BTW in the lyrics to the song performed (Rock your body.) Timberlake actually says "C'mon girl I been waiting to long, I'm gonna have you naked by the end of this song.)

You'd think all the parents who are so outraged would have been warned by the lyrics that perhaps little Davey and Susie maybe shouldn't be watching in the first place.

 

[raphy]

I may be wrong here.. ( I usually am ) .. But I'm getting the impression that you all are actually arguing about different things.

Colly: The outrage of the right wing is dangerous and could lead to further conservative legislation

Everyone else: What was wrong with JJ flashing a bit of tit?

Colly: I'm telling you, powerful voices are pissed off.

Everyone else: Only hypocrits are pissed off. Besides, what was wrong with JJ flashing a bit of tit?

I'm just wondering..

Colly, what's your opinion on the tit-flashing itself .. Not of the socio-political repercussions, etc etc .. But very simply - Do you think she/they was/were wrong to do it?

I'm just trying to establish a) whether you really are in the minority here, and b) whether everyone else really is dissmissing the political furor that this has caused.


Personally - I think it's stupid, hypocritical and a waste of time and money to get stressed out over a single breast, exposed for a few seconds on national television. BUT - I do accept that suitably-minded individuals or organizations are going to milk this one for all it's political worth...

God Bless America.

p.s. as a side note - Damn, I'm proud to have moved to New England in time to watch the Pats win.. And by god, it was a GREAT game of football.

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[raphy]

Milk. Breast. Heh heh. Good one Raphy!

Yes, at times I am a bit juvenile.

Yay, McK's on my level!

Hurh-hurh...

p.s. Here's a link I posted in the other JJ/SB thread.... Scary Capalert people. Anyone want a ultra-conservative Christian right-winger for lunch?

http://capalert.com/capreports/index.htm

p.p.s. Read the Southpark movie review. It's hilarious.

p.p.p.s. Love the rosy cheeks, McK

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I may be wrong here.. ( I usually am ) .. But I'm getting the impression that you all are actually arguing about different things.

Colly: The outrage of the right wing is dangerous and could lead to further conservative legislation

Everyone else: What was wrong with JJ flashing a bit of tit?

Colly: I'm telling you, powerful voices are pissed off.

Everyone else: Only hypocrits are pissed off. Besides, what was wrong with JJ flashing a bit of tit?

I'm just wondering..

Colly, what's your opinion on the tit-flashing itself .. Not of the socio-political repercussions, etc etc .. But very simply - Do you think she/they was/were wrong to do it?

I'm just trying to establish a) whether you really are in the minority here, and b) whether everyone else really is dissmissing the political furor that this has caused.


Personally - I think it's stupid, hypocritical and a waste of time and money to get stressed out over a single breast, exposed for a few seconds on national television. BUT - I do accept that suitably-minded individuals or organizations are going to milk this one for all it's political worth...

God Bless America.

p.s. as a side note - Damn, I'm proud to have moved to New England in time to watch the Pats win.. And by god, it was a GREAT game of football.

Yes Raphy, I think she was wrong to do it. It was stupid on her part to intentionalally violate FCC rules when she knew well in advance there would be outrage. It's the kind of tawdry, tasteless PR stunt I would expect from a no talent star like Britt Spears, who really can't depend on her talent to make an impression. I had no idea Janet was so far on the downside of her career something like this was neccessary to make an impression.

That said, she needs to be fined, Via com needs to be fined, M-TV needs to be fined and the network needs to be fined. The level of outrage is totally diproportionate to a one second flash of a boob. A boob with the nipple covered by a pastey at that. It was incredibly stupid on her part, but surely it isn't a hanging or stonning offense. It's an offense where she is supposed to draw a fine and she should.

My anger however is not about a breast being seen on television, you are corect in your interpretation. My anger is so acute because in pulling this little stunt JJ & JT caused a wave of outrage that amounts to a political rubber stamp for the reationary leaders in government, proded by elements of the extreme religious right, to go out and strengthen thier ability to censor material. And like most opportunities they know that fevor will die down soon, so they are striking while the iron is still hot. Janet's boob on the tele end of Jan. reps. pushing to have a new bill expanding the fines and regulatory power of the FCC on the floor by Feb 16. NFL Commissioner Tagliabou to testify before committes in both the house and the senate on Indecency in the mean time. Normally new legislation doesn't get out of committe in that short of a time, much less to the floor.

If that legislation gets passed then in a very real sense Jj & JT lead the charge to see my rights infringed. Just a tiny bit, but a lot of tiny whacks at the freedoms I hold dear may ventually lead to all of them being curtailed. It isn't USA Patriot, but it is another step toward Fascism. This is the kicker, the reason I am so incensed. If that legislation gets passed people won't be upset, they will be applauding. Because they are angry at the trash that passes for Television and because they are outraged, no matter what the majority here says, a large number of them are.

This one little act, which everyone here wants to view in the context of being one litle act, may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back in the broader context of people being sick of trash TV. And now it's up to cooler heads and people who aren't political opportunists to shoot the bill down. I hope you guys have a lot of faith in the house or senate having a majority of such minds, I don't.

And you were right about something else Raphy. I am tired of being the lone voice from the other side here. I love debate, but standing alone and defending my views from multiple attacks is wearing really thin. I feel like an outsider, i feel lonely and it's starting to become depressing. I think I shall refrain from posting for a while.

Colly,

singing off

 

[shereads]

Don't go away, Colly.

 

[raphy]

Aaah, I thought so, Colly .. (on both parts)

*hugs*

For what it's worth, I agree with you, I think.

You break the rules, you pay the price, whether the rule is stupid or not. Pushing the envelope is all well and good, and sure, progress has no patience, but maybe this has given the other side too much ammunition. We might be lucky - This could conceivable go either way, depending on how loudly the liberals shout about it. Turning points are often like that.

As for JJ being wrong - I think it depends on how you define wrong. I think I'd say this:

There's a difference between legality and morality - I think we all agree on that. JJ was wrong in a legal sense to do it. She broke a rule. A legal rule. JJ was also wrong from a socio-political sense of responsibility to do it, because now it's opened the gates on all this chest-beating and conservative bullshit that has the potential to further impinge on 'freedom of expression', whatever the fuck that phrase actually means.

I don't think she was wrong morally. If she wants to flash a tit, good on her. However, my views on morality don't affect American legislature on such.

And, for what this is also worth, I don't think you're alone in your views this time.

 

[MR. Gibson]

I agree with what you say raphy. and please don't go away Colleen we are all just talking here ok girl.? plus I find it interesting for a female who doesn't like the erotic act of janet jackson and justin timberlake loves to post on an erotic site like this. it seems contradictory. I am not sure your pals would like you posting on this site?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Janet Jackson... I remember her from when I was a kid. Back then, I thought she was tough and cool, dancing and singing (Rhythm Nation). It was many, many years ago, though, and I'm surprised to hear that she's still out there singing. I would have expected her to grow up, get married, have kids, and live a normal life, and leave the singing thing behind her as a part of the-wild-stuff-I-did-when-I-was-young-and-crazy. But judging frm the pic I saw, she hasn't grown up, just grown old.

I suppose the tit-flashing was an old woman's desperate attempt to keep her dying career alive.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Janet Jackson... I remember her from when I was a kid. Back then, I thought she was tough and cool, dancing and singing (Rhythm Nation). It was many, many years ago, though, and I'm surprised to hear that she's still out there singing. I would have expected her to grow up, get married, have kids, and live a normal life, and leave the singing thing behind her as a part of the-wild-stuff-I-did-when-I-was-young-and-crazy. But judging frm the pic I saw, she hasn't grown up, just grown old.

I suppose the tit-flashing was an old woman's desperate attempt to keep her dying career alive.

I think we are all learning not to expect the status quo behavior of those within the Jackson family, Flicka. They just don't have it in them to conform...

And no on should have been surprised by her tit antics...has anyone watched her velvet rope tour? She actually ties a guy to a chair on stage and is practically dry fucking him by the end...wonder how many young' uns were allowed to see that.

-E

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It might be fun to see a cute, sexy young couple humping on stage, but JANET JACKSON?

 

[Guest]

Hipocracy

 

[shereads]

Colly is right to be angry at Janet, whats-his-name and MTV for violating an FCC rule and opening this godawful pandora's box.

My own view is that the FCC's authority over the content of broadcast TV and radio is bogus. Let the "free market" determine the content of broadcasts, just as it determine the content of cable and satellite television.

 

[minsue]

I agree with what you say raphy. and please don't go away Colleen we are all just talking here ok girl.? plus I find it interesting for a female who doesn't like the erotic act of janet jackson and justin timberlake loves to post on an erotic site like this. it seems contradictory. I am not sure your pals would like you posting on this site?

I don't see it as contradictory at all. I actually agree totally with Colly on this one ( Red letter day!! ) and, while I don't write for this site, I do love reading it. Leaving aside the thought of anything involving JJ & JT as being erotic, it isn't really about the erotic aspect per se. If you break the regulations, you receive the fine. It really is that simple regardless of how stupid the regulations may be. If you break the regulations in an unbelievably public spectacle in an election year when Neo-Cons are already trying to figure out how to regulate the obscenity on cable, you bring down the hammer of the gods on you and fuck it all up for the rest of us by giving them the opening they've been salivating for.

- Mindy

 

[lucky-E-leven]

If you break the regulations in an unbelievably public spectacle in an election year when Neo-Cons are already trying to figure out how to regulate the obscenity on cable, you bring down the hammer of the gods on you and fuck it all up for the rest of us by giving them the opening they've been salivating for.

- Mindy

Good call, chickee.

-E

 

[Svenskaflicka]

We have a strong censorship against violence, but almost none at all agains nudity.

It works for us.

 

[minsue]

Good call, chickee.

-E

Thanks, E, but 'twas actually Colly's call not mine. I am but a faithful follower today.

- Mindy

 

[shereads]

We have a strong censorship against violence, but almost none at all agains nudity.

It works for us.

But it's hell on your pets.

 

[Svenskaflicka]