banning single-use plastics

[HisArpy]

Can we also make printer toner less expensve than printers?

I throw out printers when they run out of toner and buy a new one.

Way cheaper, but such waste!

I don't want to discuss the cost of toner. My monthly office expense for JUST toner is $300. It's a ripoff.

The cost of paper sucks too.

 

[oralaccents]

Obligatory Luk joke:__________

 

[HisArpy]

Obligatory Luk joke:__________

Luk's "joke" is a lot shorter than that. Or so someone told me in confidence.

 

[Luk]

Luk

 

[oralaccents]

Good boi!

 

[BotanyBoy]

So your personal preferences are all that are necessary for everyone to be required to do likewise?

As with all the authoritarian leftist, their opinion is all the justification needed to use the force of government authority to impose said opinion upon everyone else.

The end justifies any means necessary of course.

For the greater good comrade!!!

 

[HisArpy]

As with all the authoritarian leftist, their opinion is all the justification needed to use the force of government authority to impose said opinion upon everyone else.

The end justifies any means necessary of course.

For the greater good comrade!!!

I actually think this is a result of failing schools which no longer teach people how to debate or use rhetoric.

Instead people these days put band aids on social problems and think they've done something good. It's totally reactive and they're good with it because they don't know how to be proactive.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I actually think this is a result of failing schools which no longer teach people how to debate or use rhetoric.

Instead people these days put band aids on social problems and think they've done something good. It's totally reactive and they're good with it because they don't know how to be proactive.

Not even band aids they just virtue signal and call it saving the world.

"Sanctuary city!!" until they start getting dropped off by the plane load...then it's all NIMBY!!!

"We need public housing!!!" until it's in their neighborhood.....then it's all NIMBY!!!

 

[butters]

single-use plastics... staws, picnic cutlery, plastic cups, plastic(foam) plates, excess plastic used in containers for food, those thin, stupid plastic grocery bags that usually need doubling up anyway... there are a lot of easy cut-backs

• you do not NEED drinking staws and there are other materials available as already pointed out by others if you insist
• picnic cutlery? use regular metal, or ceramic if you prefer
• single-use plastic cups - use glass, china, metal, even (yuk) heavy plastic reusables and wash them!
• same for the plates
• cut packaging back to the necessary, not half a dozen extra layers of plastic wrappings
• hemp/jute bags, regular shopping bags work like they always did, plus heavy duty sturdy and foldable 'carry crates' to take a load in a car boot
• return to glass bottles, make recycling the norm, use more cans and, again, recycling plants need to function better to cope and process waste on a country's own soil - not ship waste off to other, less wealthy countries

easy, simple changes - especially making sure to take your own shopping bags with you. they always give us way too many at the checkouts, only loading a few items into each, so wasteful. people get used to things - and right now they're used to getting a ton of 'free' carrier bags to carry out their groceries. they've cut back their use a LOT in the u.k, and of course people grumbled and fretted but it took only about half a year to hear the complaints mostly disappear in the places i ran. they got used to bringing their own bags and it became normalised, again.

the first to do so regularly were the scandinavians, who were almost offended if you offered them a plastic bag... they've been doing this stuff way longer and recycling far more effectively.

 

[oralaccents]

I think of butters as a single use plastic.

 

[BotanyBoy]

single-use plastics... staws, picnic cutlery, plastic cups, plastic(foam) plates, excess plastic used in containers for food, those thin, stupid plastic grocery bags that usually need doubling up anyway... there are a lot of easy cut-backs

• you do not NEED drinking staws and there are other materials available as already pointed out by others if you insist
• picnic cutlery? use regular metal, or ceramic if you prefer
• single-use plastic cups - use glass, china, metal, even (yuk) heavy plastic reusables and wash them!
• same for the plates
• cut packaging back to the necessary, not half a dozen extra layers of plastic wrappings
• hemp/jute bags, regular shopping bags work like they always did, plus heavy duty sturdy and foldable 'carry crates' to take a load in a car boot
• return to glass bottles, make recycling the norm, use more cans and, again, recycling plants need to function better to cope and process waste on a country's own soil - not ship waste off to other, less wealthy countries

easy, simple changes - especially making sure to take your own shopping bags with you. they always give us way too many at the checkouts, only loading a few items into each, so wasteful. people get used to things - and right now they're used to getting a ton of 'free' carrier bags to carry out their groceries. they've cut back their use a LOT in the u.k, and of course people grumbled and fretted but it took only about half a year to hear the complaints mostly disappear in the places i ran. they got used to bringing their own bags and it became normalised, again.

the first to do so regularly were the scandinavians, who were almost offended if you offered them a plastic bag... they've been doing this stuff way longer and recycling far more effectively.

How about no comrade Stallina....I like my plastic bags because I put cat shit and other rancid whatevers in them.

 

[silver gurl]

I am with BotBoy, I actually reuse plastic bags. But they do charge us 5cents per bag. Some towns, they are now banned.
Make sure to clean out your reusable bag. Some nasty stuff grows in there.
How will they wrap meat?

 

[adrina]

Problem is that all these petroleum based products don't go away any time soon. The convenience of not touching some muck - is it worth the dead birds and dead whales? The gyres of plastic in the ocean are not shrinking. Just the opposite.

If we are going to have all of this plastic and insist up on using it, it should be made of biodegradable materials.

Is our short term convenience worth the long term cost?

Think in terms of millennia - that's how long so many of the plastics we use take to break down. The plastic water bottle - a mere 450 years. How old will you live to be?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Problem is that all these petroleum based products don't go away any time soon. The convenience of not touching some muck - is it worth the dead birds and dead whales? The gyres of plastic in the ocean are not shrinking. Just the opposite.

If we are going to have all of this plastic and insist up on using it, it should be made of biodegradable materials.

Is our short term convenience worth the long term cost?

Think in terms of millennia - that's how long so many of the plastics we use take to break down. The plastic water bottle - a mere 450 years. How old will you live to be?

Just gotta pick the shit up and do a better job of recycling.

Biodegradable is cool, plant plastic is great.

But people need bags to keep the yuck together and not all over their shit.

 

[bellisarius]

Just gotta pick the shit up and do a better job of recycling.

Biodegradable is cool, plant plastic is great.

But people need bags to keep the yuck together and not all over their shit.

Overall I'm in agreement with the ban. Needs to be fine tuned but as pointed out the shit just doesn't go away.

The recycling market has collapsed, the supply has far outstripped the demand. We are generating more of that shit than the market can bear. We lived with paying a deposit and getting a refund for a long, long time. I'm pretty certain we can do it again and survive.

 

[cowslinger64]

Overall I'm in agreement with the ban. Needs to be fine tuned but as pointed out the shit just doesn't go away.

The recycling market has collapsed, the supply has far outstripped the demand. We are generating more of that shit than the market can bear. We lived with paying a deposit and getting a refund for a long, long time. I'm pretty certain we can do it again and survive.

Still got the dime deposit on bottles here... and while it's a pain sometimes, it does help with the environment. Many times while traveling it's awful to see them strewn along the highway.


I can't disagree with some common sense things done about our environment..

 

[DMBFFF]

I'll read the rest of this thread later.

How about no comrade Stallina....I like my plastic bags because I put cat shit and other rancid whatevers in them.

https://www.toronto.ca/311/knowledg...een-bin-items-prohibited-green-bin-items.html
Accepted Green Bin items - prohibited green bin items

What goes in the Green Bin?
...
Animal waste, bedding (e.g. from bird/hamster cages), kitty litter (organic or clay only)

I think we were instructed to use plastic bags specifically for such.

https://www.torontoenvironment.org/what_do_i_use_in_my_green_bin
What do I use in my green bin?

(my bold)

*NOTE: In Toronto, all plastic bags used in green bins are removed before the composting process. You can buy compostable bio-plastic bags designed for green bins, and for pet waste, but they will be removed along with all other plastic bags during processing of organics, and sent to landfill as residual waste. In the landfill they’re not likely to ‘compost’ due to the absence of light and air, so there’s no major environmental benefit for using compostable bags.

https://www.torontoenvironment.org/what_do_i_do_with_dog_poop
What do I do with dog poop?

Pet waste can still be collected in plastic bags - bread bags, produce bags etc are a good size. Residents can buy bags especially for pet waste. Pet waste (in any type of plastic bag) is accepted in Toronto’s green bin.

*Note, you can buy compostable bio-plastic bags designed for pet waste, but they will be removed along with all other plastic bags during the processing of organics, and sent to landfill as residual waste. In the landfill they’re not likely to ‘compost’ due to the absence of light and air, so there’s no major environmental benefit for using compostable bags.

https://www.lastormwater.org/blog/2014/02/ask-la-stormwater-can-dog-waste-go-in-the-green-bin/
Ask LA Stormwater: Can dog waste go in the green bin?

Now back to your question. You cannot dispose of pet waste—even pet waste in a biodegradable bag—in the green waste bin. All of those bacteria we mentioned could contaminate the contents of the container and potentially the whole truck load of green waste. If dog waste is found in the mix, the green waste can’t be composted and must go into the landfill. That would be a shame.

(Though to be fair, dog excreta outdoors in Toronto can be frozen for several months. )



However even in regular landfill, kitty litter might weigh down the bags so it's unlikely to surface perhaps for decades. I figure a lot of the problems—at least disproportionately—with plastics in the environment are due to litterers.

I am with BotBoy, I actually reuse plastic bags. But they do charge us 5cents per bag. Some towns, they are now banned.
Make sure to clean out your reusable bag. Some nasty stuff grows in there.
How will they wrap meat?

Rob Ford fought the valiant fight against the mandatory 10¢/bag fee in Toronto. I think I read or heard somewhere that when it was in effect, the consumption of shopping bags fell by two-thirds. No Frills, Food Basics, and a few others, charged (and still charge) 5¢/bag for about 20 years before that. The LCBO switched to paper—not handy for, say, a few liter-sized bottles of liquor (one paid several $10s for), and only the Beer Store takes in the empties. Of course if one tossed them on the boulevard or like, some collector(s) will snag them before too long.



As I have over 100 bags in storage and I definitely re-use my bags, I'm ready for any bans.




Another issue: black plastic. Toronto, Hamilton, and most Golden Horseshoe cities I presume, don't recycle them—something about scanning in the recycling plant, though I understand it can be in Niagara Falls (where I think the GB nazi lives).




Btw, I gotta check what all the breaking down of plastic leads to. I mean, once you get to atoms, it presumably isn't plastic anymore.

 

[trysail]

According to NPR:


by Greg Rosalsky

[Plastic] Trash Bag Sales Jumped After Grocery Bag Bans

Graph:
https://apps.npr.org/dailygraphics/graphics/pm-plastic-bags-20190405/

"(NPR)...Before California banned plastic shopping bags statewide in late 2016, a wave of 139 California cities and counties implemented the policy themselves. Taylor and colleagues compared bag use in cities with bans with those without them. For six months, they spent weekends in grocery stores tallying the types of bags people carried out (she admits these weren't her wildest weekends). She also analyzed these stores' sales data.

Taylor found these bag bans did what they were supposed to: People in the cities with the bans used fewer plastic bags, which led to about 40 million fewer pounds of plastic trash per year. But people who used to reuse their shopping bags for other purposes, like picking up dog poop or lining trash bins, still needed bags. "What I found was that sales of garbage bags actually skyrocketed after plastic grocery bags were banned," she says. This was particularly the case for small, 4-gallon bags, which saw a 120 percent increase in sales after bans went into effect..."



https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

​

​

 

[Luk]

According to NPR:
​

No. It's according to some guy writing a newsletter without any facts.​

 

[Lancedalot]

Aww you got all sensitive and jumped at me but can't take it when it's handed back to you.

You propose the least amount of action for something that needs a solution on a far grander scale. It is quite literally like pissing on a forest fire and expecting it to put out the fire. Consumer based solutions are pointless and ineffective with our current production level. And the market for recyclables is shrinking. Not growing.

The only thing you've suggested of any merit is working on the production side. However any effort to reign in industrial production of plastics has been fought tooth and nail - especially by the conservatives.

You've had your ass handed to you - again - so you do your usual. Wrap yourself up in your victimhood while trying to play catch up on the sarcasm game.

This is why I don't bother with you.

After replying to him with multiple posts containing scores of paragraphs, you then proclaim, "This is why I don't bother with you."

What a dumbass.

 

[DMBFFF]

...

1. Have sales plateaued or gone down?
2. x is banned, so sale of y "skyrockets":

My suspicion:

(the mass of extra plastic for the extra sales of garbage bags)
minus
(the mass of plastic no longer used for shopping bags)
<< 0



Perhaps a better study would be if there is any smuggling of shopping bags into California.

 

[silver gurl]

I'll read the rest of this thread later.








https://www.toronto.ca/311/knowledg...een-bin-items-prohibited-green-bin-items.html
Accepted Green Bin items - prohibited green bin items


I think we were instructed to use plastic bags specifically for such.

https://www.torontoenvironment.org/what_do_i_use_in_my_green_bin
What do I use in my green bin?

(my bold)


https://www.torontoenvironment.org/what_do_i_do_with_dog_poop
What do I do with dog poop?





https://www.lastormwater.org/blog/2014/02/ask-la-stormwater-can-dog-waste-go-in-the-green-bin/
Ask LA Stormwater: Can dog waste go in the green bin?


(Though to be fair, dog excreta outdoors in Toronto can be frozen for several months. )



However even in regular landfill, kitty litter might weigh down the bags so it's unlikely to surface perhaps for decades. I figure a lot of the problems—at least disproportionately—with plastics in the environment are due to litterers.




Rob Ford fought the valiant fight against the mandatory 10¢/bag fee in Toronto. I think I read or heard somewhere that when it was in effect, the consumption of shopping bags fell by two-thirds. No Frills, Food Basics, and a few others, charged (and still charge) 5¢/bag for about 20 years before that. The LCBO switched to paper—not handy for, say, a few liter-sized bottles of liquor (one paid several $10s for), and only the Beer Store takes in the empties. Of course if one tossed them on the boulevard or like, some collector(s) will snag them before too long.



As I have over 100 bags in storage and I definitely re-use my bags, I'm ready for any bans.




Another issue: black plastic. Toronto, Hamilton, and most Golden Horseshoe cities I presume, don't recycle them—something about scanning in the recycling plant, though I understand it can be in Niagara Falls (where I think the GB nazi lives).




Btw, I gotta check what all the breaking down of plastic leads to. I mean, once you get to atoms, it presumably isn't plastic anymore.

I believe No Frills, is our Maxi. It is BYOB...bring your own bag.
The SAQ does not have bags. You either buy enough booze to deserve a box or purchase a wine bag.
The Dep still gives bags and we can return our bottles there.

 

[von_Bismarck]

According to NPR:


by Greg Rosalsky

[Plastic] Trash Bag Sales Jumped After Grocery Bag Bans

Graph:
https://apps.npr.org/dailygraphics/graphics/pm-plastic-bags-20190405/

"(NPR)...Before California banned plastic shopping bags statewide in late 2016, a wave of 139 California cities and counties implemented the policy themselves. Taylor and colleagues compared bag use in cities with bans with those without them. For six months, they spent weekends in grocery stores tallying the types of bags people carried out (she admits these weren't her wildest weekends). She also analyzed these stores' sales data.

Taylor found these bag bans did what they were supposed to: People in the cities with the bans used fewer plastic bags, which led to about 40 million fewer pounds of plastic trash per year. But people who used to reuse their shopping bags for other purposes, like picking up dog poop or lining trash bins, still needed bags. "What I found was that sales of garbage bags actually skyrocketed after plastic grocery bags were banned," she says. This was particularly the case for small, 4-gallon bags, which saw a 120 percent increase in sales after bans went into effect..."



https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

​

​

Did you forget you copied and pasted this just earlier today? Are you off your meds, or something?

 

[OldJourno]

good. we don't need them and plastic has got into everything, the water, the food-chain, people... i really don't like eating and drinking out of plastic and styrofoam; give me glass and china any day. plastic tastes like chemicals.

If we don't need single-use plastics why are they so omnipresent?
Following your logic, we can soon look forward to cutting our feet in the shower after the glass container holding the shampoo shatters. Can't have that bad, bad single-use plastic.
Or the heavier glass, billed as shatter proof, will just cost a buck or two more. That's a true benefit to the poor the liberals don't give a shit about anyway.
This is another example of an idea that sounds good to some people, but that sounds good part crumbles on closer inspection.

 

[SpeareChucker]

The cow goes




MOOO000ooo...