A different POV question (writerly)

[yui]

Depends. I think a 1st person narrator-kinda figure can be completely separated from the protagonist ("Gather around, folks, and let me tell you a story. Come closer, don't be shy. Now, if I recall correctly, this happened in the year of 1517, the Year Of The Beaver...")

In my mind, say, "Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" has a narrator because we are learning things above and beyond what the protagonist is aware of. I am quite likely completely wrong, but in my little mind, this is how I distinguish between third person styles.

 

[tolyk]

In my mind, say, "Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" has a narrator because we are learning things above and beyond what the protagonist is aware of. I am quite likely completely wrong, but in my little mind, this is how I distinguish between third person styles.

Well, there is more than one type of 3rd person. Sometimes 3rd can feel very simliar to 1st, just no I's..

3rd person can be written from the view of one character but by a narrator. It can also switch between characters telling the story, or just be an omni-knowledgable presence that knows the thoughts of different characters..

Etc etc..

 

[Liar]

Ok, let me lear up my explanations and understand this is what I remeber from my english lit classes in high school.

1st person is the story told from the persective of the primary character in the story.

2nd Person is the story told from the perspective of a supporting character in the story but focused on the primary character. (as in Dr. Watson telling the story of Holmes)

3rd person is the story being told by an outside narrater who plays no part in the story itself.

Did that make sense?

I'm afraid your English classes taught it wrong. It's like Yui says. It's not about the characters of the story, and who's emotion's and experiences we are told. It's about how the narration adresses the reader.

I am telling this story to you.
You are a character, and are experiencing the story.
This, is a story, there are the characters. The narration just is.

 

[Guest]

 

[yui]

Well, there is more than one type of 3rd person. Sometimes 3rd can feel very simliar to 1st, just no I's..

3rd person can be written from the view of one character but by a narrator. It can also switch between characters telling the story, or just be an omni-knowledgable presence that knows the thoughts of different characters..

Etc etc..

Hi tolyk.

Right, there is third person limited and third person omniscient (with the omniscient leaning more toward the role of narrator in my mind, at least).

 

[Guest]

Ok, it appears I was just taught wrong, or my memory ain't as sharp as it used to be. Maybe both.

Thanks everyone. I was dyin' to get that cleared up. I'll be a lot less foosed now.

 

[elsol]

Ok, let me lear up my explanations and understand this is what I remeber from my english lit classes in high school.

1st person is the story told from the persective of the primary character in the story.

2nd Person is the story told from the perspective of a supporting character in the story but focused on the primary character. (as in Dr. Watson telling the story of Holmes)

3rd person is the story being told by an outside narrater who plays no part in the story itself.

Did that make sense?

No...

First Person:
I walked into the bedroom and was pleasantly surprised to find my wife screwing my best friend. Pleasantly, because I was fucking his wife and had been been feeling somewhat guilty.

Second Person:

You walked into the bedroom and felt awash with relief. Your best friend was at that moment riding your wife of twelve yeras. You felt the guilt of the six year affair with his wife wash away from you.

Third Person:

Jeremiah walked into the his bedroom and froze. His wife and best friend were blissfully playing hide the banana on his bed. Jeremiah smiled feeling the guilt of his long-standing affair with his best friend's wife wash away.


The Watson POV is a special type of First Person POV...
Sort of like the Limony Spicket character...

It's a narrator telling a story whose protagonist is someone else.

A bad example:

Jeremy stopped at the door to his bedroom.

"Dude, what the fuck!" I said after bumping into him.

I didn't have to ask anymore when I looked over his shoulder and saw Smittee doing Jeremy's wife.

Jeremy had the weirdest look on his face, like he'd been constipated for years and it suddenly came out.

"Oh shit!" I said figuring it out. "You've been fucking Smittee's wife, haven't you?"

"Yes, I have," he said smiling and closing the door.

I was going to have to spend more time with my friends to see how this all worked out.

--- Again a bad example but you see how the 'I' in the last example isn't actually involved in the 'action' of the story... he's narrating the story about something else to you.


Sincerely,

ElSol

 

[brightlyiburn]

Actually, first person can be told by the primary characters. Not a lot of people do it, because it's hard to pull off, but check out Carol Berg if you want a good example of how it's done.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

This is frightening.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. I’m new at AH (and will get booted out of here for being pissy) but I can’t imagine anything more elemental than POV for aspiring authors, which I assume is the bedrock of this forum. If *readers* are posting here to inquire about POV, no prob. But if *writers* are inquiring or debating POV, keyboards should be viewed as dangerous instruments. Go back to square one. Learn POV. It ain’t rocket science.

My (first person) apologies for the outburst.

 

[brightlyiburn]

This is frightening.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. I’m new at AH (and will get booted out of here for being pissy) but I can’t imagine anything more elemental than POV for aspiring authors, which I assume is the bedrock of this forum. If *readers* are posting here to inquire about POV, no prob. But if *writers* are inquiring or debating POV, keyboards should be viewed as dangerous instruments. Go back to square one. Learn POV. It ain’t rocket science.

My (first person) apologies for the outburst.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. However, since a lot of people who write learn to do it on their own, they can be more than capable of writing in proper POVs without fully understanding the technical definitions. I couldn't tell you what a conjunction or an adverb is, but I can tell you that I do use them, and use them correctly.

 

[tolyk]

This is frightening.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. I’m new at AH (and will get booted out of here for being pissy) but I can’t imagine anything more elemental than POV for aspiring authors, which I assume is the bedrock of this forum. If *readers* are posting here to inquire about POV, no prob. But if *writers* are inquiring or debating POV, keyboards should be viewed as dangerous instruments. Go back to square one. Learn POV. It ain’t rocket science.

My (first person) apologies for the outburst.

Yes, you're quite right about that being pissy. However the fact is that one doesn't need to be good at english to be a good storyteller. Sometimes writing well comes with practise.

 

[elsol]

This is frightening.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. I’m new at AH (and will get booted out of here for being pissy) but I can’t imagine anything more elemental than POV for aspiring authors, which I assume is the bedrock of this forum. If *readers* are posting here to inquire about POV, no prob. But if *writers* are inquiring or debating POV, keyboards should be viewed as dangerous instruments. Go back to square one. Learn POV. It ain’t rocket science.

My (first person) apologies for the outburst.

People can do things without knowing the 'rhetoric' of what they're doing.

What's an Impact Character?

How are they used?

Why are they VITAL to most stories?


That's rhetoric... I had to be taught that, but when going through my stories, it's obvious that I was NATURALLY using this writing tool even when I had no clue what it was.

It's because I had been reading it since I first picked up a book.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Guest]

This is frightening.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. I’m new at AH (and will get booted out of here for being pissy) but I can’t imagine anything more elemental than POV for aspiring authors, which I assume is the bedrock of this forum. If *readers* are posting here to inquire about POV, no prob. But if *writers* are inquiring or debating POV, keyboards should be viewed as dangerous instruments. Go back to square one. Learn POV. It ain’t rocket science.

My (first person) apologies for the outburst.

Yep. That was pretty pissy. I didn't say i didn't know how to write them. I was just confused on which style the terms refered to. Now if you'ld like to show your PhD and your teaching credentials I'll be glad to welcome you to the AH.

But chill the attitude, Dick.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

However, since a lot of people who write learn to do it on their own, they can be more than capable of writing in proper POVs without fully understanding the technical definitions.

Point well made. I have a vague recollection of diagramming sentences, but would not today be able to recall the details of that. Much of writing is instinctive.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

Yes, you're quite right about that being pissy. However the fact is that one doesn't need to be good at english to be a good storyteller. Sometimes writing well comes with practise.

I won't argue with that. Good english is not required to be a good storyteller. But I guess I come from the perspective of aspiring to be published, and those folks tend to be picky. And yes, we all learn from practice. Even pissy folks like me.

 

[tolyk]

I won't argue with that. Good english is not required to be a good storyteller. But I guess I come from the perspective of aspiring to be published, and those folks tend to be picky. And yes, we all learn from practice. Even pissy folks like me.

Practice and tough-love editors.

 

[cookiejar]

This is frightening.

Excuse me for sounding pissy. I’m new at AH (and will get booted out of here for being pissy) but I can’t imagine anything more elemental than POV for aspiring authors, which I assume is the bedrock of this forum. If *readers* are posting here to inquire about POV, no prob. But if *writers* are inquiring or debating POV, keyboards should be viewed as dangerous instruments. Go back to square one. Learn POV. It ain’t rocket science.

My (first person) apologies for the outburst.

Wow! I guess I don't belong here because I always get POV mixed up.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

Practice and tough-love editors.

Hey, an editor with *any* kinda love would be welcome here. I'm in the early stages of shopping a novel. Sorry if I did a Vesuvius on AH, just got a rejection from my favorite author's agent.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

Wow! I guess I don't belong here because I always get POV mixed up.

(((( Cookie ))))

smile?

 

[cookiejar]

(((( Cookie ))))

smile?

No problem...it's the blonde in me coming out.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

No problem...it's the blonde in me coming out.

What are the rules here in AH? Can we catch up? Flirt? Or do we need an underground trunk line NY-NJ-Toronto-Seattle-Portland-Pissy Guy?

 

[cookiejar]

What are the rules here in AH? Can we catch up? Flirt? Or do we need an underground trunk line NY-NJ-Toronto-Seattle-Portland-Pissy Guy?

No idea, I am the poor relation here. I just hang around the real authors.

 

[EarthquakeMan]

I just hang around the real authors.

And you aren't one?

Or was that just a well deserved shot across my bow. Or brow comma high.

 

[Guest]

So what do tou call it if you are writing about you but you didn't really do it and didn't even think of it till you wrote it but youd like to try it if you could find someone who didn't mind the lime jello and cole slaw all over the cedar chest and the horse is the real main character of the story?

Debbie

 

[cookiejar]

So what do tou call it if you are writing about you but you didn't really do it and didn't even think of it till you wrote it but youd like to try it if you could find someone who didn't mind the lime jello and cole slaw all over the cedar chest and the horse is the real main character of the story?

Debbie

Sounds interesting. I am just finishing "Texas Two Step" but unfortunately no cole slaw or jello. Where did I go wrong?