dribble believes the USA must break up into two countries... how would that even be possible?

[Sean Renaud]

We're already doing that, we're actually treating the rest of the world like they are our colonies. China isn't taking over the world, they are leading in many places but that's because the Right very specifically doesn't care.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Outlaw gerrymandering? That’s hilarious! You should be a comedian.

I'm told California did an excellent job minimizing gerrymandering through at process known as scientific re-allocation.

I realize this approach would be the end of Republican domination of Wisconsin and North Carolina, two of the most gerrymandered states in the history of the United States.

 

[butters]

so dribble hasn't addressed any of my points in post 1 regarding logistics, the borders, what would be permitted to travel across those borders and costs etc...

quelle surprise

 

[Dribble]

so dribble hasn't addressed any of my points in post 1 regarding logistics, the borders, what would be permitted to travel across those borders and costs etc...

quelle surprise

Simple. Butters. That is WHY DISCUSSIONS should be started.

Are there issues with any of these in the EU?

So...it can happen.

 

[Dribble]

Here is the Brit Butters...complaining that I don't have answers. And yet she has none either. At least I am smart enough to know the complaints she has ...has negotiated solutions. How do I know this? Because there are examples of border logistics that work. If the citizens vote to leave...why should the rest say no? Does that sound very American?

Why are people afraid of choices? How is that bad? Do you think citizens of any particular state don't know what they want?

This is the point...no one wants to admit it. This will happen if the country continues the path it is on. Would it not be best to have the "rules" defined before it happens? Or you can be like my Democratic friends here...and keep singing kumbiya

 

[icanhelp1]

Simple. Butters. That is WHY DISCUSSIONS should be started.

Are there issues with any of these in the EU?

So...it can happen.

What makes our country great is the independence granted to our individual states under constitutional law while enjoying the synergies that 50 independent states provide to the whole.

Judging from what happened during the covid pandemic and the power grab by blue state leadership I would venture to bet that those blue states that successfully seceded from the republic would soon become dictatorships.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

What makes our country great

If you think denying healthcare to just over 50% of your citizens makes you great....

If you think children being shot in school on a weekly basis makes you great...

If you think police killing suspects prior to conviction makes you great...

There is a long list here....but why waste my time,you'll just spout off some rwcj logic.

 

[Dribble]

If you think denying healthcare to just over 50% of your citizens makes you great....

If you think children being shot in school on a weekly basis makes you great...

If you think police killing suspects prior to conviction makes you great...

There is a long list here....but why waste my time,you'll just spout off some rwcj logic.

That the problem...they do think that way. How can any civilized country work with their mentality? And...one more point...they are not a minority in this country...any more than we are a majority.

 

[icanhelp1]

If you think denying healthcare to just over 50% of your citizens makes you great....

If you think children being shot in school on a weekly basis makes you great...

If you think police killing suspects prior to conviction makes you great...

There is a long list here....but why waste my time,you'll just spout off some rwcj logic.

Canada's healthcare system is really! REALLY! good as long as you don't get really! REALLY! sick. As far as specialty care like cancer or lets say a hip replacement, ya can hold your hand on your ass till the cows come home.

Kids getting shot in our schools is tragic but solvable.

The rest of your commentary is not worth a response.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Canada's healthcare system is really! REALLY! good as long as you don't get really! REALLY! sick. As far as specialty care like cancer or lets say a hip replacement, ya can hold your hand on your ass till the cows come home.

Did I mention Canada? Nice goal post move...

Kids getting shot in our schools is tragic but solvable.

Really? It's been going on for a decade,what is your solution?

The rest of your commentary is not worth a response.

Then why did you respond...oh right the USA is not the idyllic place you first claimed.

 

[zipman]

What makes our country great is the independence granted to our individual states under constitutional law while enjoying the synergies that 50 independent states provide to the whole.

Judging from what happened during the covid pandemic and the power grab by blue state leadership I would venture to bet that those blue states that successfully seceded from the republic would soon become dictatorships.

So Trump stated that he should be able to ignore the constitution to overturn an electing and you think the left would be a dictatorship?

Hahaha.

 

[icanhelp1]

So Trump stated that he should be able to ignore the constitution to overturn an electing and you think the left would be a dictatorship?

Hahaha.

When you lefty loone have nothing to add *blame Trump*. Shit's getting old.

 

[HisArpy]

When you lefty loone have nothing to add *blame Trump*. Shit's getting old.

They have no answers and when pressed revert to "But Trump!!!" or go off on some illogical tangent (men can be women).

There is no reason for States to leave the union. There's nothing in Constitution which mandates that States cannot have their own laws and traditions as long as those laws and traditions don't infringe on the laws and traditions of the nation as a whole (read as Federal law and Constitution). Yet somehow the fruitloops think that leaving the union gives the people more than they have now.

It doesn't. There's no possible way that curtailing someone's behavior leads to "more" freedom. Neither does the opposite, allowing unfettered license to do whatever the hell you want, lead to more freedom because the pressure against being truly free comes from the opposite direction.

It eventually descends into chaos. At that point the government must impose physical control over the populace which will resist with violence. Which leads to more physical lock down and the resulting increase in matching violence.

It really does come down to one simple thing that most refuse to acknowledge. If you cannot live where you are, move. Vote with your feet and wallet and change your immediate environment for one which you feel accepts you. With 50 States to choose from, I'm sure there's one out there where you fit in.

If not, then I point out that the problem most likely isn't the environment or various States, it's you.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

They have no answers and when pressed revert to "But Trump!!!" or go off on some illogical tangent (men can be women).

There is no reason for States to leave the union. There's nothing in Constitution which mandates that States cannot have their own laws and traditions as long as those laws and traditions don't infringe on the laws and traditions of the nation as a whole (read as Federal law and Constitution). Yet somehow the fruitloops think that leaving the union gives the people more than they have now.

It doesn't. There's no possible way that curtailing someone's behavior leads to "more" freedom. Neither does the opposite, allowing unfettered license to do whatever the hell you want, lead to more freedom because the pressure against being truly free comes from the opposite direction.

It eventually descends into chaos. At that point the government must impose physical control over the populace which will resist with violence. Which leads to more physical lock down and the resulting increase in matching violence.

It really does come down to one simple thing that most refuse to acknowledge. If you cannot live where you are, move. Vote with your feet and wallet and change your immediate environment for one which you feel accepts you. With 50 States to choose from, I'm sure there's one out there where you fit in.

If not, then I point out that the problem most likely isn't the environment or various States, it's you.

LOL so you have no answers either......

 

[Lazaran]

LOL so you have no answers either......

Not only does Harpy have no answers, but the idiot offers the same tired, privileged Cis white male "solution": "just move".



Notice that the two most notable "movers" on the PB are "Right"guide and BabyBoobs.- both privileged Cis white males who allegedly "moved" from California.

 

[zipman]

When you lefty loone have nothing to add *blame Trump*. Shit's getting old.

You stated that you thought blue states would become dictatorships. I pointed out that the head of the Republican party and your leading candidate said it was okay to ignore the constitution to overturn an election which is clearly far more authoritarian than anything anyone on the left has done.

You support the wannabe dictator, not me.

 

[phrodeau]

It eventually descends into chaos.

You should label all of your posts this way.

 

[Sean Renaud]

They have no answers and when pressed revert to "But Trump!!!" or go off on some illogical tangent (men can be women).

There is no reason for States to leave the union. There's nothing in Constitution which mandates that States cannot have their own laws and traditions as long as those laws and traditions don't infringe on the laws and traditions of the nation as a whole (read as Federal law and Constitution). Yet somehow the fruitloops think that leaving the union gives the people more than they have now.

It doesn't. There's no possible way that curtailing someone's behavior leads to "more" freedom. Neither does the opposite, allowing unfettered license to do whatever the hell you want, lead to more freedom because the pressure against being truly free comes from the opposite direction.

It eventually descends into chaos. At that point the government must impose physical control over the populace which will resist with violence. Which leads to more physical lock down and the resulting increase in matching violence.

It really does come down to one simple thing that most refuse to acknowledge. If you cannot live where you are, move. Vote with your feet and wallet and change your immediate environment for one which you feel accepts you. With 50 States to choose from, I'm sure there's one out there where you fit in.

If not, then I point out that the problem most likely isn't the environment or various States, it's you.

First this is bullshit and you should know its bullshit so what the actual fuck man?

Actually there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents a state from doing whatever the hell it wants for whatever reasons it wants though the courts basically flip a coin on if they want to apply that ancient document you pretend to love so there's that.

I know you're part of club Freedumb but no it does not always or even usually descent in chaos. I don't even know who told you that lie or why you would for a single second entertain the idea that it did.

Often times mandating peoples behavior might limit their freedoms sure, but the benefits gained by greater mobility in other places by far outweigh any losses. That's just how it plays out in the real world.

For lots of reasons moving isn't a real option for all or even most people.

 

[Dribble]

First this is bullshit and you should know its bullshit so what the actual fuck man?

Actually there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents a state from doing whatever the hell it wants for whatever reasons it wants though the courts basically flip a coin on if they want to apply that ancient document you pretend to love so there's that.

I know you're part of club Freedumb but no it does not always or even usually descent in chaos. I don't even know who told you that lie or why you would for a single second entertain the idea that it did.

Often times mandating peoples behavior might limit their freedoms sure, but the benefits gained by greater mobility in other places by far outweigh any losses. That's just how it plays out in the real world.

For lots of reasons moving isn't a real option for all or even most people.

Who cares?

Why should I care about people that live in shit states that "can't move"? That is an excuse. Any time something becomes important enough...people find a way. Look at immigrants from other countries. They don't have money. Yet they find a way. I have moved many times in my life. Very few were my choice. I did it because it was the right thing. I left investments in homes...taking losses. I left jobs that would have moved me higher in status. Why? Because it was the right thing. Family...comes first. If something matters enough....they move.

It isn't my fault people are unwilling to sacrifice something to make a moral point...like living in a State where women have rights.

And yes...it is illegal for a State to leave the Union. Fix that. Then let the dice fall where it falls

 

[Sean Renaud]

Who cares?

Why should I care about people that live in shit states that "can't move"? That is an excuse. Any time something becomes important enough...people find a way. Look at immigrants from other countries. They don't have money. Yet they find a way. I have moved many times in my life. Very few were my choice. I did it because it was the right thing. I left investments in homes...taking losses. I left jobs that would have moved me higher in status. Why? Because it was the right thing. Family...comes first. If something matters enough....they move.

It isn't my fault people are unwilling to sacrifice something to make a moral point...like living in a State where women have rights.

And yes...it is illegal for a State to leave the Union. Fix that. Then let the dice fall where it falls

The real world is not Jurassic Park, life does not find away. The fact that you HAD investments in property at all tells me all we need to know about what position you were in to begin with so you're not even a remotely good sample. If family comes first that in and of itself might be an anchor.

No one said its your fault, like many people you seem to completely lack empathy and I would be scared to lived in any society you ran but still.

Show me the actual line where it says you can't leave. i've never been able to find it.

 

[Dribble]

Let's look at the State of Florida...

What is its primary source of income? It isn't what you think. It is Federal handouts each time a storm comes through. Know that dollar value the news talks about when they talk damage? Nope. That is a dollar value associated with money coming into their State...free. Year after year. There are companies that exist solely dedicated to cleanup...or handing out supplies...or rebuilding. Tax free. When Florida rebuilds...do they do so in new places that won't have the damage next time? Nope. Why? Because THAT IS THEIR ECONOMY.

So...why is it everyone else's job to fix their choices? Year after year? Federal mo ey should be spent to benefit the country...not a State. Now...if the State wants low interest loans...sure. If the State wants to issue bonds and let investors purchase them...sure.

Why do people live where they do? When i lived on the streets of LA....yep...there was a day. Drug addiction. Nothing but what I carried in 2 suitcases. And guess what? I decided enough...and started the long path. So to those that say because I was able to...and am able to own property today...that I don't know what the fuck I am talking about...fuck you. I know more about what it takes to live on the streets than you ever will. If anyone...anyone...wants to change their life...they can.

People that live in Florida...under DeSantis Rule...choose to. There is something there they value more than the negatives. This is life.

 

[HisArpy]

You should label all of your posts this way.

You poor poor misbegotten little phuckwad.

What a shame you have no life to live outside of your droll existence here in Lit.

Perhaps if you

GO FUCK YOURSELF

you might feel better. Especially after you clean up your mess with your tongue.

 

[HisArpy]

Who cares?

Why should I care about people that live in shit states that "can't move"? That is an excuse. Any time something becomes important enough...people find a way. Look at immigrants from other countries. They don't have money. Yet they find a way. I have moved many times in my life. Very few were my choice. I did it because it was the right thing. I left investments in homes...taking losses. I left jobs that would have moved me higher in status. Why? Because it was the right thing. Family...comes first. If something matters enough....they move.

It isn't my fault people are unwilling to sacrifice something to make a moral point...like living in a State where women have rights.

And yes...it is illegal for a State to leave the Union. Fix that. Then let the dice fall where it falls

Re thoughts about those who say people can't afford to move:

The dust bowl days come to mind...

 

[butters]

Simple. Butters. That is WHY DISCUSSIONS should be started.

Are there issues with any of these in the EU?

So...it can happen.

and i started the discussion. I don't see that you have offered any workable solutions or addressed the points i made with any clarity or logic. Do you imagine the USA breaking up into numerous countries, with very different agendas, politically and socially, then coming together to negate all the problems I've posited is possible within the short period of time its opposition nations would manage to exploit the chaos? If you do, i've a bridge to sell you.

yes! there are still issues with secession, 'euro rules' (one of the reasons the UK withdrew in a disastrous move still having major effects politically and economically there), borders and more.

yes, it 'can happen', but it's a convoluted process, drawn out over decades and subject to changes all the time. The length and complexity of that process may differ with the USA, but it will be complex and it will be difficult and it WILL be lengthy. The strength of the USA resides in its name: it has the political and financial clout to claim a place at or near the head of the world's high table. THE MOMENT it splits into small, disparate factions (you've still not addressed how the swing states would factor into the equation you make out to be so easy) is the moment it loses that perceived position, boosting the aspirations of land-greedy Russia and the economic powers of China and India. The maga minds (in their own new country making the lives of any regular people unable to move a living hell) seem to affiliate with putin's thinking in most regards, so do you see them happy to stand up against incursion by russia into the new, non-maga countries or encouraging it to wipe out the countries' populations that harbour blacks, gays, abortion, same-sex marriage, Jews and more? (For a price, of course: "we'll let you claim these godless countries filled with deviants just so long as you pay us some kind of bonus for doing so and promise not to invade us with all our guns, dammit")

from wiki, since you appear ignorant of the timelines:

The European Union is a geo-political entity covering a large portion of the European continent. It is founded upon numerous treaties and has undergone expansions and secessions that have taken it from six member states to 27, a majority of the states in Europe.

Since the beginning of the institutionalised modern European integration in 1948, the development of the European Union has been based on a supranational foundation that would "make war unthinkable and materially impossible"[1][2] and reinforce democracy amongst its members[3] as laid out by Robert Schuman and other leaders in the Schuman Declaration (1950) and the Europe Declaration (1951). This principle was at the heart of the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) (1951), the Treaty of Paris (1951), and later the Treaty of Rome (1958) which established the European Economic Community (EEC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (EAEC).

The Maastricht Treaty (1992) created the European Union with its pillars system, including foreign and home affairs alongside the European Communities. This in turn led to the creation of the single European currency, the euro (launched 1999). The ECSC expired in 2002. The Maastricht Treaty has been amended by the treaties of Amsterdam (1997), Nice (2001) and Lisbon (2007), the latter merging the three pillars into a single legal entity, though the EAEC has maintained a distinct legal identity despite sharing members and institutions.

 

[butters]

what's laughable about dribble's position is that he demands these actions without a realistic plan as to how that may be achieved: a naive stand to take and as disastrous as gaetz's plot to toss out the house speaker with no viable plan to elect another... a move i believe dribble's been vocal enough about. if i'm wrong on that point, i stand corrected.