Bring back the adventurous, kinky wife I used to have

[hangdawg]

Actually of all the ideas thrown your way, swinging is the one most likely to give you success. But it's risky and you have to talk her into it. And you might not like sharing.

It's easy for people to sit her on the sidelines and look at your 20-year marriage and tell you to just seduce her or make you want her. Duh. Well what do you do when you can't make her want you despite trying? I think that is where you are at. Man, she's just not that into you anymore. Or my favorite idea, change your location for a few days and ditch the kid like that will solve your problems if you get lucky and get laid once. Your kid is ten right? You can't blame the kid for the bad sex life anymore. And it's not like the kid is keeping you up all night anymore.

Time to move on or accept the fact that your passionate love has changed to compassionate love.

That being said, take a look in the mirror and make sure you're not sabotaging your own efforts with a giant beer belly that has grown in the last decade. If you have bad hygiene or fitness, you can't blame her for passing on some dick.

Yeah, idk about that. I also don't know why three people in 4 days have mentioned it.
It's kind of been brought up and I get the idea that it's not cool with her, and, honestly as I've said before I'm not sure that I'm cool with it.
As for my physical presence, while I'm not a Brad Pitt in either physique or looks I'm not Zack Galafinackis either. I am not chiseled, but, I'm not fat either. My type of business has kept me strong and muscular with a bit of padding. Nowhere near a beer belly though. And trust me if you've done any kind of construction work there is no going a day or two without a shower. Hygiene is clean and vagina friendly everyday.

 

[hangdawg]

Ah...finally. We come to the real problem.

In other words, OP, it isn't you: it's her. And no matter how many times you tell her it's not her....it's still her.

This all gets back to what I originally posted. And believe me, I understand that most people aren't on board with what I suggested. That's why I took the time to describe other methods that would work just as well without that suggestion. Seriously, all it takes is a tiny bit of effort on the husband's part.

Well, I would most definitely say it's not all her. That will never be the case in any situation known to man. That's it's a one sided affair.
However, it enlightened me some and that's why I started up my thread. I would like to know how to spark herself that is not the one who is "not feeling good" about herself.
I actually really appreciate your feedback. I thought it very cool that you said swing, but, then you said that's not for everyone so try these several other things.
I actually was more looking for a woman's perspective because I don't have that in my own head.
We had a very round about conversation about a threesome that stemmed from my asking if she "wanted a menagie a tous" or however you spell that. I was talking about the red wine that we had a bottle of but put a little spin on it. She said she would but that she thought I wouldn't do it. Come to find out she thought I wouldn't do it because she says she'd want a guy, not a girl.
That's as far as that conversation went. However, it got two things going in my mind. One, she still has that kink, which is why I started this thread. Two, idk if I can go through with another penis in the room doing the deed while I'm right there lol.
Knowing my wife that was a spur of the moment off handed comment and I'm fairly certain that she wouldn't actually go through with it either. But, I'm open to that convo.

 

[Que]

Read Married Man Sex Life by Athol Kaye.

I'm writing this before reading the previous posts, So I am going to make some assumptions about the advice you are going to get on this.

Sorry, but ignore pretty much all of the advice you are getting about being even MORE "understanding" and "releaiving her burdens".

I have been where you are, then it got better (not following the above advice) then it regressed and (following the above sort of advice) it ended.

It is frustrating to me to read well-intentioned and completely wrong headed advice.

Assuming there is nothing wrong with your wife biologically, it is not that she is incapable of sexual attraction, it is that because of that changes that have come over you for all the best reasons, she is not attracted to you

No one scoffs at the very real, observable phenomenon of for example a woman 'nesting" as she enters the third trimester, right? These are hardwired behaviors.

Men also go through observable behavioral and physical changes as they settle into the role of husband and father. Testosterone drops measurably. Risk-taking behaviors you used to enjoy tend to subside. Like that.

In your role as husband and father you are now "safe" you provide for the nest and the physical and emotional comfort therein. This is often appreciated by the wives, but it is NOT sexy.

No amount of protest from women about how much they admire a man that does the dishes, science and anecdotal evidence shows they never leave their bad-ass husband for the domesticated god next-door that they watched hang up the laundry.

You have to do the things that women find attractive. There is no amount of housework or "lightening her burden" that is ever going to EARN you some sexual gratification. Even if in the unlikely event that she miraculously does 'put out' after you put in a little more of the same effort that you have spent YEARS trying, it wont be because she wants to jump your bones.

You have to think of your wife the same way you would any other woman you might meet and wish to bed. I realize it has been you are rusty. It can be done.

Women that say that THEY cannot be "gamed" don't ever have any explanation for that one time with the drummer at band camp, or that one night stand with the guy on the motorcycle.

When you are not having sexual relations with your wife you are BOTH at risk for an affair. It does not matter if you THINK that your wife has become asexual. People are not (typically) built to be asexual

edit:

Interestingly, Swingerjoe, is closer to right than he is wrong although swinging might be a bit of an extreme way to cannonball into the pool. It tracks somewhat though in the sense that to even SUGGEST such a thing is break-the-mold better than doing the same old appeasement and accommodating. The mere idea of the possibility that she might have to compete for YOUR attention at some swinger munch is the kind of competitive stimulative seed...but the same can be said for upping your look, changing your cologne, and starting to look like a man with options.

No matter what you do, following Athol Kaye's advice does no harm, It makes for a better you, better to date your wife, or failing that, dating your divorce lawyers secretary.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Find out where she is at - she may have just moved on from that level of interest or maybe just tired.

Love her - support her - you will get your turn again (or not)

she is behind the 'at.'

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ldtuSfm9g

Dedicated to the HT Lounge Lizards.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

“Until we can receive with an open heart, we're never really giving with an open heart. When we attach judgment to receiving help, we knowingly or unknowingly attach judgment to giving help.”
― Brené Brown

just something to think about.. it's been on my mind today

 

[adventrkupl]

I would have to disagree here. I don't believe that any individual should settle for mediocrity. You have one physical life here. We are capable of such an amazing thing, we just have to open up to those things. And this goes for any situation in life, not just my posting on Lit.
To use your analogy, I have customers that I need to satisfy to both fulfill my contract and to get a final payment. They won't settle for a mediocre bathroom or kitchen remodel because I've been doing this for 18 years and I'm tired, or thinking of something else, or not adventurous enough, or have been doing this for quite a long time.
I will not give up and roll over for mediocrity!

Never said you'll never complete another project. But marketing and overall approach to the endeavor has changed forever. Speaking from experience, I offer you the best of luck.

 

[subwannabe]

hangdawg: Just wanted you to know that my situation is kind of similar to yours. I identify with a lot of what you are saying. I haven't found a solution either. Sometimes we have pretty good sex but it is few and far between. Much of the time we don't have sex at all. Maybe once every two weeks on average. We have young children. We were much wilder before kids. There's a lot of things we have done before that she doesn't do now, mostly because she has gotten "rusty" and it's too much work. I've tried everything I can think of to try getting us back on track but it is like pulling teeth. She says she is always tired. She is and I understand that but then I come up with plans to work around that and it seems like she has no interest. She seems to have terrific mind blowing orgasms most of the time that we do it but that is enough to satisfy her for another two weeks. She shows about zero iniative. If I never iniated things myself we would never have sex. It's like she just does it once every two weeks because it is her wifely duties but I miss the days when she actually wanted it. Like I said before, there is no doubt that she enjoys it but then she is satisfied for another two weeks. I'm at wits end. I've tried everything I can think of. I don't even ask for advice here because I seriously doubt someone could suggest something that I haven't already tried (within reason, no threesome here either (not that I wouldn't mind)) and no cheating. You and I should make a pact that if one of us finds the answer we will let the other know.

 

[pa32]

What have you done to make yourself more attractive? Are you in the best physical shape you can get to be in? Are you leading in the relationship, or do you leave that up to her? How's your financial situation? Basically, tune up yourself and get your act together just as you would if you were trying to attract a new mate. Make so that you have the appearance of having other options. When there is outside interest, she'll likely up her game as well. Nothing works like a bit of competition. In the end, you can only "clean up your side of the street", When your side is cleaned up she'll likely follow suit. If she doesn't then you have a choice to make as to whether you settle for the status quo or leave. You need to do everything to up your game first though, or you'll find yourself in the same boat a few years down the road with your next wife.

 

[hangdawg]

“Until we can receive with an open heart, we're never really giving with an open heart. When we attach judgment to receiving help, we knowingly or unknowingly attach judgment to giving help.”
― Brené Brown

just something to think about.. it's been on my mind today

I am honored that this was on your mind today and you took enough time to equate that to my situation and come here and post it for me.
I take that quote two ways.
1) The people posting ideas here to help me out need to be given attention from me judgement free. Which I'm trying to do. I knew I would open myself to scrutiny and it's never easy to hear things that you don't want to but that is also when it's very necessary.
2) I am more of a giving person than receiving. Wow, my mind wandered after typing that sentence to things I won't type here, but, I will be giving that some serious consideration this evening. Thank you.

 

[hangdawg]

hangdawg: Just wanted you to know that my situation is kind of similar to yours. I identify with a lot of what you are saying. I haven't found a solution either. Sometimes we have pretty good sex but it is few and far between. Much of the time we don't have sex at all. Maybe once every two weeks on average. We have young children. We were much wilder before kids. There's a lot of things we have done before that she doesn't do now, mostly because she has gotten "rusty" and it's too much work. I've tried everything I can think of to try getting us back on track but it is like pulling teeth. She says she is always tired. She is and I understand that but then I come up with plans to work around that and it seems like she has no interest. She seems to have terrific mind blowing orgasms most of the time that we do it but that is enough to satisfy her for another two weeks. She shows about zero iniative. If I never iniated things myself we would never have sex. It's like she just does it once every two weeks because it is her wifely duties but I miss the days when she actually wanted it. Like I said before, there is no doubt that she enjoys it but then she is satisfied for another two weeks. I'm at wits end. I've tried everything I can think of. I don't even ask for advice here because I seriously doubt someone could suggest something that I haven't already tried (within reason, no threesome here either (not that I wouldn't mind)) and no cheating. You and I should make a pact that if one of us finds the answer we will let the other know.

I'm all in with that pact! I don't want to leave. I don't need a new situation to be happy. I would like to work this one out.
It's a weird thing with her not really seeming to want any kind of sex for a couple weeks and then when we do she is very into it. I know she still has it at those moments, so why not all the time? She will also occasionally suggest some things similar to when we were younger. So I know it's not that she's dead below the belt or above the neck. It's in there, I just need to figure out how to unleash it I think.
Keep in contact my man. We will get this thing done!

 

[Erochic]

Full disclosure : my av is a flattering version of myself - no photoshopping or editing, but flattering lighting and pose and cropping out that bit of tummy I'm not happy about.
And why not - accentuate the positive after all.

Which is my point.

A woman doesn't just want you to want sex, she wants you to want HER, admire HER, desire HER.

You said that your wife isn't feeling happy with herself. That's really understandable - what with the changes pregnancy brings to the body, the needs of child and home, maybe some weight gain. She probably feels like an invisible person in a lot of ways.

I don't go much into my personal stuff, I prefer just to focus on the wild sex bits... But I do have a lot of understanding of what you and also what she is going through.

This is a slightly different example but a couple if years ago I had some health problems and put a fair bit of weight on. I really was not comfortable with my body - but I was complimented wonderfully, very sexily and it helped me get comfortable with where I was and that I was still very desirable.

I'm not talking about generic compliments, but specific compliments about how beautiful or sexy or desirable he found particular things about me - the curve of my inner thigh, the fullness of my breasts, the curve of my neck and the way the hair was touching it etc etc.
There is nothing sexier during oral sex than to have someone admire your thighs and butt before diving in (My lover sometimes does this contemplative kind of oral sex and it is incredible). Or to know that the sight of *your* body, breasts, butt in front of him, riding him, under him is driving him out of his mind with desire.

But even before you get to the bedroom you want to be wanted. And that's a separate issue from the housework or earning the money. Of course if that is in balance and its all working smoothly and everyone is happy with that then that's ideal.
The date idea is a very good idea - simply because she can leave everything at home and you can spend some time and rediscover who you are together. Encourage her to dress up (maybe suggest clothes that you feel show off her body as you like) and show her that you think she is just as desirable as she used to be.

At the same time up the compliments and physical affection at home ... Not necessarily sexual advances but touches, hugs, kisses. Hold that morning kisses a little longer or take a proper kiss when she goes for a peck on the kiss as you go out the door to work.
Text her sweet things and maybe sexy things along with the usual mundane texts about picking up toilet paper.

The threesome with another guy is a very interesting conversation. She may have just been saying it to call your bluff - but you can play with that. The brain is the largest erogenous zone so talking about kinky things is a great way to feel more kinky and open. You don't ever have to do it, and in fact saying that you don't think you could ever actually do it, but it is a pretty hot idea and talking about it could be very arousing.
I've been in a couple of MFM threesomes, and they weren't your classic porn image but rather a very sensual experience where I was the center of attention. Four hands, two mouths, two dicks ... All focused on me.
You could talk about that, imagining it with her.

Also now that shes said that, when you go out you can point out the other guys who are desiring her, you never have to do anything about it for that to be an incredible turn on.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

2) I am more of a giving person than receiving. Wow, my mind wandered after typing that sentence to things I won't type here, but, I will be giving that some serious consideration this evening. Thank you.

more than anything, as a woman, I need to know that my partner needs me. When he is vulnerable with me, takes time to share with me, it gives me the freedom and safety to share that in return. Kindness is drawn to this behavior, and in that kindness, intimacy blossoms.

 

[subwannabe]

As I said before, I've already tried all of the things mentioned here. Every once in a while I would strike on something that worked for about a month and then it's over, kind of like the clock strikes midnight and your carriage turns back into a pumpkin. It also gets very frustrating and tiring to have to put 100% into the game on a regular constant basis while the other side just accepts it and doesn't put anything into the game themselves. Then, I revert back and quit trying as hard myself, basically throwing in the towel and giving up. While human relations are probably rarely 50/50 it gets depressing when the sex aspect isn't even close to the mark, especially when it had been before marriage/kids. Sometimes it seems like a blow up doll would show more iniative. I'm not into cheating but I am beginning to have a lot more empathy for those dirty old men who find a babe 30 years younger than them. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with being a dirty old man. Maybe they've just finally found someone that actually wants to have sex with them (for whatever reason). They may have decided that all women their own age don't want to have sex anymore so they find someone who does.

As a side note, I think that even though much of this started with young kids, I believe a lot of it has to do with starting birth control after we were done having kids. I'm not so sure how much is directly related to the kid thing and how much might be related to different hormone flow from the birth control. On top of that I had some health issues myself which put a monkey wrench into things for a while and now she just lays back waiting for me to decide when the time is right for me, not that she initiated much before that anyway. Before anyone mentions the communication thing - I've tried that so many times I have become hoarse. You can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long before you learn it is a waste of time. I read similar threads on here from time to time hoping to see a suggestion I haven't tried but I never do.

Handshake on the pact.

 

[subwannabe]

Easy question. You learn to take what you can get and enjoy the moments you do have, hoping that things will change in the future. I have read of a few instances where some women turn into wild sexual animals after hibernating during motherhood. Since this is the way it was before marriage there is always the hope that this could happen to us. Until then there is more to life than just sex. Also, this has been going on for close to 10 years now so I already have a lot of experience in dealing with it. It's not something new that just came up.

 

[hangdawg]

So out of curiosity, what if this never changes. I mean, you say you've tried everything and you have minor success for a limited time then it reverts to the "norm." How do you think you will handle it if this is just how it is?

Easy question. You learn to take what you can get and enjoy the moments you do have, hoping that things will change in the future. I have read of a few instances where some women turn into wild sexual animals after hibernating during motherhood. Since this is the way it was before marriage there is always the hope that this could happen to us. Until then there is more to life than just sex. Also, this has been going on for close to 10 years now so I already have a lot of experience in dealing with it. It's not something new that just came up.

I heard a long time ago that if you take a frog and throw it in boiling water it will jump right out. But, if you take a frog and put it in a pot of cold water, put the pot on the stove and bring it to a boil the frog will stay in and boil to death.
I wonder how many people in this position would stick around if after the first year of marriage she/he stopped and said, "Ok, I'm done having sex with you except for once or twice a month. I'm tired and I'm done". Instead what happens is someone is put into a pot of cold water and slowly boiled so that you aren't aware it's happening. This is what you're saying subwannbe?
Good question Rainshine. I was sure that I'd tried everything known to man to bring this back. Since I've recommitted to this I've mindfully left myself open to suggestions put up on this board. I've also been reading a couple books and have a few things to implement. My point is that I said to a couple people that I've talked to in person that I've tried everything, but, I really hadn't. I kept saying this is intolerable, yet I tolerated it. Winds of change coming up! And if I am bettering myself and changing and she is not then I guess I'll have some decisions down the road that currently I'm not even entertaining.

 

[hangdawg]

Full disclosure : my av is a flattering version of myself - no photoshopping or editing, but flattering lighting and pose and cropping out that bit of tummy I'm not happy about.
And why not - accentuate the positive after all.

Which is my point.

A woman doesn't just want you to want sex, she wants you to want HER, admire HER, desire HER.

You said that your wife isn't feeling happy with herself. That's really understandable - what with the changes pregnancy brings to the body, the needs of child and home, maybe some weight gain. She probably feels like an invisible person in a lot of ways.

I don't go much into my personal stuff, I prefer just to focus on the wild sex bits... But I do have a lot of understanding of what you and also what she is going through.

This is a slightly different example but a couple if years ago I had some health problems and put a fair bit of weight on. I really was not comfortable with my body - but I was complimented wonderfully, very sexily and it helped me get comfortable with where I was and that I was still very desirable.

I'm not talking about generic compliments, but specific compliments about how beautiful or sexy or desirable he found particular things about me - the curve of my inner thigh, the fullness of my breasts, the curve of my neck and the way the hair was touching it etc etc.
There is nothing sexier during oral sex than to have someone admire your thighs and butt before diving in (My lover sometimes does this contemplative kind of oral sex and it is incredible). Or to know that the sight of *your* body, breasts, butt in front of him, riding him, under him is driving him out of his mind with desire.

But even before you get to the bedroom you want to be wanted. And that's a separate issue from the housework or earning the money. Of course if that is in balance and its all working smoothly and everyone is happy with that then that's ideal.
The date idea is a very good idea - simply because she can leave everything at home and you can spend some time and rediscover who you are together. Encourage her to dress up (maybe suggest clothes that you feel show off her body as you like) and show her that you think she is just as desirable as she used to be.

At the same time up the compliments and physical affection at home ... Not necessarily sexual advances but touches, hugs, kisses. Hold that morning kisses a little longer or take a proper kiss when she goes for a peck on the kiss as you go out the door to work.
Text her sweet things and maybe sexy things along with the usual mundane texts about picking up toilet paper.

The threesome with another guy is a very interesting conversation. She may have just been saying it to call your bluff - but you can play with that. The brain is the largest erogenous zone so talking about kinky things is a great way to feel more kinky and open. You don't ever have to do it, and in fact saying that you don't think you could ever actually do it, but it is a pretty hot idea and talking about it could be very arousing.
I've been in a couple of MFM threesomes, and they weren't your classic porn image but rather a very sensual experience where I was the center of attention. Four hands, two mouths, two dicks ... All focused on me.
You could talk about that, imagining it with her.

Also now that shes said that, when you go out you can point out the other guys who are desiring her, you never have to do anything about it for that to be an incredible turn on.

I understand what you are saying about "want HER, admire HER, desire HER". I mentioned in my very first post that I've tried doing that for a couple months and nothing really changed. It's also kind of hard to be doing things like that with little or no reciprocation. Ego tells me "I work hard all day running my construction crew, dealing with customers and actually doing hard physical labor. It sure would be nice is someone said, 'Honey, thanks for working so hard'. Or, gave a foot rub or shoulder rub". I've been laid more recently than I've heard a TY or your neck is sore let me rub it for a minute. However, what you said is very true and I've already started doing some of the things you talked about.
The "contemplative sex" you talked about is going to be a bit weird I think. Given that's it's been awhile since any of these kinds of words have been spoken by either of us I think it could be awkward and giggle filled on her part, but I'm game. All in!
I do send sweet texts, I love you, thinking of you, etc. but I will step up the game.
After she said about having a MFM 3some my wheels sort of started rolling. As I said I'm not sure at this point I'm cool with an actual third M. However, I was thinking of a suction cup dildo. Problem was that if there isn't much happening that often on the sex front how do I go about introducing a suction cup dildo? I like the idea of talking to her about a guy checking her out, or maybe whispering in her ear if that's the style of guys you'd want, or what would you do with him? Maybe after a couple sessions, or whatever you want to call it, bring her home and bring out the third man who will have been hiding in the underwear drawer.

 

[MeekMe]

I keep reading that everything you could possibly do to get her interested has been done and nothing works. You give, she takes, things stay the same. How about telling her exactly how you feel about it?

A conversation like, "Honey, I feel frustrated. I feel like you might be unhappy with me because I shower you with affection, but you don't reciprocate it."

I don't have kids, and my marriage so far is going well because we have conversations like that. If one person is unhappy they should be comfortable enough to explain why, and how to fix the problem. Perhaps she needs to know how it is affecting you? Maybe she doesn't realize that she's hurting you.

I wouldn't suggest telling her you just want to have sex more. I think if she also can work on her affection towards you, sex may come naturally.

 

[swingerjoe]

MeekMe, I had SO many conversations just like that with my wife during the first 16 years of our marriage. Every one of those conversations went nowhere. She understood my frustration, and how her disinterest in sex made me feel.

We attempted to reach a compromise by having sex more often, but it was very clear she was only doing it for my benefit. I began to feel like I was just another one of her household chores, which ruined the entire purpose of having sex in the first place. She simply wasn't interested in sex, and nothing was ever going to change that. At the end of the day, the result of all those endless conversations was that she felt guilty for not satisfying me, and I felt like a sex-craved pervert.

Like the OP, I did everything in my power to boost her sex drive over those years: doing more housework, letting her sleep in, giving her back and foot rubs, complimenting her endlessly, taking her on dates, being extra affectionate outside of the bedroom, abstaining from sex, introducing different sex toys, etc., etc.. NOTHING worked.

The sad fact of the matter is that there isn't much that husbands can do in that situation -- and it is a VERY common situation. Some studies show that as early as ONE year into a new relationship, a woman's sex drive begins to plummet. And the longer the relationship, the lower her sex drive becomes.

This entire thread has been fascinating and thought-provoking, and I plan to use it as the basis of a Lit. story at some point. I just need to devise a creative way to come to a "happy ending."

 

[subwannabe]

MeekMe: Not sure who you are addressing this to since I kind of co-opted onto the original poster's thread. Didn't mean to steal his thread but we do have very similar stories. I wanted him to know that he is not alone in this. If you are talking to me then I've already, "been there done that". My wife consistently says that she is tired all the time (which she is). She feels badly about not being more active and loving toward me. Our love life is actually pretty good when we do do it but I was hoping for the kinkier more active person who I used to date. I think there are a number of things involved but the whole thing kind of reminds me of some advice someone gave to me a long time ago. I was a manager for a well known pizza chain and, even though I was doing OK, the district manager (who was like a father to me) told me once that I was letting the store run me instead of me running it. I realized he was right, fixed the problem, and my store took off and was near the very top of the nationwide list for sales growth. I believe this to be my wife's main problem. She's letting life run her instead of her running it. I try giving her suggestions on how to regain control but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. She's just relaxed into a mode of letting things around her dictate how she lives her life and she lets it wear her down into being tired all the time and it rolls over into our love life. So far everything I have done has at best resulted in a short term uptake, followed by life catching up with her again. She refuses to believe that we can control our own lives, at least to some extent.

 

[MeekMe]

MeekMe, I had SO many conversations just like that with my wife during the first 16 years of our marriage. Every one of those conversations went nowhere. She understood my frustration, and how her disinterest in sex made me feel.

We attempted to reach a compromise by having sex more often, but it was very clear she was only doing it for my benefit. I began to feel like I was just another one of her household chores, which ruined the entire purpose of having sex in the first place. She simply wasn't interested in sex, and nothing was ever going to change that. At the end of the day, the result of all those endless conversations was that she felt guilty for not satisfying me, and I felt like a sex-craved pervert.

Like the OP, I did everything in my power to boost her sex drive over those years: doing more housework, letting her sleep in, giving her back and foot rubs, complimenting her endlessly, taking her on dates, being extra affectionate outside of the bedroom, abstaining from sex, introducing different sex toys, etc., etc.. NOTHING worked.

The sad fact of the matter is that there isn't much that husbands can do in that situation -- and it is a VERY common situation. Some studies show that as early as ONE year into a new relationship, a woman's sex drive begins to plummet. And the longer the relationship, the lower her sex drive becomes.

This entire thread has been fascinating and thought-provoking, and I plan to use it as the basis of a Lit. story at some point. I just need to devise a creative way to come to a "happy ending."

MeekMe: Not sure who you are addressing this to since I kind of co-opted onto the original poster's thread. Didn't mean to steal his thread but we do have very similar stories. I wanted him to know that he is not alone in this. If you are talking to me then I've already, "been there done that". My wife consistently says that she is tired all the time (which she is). She feels badly about not being more active and loving toward me. Our love life is actually pretty good when we do do it but I was hoping for the kinkier more active person who I used to date. I think there are a number of things involved but the whole thing kind of reminds me of some advice someone gave to me a long time ago. I was a manager for a well known pizza chain and, even though I was doing OK, the district manager (who was like a father to me) told me once that I was letting the store run me instead of me running it. I realized he was right, fixed the problem, and my store took off and was near the very top of the nationwide list for sales growth. I believe this to be my wife's main problem. She's letting life run her instead of her running it. I try giving her suggestions on how to regain control but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. She's just relaxed into a mode of letting things around her dictate how she lives her life and she lets it wear her down into being tired all the time and it rolls over into our love life. So far everything I have done has at best resulted in a short term uptake, followed by life catching up with her again. She refuses to believe that we can control our own lives, at least to some extent.

So affection = sex.

I was trying to point out that maybe diving into "we don't have enough sex" was the wrong way to go about it. That maybe the situation was that both parties weren't putting in effort to have a good relationship.

Are your wives kissing or hugging you without you initiating it? Do they send you lovely texts at random?

What I'm saying is, if you put so much time and effort into your relationship to show your affection by more hugs/kisses/gifts/compliments, are they returning those gestures? I for one, don't see a point in shallowly doing nice things for someone because you expect sex in return.

I do nice things for my husband because I love him and want to make him happy. It turn, he feels the same way and neither party is only doing it to have sex.

I think there is a communication error here. I was suggesting talking about being affectionate towards one another for the sake of happiness and well-being, not sex.

My thought process, is that if she also makes an effort towards your happiness, that her spirits may lift and she may actually want more sex. If my husband started doing nice things for me just so I would have sex with him, I wouldn't have sex with him. I do it because I enjoy it and I know he is also getting joy. If you make the conversation all about YOUR sexual needs, of course she would feel bad and you would become just another thing she has to take care of.

This is all just my own opinion, or course.

 

[swingerjoe]

MeekMe, I appreciate you taking the time to give us your perspective, and I don't mean for my responses to sound argumentative in nature. Your point about trading affection for sex is a valid one -- and the source of several arguments my wife and I had during that time.

The problem is that it is a Catch-22. Women constantly claim that if only their husbands showed more affection (or did more housework, or let them sleep longer, etc., etc.), then they would be in the mood for sex more often. But when we husbands do these things, our wives accuse of us only doing them only because we want more sex!

It's a no-win situation. Which is why I truly believe that a woman's libido has very little to do with the amount of affection hubby shows, whether or not he does the dishes, or how much sleep she had the night before. I truly believe the problem is biological in nature.

That said, if a woman is tired and stressed, and hubby is an unaffectionate, lazy bum around the house, she's not going to want to have sex with him regardless of how long they've been together. But all things being equal, if you were to compare two married women that are the same age, with the same type of husband who does the same amount of housework and displays the same level of affection, I guarantee that more often than not, the one who has been married longer will have a lower sex drive.

 

[subwannabe]

I don't think you truly understand that I have tried this, just as you described, without it being shallow. This is not something that just popped up, it has been going on for close to 10 years now and it has reached the point where I admittedly have run out of energy myself to do all these things that you mentioned except on occasion. I did it for long periods and I did it on and off. In the end it wound up just turning into I was doing all this but she was still too tired for sex most of the time, not all of the time. It's actually pretty good when we do do it. I don't think you can truly understand until you have had children yourself. Life isn't as easy as the Dr. Phil show.

There are other things involved to which I haven't discussed. I work my butt off trying to pay down our bills and then have found on numerous occasions that she has gone behind my back and charged up thousands and thousands (probably about $20,000) of dollars on cards I didn't even know about. It's important for her to have this financial part of her life that she keeps secret from me. She feels it's ok because this stuff is in her name only and not mine so it is none of my business and somehow she has managed to keep a good credit score but I do resent her having this life behind my back that she refuses to open up about. I do know that when she was married to her ex they had to file for bankruptcy (actually mostly due to him). I'm pretty positive she's not cheating on me but I have a harder time being in love with someone that has to do this stuff behind my back so it is hard on me to be all lovey dovey, and yes, I have talked to her about it. She refuses to let go of her secret financial life that she does behind my back. Trust is a huge issue for me but it is not a cheating lack of trust.

 

[hangdawg]

I keep reading that everything you could possibly do to get her interested has been done and nothing works. You give, she takes, things stay the same. How about telling her exactly how you feel about it?

A conversation like, "Honey, I feel frustrated. I feel like you might be unhappy with me because I shower you with affection, but you don't reciprocate it."

I don't have kids, and my marriage so far is going well because we have conversations like that. If one person is unhappy they should be comfortable enough to explain why, and how to fix the problem. Perhaps she needs to know how it is affecting you? Maybe she doesn't realize that she's hurting you.

I wouldn't suggest telling her you just want to have sex more. I think if she also can work on her affection towards you, sex may come naturally.

I agree. I have had a conversation or two similar to that. However, as I've pointed out in the last few posts I haven't been showering her with attention. I realize that is not going to get me anywhere so lately I've been doing more and going out of my way more often to show her I love her. I actually got a smile this morning when I kissed her goodbye for the day instead of a "goodbye".
I don't feel like I've been a decent enough man and husband lately to have that conversation. So my plan at this point is to change my behaviour with the hopes that she will follow suit. If not I will be comfortable in my position to have the exact conversation that you described.

 

[hangdawg]

MeekMe: Not sure who you are addressing this to since I kind of co-opted onto the original poster's thread. Didn't mean to steal his thread but we do have very similar stories. I wanted him to know that he is not alone in this. If you are talking to me then I've already, "been there done that". My wife consistently says that she is tired all the time (which she is). She feels badly about not being more active and loving toward me. Our love life is actually pretty good when we do do it but I was hoping for the kinkier more active person who I used to date. I think there are a number of things involved but the whole thing kind of reminds me of some advice someone gave to me a long time ago. I was a manager for a well known pizza chain and, even though I was doing OK, the district manager (who was like a father to me) told me once that I was letting the store run me instead of me running it. I realized he was right, fixed the problem, and my store took off and was near the very top of the nationwide list for sales growth. I believe this to be my wife's main problem. She's letting life run her instead of her running it. I try giving her suggestions on how to regain control but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. She's just relaxed into a mode of letting things around her dictate how she lives her life and she lets it wear her down into being tired all the time and it rolls over into our love life. So far everything I have done has at best resulted in a short term uptake, followed by life catching up with her again. She refuses to believe that we can control our own lives, at least to some extent.

A thought occurred to me while reading your post. When you first start out dating holding hands is exciting, then you progress to kissing and/or making out and that is very exciting. Then comes the first time with this girl you are infused with. But, inevitably at some point the sex kind of gets routine. So you throw something else in there to spice it up whether it be in front of a mirror, different venues around the house or town, making your own porn, etc. But the more you do one particular thing to spice up the sex life the more routine it becomes and then you have to be on to the next "new thing" in order for it to be spicy. You mentioned a short term uptake. Could it be up to us to to be putting out the situations and ideas so that things are spicy instead of just waiting for our wives? I'm thinking of the movie "True Lies". While we aren't US spies, well I can't speak for everyone on this post, who can make the kinds of arrangements he did, what woman wouldn't like to have that tension and intrigue and being forced out of a comfort zone?