Story Discussion: Jan 27, 2008. "Butterfly's Sacrifice" by Penelope Street

[Penelope Street]

Hi, Everyone!

This week's story is "Butterfly's Sacrifice," a Halloween contest submission from a few years ago. It's about eight thousand words, a little over two Lit pages and may be found here:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=281047

I hope you enjoy the story, but even if you don't, I'd still like to here from you! A few questions follow in the next posts, but please wait until after you've read the story to visit them since the questions would be be spoilers otherwise.

Thanks Bunches,
Penny

P.S.
If anyone feels like being a guinea pig, skip the opening section and read the story starting with this line:"You're the one they call Butterfly, aren't you?"

 

[Penelope Street]

Welcome back. I hope you've finished the tale, because if not, I'm about to ruin it.

The idea behind "Butterfly's Sacrifice" began with another story written by a friend of mine about a pack of werewolves and their human sacrifice. Her werewolves intended to eat their victim and my friend needed a way for her heroine to escape. We were chatting about it, and suddenly it occurred to me that a sacrifice is not just about killing, but also about giving away something valuable. This lead me to suggest that the real 'sacrifice' could be not eating her. She chose a different solution to resolve the issue in her tale, but I still thought it was a clever idea about which to wrap a story. So I did. I picked vampires instead of werewolves just in case she changed her mind later, but she didn't.

I meant for "Butterfly's Sacrifice" to play against vampire lore and be something of a parody- yet not too silly and still with the potential for arousal. So my first question is, does it work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?

What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?

How did Bobby's death work for you? Was it especially shocking coming right after the erotic scene? This was a late change to the story and I spent an entire week just pondering whch way to go with it before deciding the tale lacked bite if Bobby lived. I was really sad that he died, but my editors didn't seem to care! Did you?

The ending is meant to be ambiguous about what happens next. The primary point I wanted to get across was that Amy has changed. Does it work? What do you imagine happens next?

Would the story have been better without Amy's opening history lesson, the one that precedes the first scene? I wrote that piece for myself, mostly just to establish the character and try to get into Amy's frame of mind, and hopefully give her a voice at least a little different from some of my other characters. My plan was to delete it from the final form and blend in any necessary information elsewhere. I had in mind using the conversation in the van when they travel to the old structure, but it felt like such an action spoiling information dump that I decided against it. I considered just deleting the opening piece, but when I asked my editors about it, they felt strongly about keeping it. Because I didn't feel that strongly about deleting it, I left it, but I've kinda regretted it since.

What's the most appropriate category? I considered erotic horror, but I didn't think it quite frightening enough, so I chose non-human instead. Was there a third choice I missed?

Do you think that's enough questions?

Everyone is welcome and invited to join any of our discussions (especially mine ) and share their thoughts. You don't need to have a degree in literature or anything like that, so please don't be shy! Don't worry repeating what anyone else said; I believe it's invaluable to know if readers are experiencing similar reactions.

A summary of the above questions appears in the post below for those inclined to use the QUOTE feature when replying.

Thanks Bunches,
Penny

 

[Penelope Street]

Question Summary

Does the story work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?


What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?


How did you feel when Bobby died?


What did you think of the ambiguous ending?


Would the story have been better without the exposition that precedes the first scene?


What's the most appropriate category for this story?


What did you like best about this tale?


What did you like least?


Any additional opinions and observations are also welcome!

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Hiya,

Urk, more vampires... ah now I see what you mean about trashing all those usual conventions of vamp stories. Someone really wanted to puncture the tall dark and goth stereotype.

Does the story work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?

I didn't spot it as a comedy to be honest. I think it was only when I went back through I spotted some of the lighter touches in the dialogue. When I think about it Bobby's awkwardness with Amy is a nice parody - the all powerful vampire as a fumbling virgin.

I thought I was in a horror story from the way it panned out at the start and probably stumbled blindly past all the signs to say it was different.

I can see how the image of the nerd vampires can be kind of funny, but the themes of the rest of the story are too deep and serious for me to see it as a comedy. It's too dark to be screwball, but not dark or malicious enough to head into real black humour territory. If that makes any sense at all

My sense of humour isn't exactly conventional so I'm guessing other people might have viewed it differently.

What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?

I really liked Amy. It's nice to see another horror stereotype whacked over the head by not using the sex-loving girl as disposable monster fodder.

Bobby was a little too limp for my liking. I liked the idea of the 'nice guy' vamp. His shy fumblings are the complete opposite to the perfect fantasy lover Dr M talked about in the other discussion. I didn't really get the sense there was anything more to him than being shy and awkward. Of course the problem with shy and awkward characters is their shyness and awkwardness gets in the way of being able to see their real character

I couldn't put my finger on Norma, but that's because I'm fairly certain I'm not supposed to be able to put my finger on Norma! She's the obvious matriarch but there are all these hints that she has other motivations driving her than looking for the nearest throat to sink fangs into.

How did you feel when Bobby died?

Not enough I think. It's sad enough - because he doesn't seem that bad of a person - to keep the story from being the sexy comedy you mentioned but I didn't really feel strongly about him for it to seem truly tragic. Because it happened so fast and his death was 'off camera' I'm not sure the scene was as strong as it could have been.

I think it might have had more dramatic impact if you'd lingered more over his loss of control so that we can get a real sense of Amy's terror before Norma steps in. You've done a really good job of presenting him as the fumbling nice guy, this point would be a perfect spot to remind us he's still a vampire and shouldn't be taken lightly at all.

His disposal felt a little too clean as well. The "They already have" comment came too fast for it to seem real without actually seeing some evidence of him being ripped apart.

I fear I may be hijacking the story and missing the overall point though

What did you think of the ambiguous ending?

I didn't mind this. It's the ending of one story with hints at more to follow. Norma being a police officer also reinforces those hints of other motivations.

Would the story have been better without the exposition that precedes the first scene?

It didn't get in the way, although I did think she was a man from the first couple of paragraphs

What's the most appropriate category for this story?

What are these categories other than erotic horror?

What did you like best about this tale?

The image of the nerd vampires was a good one. It was also a refreshing change from the normal vamp stereotypes. Amy's character was strong and likable.

What did you like least?

The other vamps seemed a little too nebulous. Norma clearly has something going on with her vamp initiation rite, but the other vamps behave like her mindless brood in the way they fall on her afters. It seems to go against the purpose of having the rite in the first place.

Any additional opinions and observations are also welcome!

Thanks for sharing the tale. I really liked the twist on the usual vampire fare.

Many-Eyed Hydra

 

[Penelope Street]

When I think about it Bobby's awkwardness with Amy is a nice parody - the all powerful vampire as a fumbling virgin.

Perfect! I still smile when I think of Bobby the geeky vampire. Would the story work better if he'd lived?

I can see how the image of the nerd vampires can be kind of funny, but the themes of the rest of the story are too deep and serious for me to see it as a comedy. It's too dark to be screwball, but not dark or malicious enough to head into real black humour territory. If that makes any sense at all

Yes, it makes sense. Is there anything more difficult to write than humor? And humour is even harder! I wasn't aiming for gut-ripping laughter, just a giggle or chuckle. Some examples being the quip about the Batmobile; Amy accusing Norma of being old enough to have fucked George Washington; the implied image of the vampires in a theater watching vampire movies; undead tour guides at a state sponsored historical site; a vampire suffering from nicotine addiction in addition to chewing gum and using too much perfume.

I really liked Amy. It's nice to see another horror stereotype whacked over the head by not using the sex-loving girl as disposable monster fodder.

I agree! Thank you.

Bobby was a little too limp for my liking.

Well, at least he wasn't too limp when it counted.

I liked the idea of the 'nice guy' vamp. His shy fumblings are the complete opposite to the perfect fantasy lover Dr M talked about in the other discussion. I didn't really get the sense there was anything more to him than being shy and awkward. Of course the problem with shy and awkward characters is their shyness and awkwardness gets in the way of being able to see their real character

I thought I did this right, but maybe not. Those facets of Bobby's character that Amy didn't see, or at least notice, don't change the story and therefore shouldn't be part of the story, right? I expected male readers to fill in Bobby a bit with themselves, however, so if you didn't, then it didn't quite work in the manner I had anticipated.

I couldn't put my finger on Norma, but that's because I'm fairly certain I'm not supposed to be able to put my finger on Norma!

True. Norma's meant to be mysterious and open to many interpretations. What did Doc say about too much monster being the death knell of a horror story?

[Bobby's passing] is sad enough - because he doesn't seem that bad of a person - to keep the story from being the sexy comedy you mentioned but I didn't really feel strongly about him for it to seem truly tragic. Because it happened so fast and his death was 'off camera' I'm not sure the scene was as strong as it could have been.

I was aiming for an "Awww, that's too bad" but no tears, so at least for you I think it worked the way I'd planned. Perchance a better question is, should I have attempted something else?

I think it might have had more dramatic impact if you'd lingered more over his loss of control so that we can get a real sense of Amy's terror before Norma steps in.

I'm not sure how to accomplished this- lingering over something that happens so fast?

You've done a really good job of presenting him as the fumbling nice guy, this point would be a perfect spot to remind us he's still a vampire and shouldn't be taken lightly at all.

Thank you. *sigh* I tried a little to show Bobby is both excited and dangerous, like when he throws Amy on the bed?

His disposal felt a little too clean as well. The "They already have" comment came too fast for it to seem real without actually seeing some evidence of him being ripped apart.

Upon reading the story a second time prior to this discussion, I found myself wanting to add something, a smell I think- like Amy asks if they are going to kill him and Norma inhales before saying they already have- then Amy smells it too. Not sure what scent though. Maybe rain? Although the story hints at it a bit, I think I should have been a little more explicit about Amy later being haunted by her memories of Bobby's demise.

I fear I may be hijacking the story and missing the overall point though

Fear not! Ambiguous stories are for the reader to hijack, aren't they?

It's the ending of one story with hints at more to follow. Norma being a police officer also reinforces those hints of other motivations.

More to follow? I'm certainly not planning any sequel. One of the questions I meant to leave unanswered was Norma's relation to the police department, though in my vision she is not an officer. Whether her accomplices are cops or vampires, neither or both, is also meant to be up to the reader.

I also wanted to show that it's Norma who is drawn to Amy, that in the end the vampire is envious of the human and not the other way around.

It didn't get in the way, although I did think she was a man from the first couple of paragraphs

Ooops! It didn't even occur to me that anyone would read it that way, but I can certainly see what you mean.

What are these categories other than erotic horror?

Cute.

The image of the nerd vampires was a good one. It was also a refreshing change from the normal vamp stereotypes. Amy's character was strong and likable.

Thank you. I love the moment where Amy demands Norma quit insulting her.

The other vamps seemed a little too nebulous. Norma clearly has something going on with her vamp initiation rite, but the other vamps behave like her mindless brood in the way they fall on her afters. It seems to go against the purpose of having the rite in the first place.

Excellent observation about the mindless brood. Although I agree it's a bit of a weakness, I'm not sure what would be a good way to address the issue with only a sentence or two. I wouldn't want to spend too many words on it.

Thanks for sharing the tale. I really liked the twist on the usual vampire fare.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and respond.

 

[Omerikon]

Does the story work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?

"Comedy" would be a stretch. It has a light tone, a bit goofy in some places (age-old vampires in vans), but I don't think that qualifies it as a comedy.

What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?

Bobby was the weakest of the three. He felt like a caricature, and an opaque foil for the story.

The gum and perfume were interesting details about Norma, but she still seems confused, wavering between flippant and world-weary, and generic vampire badass. I would personally go more along the flippant route, and she has some good lines (like about Brad Pitt) that made me like her in that sense.

There was too much telling with Amy. For a story that's 8000 words long, there's too much background on her that doesn't come to bear. I never felt much of a connection to her, but I can't quite figure out why. If I can put my finger on it, I'll come back to you.

How did you feel when Bobby died?

Not much. There was no attachment to him. When Amy was comparing him to one of her "tools", I felt that was pretty much a perfect analogy. He was just there, then he was gone.

What did you think of the ambiguous ending?

I liked it. Unexpected and interesting.

Would the story have been better without the exposition that precedes the first scene?

The answer to this type of question is invariably "yes". If you have to ask yourself if ANY instance of exposition is necessary, it's not.

What's the most appropriate category for this story?

Probably Fantasy/Sci-Fi. That seems to be where most of the vampire stories end up, and off-beat or not, vampire-lovers are going to be your main audience.

What did you like best about this tale?

It was different. Anne Rice wannabes are a dime a dozen, and it's refreshing to read something with vampires that isn't about a lot of lace and leather and skulls with melting candles in the eye sockets.

What did you like least?

I felt a lot of the elements fell on the other side of vampire-cliche, into "trying too hard to not be cliche".

There was too much telling and a lot of passive voice sneaking in, all of which could be cut down dramatically with a sharp editing scalpel.

Any additional opinions and observations are also welcome!

I felt the story was a good idea with a good tone that got a little lost along the way. I got the sense it wasn't thoroughly self-edited, which left a lot of style and characterization issues as rough edges. Cleaning up the telling/passive voice, eliminating most of the exposition, and tightening up and then expanding the characterization of all the characters would have added a bright layer of polish to an otherwise good story.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Omerikon,

Thanks for joining us. It's great to see a new avatar in our forum!

Would the story have been better without the exposition that precedes the first scene?

The answer to this type of question is invariably "yes". If you have to ask yourself if ANY instance of exposition is necessary, it's not.

I've softened a bit on exposition since I wrote this story, but I still regret the opening. I considered asking readers to skip that section and see if they could follow the story ok without it- and I think I will. Thank you.

I felt a lot of the elements fell on the other side of vampire-cliche, into "trying too hard to not be cliche".

I don't know why this reminds me of all those recipes that say something like, "season to taste with salt and pepper." For me, writing is so often like a new recipe, you never know how much is too much. It would be so easy if stories came with a pair of shakers so readers could just add a little extra if they wanted!

Bobby was the weakest of the three. He felt like a caricature, and an opaque foil for the story.

He's certainly the thinest character, and I guess the weakest too. One of my editors even called him 'disposable'. I'm not sure what might have worked to give him a little depth. Maybe I should have found a way to give him a moment alone with Amy? Or should I not fret so much about this since it's not really his story anyway.

The gum and perfume were interesting details about Norma, but she still seems confused, wavering between flippant and world-weary, and generic vampire badass. I would personally go more along the flippant route, and she has some good lines (like about Brad Pitt) that made me like her in that sense.

Norma's meant to be something of a flippant, world-weary vampire badass- so I guess that's good. I think it would get a bit boring after a while, you know, so I wanted to portray her initially as aloof, but then something- and I intentionally didn't want to say what- about Amy piques her. At least that was my goal.

I never felt much of a connection to [Amy], but I can't quite figure out why. If I can put my finger on it, I'll come back to you.

Not feeling any connection with Amy would make for a dull reading experience. *sigh* I have a few ideas why she might not appeal to certain readers, but I'd like to keep mum about it for now because I'm hoping one of those readers will drop by later and say it better than I could like he has a habit of doing!

There was too much telling and a lot of passive voice sneaking in, all of which could be cut down dramatically with a sharp editing scalpel.

This observation is a little worrisome for me because even when reading the story a year after posting it, I didn't feel like changing too much- except deleting that opening section. If you could please elaborate a bit, perhaps with some examples of passive voices and undesirable exposition (not counting that opening section), it might really help me understand the issue.

Fantasy/Sci-Fi. That seems to be where most of the vampire stories end up, and off-beat or not, vampire-lovers are going to be your main audience.

I was hoping non-vampire lovers might enjoy the intended lampooning too.

Anne Rice wannabes are a dime a dozen, and it's refreshing to read something with vampires that isn't about a lot of lace and leather and skulls with melting candles in the eye sockets.

I agree about the leather and skulls- though I also liked Brad Pitt as a vampire.


Thanks again for taking the time to read my story and share your thoughts. I understand how difficult it can be to scrutinize a stranger's work and I certainly appreciate it!

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Omerikon]

This observation is a little worrisome for me because even when reading the story a year after posting it, I didn't feel like changing too much- except deleting that opening section. If you could please elaborate a bit, perhaps with some examples of passive voices and undesirable exposition (not counting that opening section), it might really help me understand the issue.

Sure.

"Not that either of us could hear much above Shania Twain's blaring vocals, but we weren't saying anything really- other than "I want to fuck you" with different words." - Telling. The sexual tension is obvious.

"No," I begged. "I'll do what you want." -It's obvious she's begging. Redundant speech attribution

Her mouth enveloped his neck - She'd have to have a pretty big mouth to envelope his neck.

"Shhhush," she hissed. - Redundant speech attribution

My shoulders crept toward my neck. "What do you want to know?" - Passive voice. You mean "I shrugged"..

"Yeah." The ends of my lips dared creep upward just a bit. "That's nice too." - A little bit of telling and a little bit of passive voice. You could cut out that entire sentence without losing any meaning or tone.

"What is this place?" I wondered aloud. - I think she's clearly asking the question.

My head leaned to one side. "And you have the key?" - Passive voice. "I tilted my head" is active and less convoluted.

Norma's head began to move in a slow bob and a broad smile spread across her face. - Passive voice. "Norma nodded slowly and started to smile" is active and less convoluted.

My lips formed a pout again. - Passive voice. "I pouted" is better.


Those were all just pulled from a quickie re-read of the first page. Does all of that make sense?

 

[Penelope Street]

Those were all just pulled from a quickie re-read of the first page. Does all of that make sense?

Thanks for your prompt and clear response. This is a bit subtler than the classic active/passive distinction I'm accustomed to seeing. If I'm understanding your point, the passive issue with the neck envelopment sentence isn't really about whether Norma has a big mouth- that's a separate topic. For instance, She wrapped her mouth about his neck might help with the passive issue, while not addressing descriptive accuracy, right?

 

[Omerikon]

For instance, She wrapped her mouth about his neck might help with the passive issue, while not addressing descriptive accuracy, right?

Exactly. "She bit his neck" is clearer and active. You can decide to what degree more description is necessary to paint the scene.

A bit of passive voice can be used to make things more interesting, but it only works when you use it sparingly and creatively. When you go overboard, the story begins to feel like a bunch of disembodied limbs and orfices interacting in mid-air.

 

[Penelope Street]

Certainly something to consider. I think it'd be nice to wrap up this little style hint with an online resource link for those who might want to learn more, but my searches only located what I called the 'classic' passive issue, e.g. "Breakfast was eaten."

 

[Omerikon]

There might be a better word for what I'm describing, but I'm drawing a blank. You're right in that it's not technically passive--as in, "his neck was bitten by Norma's mouth" would be technically passive--but putting emphasis on body parts performing all the actions instead of their owners is definitely something I would try to avoid. (And if anyone can think of a better term to describe that, please chime in.)

 

[Black Tulip]

Like you asked, I skipped the first part of the story.

When I started reading I recognized it from the time it was posted. I read it and left a comment to say I liked it then. So, what I have to contribute now is from a writerly point of view.

I didn't miss the first part. In fact I didn't even go back to read it once I finished the story. And, perhaps more important: I don't remember any of it. And I did remember Norma and her pack of ghostly followers.
I also have a vague notion about a historical site like this in another story. Could that be one of yours too?

To me, Bobby was a side show of sorts. He's a neccessary element, but I didn't cry for him. The real action was with Norma. She was attracted to Amy and I kept wondering if she did involve herself with Amy or not. I couldn't remember clearly. LOL

As I read it, Norma goes from aloof to a form of jealousy. Perhaps wanting to recapture life through Amy. Before the sacrifice she says she wants to be Amy. Maybe you could define that more clearly towards the end of the story. Leaving it to the readers if she intends to stay around Amy or take over her body. Sort of.
Does that make sense?

From the above, you can guess I don't mind the vague ending at all. In fact I think you could add a bit. Making Amy more frightened and unsure when Norma appears again.

Funny? Not in a bwahaha sense, but certainly an inward smile on several occasions.
I enjoyed the uncharacteristic elements, like Bobby's glasses and the podgy vampire.

Speaking of which, there's one part that's confusing. As I understand it, the drive in the blue van is with Norma and Bobby. So how come the podgy vampire leaves the car to open the gates of the historical site?

Sexy? A bit, but the mention of his cold flesh and such interferred with getting into it too much. But that's probably a very personal thing.

I hope this helps.

 

[Penelope Street]

When I started reading I recognized it from the time it was posted. I read it and left a comment to say I liked it then.

Yes, I remember it. Thank you.

I also have a vague notion about a historical site like this in another story. Could that be one of yours too?

I can't recall another setting like this in any of my posted stories, but it wouldn't surprise me since I enjoy visiting such places and trying to imagine how our ancestors experienced their world.

Funny? Not in a bwahaha sense, but certainly an inward smile on several occasions. I enjoyed the uncharacteristic elements, like Bobby's glasses and the podgy vampire.

I think this story would have to be less serious to be bwahaha funny, so inward smiles are kinda what I was hoping to achieve. Maybe Oberikon's right, labeling it a comedy is misleading- though amusement was certainly a goal.

Sexy? A bit, but the mention of his cold flesh and such interferred with getting into it too much. But that's probably a very personal thing.

Agreed! It should be a very personal thing. Cold, leathery flesh isn't an ingredient from the typical erotic writer's cupboard- and with good reason. But I think it's something Amy would have experienced and noticed, so I didn't see how I could really leave it out.

Speaking of which, there's one part that's confusing. As I understand it, the drive in the blue van is with Norma and Bobby. So how come the podgy vampire leaves the car to open the gates of the historical site?

I read that section again and I think maybe this is a sentence that could be a little clearer: I looked about me to discover they had all vanished except Norma and Bobby. What I pictured is the other vampires had all vanished by getting into the van- though at the moment Amy experiences it, all she notices is that they are gone. Part of the issue may be that motor vehicles, and related terminology, differs depending on whether one is in Europe or North America. What does 'minvan' mean in Europe?

The van I had in mind is one of those with three rows of seats, with Bobby, Amy, and Norma occupying the center one adjacent to the sliding side door. In the front seats are the driver and the chubby vampire who later gets out of the passenger door to open the gate to the historical site. The remaining anonymous vampires would be in the very back seat.

To me, Bobby was a side show of sorts. He's a neccessary element, but I didn't cry for him. The real action was with Norma. She was attracted to Amy and I kept wondering if she did involve herself with Amy or not. I couldn't remember clearly. LOL

I agree this story centers upon Amy and Norma's abstruse relationship. What I hoped to suggest is that Amy imagines Norma desiring her in an amorous way, partly because that's a little of what Amy is feeling- even if she hasn't admitted it yet. I also wanted to imply that Amy may be mistaken- in spite of their kiss, maybe Norma really just wants to live vicariously through her. The Brad Pitt comment and Norma's mention of having been married are meant to show that she's always been attracted to men- though this certainly doesn't preclude being interesting in Amy too.

As I read it, Norma goes from aloof to a form of jealousy. Perhaps wanting to recapture life through Amy. Before the sacrifice she says she wants to be Amy. Maybe you could define that more clearly towards the end of the story. Leaving it to the readers if she intends to stay around Amy or take over her body. Sort of.
Does that make sense?

Thank you. I believe you experienced the tale much in the manner I had intended. In my mind, Norma's not all that pleasant and if she had the power take over Amy's body, I believe she would have.

From the above, you can guess I don't mind the vague ending at all. In fact I think you could add a bit. Making Amy more frightened and unsure when Norma appears again.

My original draft ended with Amy's last spoken line. I added the next paragraph because I wanted to show that Amy's been expecting Norma to reappear and even went to the trouble to learn a bit of history in hopes of making a better impression. Also, regardless of what form their relationship takes, I don't think Amy's willing to be bullied even if Norma can kill her at any moment.

I hope this helps.

It does. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us again.

 

[jomar]

Sorry I couldn't get here earlier. I haven't read other posts yet.

Does the story work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?

I didn't really see it as a sexy comedy, thought it certainly did have light moments. Maybe the humor was too subtle overall, or not consistent enough.

Seems like it would be tough to write a sexy comedy with vampires devouring one another.

What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?

Fine. Amy's in touch with her inner slut and would fit right in with my White Trash tailer park crowd.

How did you feel when Bobby died?

Too bad, so sad - next. Actually, a sort of nice turn.

What did you think of the ambiguous ending?

Ambiguous endings I can live with. But this seemed rather abrupt, which is my only quibble.

Would the story have been better without the exposition that precedes the first scene?

Probably. You could have weaved the back story in to the main story pretty easily.

What's the most appropriate category for this story?

Do vampires get to be in erotic couplings?

What did you like best about this tale?

I liked that the vampires didn't kill Amy or turn her yet.

What did you like least?

Some of the phrasing wasn't to my taste, but that could simply that or regional/cultural.

Any additional opinions and observations are also welcome!

Maybe I'll have some after I read other's posts.

Nice story!

 

[bluebell]

Penny, I just quickly wanted to tell you that I'm working up a critique as well (if you're still open to that), but me being me means that it sometimes takes longer than I'd like. Just, FYI.

 

[Black Tulip]

There might be a better word for what I'm describing, but I'm drawing a blank. You're right in that it's not technically passive--as in, "his neck was bitten by Norma's mouth" would be technically passive--but putting emphasis on body parts performing all the actions instead of their owners is definitely something I would try to avoid. (And if anyone can think of a better term to describe that, please chime in.)

Hm, there are two terms that come to mind.
One is personification, but in my language that would mean giving life to inanimate objects.

The other is pars pro toto. Sorry, my simple dictionary doesn't translate that.
No doubt it's called something similar in English.
It's a style figure where you use a part to indicate the whole. Counting noses is the classic teacher's example.

 

[Penelope Street]

... but putting emphasis on body parts performing all the actions instead of their owners is definitely something I would try to avoid.

And all this time I thought men were just fascinated with body parts.

The other is pars pro toto. Sorry, my simple dictionary doesn't translate that.
No doubt it's called something similar in English.
It's a style figure where you use a part to indicate the whole. Counting noses is the classic teacher's example.

Thanks. I'm torn whether this issue is worth discussing at length, like when the style is effective and when not.

Penny, I just quickly wanted to tell you that I'm working up a critique as well (if you're still open to that), but me being me means that it sometimes takes longer than I'd like.

Thank you. I hope you're not spending too much time on what's meant to be a fun, casual discussion?

Amy's in touch with her inner slut and would fit right in with my White Trash tailer park crowd.

Ok, so Amy's slutty and not too bright. But trailer trash? C'mon, the girl's in college!

Ambiguous endings I can live with. But this seemed rather abrupt, which is my only quibble.

Please quibble more. I suppose you could call the ending abrupt, but why is that an issue?

I didn't really see it as a sexy comedy, thought it certainly did have light moments. Maybe the humor was too subtle overall, or not consistent enough.

This seems to be the consensus, that it's not a true comedy- though that may be a terminology issue rather than a real problem since I was trying for subtle and light.

Seems like it would be tough to write a sexy comedy with vampires devouring one another.

*nods*

Some of the phrasing wasn't to my taste, but that could simply that or regional/cultural.

Example, please?

 

[jomar]

I trust overlapping discussions occur from time to time and hope I didn't step on your toes by introducing mine.

Ok, so Amy's slutty and not too bright. But trailer trash? C'mon, the girl's in college!

My trailer trash protag has a master's degree in English. Bring Amy on over!

And while we're on it, this from Amy: "Shut up and fuck me!" I whispered. I had so always wanted to say that!

It's just not believable she'd never said that before!

Please quibble more. I suppose you could call the ending abrupt, but why is that an issue?

On first read it seemed to me to just screech to a stop in mid-something. But on rereading now, I thinks it's fine. Interesting how different moods or whatnot affect perceptions.

So I'll change my quibble. I think it would have been sexier, but still maintain the lightness of the moment, to have Amy smile and whisper in her ear.

This seems to be the consensus, that it's not a true comedy- though that may be a terminology issue rather than a real problem since I was trying for subtle and light.

Subtle and light was good.

Jomar: Some of the phrasing wasn't to my taste, but that could simply that or regional/cultural.

Penelope Street: Example, please?

"Follow her I did."
"Fuck me he did."

Picky, I know. But for some reason on the first read they seemed to be closer together and I noticed it. I probably wouldn't have if there had been just one. Or have though it was an Amy style if she'd said it more. But, like I said, it's me not your story.

 

[Penelope Street]

I trust overlapping discussions occur from time to time and hope I didn't step on your toes by introducing mine.

Not a problem.

My trailer trash protag has a master's degree in English. Bring Amy on over!

I'm sure Amy's so not interested in your snobby deadbeat protag.

And while we're on it, this from Amy: "Shut up and fuck me!" I whispered. I had so always wanted to say that!

It's just not believable she'd never said that before!

Ok- so maybe Amy's not a totally reliable narrator!

Subtle and light was good.

Thank you.

So I'll change my quibble. I think it would have been sexier, but still maintain the lightness of the moment, to have Amy smile and whisper in her ear.

That would be sexier, but I wanted to show Amy wasn't intimidated. Would whispering achieve that goal?

"Follow her I did."
"Fuck me he did."

Picky, I know. But for some reason on the first read they seemed to be closer together and I noticed it. I probably wouldn't have if there had been just one.

Thank you. I don't remember why I chose to phrase it that way.

 

[jomar]

Not a problem.

I'm sure Amy's so not interested in your snobby deadbeat protag.

Oh, please! The girl sneaks off to Dinkytown, of all places, to get some. My protag is far from both snobby or dinky. She'd love to have a go at him!

That would be sexier, but I wanted to show Amy wasn't intimidated. Would whispering achieve that goal?

I think so in that she would be approaching the vampire, not shrinking away, and also underscore the attraction if that's meaningful.

 

[Penelope Street]

Oh, please! The girl sneaks off to Dinkytown, of all places, to get some. My protag is far from both snobby or dinky. She'd love to have a go at him!

So Mr. "I'm-So-Not-Snobby" is already reduced to bragging about size? They say it's good to have dreams, but the key is not to dream too big.

 

[jomar]

So Mr. "I'm-So-Not-Snobby" is already reduced to bragging about size? They say it's good to have dreams, but the key is not to dream too big.

Not to worry. It's not the size of the dream, but how you...uh...hmm...there's a joke there somewhere, but I'll have to get back to you on it!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I apologize for coming to this party so late! Real life has called and I've been away from the boards on some important stuff, but I certainly don't want to miss Penny's piece, so let me at least answer her questions and give some comments.

Does the story work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?

Right off the bat you've plunked the main problem for me. You've written a little comedy here, and that's how I started reading it. As a comedy, I thought it was lovely. You couldn't have done a better job at puncturing the vampire stereotype and then playing with it, and Norma was just fantastic, but I went into light comedy mode and unfortunately, for me, that's a terrible place to read sex or drama from. After you show me Norma and her mini-van, you're never going to get me to take the sex and Bobby's death seriously.

Maybe this is a guy thing, or maybe just a me thing. I like my sex terribly serious. I've got too much at stake pride-wise to mix comedy and sex, and one of them's going to have to go.

But for all that, I think this might be my problem more than yours. Looking at the story, I really don't know how you could have improved the tone or transition there. I'd hate to think that the problem's inherent in the story.


What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?

I thought Norma was great. Bobby was Bobby: a nerd, expendable. I had trouble with Amy. I just have trouble with her type. I don't know what it is. Something about her incaution, her basic looseness. She never engaged my empathy and she always struck me as having dirty feet, as sleeping on other people's couches a lot. I guess that initial pick-up and fuck by the river did it. Once she did that I pretty much figured she deserved whatever happened to her.

How did you feel when Bobby died?

The shameful truth? I had to read it three times to figure out what had happened. As I said, since it was a comedy I knew the sex wouldn't work for me so I was kind of skimming by that part, and the next thing I knew Amy was crying so I knew something had happened but I couldn't figure out what.

I thought that idea - the idea of the test being to judge his control - was brilliant and made the whole story worthwhile. It was the moral of the story, in fact. But I entirely missed it when I first read it. I'm a very sloppy reader,


Overall this was a beautifully crafted story as I'd expect from Penny, and I thought the humor was beautiful. But I wonder about the wisdom of telling it from Amy's POV. It's ultimately a story about the control of uncontrollable passion, and putting that kind of ammunition into the hands of characters like Bobby and Amy to let them play with maybe isn't making the best use of it, in my opinion. Amy knows nothing about control and neither does Bobby, so the lesson's wasted on them. The whole episode kind of becomes just something weird that happens to Amy rather than achieving its full dramatic resonance.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The other is pars pro toto. Sorry, my simple dictionary doesn't translate that.
No doubt it's called something similar in English.
It's a style figure where you use a part to indicate the whole. Counting noses is the classic teacher's example.

I just happened to have to look this up. In English it's called synecdoche or metonymy. As in referring to sailors as hands or calling the monarchy the crown.