Story Discussion: Jan 27, 2008. "Butterfly's Sacrifice" by Penelope Street

[dr_mabeuse]

After that little rhetorical intermission and having read the other comments, I can come back with round two.

I have to say that I really thought Norma was gay. Why, I wonder? The cigarettes? Her name? Her dykey come-on, murdering Mick? The butch gum? (Big Red is awfully butch. Girls don't chew Big Red. It's just a few steps up from Red Man chewing tobacco.) I assumed she was gay and was actually after Amy herself and wasn't too happy about her getting it on with Bobby. I don't know where I got this impression. Their banter in the car seemed like flirtation to me and I knew that Norma would look out for her. Amy's safety was never a concern in my mind. In fact, I pictured Norma in a black teeshirt and leather jacket and motorcycle boots. I thought she was smoking non-filters and had a DA haircut.

Reading the other comments, I agree with Hydra that maybe the other vampires were a bit too obscure. I know you want to avoid a mob scene in a story this short, but I'm really lacking the feeling of a crowd. A few more speaking parts would have solved this.

Bobby's death too. I think it probably should have been made more vivid. As it is, this obscure bunch of vampires just make him neatly disappear, and as I said, stupid me, I blew right past it as I was reading. We don't need Grand Guignol, but what do they do to the sucker? Bite him to death? Or something nastier? A little frisson of horror here would be deliciously sobering and let us know Norma et al play for keeps.

Thinking about this, what you've done is really rather extraordinary. You've taken three genres that don't mix at all - comedy, horror, and porn - and mixed them together. That you succeeded at all is quite something, and it's kind of interesting to think about the way an author can use these elements, either mixing them together or using them sequentially. You pretty much keep them blended throughout, and with Bobby's death I'm asking you to bring out the horror for a moment, to slap the reader with it, and it's kind of a rude trick. But effective, I think.

 

[Penelope Street]

Real life has called and I've been away from the boards on some important stuff

I totally understand. If anyone doesn't that's their problem.

As a comedy, I thought it was lovely. You couldn't have done a better job at puncturing the vampire stereotype and then playing with it, and Norma was just fantastic, but I went into light comedy mode and unfortunately, for me, that's a terrible place to read sex or drama from.

Cool beans. I'm happy to learn someone enjoyed the humor. Is there any chance we'll get to discuss a certain story of yours that plays against vampire stereotypes in a different manner?

Amy knows nothing about control and neither does Bobby, so the lesson's wasted on them.

Oh. I think I failed here, because part of what I wanted to show is that the lesson wasn't totally wasted on Amy.

But I wonder about the wisdom of telling it from Amy's POV. It's ultimately a story about the control of uncontrollable passion, and putting that kind of ammunition into the hands of characters like Bobby and Amy to let them play with maybe isn't making the best use of it, in my opinion.

I adore criticism like this. Thank you. By another POV, I'm thinking you mean to use third-person perspective? I'd love to understand how the tale could be improved in this manner. I've read several tutorials on choosing the right perspective, but I must confess that I still don't quite get it.

I had trouble with Amy. I just have trouble with her type. I don't know what it is. Something about her incaution, her basic looseness. She never engaged my empathy and she always struck me as having dirty feet, as sleeping on other people's couches a lot. I guess that initial pick-up and fuck by the river did it. Once she did that I pretty much figured she deserved whatever happened to her.

I kinda expected you wouldn't like Amy. You're the one I had in mind when I wrote this:

I have a few ideas why [Amy] might not appeal to certain readers, but I'd like to keep mum about it for now because I'm hoping one of those readers will drop by later and say it better than I could like he has a habit of doing!

Except you cheated and didn't say why!

I was curious if anyone would notice there was a non-vampire stereotype I played against too, the standard erotic theme wherein a virtuous maiden experiences great sex and instantly morphs into an ubervixen. I suspect this formula exists for the same reason most formulas do- it's what most readers want. Not giving readers what they want is bound be risky and my plan was to provide almost the opposite. So how would this story work with Norma abducting a paragon of virtue instead of the dreaded dirty-footed minx?

I have to say that I really thought Norma was gay. Why, I wonder? The cigarettes? Her name? Her dykey come-on, murdering Mick? The butch gum? (Big Red is awfully butch. Girls don't chew Big Red. It's just a few steps up from Red Man chewing tobacco.) I assumed she was gay and was actually after Amy herself and wasn't too happy about her getting it on with Bobby. I don't know where I got this impression. Their banter in the car seemed like flirtation to me and I knew that Norma would look out for her. Amy's safety was never a concern in my mind. In fact, I pictured Norma in a black teeshirt and leather jacket and motorcycle boots. I thought she was smoking non-filters and had a DA haircut.

I think yours is an absolutely valid vision of Norma. And flattering too, thank you. I think it would be fun to see an image of how each reader pictured her.

Bobby's death too. I think it probably should have been made more vivid. As it is, this obscure bunch of vampires just make him neatly disappear, and as I said, stupid me, I blew right past it as I was reading. We don't need Grand Guignol, but what do they do to the sucker? Bite him to death? Or something nastier? A little frisson of horror here would be deliciously sobering and let us know Norma et al play for keeps.

I agree, something to really make Amy scream could have been powerful, but it was all I could do to just kill him!

Thinking about this, what you've done is really rather extraordinary. You've taken three genres that don't mix at all - comedy, horror, and porn - and mixed them together.

Thank you.

 

[Black Tulip]

After reading Doc's comments, I have to say Amy struck me as being careless.
An easy girl, who takes risks for a quicky. She get's what's coming to her in a way, only different from what I expected as a reader. So for me, her character works just fine here.

The control issue escaped me, but perhaps that has to do with skipping your introduction.
Or just my density.

Norma to me, seemed like a skinny blonde, catwalk skinny in that I pictured her moving with absolute control and confidence. The cigarettes made me think blasé. Spiky haircut, insolent.
All of this adding up to a not so nice person, but good at getting what she wants.
And therefore intriguing.

 

[Penelope Street]

After reading Doc's comments, I have to say Amy struck me as being careless.
An easy girl, who takes risks for a quicky. She get's what's coming to her in a way, only different from what I expected as a reader. So for me, her character works just fine here.

I agree. At the time Amy tells her story, she even thinks that the Amy in the story was careless:

Looking back, I suppose I was foolish much in the way smokers are- lighting up all the time, one can get used to the danger enough to ignore it. Having taken boys to secluded spots for years, I didn't think twice about my safety. After all, I was going to put out- not as if they needed to rape me.

Norma to me, seemed like a skinny blonde, catwalk skinny in that I pictured her moving with absolute control and confidence. The cigarettes made me think blasé. Spiky haircut, insolent. All of this adding up to a not so nice person, but good at getting what she wants.

Wow. That's really close to what I had in mind. Thank you.

 

[bluebell]

Charming

Thank you. I hope you're not spending too much time on what's meant to be a fun, casual discussion?

Er.
I’m afraid I’m much too much of a detail-obsessed perfectionist for it to ever be a fun and casual discussion. At least, that’s how I’ll justify my dreadful tendency to run on.
See below...

Does the story work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?
I feel like I did catch the comedy. And enjoyed it, too. Admittedly, I'm a fan of blacker humor, the irony of a really strange situation. Situations, for example, like this: "So a vampire drove me to the emergency room to get my tongue stitched up."
I thought that was flippin' fabulous. The deadpan delivery of it in the narrative was just so funny to me. Yet another "WTF?" moment in a long line of weirdnesses for Amy, and I think that's one of the most interesting things the story has going for itself: those truly odd moments that one doesn't quite know what to do with.

I do have to say that I agree entirely with Zoot’s comment about “The whole episode kind of becomes just something weird that happens to Amy rather than achieving its full dramatic resonance.” When coupled with the fact that Bobby’s death is obviously supposed to be a dramatic turning point that can be a little bit easy to miss in its importance, the story begins to feel a little loose. By that I mean there’s a clear plot and pretty clear characters, but the afterthoughts leave me feeling as though the focus on the camera lens was just a trifle off. A bit blurry. Everything is mostly in focus, but the parts that are supposed to be more important get a little bit faded in the wash. It works as it is, but it could be clearer.

One thing I always tell people when I look over their stuff is to think about how much punch they’re lending to certain aspects of the story or the characters. Sometimes there are stories (like “Hole”) where the main purpose is to invoke intangible feelings, doing that by writing certain currents into the text. If the story is more easily read as a linear piece, however, I would recommend taking a few minutes to really clarify which points are the sticking points. What aspects you truly want to highlight to the reader and what won’t bother you as much if the reader skims over items or misses them. A story can have the same rich language and plotting throughout, but a clear goal is usually to have contrasts. Most times, the sharper, the better. That's something you've created in abundance and I'd encourage you to bring that to the surface even more with these three very different personalities.

I don’t know that the story had a presence of overt sexiness. For me, the whole thing played like a movie (guilty admission: Evan Rachel Wood was Amy in my head). The sex itself was written well and I thought you nailed the dynamics of it perfectly, what with the juxtaposition of Amy's disbelief that she even had to participate, and her almost-enjoyment of the whole thing.

I don’t know whether it was purposeful, but I actually liked how the sex scene with Bobby didn't begin as a turn-on but became more fascinating as it continued. Coldly erotic.
I was right there with Amy at the beginning, like, “Whaaaa? I have to do what?!” But the way you wrote it makes the reader (or at least this reader) kind of slide into the situation. By the end it becomes a pleasant moment. A secret moment shared by Amy and Bobby, something that only they are experiencing, despite the numerous pairs of eyes watching them.
I almost got the feeling that it was the most intimate sex Amy had ever allowed herself to have with a guy.
It started off cold, like Bobby’s skin (I loved that, by the way- how cold his skin must have felt), really showcased a more icy touch of sex, and wound up as a warm little pocket in the story. I actually still think about it.

What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?
Okay, I don't actually agree with what people have said about Bobby being too flat of a character. Within three sentences I had him fleshed out in my mind, having met a lot of boys like that. He made sense to me.
I do understand where others are coming from with having a difficult time pegging him as a solid lead. I think there are ways you could push him more to the forefront. Or if not him alone, then all three. Perhaps find a way to leave no question that these three people are supposed to be the foundation on which the story builds (probably in the form of more dialogue). The shadowy-ness of the background vampires could be made even grayer and the vibrancy of these three could be kicked up. You could give them more moments, more opportunities to interact alone and in combination. That would probably help create a more engaging Bobby, possibly evoking more emotion after he dies.

I was aware that Bobby was being killed but I wasn’t too sure of what was happening to him. How they did that. I appreciate that sudden moment of isolation for Amy when they take him away, but I did have some questions about what was going on.
For Amy and Norma, that's a really key moment in their relationship as well. The conversation they have is powerful in the story, but that might be the moment where you would want to evaluate what kind of interaction you'd ultimately like them to have. Most peoples' truest character traits will come out in moments of vulnerability. It was interesting to have Amy be so overwhelmed and Norma be a little flat about it. I do think if you were going to change something in their relationship it could be done at that time.

As an aside, and it’s possible that I’m just being really daft here, but I didn’t understand “the collective” vibe with those vampires. Why did they choose Bobby? How new of a vampire was he? Days? Or hours? And maybe these are points that don’t matter much, but they did pop up for me.

With Amy, I got the feeling that even though this experience was strange and out of the norm for her, she went along with much of it because it was just another thing that she’d seen in this life. I read a slightly hardened edge to her. The kind of girl whose youth is the one thing separating her from the cynicism of an older, slightly haggard woman. Which is why I thought she and Norma made such good foils. Norma actually was kind of an old, haggard and cynical woman (despite her youthful appearance). In fact, I would almost urge you to bring more of that dichotomy in their relationship to the forefront. It’s a really cool dynamic of the story. You've already done so well with sketching out how they view each other; Norma with her jealousy and Amy with her fumbling awe. It's fun.
Maybe you do want to consider what Zoot said about their relationship and the lesbian undertones. Or, if not outright lesbianism, then a slight hint of it under a palpable personal intimacy (which I think you’ve already begun to achieve).

Amy started off as a slightly troublesome character for me because I didn’t really believe her. Or rather, I was thinking, “Great, another tramp-stamped promiscuous girl.” By the end I realized that she is the kind of character who does well to start that way and by the end she's won us over with her quirkiness and personality. She’s funny, a little daft at times (but who wouldn’t be in that situation?), and turns out to be a very likeable character. As does Norma. But I wanted that transition to be more evident. Not glaring, but more obvious that it was a character-based change kicked off by odd circumstances.
Which leads me here…

What did you think of the ambiguous ending?
Would the story have been better without the exposition that precedes the first scene?
I think I’ll answer these two together. Going back to what I was saying about Amy’s transition, I really think the first and last bits should be lopped off (please don’t hurt me, Penny!). To be specific, I think the story should start with the dialogue, “You're the one they call Butterfly, aren't you?" and end with You'd think listening to a vampire tell her life story would be pretty interesting, but I guess she was right after all- I was asleep before we crossed the St. Croix.

The first part is the reason why I had such trouble finding a way to like or even relate to Amy. Her small bit of backstory could be shared in a sentence or two during the club scene. It almost read as a bit too much information.
The last bit just, I’m sorry, but confused the hell out of me. I couldn’t figure out what was going on.
I'm not sure it cemented anything from the night before. It’s cool that she was seeing Norma again, but I thought of the story as being most successful because it captured weird stuff happening that doesn’t make sense, but if it were to make sense, it would have to be at night. In the daylight it isn’t as magical, not as potent. Still, that's a personal preference.

----

One of my only other bugaboos about the story is that I didn’t understand what was going on with Mick. Was he a vampire too, or was he just a weirdo who wanted to rape/hurt/kill her?
I also couldn’t tell if he was supposed to have recognized Norma. His response seemed to indicate that he did but since I wasn’t sure what he was, I didn’t know.

All in all, I think you have a splendid little story here, Penny. If you’re inclined to change anything, go for it, but I did enjoy it. I never had the feeling that I was reading something tedious. I like your light touch.

 

[Penelope Street]

I’m afraid I’m much too much of a detail-obsessed perfectionist for it to ever be a fun and casual discussion.

I'm afraid you're ever so wrong. Who made a rule that says detail-obsessed perfectionists can't be fun?

I don’t know whether it was purposeful, but I actually liked how the sex scene with Bobby didn't begin as a turn-on but became more fascinating as it continued. Coldly erotic. I was right there with Amy at the beginning, like, “Whaaaa? I have to do what?!” But the way you wrote it makes the reader (or at least this reader) kind of slide into the situation. By the end it becomes a pleasant moment.

Cool beans. I knew this would be a difficult transition. How could Amy feel aroused at all, let alone at first? I'd probably never get past wetting myself- and not in a sexy way! It's good to know her shift doesn't require too much suspension of disbelief.

A secret moment shared by Amy and Bobby, something that only they are experiencing, despite the numerous pairs of eyes watching them. I almost got the feeling that it was the most intimate sex Amy had ever allowed herself to have with a guy.

I'm not sure I can express how much this insight means to me, because when writing, I felt it too. With a glimpse of what she's been missing, I don't think Amy's ever going to covet cheap sex again.

I loved that, by the way- how cold his skin must have felt.

Thank you. As a literary moment, I love it too- but whether or not it's sexy is another question.

Within three sentences I had [Bobby] fleshed out in my mind, having met a lot of boys like that.

I've met a few like Bobby too, and I think that's why he works for some and doesn't work for others. He's vague enough if you know someone like him, you can fill in the details. And if you can't, then I guess he's just a disposable nerd.

The conversation they have is powerful in the story, but that might be the moment where you would want to evaluate what kind of interaction you'd ultimately like them to have. Most peoples' truest character traits will come out in moments of vulnerability. It was interesting to have Amy be so overwhelmed and Norma be a little flat about it. I do think if you were going to change something in their relationship it could be done at that time.

Amy stunned and Norma indifferent was my goal, so I guess the question is, was it a worthy goal?

By that I mean there’s a clear plot and pretty clear characters, but the afterthoughts leave me feeling as though the focus on the camera lens was just a trifle off. A bit blurry. Everything is mostly in focus, but the parts that are supposed to be more important get a little bit faded in the wash. It works as it is, but it could be clearer.

So I was being too subtle when it counted most? Would the story have worked better if the brood had shredded Bobby in front of Amy or is that moment of isolation more important than the potential shock? What are the other moments that are a little blurry?

Why did they choose Bobby? How new of a vampire was he? Days? Or hours? And maybe these are points that don’t matter much, but they did pop up for me.

I meant to leave the clan's deeds and motives a mystery while making it clear they believe some higher purpose justifies their actions. Not that I believe it!

One of my only other bugaboos about the story is that I didn’t understand what was going on with Mick. Was he a vampire too, or was he just a weirdo who wanted to rape/hurt/kill her?

He's supposed to be just a weirdo.

I also couldn’t tell if he was supposed to have recognized Norma. His response seemed to indicate that he did but since I wasn’t sure what he was, I didn’t know.

No, Mick is not supposed to recognize Norma. His rapid transformation from predator to prey is supposed to show that Norma has a presence.

Going back to what I was saying about Amy’s transition, I really think the first and last bits should be lopped off (please don’t hurt me, Penny!)

How could I even want to hurt you! I totally agree about the beginning and I can certainly see the potential impact of ending the story right when Amy and Norma are crossing a bridge. At that point, the reader can deduce that Norma's taking Amy home- why not leave it at that? It's another clever idea among many. Thank you.

 

[bluebell]

I'm afraid you're ever so wrong. Who made a rule that says detail-obsessed perfectionists can't be fun?

Heh. I suppose you must be right. My best friend embodies those traits exactly and, needless to say, I enjoy him even at his most anal-retentive.

Cool beans. I knew this would be a difficult transition. How could Amy feel aroused at all, let alone at first? I'd probably never get past wetting myself- and not in a sexy way! It's good to know her shift doesn't require too much suspension of disbelief.

No, I think it's a perfect fusion. It's the catapult between the Amy that's willing to get down and dirty in a public park and the sensitive woman inside her. Both are working in tandem and it works out to be a very good moment.

I'm not sure I can express how much this insight means to me, because when writing, I felt it too. With a glimpse of what she's been missing, I don't think Amy's ever going to covet cheap sex again.

No, and it's funny because that thought never even struck me while I was reading. It wasn't until I was responding with my critique that it came to me. I really really liked realizing that.

Thank you. As a literary moment, I love it too- but whether or not it's sexy is another question.

Exactly! That's what I so adore about it. One of the things I keep coming back to is something an art professor shared with us in college. That even if something (be it visual or written or verbal) creates a violent resistance in you, does that not mean it was still an effective piece of work? Sometimes I agree and other times I waver, but I do enjoy thinking about things from that angle.

I've met a few like Bobby too, and I think that's why he works for some and doesn't work for others. He's vague enough if you know someone like him, you can fill in the details. And if you can't, then I guess he's just a disposable nerd.

Exactly. And even if he doesn't materialize for some readers, he still propels the story.

Amy stunned and Norma indifferent was my goal, so I guess the question is, was it a worthy goal?

I certainly think so. Another one of the intriguing dichotomies of their relationship.
The opposites always make for good torque.

So I was being too subtle when it counted most? Would the story have worked better if the brood had shredded Bobby in front of Amy or is that moment of isolation more important than the potential shock? What are the other moments that are a little blurry?

No, I don't think you were being too subtle when it counted most, I just think the story could benefit from some tightening. Maybe decide what you think is or isn't disposable. I don't know if you paint or draw at all, but maybe thinking of it in shades of color? What's really light gray and doesn't need to be there? What's darker and potent? Where are the gray in-betweens that help fill out the lights and darks?
Bother, that's confusing.
Even though I feel very useless at it myself, I always encourage other people to write like maniacs and then go back and strip it down to its essence before building it back up from there. Because then you get a better sense for what should and shouldn't be there. More punch. But again, that's just a personal preference and it may be completely contrary to how you work.
And, no, I don't think Bobby's death should have happened before their eyes. Perhaps the drama of what was happening could be lengthened, there could be more of a scuffle in getting him out. Maybe Amy is fighting really hard to keep him safe and then Norma is the one who effectively gives the order for him to be killed. I think it sort of went down like that anyway, but I remember needing a few minutes of reflection to figure out just what was happening. I knew he was being killed but the logistics of it were a bit confusing.
I'm not sure any of that was helpful.

I meant to leave the clan's deeds and motives a mystery while making it clear they believe some higher purpose justifies their actions. Not that I believe it!

Ha!

He's supposed to be just a weirdo.

Double ha! He makes a good weirdo. I liked the fact that it was so sudden and unexpected. Another good moment where I was carried along with Amy.

How could I even want to hurt you! I totally agree about the beginning and I can certainly see the potential impact of ending the story right when Amy and Norma are crossing a bridge. At that point, the reader can deduce that Norma's taking Amy home- why not leave it at that? It's another clever idea among many. Thank you.

You are so welcome. Thanks for putting it out here for us to look at.

 

[Penelope Street]

No, I don't think you were being too subtle when it counted most, I just think the story could benefit from some tightening. Maybe decide what you think is or isn't disposable. I don't know if you paint or draw at all, but maybe thinking of it in shades of color? What's really light gray and doesn't need to be there? What's darker and potent? Where are the gray in-betweens that help fill out the lights and darks?

Bother, that's confusing.

Good. Because I'm confused. Is the basic idea that the story has too much fluff?

 

[Black Tulip]

Good. Because I'm confused. Is the basic idea that the story has too much fluff?

Not sure, but to me it reads as if Bluebell means it needs sharpening the focus.
(I like your comparison with painting, Bluebell)
But that could be me, since I think it would be even better for it.

 

[Penelope Street]

Not sure, but to me it reads as if Bluebell means it needs sharpening the focus.

(I like your comparison with painting, Bluebell)

But that could be me, since I think it would be even better for it.

Thank you. Maybe I need to be a painter to get this? How does one sharpen the focus of a story? Does it have to do with leaving perhaps too many things open to interpretation?

 

[Black Tulip]

Thank you. Maybe I need to be a painter to get this? How does one sharpen the focus of a story? Does it have to do with leaving perhaps too many things open to interpretation?

I'll try to find and work out an example.

 

[bluebell]

Good. Because I'm confused. Is the basic idea that the story has too much fluff?

Well, I think BT said what I was trying to say, but in a much better (not to mention more concise!) way. The focus could do with a bit of sharpening.
This is confusing to explain, and thinking about it now, I don't even know if it can be "fixed" or if it needs to be. It could just be something I read into the story that isn't relevant, but I'll attempt an explanation.

Basically, the plot points are fixed marks of action and they all happen for a reason.
Within those confines, the characters don't seem to be actively seeking to arrive at those destinations. They seem to meander a little until you shepherd them into the appropriate corral. They don't appear to be in total control of what's going on.
Which is why I've gone and confused myself. Because you're the boss of the story and can write it how you choose. The fact of the matter is the stuff gets done that needs done and there it is. Now, why do I care about how it arrives there?

So that's why I'm now even questioning the validity of my raising this point to you.
But I hope my explanation made a teensy bit of sense.

I like your comparison with painting, Bluebell

Thank you, lovey.

 

[Penelope Street]

I'll try to find and work out an example.

Thanks Bunches. Even small examples often do wonders for my understanding. You are too kind.

Basically, the plot points are fixed marks of action and they all happen for a reason.
Within those confines, the characters don't seem to be actively seeking to arrive at those destinations. They seem to meander a little until you shepherd them into the appropriate corral. They don't appear to be in total control of what's going on.

Thank you. It must be frustrating trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't seem to get it, but I wouldn't want you to imagine I didn't appreciate the effort.

 

[bluebell]

Thank you. It must be frustrating trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't seem to get it, but I wouldn't want you to imagine I didn't appreciate the effort.

Dearest, darlingest Penny. *hug* No! Not at all!
I think typing thoughts out can be confusing for both parties, especially when it comes to writing critiques. I like to help people, so I would seriously sit here and give you about five hundred different analogies/explanations until we found one that made sense to both of us. I mean, as long as you weren't fed up and thinking that I was a pompous ass for sticking my foot in it all the time about stupid stuff. I have a feeling that you always appreciate effort exerted, especially on your behalf. You're good like that.

 

[Penelope Street]

I think typing thoughts out can be confusing for both parties, especially when it comes to writing critiques. I like to help people, so I would seriously sit here and give you about five hundred different analogies/explanations until we found one that made sense to both of us. I mean, as long as you weren't fed up and thinking that I was a pompous ass for sticking my foot in it all the time about stupid stuff. I have a feeling that you always appreciate effort exerted, especially on your behalf. You're good like that.

Helping often involves criticism, but it's the helping part that's important. Thank you. If this topic justifies several hundred explanations, does it deserve a thread of its own?

 

[bluebell]

Helping often involves criticism, but it's the helping part that's important. Thank you. If this topic justifies several hundred explanations, does it deserve a thread of its own?

No, no. I think it was a strange intangible feeling I had and now it seems to have spiraled into something I didn't want it to be. Are you super concerned now?

 

[Penelope Street]

Are you super concerned now?

Concerned isn't the right word. Curious would be much closer.

 

[Black Tulip]

I haven't forgotten my offer to find an example.
It's just off line life interfering.

 

[Penelope Street]

I totally understand. Don't even worry about it.

 

[bluebell]

Concerned isn't the right word. Curious would be much closer.

I think the most clarified I was able to make it so far was about the characters floundering somewhat within the plot. They obviously had clear intentions with both Bobby and Amy. The vampires knew where they needed to go and what they needed to do (to fetch Bobby a sacrifice and then go back to where they could test him on it), but it seemed as if they were stumbling around inside that for awhile. Like, the lot of them suffered from A.D.D. or something. They had goals but got distracted easily, shuffled around- not so worried about time, so it gives the story a looseness.

And my struggle is not necessarily the looseness itself, it's more that I wonder if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here, or whether it does weaken the story to some extent. Or even whether it adds an odd charm to the whole thing- strange night full of strange activities and almost nomadic vampires.

I think my most accessible example would be how Norma reacts to Amy. It reads as a complete accident that Norma even likes Amy. But the flip side is I find it charming that you get this world-weary vampire, who is used to seeing silly girls scream night after night, finally encounter one who doesn't. And what's more, she can actually converse and give Norma a little kick of humor in her otherwise (seemingly) by rote life.

So, Pennylicious, it appears that we're at a kooky standstill. I'm seeing this quality in the story but I'm questioning whether it's a valid concern.
And you, well, I imagine poor you are just trying to hang into my balloon string and figure out what the hell I'm talking about.

 

[Penelope Street]

I think the most clarified I was able to make it so far was about the characters floundering somewhat within the plot. They obviously had clear intentions with both Bobby and Amy. The vampires knew where they needed to go and what they needed to do (to fetch Bobby a sacrifice and then go back to where they could test him on it), but it seemed as if they were stumbling around inside that for awhile. Like, the lot of them suffered from A.D.D. or something. They had goals but got distracted easily, shuffled around- not so worried about time, so it gives the story a looseness.

I'm not worried so much if the vampires wander about and don't seem worried about time's passage- because they aren't. Why would they be? Norma even instructs the van driver to take the scenic route. If the story wanders with them and doesn't build character along the way, that's an issue.

I think my most accessible example would be how Norma reacts to Amy. It reads as a complete accident that Norma even likes Amy.

I don't think Norma expects to like Amy- after all, Bobby picked her, not Norma. So I guess it is an accident in that sense. I'm not sure why that might be a problem.

... I imagine poor you are just trying to hang into my balloon string and figure out what the hell I'm talking about.

Well, that and I don't want you to float away.

Don't imagine I don't appreciate your balloons. I still smile when I think about your idea of ending the story with Norma and Amy driving off into the night together.

I'm willing to wait for Tulip's thoughts to see if light from another source illuminates things in a different manner. Like Norma, I'm really not in a hurry. Until then, maybe we should focus on one of the other discussions that have started after this one?

 

[WearMeWell]

Welcome back. I hope you've finished the tale, because if not, I'm about to ruin it.

I meant for "Butterfly's Sacrifice" to play against vampire lore and be something of a parody- yet not too silly and still with the potential for arousal. So my first question is, does it work as a sexy comedy or did I try to do too much with it?

*Deep curtsey. *guniea pig here* slight wave and smile~ To me, it worked as a sexual comedy. Though i didn't find myself cackling outloud with glee, i did giggle aloud more than once. *Smile~

What did you think of the three central characters, Amy, Bobby, and Norma, and how they interact?

I loved the developement between Amy and Norma, and Amy and Bobby; the power, the "warming," the surprises, all fleshing out and "endearing" the story.(in my opinion) The interaction between Bobby and Norma seemed set in stone, fairly immobile; but I found that good as too much more would have possibly caused distraction.

How did Bobby's death work for you? Was it especially shocking coming right after the erotic scene? This was a late change to the story and I spent an entire week just pondering whch way to go with it before deciding the tale lacked bite if Bobby lived. I was really sad that he died, but my editors didn't seem to care! Did you?

Indeed. Very shocking. I cared alot and hated that he died. A very poignant point in the story and very eloquently handled. As exquisitely painful as that scene was, it is one of my favorites for the way it was delivered. (barbarous as that may sound) Very well done. *deep curtsey

The ending is meant to be ambiguous about what happens next. The primary point I wanted to get across was that Amy has changed. Does it work? What do you imagine happens next?

It works, and well. With your wording, it's obvious that all the colors and facets of Amy's experience have changed her view; of herself, and the world. The zinger of the police pounding at her door Sunday morning was very nice.(in my opinion.) Kind of a "perk me up" after the down time of doubting and self reflection after all that edge riding action.

Since the Policemen do not seem at all surprised to see or hear Norma suddenly, I entertained thoughts of them all kowing each other already.
As for where my brain took it from there,...Let's just say it's late, I'm sliding off a caffein and sugar rush, and my brain isnt the safest place. *smirks~

Would the story have been better without Amy's opening history lesson, the one that precedes the first scene?

As i stated at the opening of my comments, I chose the "guniea pig" route. I liked the story just fine. I still haven't read the "opening history lesson." Amy's character fleshed out well through the story, in my opinion, and I thoroughly enjoyed the story without the opening history lesson.

I wrote that piece for myself, mostly just to establish the character and try to get into Amy's frame of mind, and hopefully give her a voice at least a little different from some of my other characters. My plan was to delete it from the final form and blend in any necessary information elsewhere. I had in mind using the conversation in the van when they travel to the old structure, but it felt like such an action spoiling information dump that I decided against it. I considered just deleting the opening piece, but when I asked my editors about it, they felt strongly about keeping it. Because I didn't feel that strongly about deleting it, I left it, but I've kinda regretted it since.

I'm not an editor, nor have I delivered opinions on many stories, but, if you're "regretting it," take it out? I love the story as I read it, and really hesitiate going back to read the opening history lesson because of that fact. *probably along the same line of reasoning as to why i refuse to see the "new" Superman movie, instead keeping my wonder and love of the Old ones. *call me sentimental. LOL

What's the most appropriate category? I considered erotic horror, but I didn't think it quite frightening enough, so I chose non-human instead. Was there a third choice I missed?
*Forgive me if i refrain on this one, having no idea -being so new to Literotica stories. (your story is my second read here.*Smile~ (and I'm So glad it was.)

I also thought the repetiton worked well.

Funny how long a minute can be. And not.

and the other like it

*storms here, gotta run

Thank you so much for the story.

*Deep curtsey
WMW~

 

[Penelope Street]

To me, it worked as a sexual comedy. Though i didn't find myself cackling outloud with glee, i did giggle aloud more than once.

Hi WMW,

Thanks bunches for reading my story and taking the time to compose such a thoughtful response. Giggles and smiles were the kind of comedy I was hoping for. It is gratifying to know that at least a few readers experienced Amy's tale much in the manner I had intended.

I'm not an editor, nor have I delivered opinions on many stories, but, if you're "regretting it," take it out?

I probably should, but I always seem to find something else to do with that half-hour, you know?

I cared alot and hated that [Bobby] died. A very poignant point in the story and very eloquently handled.

Those who have responded thusfar seem to be evenly divided over whether or not Bobby's demise would have been more effective with Amy as a witness. Go figure!

Since the policemen do not seem at all surprised to see or hear Norma suddenly, I entertained thoughts of them all knowing each other already.

I think the uniformed men and Norma are clearly acquaintances. Whether they are really policemen is another issue.

Thank you so much for the story.

Thank you for joining us and I hope we'll see you again soon!

Take Care,
Penny

 

[WearMeWell]

Hi WMW,


I probably should, but I always seem to find something else to do with that half-hour, you know?

* I know, i know...OH how i know...*lol (*feels a dirge coming on...*lol, Smirks)

Those who have responded thusfar seem to be evenly divided over whether or not Bobby's demise would have been more effective with Amy as a witness. Go figure!
*blood-hounds. (just kidding) I actually pondered that, -- but that would have just added gore, in my opinion. The style with which you handled it was, ...elegant-- and i liked it very much. *Smile~

I think the uniformed men and Norma are clearly acquaintances. Whether they are really policemen is another issue.

*Nods, My brain walked all over that, even "retreading" various aspects in high heels. *

Thank you for joining us and I hope we'll see you again soon!

Take Care,
Penny

*Deep curtsey...Indeed my pleasure