A shared sword & sorcery setting: City of Scum

[StillStunned]

A while ago I wrote a story called Rulk the Rat and the Demon Dagger (9.7k words, rated 4.76). A nasty story about nasty people, none nastier than the main character. To me, it encapsulates some of the key elements of S&S: a grim setting, earthy characters, magic that's unpredictable and mysterious rather than utilitarian, people whose motives are selfish, shades of grey, a distinct lack of Good v Evil conflict.

Several readers commented that it would make a good chapter in an anthology:

"You could have some fun expanding this world in future stories for sure."
"It felt like a story from a horror anthology series with a grim narrator introducing each story."
"I feel like this would be a fun episode of something like the Twilight Zone[.]"

In The Sword & Sorcery appreciation thread, the possibility came up of a S&S challenge. I doubt that would happen this year - I won't be organising it, at least - but perhaps people would be interested in using the setting from "Rulk the Rat" as a shared universe. An anthology of standalone stories with a common tone and some common landmarks, but different characters.

Who's interested? I'm not setting any deadlines or saying who's allowed to join, or impose any sequence for people to write their stories. Just an open setting to use as background and inspiration.

 

[Voboy]

In The Sword & Sorcery appreciation thread, the possibility came up of a S&S challenge. I doubt that would happen this year - I won't be organising it, at least - but perhaps people would be interested in using the setting from "Rulk the Rat" as a shared universe. An anthology of standalone stories with a common tone and some common landmarks, but different characters.

Who's interested? I'm not setting any deadlines or saying who's allowed to join, or impose any sequence for people to write their stories. Just an open setting to use as background and inspiration.

There's already a thing like that. @Nouh_Bdee came up with Leinyere some years ago, and we've done much work fleshing it out.

I'm not here to speak for Nouh, but I have no doubt at all that you'd be more than welcome to set a story there.

 

[StillStunned]

Very interesting, as a shared world, but not exactly what my intention is.

I'm suggesting stories based in a single city (as yet nameless). It's dark and gritty and hopeless. Lankhmar. Ankh-Morpork without the hilarity. The 1970s New York of Springsteen's "Born to Run", without the cars and neon signs. 19th century London where the ghouls have eaten all Dickens's holier-than-thou heroes.

Basically, a fantasy setting determined as much by mood and tone as anything else. A place for writers to get in touch with their dark side, without the promise of cookies.

 

[Voboy]

Ah. More like Thieves' World.



I get it.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

Thieves' World was exactly what I was about to say.
The reference to Lankhmar put me right there.

 

[PennyThompson]

Ankh-Morpork without the hilarity.

A place for writers to get in touch with their dark side, without the promise of cookies.

Well now you're just tempting me to write a cute story in your grimdark city about a milfy baker who partners with a waifish street beggar to sell magical girl scout cookies to all the grizzled thieves and mercenaries at the tavern

 

[StillStunned]

Ah. More like Thieves' World.

Yes, like Thieves' World, but more anthology than serial. And more Joe Abercrombie grimdark.

 

[Voboy]

Yes, like Thieves' World, but more anthology than serial. And more Joe Abercrombie grimdark.

I like that a lot. Good idea.

I still think Leinyere would give you an idea of how to do this well. There needs to be a map, and a common "skeleton" of customs, language, belief systems, and geography. Everyone's characters need to be able to refer to the same section of town wall, for example, the one where the magistrates hang all the thieves, as shorthand for what happens if they get caught doing something bad. They all need to be able to complain plausibly about the sewers, or the coaching inns, or the mails not coming on time. Currency needs to make sense.

These things definitely need attention, but I think it would be attention worth paying. Leinyere did it on a shared Google doc among interested writers, crowdsourcing a lot of the geography and customs. It worked well. But the map came first.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm not sure a map is as vital for a city as it is for a whole world. There's no need to decide where the steppe barbarians are positioned relative to the wine-growing dwarves and the elves' overland airshipping lanes. Terry Pratchett's Ankh-Morpork didn't get a map until the Map was made, for instance.

All that's needed are some outlines. The docks are along the river, because there's a swamp between the city and the sea. The rich neighbourhood is on the hill. The river is crossed by one stone bridge and two wooden ones. And so on.

But yes, other details would need to be consistent. As for complaints: in a city of this kind, I assume that everyone will be complaining, but they'll all have their own concerns. Rulk the Rat for instance wouldn't care about the mail or the coaching inns, and as for the sewers, he doesn't remember a time when they weren't overflowing.

 

[Voboy]

I'm not sure a map is as vital for a city as it is for a whole world. There's no need to decide where the steppe barbarians are positioned relative to the wine-growing dwarves and the elves' overland airshipping lanes. Terry Pratchett's Ankh-Morpork didn't get a map until the Map was made, for instance.

All that's needed are some outlines. The docks are along the river, because there's a swamp between the city and the sea. The rich neighbourhood is on the hill. The river is crossed by one stone bridge and two wooden ones. And so on.

But yes, other details would need to be consistent. As for complaints: in a city of this kind, I assume that everyone will be complaining, but they'll all have their own concerns. Rulk the Rat for instance wouldn't care about the mail or the coaching inns, and as for the sewers, he doesn't remember a time when they weren't overflowing.

No worries. Just telling you what worked before.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm also very much a "make it up as and when you need it" kind of worldbuilder. And a "the world's a very big place, no need to keep referring to existing elements" kind of worldbuilder.

 

[yowser]

I know you said you didn't want a map, but here's one anyway. Maybe someone can use it somewhere else. I am a big believer in the value of knowing where you are.

 

[StillStunned]

I know you said you didn't want a map, but here's one anyway. Maybe someone can use it somewhere else. I am a big believer in the value of knowing where you are.

I don't see the Voyeur Heights anywhere. And I'm pretty sure Bestial Bay is a no-go area.

 

[PennyThompson]

Where's the Endless Plane of Car Backseat Incest?

 

[yowser]

don't see the Voyeur Heights anywhere.

Damn, left that out. Surely it overlooks Exhibitionist Bay. Non-human Bay doesn't have the right sound.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I know you said you didn't want a map, but here's one anyway. Maybe someone can use it somewhere else. I am a big believer in the value of knowing where you are.

View attachment 2477097

The Romantic Tribe have their own island just off the edge of this map?

 

[StillStunned]

Perhaps if people want to discuss the map, they can split the discussion off to a separate thread? Thanks!

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I know you said you didn't want a map, but here's one anyway. Maybe someone can use it somewhere else. I am a big believer in the value of knowing where you are.

View attachment 2477097

Didn't somebody do a Lit city, like three years ago?

 

[M_K_Babalon]

A while ago I wrote a story called Rulk the Rat and the Demon Dagger (9.7k words, rated 4.76). A nasty story about nasty people, none nastier than the main character. To me, it encapsulates some of the key elements of S&S: a grim setting, earthy characters, magic that's unpredictable and mysterious rather than utilitarian, people whose motives are selfish, shades of grey, a distinct lack of Good v Evil conflict.

Several readers commented that it would make a good chapter in an anthology:

"You could have some fun expanding this world in future stories for sure."
"It felt like a story from a horror anthology series with a grim narrator introducing each story."
"I feel like this would be a fun episode of something like the Twilight Zone[.]"

In The Sword & Sorcery appreciation thread, the possibility came up of a S&S challenge. I doubt that would happen this year - I won't be organising it, at least - but perhaps people would be interested in using the setting from "Rulk the Rat" as a shared universe. An anthology of standalone stories with a common tone and some common landmarks, but different characters.

Who's interested? I'm not setting any deadlines or saying who's allowed to join, or impose any sequence for people to write their stories. Just an open setting to use as background and inspiration.

Ah, don't do that. I have a S&S story layout, but it's not erotica, nor for this name. Don't make me try and mess with it.

 

[StillStunned]

Adding some info from the discussion over on Bluesky:

I'm not sure it really needs to be that controlled [as Thieves' World]. Some basic elements will need to be agreed, but an anthology of stand-alone stories about separate characters doesn't require as much curating as a "shared world" serial. Maybe pinch the odd idea from other stories, but mostly it's about mood.

Ok, so we're keeping Low Street and the ghouls at night.

Coins are copper commons, silver nobles and gold royals. Most people never see any gold, so mostly copper and silver. The city is damp and poorly maintained, with a river along or through it. One or two rich areas on higher ground. Marsh between the city and the sea, so the docks are by the river.

Gangs are the Gutter Gate Society and the Waterfront Widows, and a new one: the Archers (under the arches of a stone bridge across the river).

Beyond the bleak tone, selfish characters, and "magic is dangerous and unpredictable", that's really it. The city doesn't even have a name, and I doubt most of its residents would call it anything other than "the City".

At the risk of being redundant: I think a good approach to the worldbuilding would be "Yes, and..." Nothing is absolute, nothing is final, nothing destructive should have a big and lasting impact on the City as a whole.

 

[DraegonDaddy]

Noted, 1900 words into something.

 

[DraegonDaddy]

For reference the sword I mentioned is this blade:
With this hilt:

 

[grey228]

Good inspiration would be Dishonored (I have the settings RPG ... chiefly because I was trying to get Bone Charm ideas) as well as the old Warhammer (the classic one about the Old World).

I got the out of print The Black Company settings book (chiefly because I didn't trust Glen Cook writing anything addictive) and I was right. It was basically akin to classic Warhammer with magic Montagnards and flying carpets stretched across light wooden frames with the surface area of a small lot.

The Conan stories and the Barsoom stories vary in quality; I'd steal borrow liberally from them if need be.

One thing to set your setting apart is how you wordsmith your terminology, peoples, places, techniques, actions, etc. The more memorable settings have terms that when read (in English, at least), instantly communicate their meaning without lengthy exposition.

 

[StillStunned]

For reference the sword I mentioned is this blade:

Gorgeous!

One thing to set your setting apart is how you wordsmith your terminology, peoples, places, techniques, actions, etc. The more memorable settings have terms that when read (in English, at least), instantly communicate their meaning without lengthy exposition.

Agreed. I'm not a big fan of exotic-sounding names. In my S&S stories, I have things like glowstones and kissleaf. You know with minimal explanation what they do. They're also the kind of words that are used by people whose main concern is getting to the end of the day without starving or being beaten by the Watch.

I've started working on a new story, which refers to the posh district as "Rich Pigs' Hill". This is in fact only a slight exaggeration: I know at least one European town where the posh area is still referred to by locals as "the Lords' Hill".

 

[grey228]

I've started working on a new story, which refers to the posh district as "Rich Pigs' Hill"

Rather too on the nose.

Try, "Richard's Hill" or a surname of a popular clan/family in the district and Hill. Establish some roots in the world.