Bistro Bijou

[Angeline]

Okay, you've found another kink that I just can't get. *shakes head* Diapering is just beyond me.

Me neither. I figure I've changed all the diapers I intend to change until I have a grandchild.

I can't get into knife play or serious pain inflicting (though I love a good spanking as much as the next girl) because I have a family member who was the victim of violence. It's too real for me. But fortunately my darling and I share all the same fantasies as far as I can tell so we're happy where we are and we explore in the directions we like.

Darlin, all sorts of people have been in the same situation, and done the same exact thing. Abusers have a way of messing with your head, making you think that it is your fault, that you are flawed. When, in reality, it is their fault, they are the badly flawed ones, and your only mistake was to fall for them in the first place. Abusers get inside your head and reset what you think is proper and right, and replace it with their twisted definitions.

To be frank, you are a woman that loves, and loves deeply. Passionate, but with self-esteem issues. You have great desires, needs, and lusts, and guilt over those same needs. And you are wired to enjoy some kinds of pain, or at least to tolerate it well, and also wired for the sort of guilt that has you telling yourself that you deserve this.

And you are a sweet lady that will sacrifice for the man she loves. You probably thought, or believed, that if you loved that man harder, showe dhim how much you cared, and did everything in the world for him that he would realise how much you loved him and treat you right.

Does any of this make you a bad or flawed person? Or does it just make you a person that loves with all she has, and made a poor choice of who to love? You don't sound flawed to me, sweetheart. You sound grand and romantic and very worthwhile.

This is all conjecture, and is based on the general traits I've seen in abuse victims, plus those you've displayed in your posts and writing. If I am off the mark, forgive me. And none of this was meant to cause you any pain or offense. It is all just observation. *hugs*

I see the results of this every day. There is an incredible woman sitting right now some 500 miles away from me who suffered through this, felt this, lived this for almost three years. I love her fiercely, and work quietly each day to ensure that she knows that she is loved, that she is worthwhile, that she is a wonderful, beautiful person. Slowly I am trying to help her get past what was done to her, what she went through. It's hard. Probably much harder than she expected.

I can't think of a better way to spend my time though.

This is very impressive Homie. This is why I like you. You have a good heart.

And where is that Cheffie? I'm about to make an apple galette, which is highly complicated and I want some props. *pouts*

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Don't think you can heal me honey, no one can my guilt lies in the fact I didn't stop the original abuse when I quite easily could have, I went back for more thus proving how bad and how flawed I was even at that age
You should have an ante surge on your computer

Dearest, I could write a book about your post. The false guilt, and that's absolutely what it is, can be one of the worst things to overcome when recovering from abuse. I understand. I am in therapy right now for a history of rapes and sexual assaults. The guilt and shame are not yours to own.

Darlin, all sorts of people have been in the same situation, and done the same exact thing. Abusers have a way of messing with your head, making you think that it is your fault, that you are flawed. When, in reality, it is their fault, they are the badly flawed ones, and your only mistake was to fall for them in the first place. Abusers get inside your head and reset what you think is proper and right, and replace it with their twisted definitions.

To be frank, you are a woman that loves, and loves deeply. Passionate, but with self-esteem issues. You have great desires, needs, and lusts, and guilt over those same needs. And you are wired to enjoy some kinds of pain, or at least to tolerate it well, and also wired for the sort of guilt that has you telling yourself that you deserve this.

And you are a sweet lady that will sacrifice for the man she loves. You probably thought, or believed, that if you loved that man harder, showe dhim how much you cared, and did everything in the world for him that he would realise how much you loved him and treat you right.

Does any of this make you a bad or flawed person? Or does it just make you a person that loves with all she has, and made a poor choice of who to love? You don't sound flawed to me, sweetheart. You sound grand and romantic and very worthwhile.

This is all conjecture, and is based on the general traits I've seen in abuse victims, plus those you've displayed in your posts and writing. If I am off the mark, forgive me. And none of this was meant to cause you any pain or offense. It is all just observation. *hugs*

I see the results of this every day. There is an incredible woman sitting right now some 500 miles away from me who suffered through this, felt this, lived this for almost three years. I love her fiercely, and work quietly each day to ensure that she knows that she is loved, that she is worthwhile, that she is a wonderful, beautiful person. Slowly I am trying to help her get past what was done to her, what she went through. It's hard. Probably much harder than she expected.

I can't think of a better way to spend my time though.

You have a lot of insight into abuse. Recovery from abuse is a hard road. It almost takes total rewiring to undo the damage done to the self-esteem and self-image. But, it sounds like you already know this.

-Sheila

 

[Homburg]

Me neither. I figure I've changed all the diapers I intend to change until I have a grandchild.

I can't get into knife play or serious pain inflicting (though I love a good spanking as much as the next girl) because I have a family member who was the victim of violence. It's too real for me. But fortunately my darling and I share all the same fantasies as far as I can tell so we're happy where we are and we explore in the directions we like.

And that is the key to healthy sexual relationships IMO.

This is very impressive Homie. This is why I like you. You have a good heart.

Thank you

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Trying to think how to answer this fully ... I had two abusers who abused in different ways, my mother who hit me and used verbal abuse to tell me how worthless I was and the man who offered if not love then some sort of physical escape that was in its way a comfort I suppose but it garbled it all in my head because even I knew it was wrong at that age and in a way proving what SHE was saying about how bad I was. He never threatened me he never told me not to tell he was just there somewhere to run to and to feel nice when what should have been home and safety just wasn't. When a child gets told all her life shes not good enough she is bad it gets a hold and it won't let go. Even when I have had love (like now) I can't beleive it and I have to keep searching, but that searching has no end because I will never really belive and I shall shut up how noe because I have let thr demon out again and I cant see the kys for tears. I hope your lady has finally ended her search in you and that more importantly she knows deep in her soul she has found you

 

[Angeline]

And that is the key to healthy sexual relationships IMO.

I think so. My ex just couldn't talk about sex (or much of anything for that matter) and he always treated me like I wanted it too much. And we're talking like more than once a week lol, so it was far from "too much" in my mind. Now I'm with someone who will talk with me about anything and is really open about sex and everything else. What a difference it makes. Communication is the best aphrodaisiac of all, methinks.

Thank you

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Trying to think how to answer this fully ... I had two abusers who abused in different ways, my mother who hit me and used verbal abuse to tell me how worthless I was and the man who offered if not love then some sort of physical escape that was in its way a comfort I suppose but it garbled it all in my head because even I knew it was wrong at that age and in a way proving what SHE was saying about how bad I was. He never threatened me he never told me not to tell he was just there somewhere to run to and to feel nice when what should have been home and safety just wasn't. When a child gets told all her life shes not good enough she is bad it gets a hold and it won't let go. Even when I have had love (like now) I can't beleive it and I have to keep searching, but that searching has no end because I will never really belive and I shall shut up how noe because I have let thr demon out again and I cant see the kys for tears. I hope your lady has finally ended her search in you and that more importantly she knows deep in her soul she has found you

*hugs*
You are not alone.
I have found it extremely helpful to get the free counseling offered at the sexual assault resource center in my town. If you have such an organization near you, I strongly recommend it. Reccovery from abuse is just not something anyone can do alone.
I had to be hospitalized twice recently (due to the assaults that triggered posttraumatic stress disorder and worsened my underlying bipolar disorder). It took me that huge step backwards in order to take leaps forwards. I hope you find what you need.
You know the movie "What About Bob?" Well, recovery from abuse is a series of baby steps. Be patient with yourself. Challenge those negative thoughts and perceptions of yourself with self-affirmations. It's extremely difficult at first, but it does get easier.
You are not alone.

 

[Homburg]

You have a lot of insight into abuse. Recovery from abuse is a hard road. It almost takes total rewiring to undo the damage done to the self-esteem and self-image. But, it sounds like you already know this.

-Sheila

That is what i am working on. Sort of. I'm no therapist or counselor, but I know what she needs to feel proper, to feel like herself. And that is the place where I take her.

And, honestly, I wish I didn't have to have this insight. I wish that this shit didn't occur. I get so goddamned angry when I think about people being hurt by those that claim to love them. It twists me up inside and reaches places that aren't safe in any way.

----

Trying to think how to answer this fully ... I had two abusers who abused in different ways, my mother who hit me and used verbal abuse to tell me how worthless I was and the man who offered if not love then some sort of physical escape that was in its way a comfort I suppose but it garbled it all in my head because even I knew it was wrong at that age and in a way proving what SHE was saying about how bad I was. He never threatened me he never told me not to tell he was just there somewhere to run to and to feel nice when what should have been home and safety just wasn't. When a child gets told all her life shes not good enough she is bad it gets a hold and it won't let go. Even when I have had love (like now) I can't beleive it and I have to keep searching, but that searching has no end because I will never really belive and I shall shut up how noe because I have let thr demon out again and I cant see the kys for tears. I hope your lady has finally ended her search in you and that more importantly she knows deep in her soul she has found you

Oh, sweetheart, don't bottle it up so much. I know it hurts to let it out, but if I have learned anything it is that those demons are afraid of one thing - being out in the open. Bottling that stuff up and fearing it just keeps it powerful in your pysche. Get it out, find a therapist, or a friend that listens well and will hold you when you cry. Don't let that demon sit on your neck.

I hope she has ended her search in me too. I hope that you've ended your search in your man. He sounds lovely for you.

Thank heart, sweet lady

 

[Homburg]

I think so. My ex just couldn't talk about sex (or much of anything for that matter) and he always treated me like I wanted it too much. And we're talking like more than once a week lol, so it was far from "too much" in my mind. Now I'm with someone who will talk with me about anything and is really open about sex and everything else. What a difference it makes. Communication is the best aphrodaisiac of all, methinks.

Abso-freakin-lutely. Communication is it.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

And, honestly, I wish I didn't have to have this insight. I wish that this shit didn't occur. I get so goddamned angry when I think about people being hurt by those that claim to love them. It twists me up inside and reaches places that aren't safe in any way.

I think one of the worst things that happened through my trauma was the loss of friends who blamed me for my rapes and assaults. I've lost at least 5 friends over the past 8 months due to this. Most people just don't understand. And, in our society, it is common for the victim to take the brunt of the blame for what was done to them. It's just sad. It took me awhile to realize that they must not have really been my friends to begin with. No matter what the circumstances, it is never the victim's fault.

That's why I insist that people recovering from abuse need to do so with a therapist trained to handle this type of therapy. There are just too many people who don't understand the depths of the damage and the dynamcs of the abuser-victim relationship.

 

[myinnerslut]

i have been sitting here for a good five minutes staring at the screen trying to think of what to say. its hard to think when memories turn your stomach and bring tears to your eyes.

its been a bit over thee months since i was tied to an abusive relationship. one that took everything i was proud of and convinced me it wasnt enough. one that took every subject i was knolwedgeble on and made me feel like a gradeschooler who hadnt done her homework. one who regularly made me cry myself to sleep while still trying to think of wasys to please him so he would see that i loved him. one that used BDSM as a shield for him to strike me when angry, to lash out with whatever was at hand, be it a stick or a plastic hanger. one who burned my skin with neglect in a scene, and one who turned a flogger backwards to strike with the wooden handle becuase the intended effect wasnt enough for him. one who made my sexual responses, let along pleasures, into a bad thing that i was to be ashamed of and even punished for. one who strategically isolated me from my friends over a period of years. one who probably had another relationship going on in maryland while i was ruitinly neglected and fed just enough emotion to keep me thinking he must still love me.

writing that out has made it blatently clear that im not over it yet. i wanted to be over it soon, in a few days. a week. to push it as far behind me as possible but it doesnt work like that. i still find myself defending him. my logical mind wants to force me to be quiet but i still hear the words come out of my mouth "but he didnt mean to" "he was just angry" "he didnt want to hurt me that badly". sometimes i hate him. and sometimes i still feel bad for him and hate myself for it.

realizing you are in an abusive relationship is not easy. i should know. i wasnt the one who realized it. i fought the idea tooth and nail. i suppose time is the key to healing. time and love. i suppose. its still too soon for me to know.

i have happily found a man who has showed me i was not bad. that i was good enough. that i can love. that its ok to want sex. that he way i am wired is not an excuse to beat me and discard me.

i found this persn who loves me. and its so incredibly different. but its still so very hard. only three months. i wish it were enough.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

i still find myself defending him. my logical mind wants to force me to be quiet but i still hear the words come out of my mouth "but he didnt mean to" "he was just angry" "he didnt want to hurt me that badly". sometimes i hate him. and sometimes i still feel bad for him and hate myself for it.

You bring up a good point. I am too empathetic. I'm working on that in therapy right now. I have made excuse after excuse for my abusers' actions.. everything from their drug and alcohol use to even speculating that maybe they were abused as children.
Would I EVER accept any abusive behavior from myself for any reason? Never!
Yet, here I am making excuses for people who hurt me. I never pressed charges against any of the abusers and one man who assaulted me twice lives across the street from me. My therapist's solution: Fix up my house, sell it, and move away from him. That's not even an option for me.

Sorry-- I digress... but, I totally understand making excuses for other's abusive behavior. It must be tied to self-esteem issues.

 

[Homburg]

i have been sitting here for a good five minutes staring at the screen trying to think of what to say. its hard to think when memories turn your stomach and bring tears to your eyes.

I was afraid of this when I wrote my initial posts on the topic. In the end, I decided that it was better to discuss it and hope that Annie and others might find some worth in those words.

I love you, kitten, and I apologise for bringing up such hard memories

sometimes i hate him. and sometimes i still feel bad for him and hate myself for it.

Don't hate yourself, doll. You don't deserve it. And don't hate him either. You don't need that poison in your heart. I will handle that poison enough for you.

realizing you are in an abusive relationship is not easy. i should know. i wasnt the one who realized it. i fought the idea tooth and nail. i suppose time is the key to healing. time and love. i suppose. its still too soon for me to know.

You will heal. You've healed a lot in the past three months alone.

i have happily found a man who has showed me i was not bad. that i was good enough. that i can love. that its ok to want sex. that he way i am wired is not an excuse to beat me and discard me.

i found this persn who loves me. and its so incredibly different. but its still so very hard. only three months. i wish it were enough.

I love you, doll.

I can't say it often enough.

--

This thread has taken a turn for the grim. I'm responsible for a good portion of it, and apologise. I hope that everyone understands that I did not intend it to be dark. I was simply trying to help someone that I have come to care about.

 

[normal jean]

Don't think you can heal me honey, no one can my guilt lies in the fact I didn't stop the original abuse when I quite easily could have, I went back for more thus proving how bad and how flawed I was even at that age
You should have an ante surge on your computer

Hon, I went back for it again and again and again, ( with hubby and with my online Sir) so I am as guilty as you perceive yourself to be.

and I do have a surge protector,but you should see the lightning we get, it's monstrous, I just don't take any chances since I can't get another computer as easily when all I have to do is take a break until the storm passes I guess I could use teh lap top, but then i have to charge it since I let my gilie use it and she often leaves my battery drained...

 

[Guest]

*goose*

 

[unpredictablebijou]

My goodness, my goodness, my goodness. Four pages of beauty to catch up on here. And well, the Bistro can be lots of things, Hommie - I don't see this as grim so much as a nice group therapy discussion, perhaps over some wine and cheeses and desserts (Ange, you're right, where IS that Chef?)

There's too much to respond to individually but here's my little bit to add.

I too was a cutter, (though they didn't have a name for it in 1978 and I really thought I was the only one who had ever thought of this) and I too hid it; it was not attention-seeking, but rather a desire to "feel" something as an understimulated, fucked-up and confused adolescent girl.

Now that I'm an adult and more educated about things like 'high sensation' and 'pain play', I understand that part of it was a way of dealing with grief and the abuse I was suffering at the hands of a stepfather, and part of it was a natural desire to experiment with high sensation. This is where I get to a point that Homburg made about his daughter seeming to have some tendencies in that direction.

Obviously your daughter isn't dealing with abuse issues, but it might be partly a way to explore high sensation and the nature of the body. Even children are sexual, in their way, and most of it has to do with a full-body sense, rather than the compartmentalized way that adults are taught to approach sexual stimulation.

I agree that it's important to keep an eye on her, especially since her primary male role model is such a dominant male, (a gorgeously healthy and self-aware dominant male, by the way) but I have always suspected that if children were taught that the whole body is sexy and beautiful and to be respected (i.e. it's no more okay for someone to touch your shoulder in a way that makes you uncomfortable than it is okay for someone to touch a sexual organ without permission) then children who are drawn to high sensation will be able to explore that without being self-destructive, either literally or figuratively.

Just a theory, of course.

And here's another theory, so long as I'm on a roll. The discussion of abuse victims being "too empathetic" falls into my world as an exploration of potential psychic ability, or at least sensitivity. People who are highly psychically absorbent or sensitive tend to end up in co-dependency more often, because your stomach ache is literally my stomach ache, and I'm driven to try to fix it for you. That can lead to manipulation and control by the partner, who realizes that he can drive you around just by being in a bad mood and demanding that you fix it for him.

You can't really fix how empathetic you are, or (in my lingo) how psychic or sensitive you are, but you can develop both internal and external ways of limiting the effect other people's moods have on you and what you do to respond. A good therapist is going to hand you some tools that will enable you to say, "I feel compassion and sympathy with your stomach ache or bad mood, but ultimately it belongs to you, and you're responsible for it. I will help if I can, but I won't take it on for you."

More concisely, as one of my first shamanic teachers said to me long ago: The patient is the one with the disease. That's helpful for empaths, sensitives, clergy and healers, and of course for those in the actual medical and counseling professions as well.

There are ways to teach someone to be less involuntarily buffeted by the moods of people around them, if one acknowledges the possibility of actual psychic sensitivity, but I won't get all airy-fairy shabbadoo on you right now.

I can't say enough about how much I appreciate this place and the people in it. and NJ, especially for you, something I never do:



bj

 

[normal jean]

I was afraid of this when I wrote my initial posts on the topic. In the end, I decided that it was better to discuss it and hope that Annie and others might find some worth in those words.

I love you, kitten, and I apologise for bringing up such hard memories



Don't hate yourself, doll. You don't deserve it. And don't hate him either. You don't need that poison in your heart. I will handle that poison enough for you.



You will heal. You've healed a lot in the past three months alone.



I love you, doll.

I can't say it often enough.

--

This thread has taken a turn for the grim. I'm responsible for a good portion of it, and apologise. I hope that everyone understands that I did not intend it to be dark. I was simply trying to help someone that I have come to care about.

The grimness isn't your fault, it's mine. I brought it up. I'm sorry. I had a feeling I was a thread killer and I won;t let that happen here.

and I was thinking the same thing, where IS cheffie? I could sure use some cheesecake right about now.

does anyone here have a recipe for an authentic new york cheescake with sour cream and ricotta and all that other good stuff?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I have tried therapy and it was grim although I do appreciate that my counsellor was the wrong one to be doing it at all although she denied it she still had issues of her own, just because she had been there didnt make her right for me in fact she made it worse. Don't think I am belittling your suffering by my next statement because it isnt meant that way but you see you were abused by outsiders as it were .. it's not the sexual abuse that is hurting me and anyway I have big chunks of that missing from my memory .. but my mother. Howwwwwww tell me how do I recover from what she did to to me? The person who is supposed to protect you, love you show you how to live life . Am I suppose to love her or hate her? She told me it would have been better if I was never born.....how do I live with that how do I recover? Oh yes I know it was her problem not mine but I don't have to wonder what hell is like .. I've been there already. Yes I survived and the only way I keep my sanity is to bury it all way in a deep dark place because I don't know if letting it out will take my mind with it

 

[normal jean]

*grumble*

I just came from my college course classroom (online) where one of my teammates took it upon herself to make 2 alterations to my final draft of our team paper and submit them as complete to the professor... all fine and dandy except that her revisions took our paper from being correct APA format to incorrect. The changes she made were relatively minor and probably will not cost us points....
but it's the principle of the thing.. to make changes and submit it before the other teammates okayed the changes???? That just sucks!

I've got some not-so-very-nice names for her going through my mind rght now.

-Sheila

One poetry class I took.... the first day, the Professor divided us into groups. I don't usually do group work because I usually end up doing ALL the work and I tend to be a perfectionist when it comes to my courses and will not tolerate a slacker... and also, the room was in the middle of the building and had no windows and only one door. I was nauseous as soon as that door was closed. I think that had something to do with it also.

at break I dropped the class and picked up microbiology. in there I was the only one responsible for my grade.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

And here's another theory, so long as I'm on a roll. The discussion of abuse victims being "too empathetic" falls into my world as an exploration of potential psychic ability, or at least sensitivity. People who are highly psychically absorbent or sensitive tend to end up in co-dependency more often, because your stomach ache is literally my stomach ache, and I'm driven to try to fix it for you. That can lead to manipulation and control by the partner, who realizes that he can drive you around just by being in a bad mood and demanding that you fix it for him.

You can't really fix how empathetic you are, or (in my lingo) how psychic or sensitive you are, but you can develop both internal and external ways of limiting the effect other people's moods have on you and what you do to respond. A good therapist is going to hand you some tools that will enable you to say, "I feel compassion and sympathy with your stomach ache or bad mood, but ultimately it belongs to you, and you're responsible for it. I will help if I can, but I won't take it on for you."

More concisely, as one of my first shamanic teachers said to me long ago: The patient is the one with the disease. That's helpful for empaths, sensitives, clergy and healers, and of course for those in the actual medical and counseling professions as well.

There are ways to teach someone to be less involuntarily buffeted by the moods of people around them, if one acknowledges the possibility of actual psychic sensitivity, but I won't get all airy-fairy shabbadoo on you right now.


bj

Oh, my... brings me back to that days that I used to cry whenver my kids got hurt. I never put it together. Now, I look at it like, "Duh!"

I agree that you can not change your level of empathy. You can't learn empathy and you can't unlearn it either. You can only learn safeguards, like you said.

Wow. There is so much I would like to ask you right now, but I don't want to hijack the thread. LOL

-Sheila

 

[normal jean]

I have tried therapy and it was grim although I do appreciate that my counsellor was the wrong one to be doing it at all although she denied it she still had issues of her own, just because she had been there didnt make her right for me in fact she made it worse. Don't think I am belittling your suffering by my next statement because it isnt meant that way but you see you were abused by outsiders as it were .. it's not the sexual abuse that is hurting me and anyway I have big chunks of that missing from my memory .. but my mother. Howwwwwww tell me how do I recover from what she did to to me? The person who is supposed to protect you, love you show you how to live life . Am I suppose to love her or hate her? She told me it would have been better if I was never born.....how do I live with that how do I recover? Oh yes I know it was her problem not mine but I don't have to wonder what hell is like .. I've been there already. Yes I survived and the only way I keep my sanity is to bury it all way in a deep dark place because I don't know if letting it out will take my mind with it

My mom wasn't as drastic as that, I know she loved me, but damn she had her faults. And I am not belittling your suffering sweetie, but what I did was tell myself that she had her demons and when she hurt me, it wasn't my fault. something like someone said earlier,. but there has been a lot said today. good therapy...

and can I tell you something sort of funny?

when I was in rehab, my counselor was named Vivian Venum...she was scary looking but had a heart of gold, having been in my situation herself.

~~~

and hey BJ, I know I am an emoticon-slut, but getting 3 from you means a world to me!!

hugs and hugs and hugs

 

[unpredictablebijou]

These are dark, rough questions.

I had an abusive mother as well, and did therapy for a long time, but one of my primary role models is a good friend, K, whose stepfather just beat the shit out of her for most of her childhood.

Most people would be pretty fucked up by that, and of course she was. But she's a strong, practical sort, and there came a point (she tells me) at which she made a simple decision: if I continue to struggle with this, to be defined by it, then he wins. And I will not let that motherfucker win.

It does sound overly simple, but I think that within that are some strong clues. If a stranger in the street called you a name, or hit you, you'd be hurt, but you'd put them in their proper value: this is a shit head, and I won't validate the abuse by taking it on as part of my self-definition.

Yes, it's a little harder with a long-term situation, with something you chose, or with someone who purports to love you, but at its base, it's the same process, the same sensation. The shit head on the street may have redeeming qualities, may be forgivable, but you don't struggle with that. You know their role in your life and you don't worry about their general worth or validity.

I love K for her simple take on this. Obviously her stepfather was a three-dimensional person, who perhaps did much good as well as evil, and she acknowledges this, but it's not her job to judge his general worth, just to move through his effects on her and refuse to let him win.

I was raised to believe I was possessed by demons. I was nineteen before I could look you in the eye and honestly tell you that I did not believe there were demons inside me controlling my behavior. Mom is still alive, and still believes that, but I decided that I would not let her win. To struggle continuously with the issues, rather than to simply move forward into who I'd like to be, who I know I really am, what I'd do if I were free of that perception, that is the choice.

It's all I got to offer, but it's something.

I totally love everybody in here. Seriously. I'm blown away right now by what gorgeous and triumphant people you are. Not just survivors but conquerors.

bless you all.
bj

 

[Homburg]

My goodness, my goodness, my goodness. Four pages of beauty to catch up on here. And well, the Bistro can be lots of things, Hommie - I don't see this as grim so much as a nice group therapy discussion, perhaps over some wine and cheeses and desserts (Ange, you're right, where IS that Chef?)

I just don't want to pull things down, and put out the folks hoping for light talk about food, poetry, and whatnot.

Now that I'm an adult and more educated about things like 'high sensation' and 'pain play', I understand that part of it was a way of dealing with grief and the abuse I was suffering at the hands of a stepfather, and part of it was a natural desire to experiment with high sensation. This is where I get to a point that Homburg made about his daughter seeming to have some tendencies in that direction.

Obviously your daughter isn't dealing with abuse issues, but it might be partly a way to explore high sensation and the nature of the body. Even children are sexual, in their way, and most of it has to do with a full-body sense, rather than the compartmentalized way that adults are taught to approach sexual stimulation.

I agree that it's important to keep an eye on her, especially since her primary male role model is such a dominant male, (a gorgeously healthy and self-aware dominant male, by the way) but I have always suspected that if children were taught that the whole body is sexy and beautiful and to be respected (i.e. it's no more okay for someone to touch your shoulder in a way that makes you uncomfortable than it is okay for someone to touch a sexual organ without permission) then children who are drawn to high sensation will be able to explore that without being self-destructive, either literally or figuratively.

Just a theory, of course.

MIS was down for a visit and she was hanging out with youngest daughter. Youngest daughter, out of the blue, turns to MIS and said "And now is the time when I spank my bottom!" and proceeded to whap herself a few times.

My life is so surreal.

And here's another theory, so long as I'm on a roll. The discussion of abuse victims being "too empathetic" falls into my world as an exploration of potential psychic ability, or at least sensitivity. People who are highly psychically absorbent or sensitive tend to end up in co-dependency more often, because your stomach ache is literally my stomach ache, and I'm driven to try to fix it for you. That can lead to manipulation and control by the partner, who realizes that he can drive you around just by being in a bad mood and demanding that you fix it for him.

Where does that leave me? You've seen how perceptive I am. We've discussed it. Yet I am perfectly happy to hurt people. This is really one of my biggest confusions in my own make-up. I am empathic in some ways, and utterly untouched in others.

-----

The grimness isn't your fault, it's mine. I brought it up. I'm sorry. I had a feeling I was a thread killer and I won;t let that happen here.

Pfft, my fault. Don't make me do something unpleasant to you to assure that you understand that it is _my_ fault.

I am a vicious bastard when it comes to tickling.

I have my eye on you. And it is MY fault. Hands off my blame.

 

[normal jean]

I just don't want to pull things down, and put out the folks hoping for light talk about food, poetry, and whatnot.



MIS was down for a visit and she was hanging out with youngest daughter. Youngest daughter, out of the blue, turns to MIS and said "And now is the time when I spank my bottom!" and proceeded to whap herself a few times.

My life is so surreal.



Where does that leave me? You've seen how perceptive I am. We've discussed it. Yet I am perfectly happy to hurt people. This is really one of my biggest confusions in my own make-up. I am empathic in some ways, and utterly untouched in others.

-----



Pfft, my fault. Don't make me do something unpleasant to you to assure that you understand that it is _my_ fault.

I am a vicious bastard when it comes to tickling.

I have my eye on you. And it is MY fault. Hands off my blame.

funny how you chose the one thing I can't stand, and that is tickling. I am running for my life!!!

right to the store for some ricotta and sour cream and 5 bricks of Philly cream cheese...and 6 eggs

 

[Homburg]

funny how you chose the one thing I can't stand, and that is tickling. I am running for my life!!!

Funny? Harrumph, I know these things.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I just don't want to pull things down, and put out the folks hoping for light talk about food, poetry, and whatnot.

Sweetmeat, you're just helping to prove that the bistro has some depth to it. It's not all just amoral squalor in here.

Where does that leave me? You've seen how perceptive I am. We've discussed it. Yet I am perfectly happy to hurt people. This is really one of my biggest confusions in my own make-up. I am empathic in some ways, and utterly untouched in others.

Good question. But lemme ask you this:

Don't you think your own empathy helps you be a completely effective and healthy dom, in that you know how to sculpt an experience to please the bottom, to assist in their ecstasy? If you couldn't feel a shadow of it on your own skin and in your own heart, if you didn't acknowledge that connection you'd just be an abusive asshole, not a skilled dom.

Moreover, you obviously have that "your pain is not my pain" down in a very healthy way. We make our subs take responsibility for what they want, own it, in the same way an empath must give responsibility to a mate for their own state. We sense it, understand it, offer an experience, but we have boundaries that allow us to perceive but not take responsibility for it, except in the sense of being the provider of the desired experience.

There is little work more compassionate and generous than being a good dominant. It's a powerful responsibility and a way to offer healing as a gift to someone who needs assistance to explore their own crooked bits.

These are things of which I am quite sure.

Pfft, my fault. Don't make me do something unpleasant to you to assure that you understand that it is _my_ fault.

I am a vicious bastard when it comes to tickling.

I have my eye on you. And it is MY fault. Hands off my blame.

oooo NJ lucky you. One of the best doms on the board offering you a tickling/ spanking! woot!

bj