AH - not a safe space

[NaokoSmith]

Woo-hoo, this has been a busy thread while I was away for a day! Plenty of evidence of all kinds for anyone who might have imagined this is a cosy safe backwater.

This was the reason I posted. I was writing a blogpost about a comic strip on consent, which shows men and women that No means No in sexual situations exactly as it does when you say: "No, I don't fancy having guacamole today." I was in conversation with a writer who told me she and others were being harrassed by someone who pretended to edit for them. She was wondering if she should expect that kind of thing when writing erotica online. I said: "F*ck, no. You might not be surprised that it happens, because it happens everywhere, but you should tell that jerk to p!ss off. I know many many people who edit smut online and who are entirely respectful, and that is what you should demand from your editor." Fearing there are others who secretly have to put up with this, and think they will not get support for being harrassed on here, I put up this thread.

Women are always at risk of disrespect in public. Yesterday I had to go to meet a student and sort out her essay, and while I was travelling home on the train - at about 5 in the afternoon, a drunken guy leant over my netbook which I was avidly reading, to introduce himself. When he finally got off the train, he spent five minutes hanging outside the window signalling to me that I should contact him via Facebook. This is the second time this year, that I have been accosted on public transport in the afternoon while travelling back from work.

The incident on Mumsnet involved a young pregnant woman whose partner was constantly playing war games online. They had to share a computer and I think really she was hoping someone might offer her an old computer so she could do other stuff while he was playing, but she was also asking if it was fair to expect him to come and cuddle up to her at night instead of always playing online games. Some of us told her of course that was fair and tried to suggest ways she could get him to do this. Others ripped into her, telling her she and her partner were lazy laybouts, leeches on the benefits system (she had not said they were claiming), etc etc. I did PM her myself to say how sorry I was she had been subject to such abuse. She went back on later to say her partner was ex-military suffering PTSD, I hope those right wing trolls took that and smoked it.

Why did I think I should post this thread? I was concerned that because I am relaxed and chat happily on this particular board, other women might think that is because it's a safe space. The truth is, as some of you comment, I can do that because I would be a dangerous person to stalk, PM or otherwise bother.

This is a place where I have found great friendship and where I have a lot of fun. I know that I may easily come on here and get a load of abuse and hassle, although not usually explicit PMs. I continue to come on here as I find good advice about writing, and about life in general acksherly.

Come on and post here, however remember that as in anywhere public, you will be targetted for weird stuff. Do not think that that is acceptable just because this is an erotica site. It is no more acceptable than it was for those drunken men to make passes at me on trains. Be willing to tell people to p!ss off, to put them on Ignore etc. This is luckily easier to do online than it is on a train, when a drunk may get shirty and behave even worse if you p!ss him off

It is not hard to find out who I am. I post freely here. I can do this because I am in an unusual situation:
- When I started posting on here, I was in a really bad way and I needed advice and support so much that I had to ask for it on an erotica site. I didn't care if I was found out, that was nothing compared to what I was going through.
- I made some of the best friends in my life on here. I did this by getting to know them slowly, finding out about them before I trusted them, and certainly not through them PMing me rudely.
- If I think someone is weird on here, I don't bother with them. I am not going to take a risk.
- I am 52 and a f*cking ball-breaking feminist, so it is obvious that I will laugh loudly and publicly humiliate anyone who harrasses me on here - like I did to that guy long ago who tried to chat me up by pretending to be interested in rugby then said he thought I would look good in the showers. (He is the last one to try it on me, on here.)
- If anyone shows up stalking me in Real Life it should be obvious that I am the sort of person who will call the police and get that person into serious trouble.
- I do my erotica work partly as a genuine Sex Education project to help young people, so if my employers find out, I can say: "And ...?" A lot of people in my Real Life know what I do and admire me for it. I am not in danger if I am outed as an erotica writer. (Even the Fella admires me for it - although sadly he was not interested personally in my writing - so he will not try to take Piglet off me for being a smut writer.)
- I think it's clear that men are welcome to come and meet me instead of travelling on trains hoping to see me editing someone's story on my netbook - 'slong as they are willing to provide a bottle of Perrier Jouet Belle Epoque and some diamonds It's not the expense that puts them off, LOL. It's that dangerous whiff of commitment in the word 'diamonds'.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Yeah, that has me bowled over as well. The GB is a cesspool of hitting on women and just hitting anyone in the nastiest way when compared to the AH. And yet glynndah has her own thread running there at the moment.

Glynndah, I am very sorry that you came in for such remarks after posting in this thread. Especially as I have missed you posting in here very much. I am gutted that you should have braved coming back to post in here, which I know you will have done to offer support to women experiencing the double standards of 'you are only allowed to be sexy when it suits me, not when it suits you', and perhaps been driven back out again now.

I have been offered the opportunity to take this thread down. Although it's full of abuse from the usual suspects, there is some discussion in here about the way women experience harrassment which I am inclined to think is of value so I am not minded to ask for it to be taken down yet. Please let me know if you would like it taken down since you have so unfairly come in for personal attack in it.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Correction. There were a couple of instances in which young guys, accidentally in earshot, had more potential than the adults. And I wonder if adult society twists people up in very negative ways.

It's certainly not true either, that women are without fault or blameless in these matters on their own account. All in all I don't believe society has 'worked it out' yet. Not by a long shot.

The beauty of writing is that you can alter and edit your words and in the end make things sound reasonably seamless.

But then, this is still not necessarily reflective of 'real' reality, in which some of the best 'lines' amount to: 'eeeerrrgghhh, blllbbbb, mmmrr, agh fuck, burnt me mouth/stubbed me toe/jammed me finger. Yeouch! ...mutha fuckin' fuckin fuck fuck fffuck.'

While watching the news last night it impressed me how most people are functionally psychotic. Philosophy, grammar, logic, math, and law were invented to blaze trails thru the nonsense but remain safely beyond the ken of most.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

.....

 

[geronimo_appleby]

zoom!

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

While watching the news last night it impressed me how most people are functionally psychotic. Philosophy, grammar, logic, math, and law were invented to blaze trails thru the nonsense but remain safely beyond the ken of most.

'Functionally psychotic.'

The surprise to me is the 'functional' part. They are functional. But psychotic.

I never used to say these sorts of things. Because I thought people would think I was an arrogant, conceited SOB if I said it and besides, I'm pretty sure I used to hide the thought from myself anyway. But I am well over fifty now - even though, seriously, my wife got asked for ID the other day to buy cigarettes(absolutely true) and at parties people who know me play this game about guessing ages: the highest people have guessed for me so far was 32!!!!!!

How the fuck does the world go on? Beats the hell out of me. Don't get me wrong - I like the world, but there is no way I would treat most people you know especially in the public sphere, as if they were sane. They are not sane. What drugs are they using to deliver complete sentences on television with uncontorted faces?

Max Keiser acts insane and all, but he's sane.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

My answer is everyone has to put on big person pants (yoga or otherwise) and deal. Men and women are both capable of being incredibly prickish to each other. So?
>snip<
Just today i read about some college girl who filed a sexual misconduct report against a professor.

. . .if you're unaware that ancient epics contain a fair amount of sketchy sex, you probably should not have made it to college. If you can't handle the fact that historic and mythic accounts contain nonconsent sex, you have an issue, not the professor.

Hands, I've thought twice before replying at all, and twice more before deciding to reply in another forum post by another man in a thread that's clearly designed to support women. Still, here I am.

I agree 100% with your opening line that both genders are capable of being incredibly prickish to each other.

But here's my concern, and it's not aimed at you - it's aimed at the all the guys following and posting in this thread: When we discount the generality with a specific example, we're still guilty of discounting the generality.

It's a bit like the argument over the hashtag #NotAllMen. I was confused by the hub-bub over that. Yes, it's very true that NAMALT, but pointing that out dilutes the discussion that TOO many men ARE like that.

I can guess at the type of unwelcomed advances women are subjected to in today's society, but it's only a guess. And when a woman (or women) point out: "Hey, this happens more often than you imagine," I believe we should listen and apply some weight to their voice of experience.

Should some people grow a thicker skin? Sure. But the converse is equally true. People shouldn't suffer in silence, either. If something is wrong, it's wrong. Asking "Is this wrong?" should be encouraged. People are often self-correcting. We're entitled to our opinions and defending our position. However, dismissing the other person's opinion doesn't prove a point, it merely suggests being closeminded.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

NaokoSmith - no way did I ever form the impression in my mind from anything I have read from you, that you were a 'ball-bustin' feminist.'

Never got that impression at all.

Would have supposed you had the capacity to 'handle situations' that was for certain.

'Ball-bustin' feminist.' I don't believe that.

Feminist? Sure. Why not.

'Ball-bustin'...' Never got that impression.

It would be interesting, to have a 'ball-bustin' feminist' appear in a noir movie with JBJ as the hardboiled, hard-nosed, owner of a snub-nosed .38 - god what a fuckin' fight that would be. Holly Holm meets well, JBJ, I guess.

Kick to the head. Kick to the balls. JBJ is sprawled out on the ground, blood oozing from a gash near his nose. Through fogged-up, bourbon-eyed vision, he sees the tall, svelte, taught-muscled figure of an angry blonde, with Borsalino large-brimmed hat pushed back over her tied back hair, strong legs spread apart in her dark skirt standing over him.

He goes for his gun. And she kicks him in the balls again.

Like I said: 'Aaarrggghh. Bbbbllllrrrrbb, burrbbbllle burble burble. I just want to fuck you. Argh, awwwrrr. Ga-a-a-a-wd. Fuckin' bitch. Now you've busted my balls. What's the point of that??'

She falls madly in love.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Should some people grow a thicker skin? Sure. But the converse is equally true. People shouldn't suffer in silence, either. If something is wrong, it's wrong. Asking "Is this wrong?" should be encouraged. People are often self-correcting. We're entitled to our opinions and defending our position. However, dismissing the other person's opinion doesn't prove a point, it merely suggests being closeminded.

My belief is the more women whine about what jerks men are, the more men will treat them badly. It's not that different from pulling hair on the playground, and if you get tears, pulling it again.

No amount of discussion is going to change male behaviour when it comes to ogling and commenting. Men behave better in America than they do in most of the world, but my sense is there's an emerging umwelt full of resentment in the American/European male world because of that. Complaining we do not, in fact, act like women, just pushes buttons. "He looked at me!" isn't ever going to be taken as a serious complaint by a guy who already thinks he's being a gentleman for not fondling your ass. And plenty think that way.

That said, I'm talking about verbal, written, and visual flirting and accosting. As soon as it crosses a line and becomes an unwanted touching, take the jerk down by any means necessary, including legal proceedings. If they can't control their hands they need some jail time. Save the complaints, in other words, for the times when a judge can act on an unambiguous situation. "Look don't touch" is a reasonable social goal to shoot for. "Always treat me with respect in thought, word and deed." is too much to ask; men don't treat each other that way and there's even less genetic incentive to treat women that way.

Trust me, women do shit that infuriates men, too. I realise it's not an equal dynamic because women have reason to fear that things will escalate to rape far, far more often than men ever do, but that's why I think society should be very harsh on men who handle women after being given an unambiguous No. Don't sweat the small stuff and ruthlessly punish the big stuff, is what I'm saying. It's only words.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

NaokoSmith - no way did I ever form the impression in my mind from anything I have read from you, that you were a 'ball-bustin' feminist.'

Never got that impression at all.

Would have supposed you had the capacity to 'handle situations' that was for certain.

'Ball-bustin' feminist.' I don't believe that.

Feminist? Sure. Why not.

'Ball-bustin'...' Never got that impression.

It would be interesting, to have a 'ball-bustin' feminist' appear in a noir movie with JBJ as the hardboiled, hard-nosed, owner of a snub-nosed .38 - god what a fuckin' fight that would be. Holly Holm meets well, JBJ, I guess.

Kick to the head. Kick to the balls. JBJ is sprawled out on the ground, blood oozing from a gash near his nose. Through fogged-up, bourbon-eyed vision, he sees the tall, svelte, taught-muscled figure of an angry blonde, with Borsalino large-brimmed hat pushed back over her tied back hair, strong legs spread apart in her dark skirt standing over him.

He goes for his gun. And she kicks him in the balls again.

Like I said: 'Aaarrggghh. Bbbbllllrrrrbb, burrbbbllle burble burble. I just want to fuck you. Argh, awwwrrr. Ga-a-a-a-wd. Fuckin' bitch. Now you've busted my balls. What's the point of that??'

She falls madly in love.

My mother was a ball bester feminist. She usta stick the muzzle of her .38 against my nose and make things clear and plain. Men who whistled and insulted her got the same treatment. When women do that enough times a guy loses his fear of her.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

My belief is the more women whine about what jerks men are, the more men will treat them badly. It's not that different from pulling hair on the playground, and if you get tears, pulling it again.

No amount of discussion is going to change male behaviour when it comes to ogling and commenting. Men behave better in America than they do in most of the world, but my sense is there's an emerging umwelt full of resentment in the American/European male world because of that. Complaining we do not, in fact, act like women, just pushes buttons. "He looked at me!" isn't ever going to be taken as a serious complaint by a guy who already thinks he's being a gentleman for not fondling your ass. And plenty think that way.

That said, I'm talking about verbal, written, and visual flirting and accosting. As soon as it crosses a line and becomes an unwanted touching, take the jerk down by any means necessary, including legal proceedings. If they can't control their hands they need some jail time. Save the complaints, in other words, for the times when a judge can act on an unambiguous situation. "Look don't touch" is a reasonable social goal to shoot for. "Always treat me with respect in thought, word and deed." is too much to ask; men don't treat each other that way and there's even less genetic incentive to treat women that way.

Trust me, women do shit that infuriates men, too. I realise it's not an equal dynamic because women have reason to fear that things will escalate to rape far, far more often than men ever do, but that's why I think society should be very harsh on men who handle women after being given an unambiguous No. Don't sweat the small stuff and ruthlessly punish the big stuff, is what I'm saying. It's only words.

The facts say this about females: All of them start shit they cant finish. They escalate till they go too far, and when they cross the line males take over.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

My belief is the more women whine about what jerks men are, the more men will treat them badly. It's not that different from pulling hair on the playground, and if you get tears, pulling it again.

No amount of discussion is going to change male behaviour when it comes to ogling and commenting. Men behave better in America than they do in most of the world, but my sense is there's an emerging umwelt full of resentment in the American/European male world because of that. Complaining we do not, in fact, act like women, just pushes buttons. "He looked at me!" isn't ever going to be taken as a serious complaint by a guy who already thinks he's being a gentleman for not fondling your ass. And plenty think that way.

That said, I'm talking about verbal, written, and visual flirting and accosting. As soon as it crosses a line and becomes an unwanted touching, take the jerk down by any means necessary, including legal proceedings. If they can't control their hands they need some jail time. Save the complaints, in other words, for the times when a judge can act on an unambiguous situation. "Look don't touch" is a reasonable social goal to shoot for. "Always treat me with respect in thought, word and deed." is too much to ask; men don't treat each other that way and there's even less genetic incentive to treat women that way.

Trust me, women do shit that infuriates men, too. I realise it's not an equal dynamic because women have reason to fear that things will escalate to rape far, far more often than men ever do, but that's why I think society should be very harsh on men who handle women after being given an unambiguous No. Don't sweat the small stuff and ruthlessly punish the big stuff, is what I'm saying. It's only words.

It's genuinely interesting to me how closely I can agree with much of what you say while still perceiving a deep chasm between our views. I think much of what you're suggesting is reasonable, but then I read something like your first paragraph. I don't agree with your premise that the more women complain about men being jerks, the more likely men are to be jerks.

Proving my point that I often agree with you: I'll allow there is a subset of people who love to jerk chains (or tug pigtails). That subset loves finding a new way to irritate, but that subset hardly describes the greater population, and that's where your contention falls apart for me.

As far as "no amount of conversation is going to change. . ." >shrug< I think it can help. I think calling attention to a problem can make a difference. Silence offers tacit approval. If Naoko's post prompts one or two guys to think twice about their decorum, I would guess that she feels accomplished, though you'd have to ask her to be certain.

For the record, I guess I should point out that I wrote the harassment policy for the company where I work. I've been tasked with investigating claims of harassment. That doesn't make me an expert or an authority on the topic, but perhaps raises the bar a bit? I'm certainly not a lawyer. I've investigated (and dismissed) the precise charge you mention of "I don't like how he looks at me." I've also seen a union UPS driver fired when he pressed one of our salespeople up against a wall and tried to steal a kiss. (I wanted to prosecute, but the woman in question was satisfied that the former UPS driver was reprimanded enough by losing his job.

I've been on the other side, too. While not sexual harassment, I once had a complaint charged against me because I dismissed an African-American employee for repeated tardiness. Her parent was convinced I had terminated her precious daughter because I'm white and she's black. No, it was because her precious daughter was repeated late to work and late returning from her breaks, creating disarray inside the workplace and an unnecessary burden on the rest of the staff when they had to stay late or miss their breaks because of this woman's refusal to show back up to work in a timely manner. I'm sure that half of my staff happened to be of a race other than Caucasian helped dismiss that claim.

As you've pointed out, Hands, some people are simply jerks, but as I've tried to point out, that doesn't give the rest of us permission to be jerks, too.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

The facts say this about females: All of them start shit they cant finish. They escalate till they go too far, and when they cross the line males take over.

A great example of the sort of person who loves jerking chains just for the attention. Also, a good example of being a very minor subset compared to the rest of the people choosing to comment. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

A great example of the sort of person who loves jerking chains just for the attention. Also, a good example of being a very minor subset compared to the rest of the people choosing to comment. Thanks for proving my point.

Always glad to help.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

It's genuinely interesting to me how closely I can agree with much of what you say while still perceiving a deep chasm between our views. I think much of what you're suggesting is reasonable, but then I read something like your first paragraph. I don't agree with your premise that the more women complain about men being jerks, the more likely men are to be jerks.

Proving my point that I often agree with you: I'll allow there is a subset of people who love to jerk chains (or tug pigtails). That subset loves finding a new way to irritate, but that subset hardly describes the greater population, and that's where your contention falls apart for me.

As far as "no amount of conversation is going to change. . ." >shrug< I think it can help. I think calling attention to a problem can make a difference. Silence offers tacit approval. If Naoko's post prompts one or two guys to think twice about their decorum, I would guess that she feels accomplished, though you'd have to ask her to be certain.

For the record, I guess I should point out that I wrote the harassment policy for the company where I work. I've been tasked with investigating claims of harassment. That doesn't make me an expert or an authority on the topic, but perhaps raises the bar a bit? I'm certainly not a lawyer. I've investigated (and dismissed) the precise charge you mention of "I don't like how he looks at me." I've also seen a union UPS driver fired when he pressed one of our salespeople up against a wall and tried to steal a kiss. (I wanted to prosecute, but the woman in question was satisfied that the former UPS driver was reprimanded enough by losing his job.

I've been on the other side, too. While not sexual harassment, I once had a complaint charged against me because I dismissed an African-American employee for repeated tardiness. Her parent was convinced I had terminated her precious daughter because I'm white and she's black. No, it was because her precious daughter was repeated late to work and late returning from her breaks, creating disarray inside the workplace and an unnecessary burden on the rest of the staff when they had to stay late or miss their breaks because of this woman's refusal to show back up to work in a timely manner. I'm sure that half of my staff happened to be of a race other than Caucasian helped dismiss that claim.

As you've pointed out, Hands, some people are simply jerks, but as I've tried to point out, that doesn't give the rest of us permission to be jerks, too.

I once hadda ugly woman accuse me of sexual harassment for loaning her a book to read. Her lack of appeal saved me. All agreed she wasn't the stuff of dreams.

 

[49greg]

This is why I rarely stop by here anymore.

making enough characters for this to post

 

[sr71plt]

Woo-hoo, this has been a busy thread while I was away for a day! Plenty of evidence of all kinds for anyone who might have imagined this is a cosy safe backwater.

I'm still waiting for the evidence that you're talking about the AH (as you claim to be) rather than the Internet as a whole--but not seen much on the AH. Where on the AH are you seeing this? Frankly I find your posts on this thread rambling and hard to figure out/follow.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I'm still waiting for the evidence that you're talking about the AH (as you claim to be) rather than the Internet as a whole--but not seen much on the AH. Where on the AH are you seeing this? Frankly I find your posts on this thread rambling and hard to figure out/follow.

fuckin' hell, mate. take a day off.

 

[karaline]

Hands, I've thought twice before replying at all, and twice more before deciding to reply in another forum post by another man in a thread that's clearly designed to support women. Still, here I am.

I just want to say Bucky that I am following this thread and I'm glad that you're continuing to respond, I think maybe you as a man are in a better position to tackle this stuff, I just don't even know where to begin with a lot of the things that are being said here.

I can appreciate there's fine line between wanting to let someone know you're attracted to them, wanting to flirt but also not wanting to offend, cause upset or be wrongly accused of something is a tricky one, and I can sympathise (not really relate but sympathise). On the other hand I feel that this issue pales into insignificance when compared with the sexism and harassment women face all around the world, and i find it hard not to get irritated when its pulled out of the bag and used as a defence as somehow comparable. So I would rather someone who was more removed than i am was responding, because i'm finding it hard not get personal about this, and getting personal isn't going to further the discussion or help anything.
and of course as a man, presumably there would be more common ground between you.

~

Abusive relationships manifest themselves in a lot of different ways. Sometimes they're hard to identify or define, sometimes they're too insidious and subtle to be clear cut enough to shut down as soon as they begin. They don't always happen between men and women in the way we expect them too, they don't always happen between men and woman. Lots of people take advantage of others, sometimes they're not even aware that they're causing upset or harm when they're doing it.

I don't know what the best way to deal with this stuff is when it comes up, but I think it helps to talk about it, to get it out and put it on the table and unpack it, to clarify, as Naoko originally stated, the AH and more generally the internet is not a safe space, but also to let people know that despite this there is some awareness.

 

[sr71plt]

Glynndah, I am very sorry that you came in for such remarks after posting in this thread. Especially as I have missed you posting in here very much. I am gutted that you should have braved coming back to post in here, which I know you will have done to offer support to women experiencing the double standards of 'you are only allowed to be sexy when it suits me, not when it suits you', and perhaps been driven back out again now.

I have been offered the opportunity to take this thread down. Although it's full of abuse from the usual suspects, there is some discussion in here about the way women experience harrassment which I am inclined to think is of value so I am not minded to ask for it to be taken down yet. Please let me know if you would like it taken down since you have so unfairly come in for personal attack in it.

Please tell me what is wrong with the remarks I made on Glynndah's posts. I think they are all true, especially when I haven't seen either you or her back up your claims concerning the AH. I think it's true that the AH is heaven in the regard of women being sexually hit on compared to the GB and many other parts of Lit., and it's true that Glynndah is participating on the GB. So, why would she desert AH, given her undefined posts to this thread, and not the GB? I haven't seen an answer to that question.

And I haven't seen you back up your characterization of the AH as an unsafe place, in terms of male sexual harassment of women, either.

As an aside, although they've been very nice, I don't remember Glynndah posting anything substantive to the AH at all. Just welcomes, which are nice, but . . . Maybe she's posting to the personal blog you run here? I haven't looked at that in a long time.

 

[sr71plt]

fuckin' hell, mate. take a day off.

Will the charge be substantiated if I take a day off? What are you afraid of in me asking that the charges actually be substantiated? Yours is fairly typical reaction when this topic comes up because it's far more comforting to feel hurt and put upon than to show that you should be.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

Will the charge be substantiated if I take a day off? What are you afraid of in me asking that the charges actually be substantiated? Yours is fairly typical reaction when this topic comes up because it's far more comforting to feel hurt and put upon than to show that you should be.

i'm not afraid of you, you're just endless. shut up for a few days. it's like a great dane with diarrhea. your shit is everywhere.

 

[sr71plt]

i'm not afraid of you, you're just endless. shut up for a few days. it's like a great dane with diarrhea. your shit is everywhere.

As is yours, but you're the one complaining about it. I haven't seen you add any substance to this thread--just, as you say, shit.

Why not step out of the gutter and respond to the issue on a claim that the AH is unsafe because of the sexual harassment on women going on on the AH? You seem to think there is or you wouldn't have jumped in at all.

But your's is the standard response to someone asking questions not wanting to be answered--tell them to leave the discussion, right?

 

[geronimo_appleby]

As is yours, but you're the one complaining about it. I haven't seen you add any substance to this thread--just, as you say, shit.

Why not step out of the gutter and respond to the issue on a claim that the AH is unsafe because of the sexual harassment on women going on on the AH? You seem to think there is or you wouldn't have jumped in at all.

how the fuck would i know if the AH is unsafe for women? all i want is for you to shut up. you're just a belligerent gobshite who pushes his fat face into everything. take a few days off, find some perspective.

 

[sr71plt]

how the fuck would i know if the AH is unsafe for women? all i want is for you to shut up. you're just a belligerent gobshite who pushes his fat face into everything. take a few days off, find some perspective.

So, yes, if you don't want to actually show what someone is asking you to show, the response is to tell them them leave the discussion. OK, got that. And it's the typical response on this particular issue. I get that part about not wanting to hear from anyone who doesn't agree with a point that you won't substantiate when asked to do so.

It's really an appropriate response in the female-male "discussion." Don't want to discuss it really and get down to the balanced view of it--just want to lecture.