Being autistic and random stuff

[ravus96]

My wife is fine about being on the spectrum, the question is where. She had a long concluded diagnosis as a child which even with my limited knowledge of mental health was a load of garbage. My wife attributes the diagnosis to her being non-verbal until the age of 6 at which point she decided to talk.

Our eldest son was diagnosed with dyspraxia at a similar age. Which again like my daughters autism my wife has and had most of the traits used to make his diagnoses... my wife’s just complicated there’s a lot more too her than a photographic memory and her ability to score an I.Q of 189 on a full Mensa test after 8 pints of cider and black.
Do no what you mean about your ex-girlfriend though, offended does not do just for the full implosion of my mother in law when my wife suggested she to might just possibly be on the spectrum as well.

 

[stickygirl]

I heard a lovely story about a young non-verbal autistic girl who'd throw a tantrum when her mother picked out something for her to wear that she didn't like. 'If you'd just tell me what you want to wear', her mother told her. Within two weeks she was speaking fluently: she just needed an incentive to talk!

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I heard a lovely story about a young non-verbal autistic girl who'd throw a tantrum when her mother picked out something for her to wear that she didn't like. 'If you'd just tell me what you want to wear', her mother told her. Within two weeks she was speaking fluently: she just needed an incentive to talk!

When my kids were toddlers I’d always give them a choice of what to wear: “Do you want the dinosaur shirt today, or the ducky one?”

Just letting them pick between two alternatives made getting them dressed so much easier!

 

[ravus96]

It was the right person with my wife, the girl who showed her round her new school. She was talking fluently by the end of the day apparently. I can vouch For them still best friends today.

 

[stickygirl]

I read about 'sticky thinking' in an article today. Good to know there are other sticky thinkers

 

[stickygirl]

Interesting article. Having heard ‘you worry too much’ so often when I go through ‘if, then, else’ scenarios is not over-thinking but trying to feel more prepared (& consequently, less anxious) about the uncertainty in a situation.

Oh good, you picked up intolerance of uncertainty. I'm trying to understand that in myself and currently I'm thinking it's situations where I know I'll have problems/uncertainties to solve but I can't start on them yet. Get so stressed, though I enjoy actually working through the problems. Weird huh?

 

[stickygirl]

For me, it’s preempting what could happen, thinking things through so that - while something unexpected might happen - I am as prepared as I can be. I have been laughed at: ‘I don’t know what you were worrying about?’ completely missing that it was not worry so much as just feeling thoroughly prepared and, therefore, calm in my own mind.
Something that drives me up the wall when asking something quite important: ‘It should be OK?’

You must know my friend Justin Should! You just have to do that and it should be okay.

Yes, the need to be prepared is so demanding given that we hate the unexpected, unplanned, unknown. It makes me so anxious, even if it's a nice thing that I've done before. I can't put my analogy finger on it but maybe it's like Russian dolls: plan for that, but there's another one inside, plan for that...

 

[stickygirl]

Be kind to yourself. I used to force myself to go to social gatherings but now I don't. Last night I left after an hour; didn't say goodbye ( because then they insist you must meet this person and NO you can't go yet it's just started ). I took a huge gulp of air outside, drank it into my lungs in relief.

Crap things about social gatherings
- I can't hear what people say against background noise
- you can't have an in depth convo when you're shouting to make yourself heard
- if there's food, how long has it been sitting before it appeared?
- People insist on hugging 'hello'
- I can't sip at drinks and am known for having got shit faced because I was bored
- I only used to go because I felt guilty if I didn't and people would judge me
- I can't dance. Like the song "No one asks me for dances because I only know how to flail."

Why do you hate parties and more importantly, what excuses do you use to avoid them? We could swap ideas here.

 

[stickygirl]

I hope Bramblethorn won't mind me lifting an excellent post from another thread. It responds beautifully to the head-pat of being told "just be you".

ADHD often comes with time-blindness. But also, people with ADHD often find it difficult to start things, even when they know what the time is and know the thing needs to be done. Executive function disorders are a bitch that way.



"Just being you", you say...

As an undiagnosed-autistic kid, like most autistic kids, I went through several decades of immersion training on not being me. Before I was a teenager, I learned that my natural body language was making people uncomfortable and I needed to change it. I loved to swing my arms excessively while I was walking; I stopped doing that. I found it easier to concentrate on what people were saying if I wasn't looking at them; they found that disrespectful and dishonest; I put a lot of effort into making eye contact even if it meant I could no longer absorb what they were saying. When I talked too much about the topics that fascinated me, I was being weird and obsessive; I learned to suppress that enthusiasm and monitor my own excitement. When I wanted to spend my lunch reading quietly, that was wrong; I was supposed to be out socialising with kids who had no interest in what interested me.

(I wrote "excessively" there. It wasn't excessive for me! It was natural and happy and it wasn't hurting anybody. But when you're trained incessantly that such things are bad and your duty is to fit in, inevitably you end up internalising a lot of that.)

LC mentioned in another thread that when you grow up in an abusive household, you learn to walk silently so as not to attract attention. Autistic kids tend to pick up something similar, but on a social level.

By the time we realise that perhaps we're not the standard model human, and that this is okay, and that we should just be ourselves... "just be you" is a distant vaguely-remembered land, maybe thirty, forty, fifty years in the past.

Trying to undo several decades of conditioning and figure out who we might have been without it... that's a long hard journey. It's a lot of work and it comes with a lot of grief over thinking about things that could've been. I've known I was autistic for something like fifteen years now, and I still find myself having to think back to decades-old interactions and reevaluate them in that lens of "what if not everything was your fault for being Weird?"

And even then, "just being you" will get you in trouble a lot of the time. When I'm talking to a stranger, I still have to worry about whether they're going to judge me by the things I say or by whether I'm making the right amount of eye contact. If I actually say I'm autistic, so many people will instantly make assumptions about what I can and can't do, based on some stereotype or on the one autistic person they know or on a movie where a non-autistic actor played a non-autistic writer's idea of an autistic person. (Or worse; some people believe truly awful things about autism.)

I do some workplace mentoring, both of autistic employees and of people who manage them. One of the things that comes up a lot is that somebody will tell their boss "I'm autistic", and the boss will say "okay, just let me know what you need", and the autistic person won't be able to answer that question because it's the first time any manager has asked them sincerely and meant it. Even when they do know what they need, they're often reluctant to ask for even the tiniest things because they've learned that asking for their own needs to be met is bad.

Having that label gives some reassurance that maybe there is something to be gained by putting in all that work, and that we won't be alone on that journey.

 

[burgwad]

What a cool thread. I'm still kind of wrapping my head around all of this. Only in the last few days have I suddenly (at age 36) realized how much sense an ASD diagnosis makes for my life story.

Ironically, my partner and I have recently been trying (on and off for a couple years, actually) to convince her sister, who lives downstairs from us and struggles mightily with life, that she might benefit from an ASD diagnosis. I won't go into the particulars of her presentation. Suffice to say, it's conspicuous to those of us who know and love her. Our intentions have been good, I know this in my heart, but she has maintained that she just isn't sure, she feels a little insulted, and that the very notion of an ASD diagnosis makes her uncomfortable.

Now all of a sudden I get where my partner's sister is coming from. It's definitely not a matter of slapping my hand on my forehead and going "Duh, I have autism!" It's such an abstract diagnosis. People who claim to understand it best seem always to say, "You don't understand ASD, you can't understand ASD, it is an unknowable mystery to all but those who are ASD, etc." Sure, there's an epiphanic quality to realizing you align with the diagnostic criteria, but there is not (or has not for me been) that same sudden, snapping sensation of realization. Instead, there is a lot of internal hemming and hawing. There's anxiety about making that leap, coming out to loved ones, imagining a future where I inform colleagues and employers that I am ASD, figuring out how to navigate the various kinds of reactions that is sure to elicit... Yikes.

I could ramble endlessly on this. I'm probably ASD, after all, and psychology is one of my special obsessions (hence my instant, unabashed brain-crush on newcomer and fellow mental health clinician @LittleLilyCanWrite). But I don't know quite where I'm actually headed with this, autobiographically speaking. Is it okay to believe I'm ASD, believe in my heart that I am, but still skip the (reportedly very expensive) screening and only ever tell a handful of highly trusted people?

Let me frame this another way: What if you were ASD and you were seeing a counselor who, unbeknownst to you, was ASD? Would you rather they disclose that, and own it? Or would you understand their own personal need for discretion?

ASD is just suuuch a misunderstood diagnosis. Yes, I am mostly confident it suits me. And I personally find the ASD community a beautiful, warm, welcoming one. But I am not emotionally or socially prepared to wear the yoke of that f***ing label.

Apologies for the formless ventilation of thoughts and feelings. There is a very good chance I will have offended somebody already, and I'm sorry for that. I'm all over the place. I just keep having all these realizations.

And oh my god, my writing. My latest piece, "Momscrolling," was disastrously received. It is currently clawing its way back from a <2 out of 5 rating. I could have sworn it was beautifully written. I wouldn't have published it otherwise. But it is, in hindsight, probably one of the most ASD things I have ever written or read (and I read "The Secret In The Basement" by Nick Smith!). No wonder people hated it! But I can look at it with new eyes, and rather than feeling embarrassed all over again, I actually feel good. Heartened. I think it's a really strong, beautiful piece. I don't mean to turn this post into a plug for my work, but I welcome anyone ASD-curious to give Momscrolling a look--especially if you've already seen it--and tell me if you can feel the ASD vibes radiating off of this piece (and the Daughter character in particular).

Okay. Abruptly ending this post. Thank you for letting me into your little club.

 

[stickygirl]

You're most welcome. A couple of thoughts from what you've writen.

You still have reservations about accepting the diagnosis, but why not treat is as a hypothesis? For the sake of discussion, lets say you are autistic - how would that help you? I can only tell you how it helped me, but I don't think it's a unique experience.
Firstly I obsessively read books and watched videos about the topic. I needed the facts to make an informed judgement. Along the way, I had so many light-bulb moments, so many memories I revisited and examined in a new light...'Oh maybe that's why the teacher made that comment that has plagued me with guilt for twenty years? Now I get it!'
From blogs I found on Reddit's community, people typically take about 18mths to work through that process of light-bulb moments. It can be disconcerting but it does pass.
It's process I found helpful, not the label. Along the way, I began to be more forgiving on my short-comings. I give myself permission to leave the party early if I'm stressed by it, or go to a different supermarket because I hate the lighting in my local one. Instead of forcing myself into square pegs, I found round ones instead.

You're s-i-law's situation is common too. Autism is still stigmatised, though I believe people's understanding of it is improving. An old gf of mine was clearly on the spectrum and a previous partner had suggested it to her. She took great offence to it, but I think she's slowly come round to accepting it. When I told her about my diagnosis, I think it helped too.

You made me laugh with your comment about a therapist being autistic, because mine admitted she was after giving me her concluding observations. I immediately thought she'd projected her autism onto me, something I later told her. Despite my reaction, I trusted her enough to investigate this whole autism thing by myself. Then the clouds parted and out came the sun

Good luck and thank you for posting. Feel free to come back - you might be helping the next person.

 

[LittleLilyCanWrite]

I'm probably ASD, after all, and psychology is one of my special obsessions (hence my instant, unabashed brain-crush on newcomer and fellow mental health clinician @LittleLilyCanWrite)

And yet you haven’t slid into my DMs? Gosh. How gentlemanly of you.

I thought Mom-scrolling was going to be funny. The title sort of made me think so, and the only other thing of yours I've read (your Complete List of Rules) was a humorous work. But it was not remotely funny. It was horrifying.

• Commenters may have complained about the format, but I didn't mind it that much. I read it on my phone, which gave my scroll finger a workout but otherwise was probably preferable to seeing it all stretched out across my monitor. The way you decided to tell the story reminded me of a French film whose title escapes me at the moment. I liked it. I have a high tolerance for not knowing what the fuck is going on. Maybe that's another psych nerd thing you and I share? Kind of interesting hypothesis. Worth exploring.
• As for whether it was erotic or not? Well. I hated the incest. I found the sex scenes to be horrific. I felt so bad for the characters, regardless of how happy they were. And yet.
• I also found it impossible to look away. As soon as the sexual tension broke, the writing suddenly turned florid, cathartic, and even poetic, and it kind of carried me away. I melted at "she sees her as brightly as the night is dark," it was just such a sweet sentiment, even if it was nested in a nightmare scenario. But that's just one of several lines that stood out to me. You're a wizard, Harry!
• As a work of pure erotica, it's probably awful? I don't know. I have never written erotica. I do not pretend to understand how to write it. So I am probably a poor judge of "good" erotica.
• Taken as a work of horror, though, it was amazing, and I will die on that hill. This story is pure torture. Like for instance, am I correct in assuming that Dad and Daughter secretly resume their affair upon his return home? You drop hints here and there. It makes sense, too, given their past secrecy, and given Mom's tendency to willfully ignore it. I love that you never confirm or deny this for the reader. This makes the scene in the kitchen where they double-gaslight Mom so sickening.
• Your writing gets so intense when it wants to. Maybe you're still learning how to write whatever "erotica" is, and I'll be interested to hear what others think if they have the stomach to get through it, but I think you have an undeniable talent. It would be a shame if you took the low ratings to heart and stopped writing such weird shit, burgwad. Stay intense. You have at least one reader who appreciates it.
• As for the ASD that you say "radiates" from this work? Even after all this, I still can't say. It's easy to imagine that only someone neurodivergent would format a story this long in such a strange way, but it hardly seems fair to jump straight to the conclusion that the author must be autistic, especially given the level of execution. But I don't know. I see the obsessiveness. I see the "bloat" you described. But I don't see incontrovertible evidence for autism.
• I do agree that the Daughter reads believably as ASD. Unfortunately. This only makes her parents' total disregard for her psychosexual boundaries that much more disturbing. But then you've also admitted you didn't write her ASD on purpose, so I'm not convinced she needs the diagnosis to make sense as a character.
• Um. Should I have posted this in my Psych thread? Or is it confusing that I'm leaving it here, in an Autism thread? I'm new enough to this forum that I don't really know the proper etiquette. Fwiw, I too am ASD.

Question for everybody here: Do any of you have works on Literotica that you think "radiate" ASD like burgwad believes Mom-scrolling does? I might be interested in taking a look, if that's okay! ASD is a diagnosis I never tire of learning about, and that in fact I feel obliged to study continuously for fear I'll never fully grasp what it means.

 

[LittleLilyCanWrite]

You made me laugh with your comment about a therapist being autistic, because mine admitted she was after giving me her concluding observations. I immediately thought she'd projected her autism onto me, something I later told her. Despite my reaction, I trusted her enough to investigate this whole autism thing by myself. Then the clouds parted and out came the sun

Fwiw, I disclose to my clients that I am ASD during the informed consent conversation (ie, our first billed session). By this point, I have already performed intake, and so given them a sense of our potential chemistry; but it's also still early enough in our relationship that I don't have to worry about blindsiding them. That said, the choice to not disclose is a valid one, too.

Sticky, it sounds like your therapist went with the "blindside" option. Bold move. Glad to hear it didn't completely thwart your trust in her.

 

[Bramblethorn]

When learning about the diagnosis, we sat down and researched together. It was at a time in my life, where I was largely ignorant to autism. I never considered it, ever. I was typically misinformed about it. Thoughts of rainman and the kid in my grade that didn't talk and covered his ears when he heard a loud noise. I had no idea of the nuances and misunderstanding of daily life with autism. The more I learned, the more it blew me away. I had no idea.

Something that makes me cranky:

Raymond, the autistic character in Rain Man, is played by Dustin Hoffman. A fine actor, not to my knowledge autistic.

The film was directed by Barry Levinson, written by Barry Morrow and Ronald Bass. As far as I know, none of them autistic. (Morrow is a member of the Autism Society of America; I'm not familiar with it but from its wiki entry, looks to be a similar org to Autism Speaks, dominated by non-autistic parents/etc. and previously associated with "conversion therapy" and vaccine myths.)

Raymond was based on two real people: Bill Sackter (intellectually disabled, AFAICT not autistic) and Kim Peek (savant). At the time Rain Man was made, Peek had been diagnosed as autistic, but later research indicated he probably had a different condition called FG condition instead.

So when I was growing up, most people's ideas of autism (including mine) were formed largely by a movie with no actual autistic influences to speak of. No wonder so many of us took so long to realise we might be autistic.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Question for everybody here: Do any of you have works on Literotica that you think "radiate" ASD like burgwad believes Mom-scrolling does? I might be interested in taking a look, if that's okay! ASD is a diagnosis I never tire of learning about, and that in fact I feel obliged to study continuously for fear I'll never fully grasp what it means.

Lily and others over on the Authors' Hangout are already no doubt tired of aware of my story Anjali's Red Scarf, but I'll mention it here as a story that was definitely intended to radiate autism. (Early chapters refer to "Aspergers" because I started it quite a while back, before my terminology preferences changed.)

FWIW, I generally don't self-describe as "ASD" except in very specific situations where a formal medical label is required, because I have complicated feelings about the "D".

 

[LittleLilyCanWrite]

I have complicated feelings about the "D".

Meow.

But all winking aside, I do actually agree. Fuck the "D" in ASD. I do not consider my autism the least bit disorderly. If anything, my diagnosis only helped make things that much less disorderly for me.

Anjali's Red Scarf is so fucking lovely. Your depiction of autism is refreshing. I would almost call it 'subtle' but that isn't quite what I mean. It's just normal. Meaningful to the telling, but just as meaningfully unremarkable. That story has my highest recommendation. (I confess I need to get back to finishing it. Sorry Bramble!)

 

[stickygirl]

Sticky, it sounds like your therapist went with the "blindside" option. Bold move. Glad to hear it didn't completely thwart your trust in her.

To put her decision in context, I didn't go to her to find out if I was autistic, so by declaring it at the outset, she might have affected the consultations. It wouldn't have mattered to me that she was autistic when I was there for more general anxiety.
Perhaps your consultations are specifically for autism or for people previously diagnosed?

 

[LittleLilyCanWrite]

Perhaps your consultations are specifically for autism or for people previously diagnosed?

They aren't, actually. The clinic I work out of treats a wide range of clients. I see just about everything and everyone, except children (12 and under). I have one client who identifies as ASD, and a couple of others who might reasonably qualify but who have no interest in the diagnosis (and I'm not about to push it on them).

In another noteworthy instance, I tried to treat a couple whose teenaged daughter was likely ASD but undiagnosed. She was at odds with her parents, however, and refused to engage in family therapy. I tried so hard to convince her I meant well. I was able to coax her into my office for a one-on-one, but after just two sessions it felt like I was trying to counsel a sphinx. None of my training prepared me for the impregnable wall that is a teen girl in full-blown shrug mode. There may also have been some latent issues of my own that her angsty coldness triggered in me, too. Brought back some old bullying issues I'd thought were behind me. Ultimately, I was unable to make an ounce of progress with her, so I took the L and excused her from treatment. It hurt then, and still does. I have never felt so bad at my job. To this day, I sort of worry that she felt trapped in that office with me. Unsafe. Unhelpable.

 

[stickygirl]

I've often seen people who've listened into a discussion about asd who may exclaim "Hey, I do that" to conclude "Maybe I'm autistic too?"
Maybe you are, maybe not. The odds are you're not, because the stats still say 1:100. You can certainly share the feelings and processes that might be expressed in autistic individuals, because they are human too - it's not like they come from a different planet!

Diagnosis comes from observation and consultation over a period of time in order to tick a variety of boxes. In the same way you can see a person on the street at a distance and conclude they have two working legs and a red coat. You need to get closer to glean more information: to discover if they are right-handed, speak English, or like impressionist painters ... ( I'd love a red coat btw - I've got a sailing jacket but not a nice winter coat to wear out casually... only saying).
My counsellor concluded after about five hours of meetings that I had autistic traits. So I'm not pure-breed autie, but those traits were enough to cause me a good deal of anxiety. I didn't need a label or badge to prove anything to anyone and happily, I can cope with most social and work situations and know what to do if things get difficult for me. Understanding how I tend to react meant I understood 'me' better instead of comparing 'me' to NT folks and then trying to match their way of doing things.

As I've mentioned before, if you're anxious or depressed or suffering mental health issues, then it really is worth taking the time to find the cause. When you in the storm you can imagine the sun will never shine and, besides, you wouldn't give a shit if it did! That's not a healthy attitude by anyone's standards, so go get some help with things.

 

[stickygirl]

I chanced upon this snippet from the 2011 movie, Hanna. It ends with her first experience of electricity, which reminded me of being overloaded and close to meltdown.
It would be wrong to compare the fictional character played by Saoirse Ronan as an aspie. It is fiction but there are naturally some parallels.

 

[Dogma52]

My granddaughter was diagnosed at 15 months. She is 8 now. One of her stims is to lay on the floor and rub her genitals (dry hump). Not wanting to stigmatize her, we just tell her that she needs to do that in her room or a private place. She seems fine with that.

 

[stickygirl]

My granddaughter was diagnosed at 15 months. She is 8 now. One of her stims is to lay on the floor and rub her genitals (dry hump). Not wanting to stigmatize her, we just tell her that she needs to do that in her room or a private place. She seems fine with that.

That type of innocent behaviour must be pretty shocking to a parent or other adult. Yup - that's the right thing to tell her: no fuss, no shock but a firm rule.
All kids need boundaries and they need to be observed by both sides. Temple Grandin points out that she was given strict rules that were tough on her as a child because they didn't make sense at the time. Reflecting on them as an adult she acknowledges that was the best course of action and benefit lifelong.
'Rules are rules' simple. 'Okay I'll work within them...'

 

[stickygirl]

A bit of a brag here - bigging it up for the aspies.

I think autistic people make the best drivers: when we're at the wheel, we're doing one job - driving. We don't get distracted by random conversation ( I have told him 'Quiet, I'm driving' ) and generally we abide by the rules... okay maybe a little over the limit on motorways.

I've snuck glances at other road users who seem to be making cakes, doing their make-up or talking on the damned phone, quite apart from sitting on your tail in a 30 limit. Take today - it was -5C, 50m fog and the surface may have been grit treated, maybe not. We don't get icy conditions often, so 'no, mate pushing me to go faster won't work and yes, having your headlights on is a sensible idea'.

I'm not saying we have gained as much experience as a rally driver, but we are doing one job - driving.

 

[Smal3hard5cfnm]

A bit of a brag here - bigging it up for the aspies.

I think autistic people make the best drivers: when we're at the wheel, we're doing one job - driving. We don't get distracted by random conversation ( I have told him 'Quiet, I'm driving' ) and generally we abide by the rules... okay maybe a little over the limit on motorways.

I've snuck glances at other road users who seem to be making cakes, doing their make-up or talking on the damned phone, quite apart from sitting on your tail in a 30 limit. Take today - it was -5C, 50m fog and the surface may have been grit treated, maybe not. We don't get icy conditions often, so 'no, mate pushing me to go faster won't work and yes, having your headlights on is a sensible idea'.

I'm not saying we have gained as much experience as a rally driver, but we are doing one job - driving.

I see tale gating as intimidation, I can look after other things in the car because I naturally prioritise the driving so a quick glance at a map is no problem. Well done for standing up to others, per pressure can be difficult to deal with.

 

[stickygirl]

Can I put a question out there - specifically to autistic people?
I've made a point of saying that i don't struggle too much with my autism, particularly post diagnosis. So I've seen people have meltdowns, but I can't remember ever having one, but I do have shutdowns.

I remember having a really intense argument with a gf at home to the point where I just stopped talking or reacting. It was like a bubble had come between me and the world. I'm on the inside, aware that I'm locked into something, but also thinking 'This is weird. I can hear my gf talking' . Then heard her saying my name because I'd gone unresponsive ( still sitting up, swinging my legs ) and she thought I was messing around. I guess it went on a minute or two or three and then I came back. I was fully conscious and I knew I could talk if I wanted to, but I was too intrigued by the experience to bother.

Sorry, long question. Anyone?
These have only happened a few times that I recall and always as a reaction to stress. I used to cut to distract myself from stress and those moments felt like I was in a dreamlike trance too.

Again, I'm not hanging out my dirty laundry to illicit sympathy. Fuck that. It's just sharing stuff, saying it out loud and hearing other people share their experiences helps the next person, who may be lurking but too embarrassed to say anything.
Lit is pretty much anonymous and I am of course a gorgeous golden retriever who types shit.