Could you vote for Hillary Clinton?

[Homburg]

More good questions.

I'm no political expert, either. But the way I see it, staff needs to be smart and hardworking, efficient and economical. The POTUS needs to be smart and tough enough to make the difficult calls, but mostly he/she needs to inspire. To charm, flatter, and cajole at certain times, and to beg, borrow, or steal at others. I think he/she actually does need to be somewhat awe-inspiring, in order to get people to make sacrifices and hard choices that they otherwise would firmly resist.

No real comment here other than to say that this is an excellent read on what makes a good president, or executive for that matter. Their actual skills are less important than their ideas and attributes.

In this light, Hillary would make an awesome VP or cabinet member, but as a leader? Not so sure.

--------------------------

Maryland? South last I checked, Frederick Douglass and all that. More blue than MN which is an unhealthy kind of purple. Oddly in proximity to Virginia, which is not blue.

Virginia is more blue than most folks think, but it is a weird sort of blue. We frequently vote democrat governors into office, and have had far better luck with dem govs than republican ones. Presidentially, we tend red. Senators and reps go both ways..

And Maryland's proximity to VA is less meaningful, as it borders on the solidly blue NOVA area.

-------------------------

About a quarter of the Maryland boys did sign up for the Gray in the War of Northern Aggression. But I've never heard anyone call them a Southern state. Virginia is becoming more and more blue, and democrats do well in North Carolina at times. But the deep south is very conservative.

Northerners sometimes call Maryland a southern state. Southerners know better

As to democrats and the South, dems used to hold iron sway. They were a different brand of democrat though. Old South dems were more conservative than northern Republicans.

Party identity has become more important than representing your consituents though.

 

[JMohegan]

Farah's perspective on "anything-goes, aberrant sexual behavior, doing-your-own-thing lifestyles, and moral codes" is not mine - obviously - but the mere fact that he is an "uber-conservative" does not mean that WND lies about everything they publish. Every news organization - whether liberal, conservative, uber-either, or allegedly neutral - slants their coverage, and to some degree everything they publish, to coincide with their views, either by including only information supporting their viewpoint(s) or by denigrating/excluding information that doesn't. It is the human condition - whether in debate, politics, or sex - to bolster the arguments one prefers to those one doesn't.

I agree, in general, with your comment that all organizations slant coverage to a certain degree.

However, I do not agree with the characterization of WorldNetDaily as a *news* organization. On that site, the slant simply tilts too far to one side for me to consider it anything other than propaganda.

I lived in East Tennessee for three years now, and on the Georgia/Tennessee border (and interacting with a large number of Tennesseeans and Georgians) for two year before that, I can tell you that I don't recall ever having discussed Gore with a native of either of those states who liked him, including lifelong Democrats. The nicest description of him that I can recall is "the Tennessee tree stump," referring to his wooden delivery and complete lack of charisma.

Is WND ultra-conservative? Yes. Do they tend to point up everything that supports their conservative fundamental Christian viewpoint and ignore anything that doesn't? Yes. The fact remains, however, that at least some discernible portion of the reason that Gore lost Tennessee in 2000 was the publication of information that tied him to interference in criminal investigations, illegal fundraising, and the basic belief of too many Tennesseeans that Gore was not "one of us," and didn't believe what they believe(d).

The wooden delivery hampered his campaign across the country, no doubt.

As for the "not one of us" issue in TN, my understanding is that Gore struggled with that even while serving in Congress. He essentially grew up in DC, after all. I'm sure that did play a part.

 

[WriterDom]

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!
Mayor
As Mayor of the Munchkin City, In the County of the Land of Oz, I welcome you most regally.
Barrister
But we've got to verify it legally, to see
Mayor
To see?
Barrister
If she
Mayor
If she?
Barrister
Is morally, ethic'lly
Father No.1
Spiritually, physically
Father No. 2
Positively, absolutely
Munchkins
Undeniably and reliably Dead
Coroner
As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her.
And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead.
Mayor
Then this is a day of Independence For all the Munchkins and their descendants
Barrister
If any.
Mayor
Yes, let the joyous news be spread The wicked Old Witch at last dead!

 

[JMohegan]

It's just Iowa, man.

What's your reaction to Huckabee's rout?

 

[WriterDom]

I don't know. Obama got the women vote. And killed her among young people. There is no black vote to speak of in Iowa but they'll flock to Obama now in the South. It's not over till the fat lady sings, but a big blow to the Clinton machine.

Huck got the Jesus vote. I don't expect him to do better than third in New Hampshire.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't know. Obama got the women vote. And killed her among young people. There is no black vote to speak of in Iowa but they'll flock to Obama now in the South. It's not over till the fat lady sings, but a big blow to the Clinton machine.

Huck got the Jesus vote. I don't expect him to do better than third in New Hampshire.

I agree with this.

A big blow, yes. Death knell, not yet.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Duplicate post...my bad.

d

 

[Blushing Bottom]

A wolf in sheep's clothing IMHO....

d

 

[midwestyankee]

A few salient points that I've come across in my reading of reactions to the Iowa caucuses.

Obama won nearly 25% of the total vote, including all those who voted in the Republican caucuses, while Huckabee got only 11% of the total vote. There was a huge increase in the number of Democrats (or self-identified Democrats, at least) who turned up for the caucuses. If this carries through to other states, it will be a clear signal that the country wants change in a major way.

Clinton's arguments have mostly been about how she is so well qualified to take over and I think that many people have begun to translate that as "she wants to give us more of the same that we've had for the last 16 years."

The chairman of the Republican Party would not even use Huckabee's name on camera when he was interviewed last night about the caucus results. I think that the Republican establishment took a hard one to the nuts and are going to take a while to catch their breath.

The same could be said for the Democratic establishment, which has been mostly behind Senator Clinton.

Senator Clinton may do better in New Hampshire, but I wouldn't put it past my former neighbors to thumb their collective noses at the establishment much like the Iowans did.

 

[Netzach]

dysfunction

 

[Netzach]

This says to me that the people want Jesse Ventura.
They have spoken, at least somewhat.

Chuck Norris save us. It'll be an interesting four years. at least.

 

[JMohegan]

Obama won nearly 25% of the total vote, including all those who voted in the Republican caucuses, while Huckabee got only 11% of the total vote. There was a huge increase in the number of Democrats (or self-identified Democrats, at least) who turned up for the caucuses. If this carries through to other states, it will be a clear signal that the country wants change in a major way.

A friend of mine has a 25-year old son whose Law Students for Obama group traveled from Chicago to Iowa -- in order to volunteer babysitting services for those who needed it on caucus night. I called this morning to congratulate him. They're just as fired up as they can possibly be.

Per the Post, "Party officials said turnout exceeded 239,000, far above the 124,000 who participated four years ago and eclipsing even the campaigns' most optimistic forecasts." I wonder how much $ was spent per caucusgoer.

 

[midwestyankee]

A friend of mine has a 25-year old son whose Law Students for Obama group traveled from Chicago to Iowa -- in order to volunteer babysitting services for those who needed it on caucus night. I called this morning to congratulate him. They're just as fired up as they can possibly be.

Per the Post, "Party officials said turnout exceeded 239,000, far above the 124,000 who participated four years ago and eclipsing even the campaigns' most optimistic forecasts." I wonder how much $ was spent per caucusgoer.

JM, I'm curious why you raise the question of spending here. Could you elaborate?

 

[JMohegan]

JM, I'm curious why you raise the question of spending here. Could you elaborate?

It just strikes me as a small # of people, for all the time & attention spent on that state.

Media coverage, efforts of the individual campaigns, etc.

Because of the timing, those Iowans have a lot more power in the political process than most Americans.

 

[rakess]

Obama Won Iowa!

YEAH! HERE'S TO NEW HAMPSHIRE! excuse my excitement...although Huckabee is going to give him a good challenge. gosh, it's so nice to have leader who are coherent and articulate.

 

[WriterDom]

I think we need to pass a law that says no more Clintons or Bushes can run for president.

 

[FurryFury]

I think we need to pass a law that says no more Clintons or Bushes can run for president.

I second that motion!

 

[Homburg]

Chuck Norris save us. It'll be an interesting four years. at least.

He endorses Mike Huckabee. Even Chuck Norris will not save us.


We are truly doomed.

 

[Netzach]

He endorses Mike Huckabee. Even Chuck Norris will not save us.


We are truly doomed.

I'm actually referring to a Huckabee ad. Because the issue of illegal immigration, wherever you stand on it, is sooooo funny.

 

[SirLeo]

Establishment Things

Bill Clinton bucked the establsihment as did Jimmy Carter. On the Dem side, anything is possible. Too bad Bill Richardson couldn't get more momentum, he at least has a modicum of integrity, is fairly genuine, is good on the environment and doesn't lean too far to the left. Out of everyone running, Hillary is the only one I would vote for based on her positions on the issues and I think she understands politics very well and would be a good compromiser. However, she is not my ideal president.

On the Republican side, the problem is that whomever the evangelicals nominate will likely be rejected by the majority in the general election. There's no Ronald Reagan among them (actually Huckabee is pretty close) and most people are not going to vote for an evangelical minister.

I really think we need a 3 party system to force compromise.

Its really wide open until super Tue. My guess is that it will be Hillary and ???? who knows from the Reps after that.

 

[tommynova2001]

Per the Post, "Party officials said turnout exceeded 239,000, far above the 124,000 who participated four years ago and eclipsing even the campaigns' most optimistic forecasts." I wonder how much $ was spent per caucusgoer.

I read somewhere $200 per vote, If Hillary gave me $200 I'd register democrat instead of libertarian and vote for her in the primary.

Come to think of it I might do that for free.

She's as qualified as Imelda Marcos, but without the cute shoes.

The audacity of nepotism. Since when does being married to a guy make a woman qualified, what ever happened to earning your own way style feminism.

 

[Homburg]

I'm actually referring to a Huckabee ad. Because the issue of illegal immigration, wherever you stand on it, is sooooo funny.

D'oh, sorry. Gamer moment. I'm used to seeing people say "Chuck Norris save us" in normal conversation. Well, as normal as gamers get

 

[midwestyankee]

It just strikes me as a small # of people, for all the time & attention spent on that state.

Media coverage, efforts of the individual campaigns, etc.

Because of the timing, those Iowans have a lot more power in the political process than most Americans.

Oh, you're absolutely right. The people of Iowa have developed greatly outsized influence as a result of intensive media coverage of their caucuses. This began after the 1976 campaign when Jimmy Carter rode a second-place finish in Iowa into a successful primary season. Before that nearly no one had paid much attention to Iowa's caucuses because the presidential preference poll that was included in the caucuses was a minor item on the agenda.

No more. However, I can see the mainstream media downplaying the value of the Iowa caucuses to some extent based on the success of Huckabee this time. He is simply too darned religious for the mainstreamers in the media (and too much of an anti-establishmentarian as well). On the other hand, if Obama continues to do well that may serve to validate the decisions made by Iowa caucus goers.

Nobody said it wouldn't be interesting.

 

[Marquis]

If anything, I think Iowa shows us that it still is very much anyone's game. It's unbelievable how much change occurs between early polling and election day. Not nearly so much of a foregone conclusion as me and probably many others make the mistake of inferring.

This is going to be an exciting year.

 

[magdelena69]

ok, even though...

I tend to resent any political affiliation, I tend to be more conservative. I would not vote for Ms. Clinton in any way, however, simply because of the whole Lewinsky thing. I go out of my way to verify that I do not f with any marriages, simply because I cannot stand a liar. And I do not believe anyone who puts up with betrayal in their personal lives can possibly be expected to have high moral values in a position of authority and fulfill the promises they have made to the public. And either Mr. Clinton was lying (which became very evident very soon) or she was, publically or privately. And I could not, nor would not, vote for a woman who was unable to candidly discuss her private lies and issues, no matter how much I want to prove that a female is equally capable of a "job" that has always been held by men. She is just not the right person for a political office, especially one that should be held in such high esteem. Not sure how I feel about Huckabee and Obama either, for the record...