Delving the Psyche of Sadists

[le Dragon Noir]

Nods,

II do not battle a basic need inside me as Netzach, Fanscico, or AA has describe.

lucky, inquisitive, impatient bastard

 

[RJMasters]

Different people handle things different ways. The closest thing i can give you is a trip to the zoo. i wish this on no one, but animals that don't adapt well to cages do one of two things:

• Go stark, raving mad.
• Go catatonic, no pun intended.

In the former, they endanger themselves, others in the same cage, and their handlers. The end result isn't pretty. They usually get put down for "humane" reasons.

In the latter, the light goes out in the animal's eyes. It breaks my heart to see one not bat an eye when an instinctual stimulus doesn't provoke a natural response. The soul/mind has left the body to die.

When I look at you AA, I see neither of these two.

You certainly do not appear to be going stark, raving mad, nor do you strike me as the type of fellow who is in a catatonic state.

You more remind me of a hurricane, where in the eye of the storm you are collected and controlled, even though all around is a raging storm. Or maybe the reverse of that.

Thank you for making this post though. The build-up and control example was pretty cool.

And I am sorry for being inquisitive, impatient bastard. They will prolly put that on my gravestone or something.

As to the "why" I guess I will have to agree with you about what's really important about that. As I mentioned, I may never know the why, and maybe I am not suppose to know. If I am going to find out the "why" I guess I will have to take a deeper more honest look at my self. I know when I go back and re-read my original post, there seems to be something missing. When I learned of this on-going struggle and control, that was new to me, as I have not experienced that. I only experience the desire when the rev is on. This maybe due to the fact, much of my inner needs are meet through Dominance/submission. Since Dominance is about control, it keeps me balanced enough and I have no need to struggle, but then a willing partner comes along, it opens up the chance to let it all come out.

hmmmm Off to think about this some more...thank you for the post AA.

Rich

 

[Pure]

If there an inborn instincts or urges, they are not invariably social.One SIDE [eros] of the sex drive may be for 'union' as relationship, as implied by Dragon; the other side (thanatos) has been called agressive or destructive (as in armies raping the conquered).

My impression is that 'destructive' leanings are not much acknowledged, though I did see one poster refer to coming to the 'edge of criminality' (Betticus? Angelic?).

To complete the thought: Besides 'relationship enhancing sadism', as described by a few here, there is a 'classic sadism' with a destructive essence.

My 2 cents.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I've been reading this thread from its inception, nodding at some responses, nodding vigorously at others, and shaking my head in puzzlement at a few, later going back and nodding slowly as the meanings became clear - or clearer, at least. I'm finally ready to put in my $.02, for what it's worth - much less than when I was younger , but still my $.02.

When I was younger, my sadistic tendencies and desires and actions frightened me, every-Sunday churchgoer that I was from the time of rational thought until my early twenties. I had been taught, and accepted, that to hurt someone else for any reason was wrong - bad - evil. Even when, at 14, my first consensual sensual spankee and I did what we did, I felt a great deal of guilt, even though I knew that for some reason she enjoyed it and indeed craved it. We even discussed the "wrongness" of it several times, each time agreeing to not do it any more - yet within a couple of days of each agreement, there she was lying across my thighs, bottom thrust upward, waiting eagerly for my hand to fall.

In my mid-twenties, as I researched and found out more about the BDSM culture, I still had guilt about what I liked and wanted to do. I'd learned that others did it - a lot of them! - but nothing I read or heard, other than from active members of the community, gave any indication that it was not a "wrong" thing to want or to do. Even a substantial minority of the members of the community considered what we do a "perversion." Still, those desires were there, and though I felt guilty about it, I found enough partners willing and even eager to cooperate with them.

In my thirties, I finally got enough confidence in myself to look at my desires "from the outside," so to speak, and found that I could accept the concept that those desires (needs) weren't evil or wrong or even perverted, as long as the person with whom I indulged them had the mirror image of them, and as long as I didn't do lasting damage (broken bones, visible scarring, organ damage, etc.).

This was, to me, amazingly freeing. I found that once I had accepted my needs and desires as natural to me, and acceptable to certain other persons - my potential partners - that my enjoyment multiplied by orders of magnitude. I could focus on creating a "just right" pain for each moment of a session with my partner. I could sense, more than ever before, what was right for her, and for me, in a given situation. I could appreciate - academically, at least - what she was feeling, and that understanding fed into my pleasure at providing her with the pain/pleasure that she needed and wanted.

When I realized how much better I felt about what I wanted, needed; what I was doing... I gave up the guilt. I gave up the feelings of "wrongness." I gave up the pain that those early teachings had built in me, and gloried in the freedom of my new knowledge. Because of my profession, I wasn't able to be open about the nature of my sexuality, but soon after I retired from teaching, I stopped hiding it. That's not to say I go around with a button on my chest that says, "Sensual Sadist," but on the rare occasion that someone of the feminine persuasion expresses interest in me, I make it clear that I have no interest in a vanilla relationship, other than for friendship purposes - and I do have a number of very good vanilla friends, most of whom are aware of my 'kink' - and leave it to her to decide if she's interested in exploring my part of the sexual world. If so, great. If not, nothing lost. I'm not going to waste time (at my age, there's not much time left to waste ) pretending to be other than what or who I am.

Why am I a sadist? I have no earthly idea. I've thought about it many, many, many hours in the forty years since I learned that little thrills my soul more than an upturned female bottom waiting for my hand, and have come to no satisfactory conclusions. At this point, I don't really care all that much why I am the way I am. I care about being who I am.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

I'm finally ready to put in my $.02 ... I care about being who I am.

Smiled while i read your post ... and nodded along with you, save one portion. i didn't glory, i simply said "fuck this. i like it and i'm not tolerating barbed wire wrapped around the axle on the way to where i want to go."

 

[RJMasters]

I've been reading this thread from its inception, nodding at some responses, nodding vigorously at others, and shaking my head in puzzlement at a few, later going back and nodding slowly as the meanings became clear - or clearer, at least. I'm finally ready to put in my $.02, for what it's worth - much less than when I was younger , but still my $.02.

When I was younger, my sadistic tendencies and desires and actions frightened me, every-Sunday churchgoer that I was from the time of rational thought until my early twenties. I had been taught, and accepted, that to hurt someone else for any reason was wrong - bad - evil. Even when, at 14, my first consensual sensual spankee and I did what we did, I felt a great deal of guilt, even though I knew that for some reason she enjoyed it and indeed craved it. We even discussed the "wrongness" of it several times, each time agreeing to not do it any more - yet within a couple of days of each agreement, there she was lying across my thighs, bottom thrust upward, waiting eagerly for my hand to fall.

In my mid-twenties, as I researched and found out more about the BDSM culture, I still had guilt about what I liked and wanted to do. I'd learned that others did it - a lot of them! - but nothing I read or heard, other than from active members of the community, gave any indication that it was not a "wrong" thing to want or to do. Even a substantial minority of the members of the community considered what we do a "perversion." Still, those desires were there, and though I felt guilty about it, I found enough partners willing and even eager to cooperate with them.

In my thirties, I finally got enough confidence in myself to look at my desires "from the outside," so to speak, and found that I could accept the concept that those desires (needs) weren't evil or wrong or even perverted, as long as the person with whom I indulged them had the mirror image of them, and as long as I didn't do lasting damage (broken bones, visible scarring, organ damage, etc.).

This was, to me, amazingly freeing. I found that once I had accepted my needs and desires as natural to me, and acceptable to certain other persons - my potential partners - that my enjoyment multiplied by orders of magnitude. I could focus on creating a "just right" pain for each moment of a session with my partner. I could sense, more than ever before, what was right for her, and for me, in a given situation. I could appreciate - academically, at least - what she was feeling, and that understanding fed into my pleasure at providing her with the pain/pleasure that she needed and wanted.

When I realized how much better I felt about what I wanted, needed; what I was doing... I gave up the guilt. I gave up the feelings of "wrongness." I gave up the pain that those early teachings had built in me, and gloried in the freedom of my new knowledge. Because of my profession, I wasn't able to be open about the nature of my sexuality, but soon after I retired from teaching, I stopped hiding it. That's not to say I go around with a button on my chest that says, "Sensual Sadist," but on the rare occasion that someone of the feminine persuasion expresses interest in me, I make it clear that I have no interest in a vanilla relationship, other than for friendship purposes - and I do have a number of very good vanilla friends, most of whom are aware of my 'kink' - and leave it to her to decide if she's interested in exploring my part of the sexual world. If so, great. If not, nothing lost. I'm not going to waste time (at my age, there's not much time left to waste ) pretending to be other than what or who I am.

Why am I a sadist? I have no earthly idea. I've thought about it many, many, many hours in the forty years since I learned that little thrills my soul more than an upturned female bottom waiting for my hand, and have come to no satisfactory conclusions. At this point, I don't really care all that much why I am the way I am. I care about being who I am.

Thank you Winston

I like you, for years the "churchgoer" was taught not only hurting others was wrong, but being a dominating person was wrong.

For many years I dealt with shame and holding down anger when it came to my dominant side, and then as related in another thread, one day I said fuck this I am not going to hide any more. I hated being angry and always feeling I had to watch my step in everything I said and did. So I made sorta of the same step in accepting my dominance as you and AA did towards sadism.

However, with these sadist tendencies I have, I have not fully explored them, I am still learning about them in me. Trying to understand why.

I am beginning to learn that the "why" might not be all that important. I mean why do I like orange marmlade jam? Hell I don't know, it taste good and I just like it. So maybe the real goal here is more about coming to grips with it. I know some of the things I get out of it, or have gotten out of it. I have seen the results in the few D/s relationships I have had and partially in my marriage, and expressed them the best I could in my orignal post.

What I find comforting is that those I have a high regard for and respect for as people here on lit, have shared their struggles and their experiences, and I find that I am in good company. I am not alone in some of the feelings I have both good and bad.

Thank you for sharing. It certainly meant more than .02 cents worth to me.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

I mean why do I like orange marmlade jam?

Different strokes.

 

[Guest]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by RJMasters
I mean why do I like orange marmlade jam?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm Sheer Perversion?????

 

[Guest]

The truth is..For me at least.. That it cycles. It builds up over time.
Till it hits a point where my control starts to get a bit tenuous.
(and yes, I'm quite aware of the particular psychological quagmire that I just admitted to)
To be honest, I have walked away from subs..Because someone was going to get hurt.
And I was going to enjoy it. A bit too much.

I can sublimate it into other activities..Of course some of those have come pretty close to getting me killed over the years. Especially those involving cars and motorcycles.
Or I can walk away and wait.
Which has it's own side effects.
I didn't sleep much last night because of it.
I may not sleep much tonight.
*shrug*
Such...is life.

*LOL*
There seems to be a tendancy with folks to describe the "animal" as if it was a seperate part. Something they beat down.
Nah..The animal is part and parcel of what I am.
I just try to keep the worst of it's instincts at bay..This makes me more or less socially acceptable...Generally.

But there is a part of me that always remembers..
That pain CAN be an art.
And that blood...Blood tastes good.

 

[RJMasters]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by RJMasters
I mean why do I like orange marmlade jam?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm Sheer Perversion?????

Had to think about it....and then busted out laughing...ty EKVITKAR.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Good stuff.

I for one, don't really want to accept what it is that I do. The shame and guilt are too important to me, too integral to the intensity of my enjoyment. That's why I always say keep sex evil. and why I always attempt to probe for the most negative possible interpretations and meanings.

 

[RJMasters]

The truth is..For me at least.. That it cycles. It builds up over time.
Till it hits a point where my control starts to get a bit tenuous.
(and yes, I'm quite aware of the particular psychological quagmire that I just admitted to)
To be honest, I have walked away from subs..Because someone was going to get hurt.
And I was going to enjoy it. A bit too much.

I can sublimate it into other activities..Of course some of those have come pretty close to getting me killed over the years. Especially those involving cars and motorcycles.
Or I can walk away and wait.
Which has it's own side effects.
I didn't sleep much last night because of it.
I may not sleep much tonight.
*shrug*
Such...is life.

*LOL*
There seems to be a tendancy with folks to describe the "animal" as if it was a seperate part. Something they beat down.
Nah..The animal is part and parcel of what I am.
I just try to keep the worst of it's instincts at bay..This makes me more or less socially acceptable...Generally.

But there is a part of me that always remembers..
That pain CAN be an art.
And that blood...Blood tastes good.

You know its interesting you bring out how you sublimate it into other activities which involve feeling personal risk. Strapping your self onto the back of a bull is probably not the safest of activities in hind sight. But dang, it sure was fun. Of course the saying is true especially since we are discussing sadism...

Its all fun and games till someone get thier eye poked out....

...back to the the risk thing...it is interesting to note, that some have eluded to the need of this "Risk" element where others have not. Others have stated their liking of inflicting pain, but within a stated limit of safety and control.

I wonder if the difference is that one might be a Dominant/Sadist, where as the one who need that real element of risk is more of a Sadist/Dominant. Of course the leading descriptive designates the controlling aspect of the persons motivations and attitudes.

Although I would tend to put me in the Dominant/Sadist camp generally speaking...I think I like to sneak over to the Sadist/Dominance camp and enjoy the smores.

Anyone else have thought about the risk taking and why its important to some and not as important to others?

 

[Wednesday'sRose]

And that blood...Blood tastes good.

Originally posted by RJMasters
I think I like to sneak over to the Sadist/Dominance camp and enjoy the smores.

Mmmmm.....blood.....and smores. Yum!



Damn it, now I really need a masochist. Right now!!

Hmm, wonder if I could make a sign to carry on the street: "In search of masochist for beating"?

 

[Wednesday'sRose]

Another sign idea:

"Will beat for food"

or maybe an ad in the Wanted section of the newspaper. Hmm....

 

[Guest]

Good stuff.

I for one, don't really want to accept what it is that I do. The shame and guilt are too important to me, too integral to the intensity of my enjoyment. That's why I always say keep sex evil. and why I always attempt to probe for the most negative possible interpretations and meanings.

"keep sex evil" and "accept what I do"

*grin* Nah Hommes... I am right happy being quite evil.. I accept it..Doesn't really bother me.
The only reason I walk away, is that if you break your toys, you can't play with them anymore.

Mmmmm.....blood.....and smores. Yum!

Yeah and don't forget the Scotch....

Damn it, now I really need a masochist. Right now!!!

DAMN!! Me Too!!!!

You know its interesting you bring out how you sublimate it into other activities which involve feeling personal risk. Strapping your self onto the back of a bull is probably not the safest of activities in hind sight. But dang, it sure was fun. Of course the saying is true especially since we are discussing sadism...

Yeah ..But damn it's hard on the balls...I prefer a nice windy road and a car that is meant to be driven in really stupid self destructive ways *grin*

Also I prefer to think of myself as a Master/Dom..with Sadistic tendancies.

 

[Pure]

Sir Winston said,

I could accept the concept that those desires (needs) weren't evil or wrong or even perverted, as long as the person with whom I indulged them had the mirror image of them, and as long as I didn't do lasting damage (broken bones, visible scarring, organ damage, etc.).

Of course a 'realization' can have great impact and/or be 'freeing' without its being true, i.e., GWB's realization, at age 40 that Jesus was his personal savior, whose blood washes away all sin.

I understand why some sadists talk in terms of mirror image; theyre the same ones who speak of reciprocity, and (often) control/rule by the sub.

As I understand the 'classic sadist', a mirror image is the last thing he or she would want. (I assume what's meant is something like "I want to spank" mirrored--as it were-- in "I want to be spanked."

If I may use an analogy. If you glory in *seduction*, the LAST person you want to run into is someone *eager* to be seduced.

 

[RJMasters]

Sir Winston said,

I could accept the concept that those desires (needs) weren't evil or wrong or even perverted, as long as the person with whom I indulged them had the mirror image of them, and as long as I didn't do lasting damage (broken bones, visible scarring, organ damage, etc.).

Of course a 'realization' can have great impact and/or be 'freeing' without its being true, i.e., GWB's realization, at age 40 that Jesus was his personal savior, whose blood washes away all sin.

I understand why some sadists talk in terms of mirror image; theyre the same ones who speak of reciprocity, and (often) control/rule by the sub.

As I understand the 'classic sadist', a mirror image is the last thing he or she would want. (I assume what's meant is something like "I want to spank" mirrored--as it were-- in "I want to be spanked."

If I may use an analogy. If you glory in *seduction*, the LAST person you want to run into is someone *eager* to be seduced.

I want to make sure I understand what you are saying Pure...so please correct me if my simple translation of what you said is wrong.

I think you said...

If real sadism(Classic-Sadism) is based on hurting another person, then a willing party to be hurt, negates the essence of sadism because it then become consentual. So no matter how vile or extreme, as long as the party receiving the pain agrees to it, or continues to desire it, then it is not an act of sadism.

Which would then mean, only after the person says stop, or uses a safeword to stop the scene, if the person continued or increased the pain, then that would be an act of sadism, but would also be considered abuse.

If a person operated within SSC, and they take part in sadistic activities, then that does not make them sadists.

Is this what your saying?

Not agreeing, I am just trying to restate so I make sure I understand what your saying.

 

[Pure]

it's pretty late, so let me just say that the term 'real sadism' is not mine, but yours, RJ, and I'm not trying to evaluate people's or couple's chosen 'lifestyle.'

there is 'classic' music, and there is jazz; the labels don't connote value.

 

[RJMasters]

it's pretty late, so let me just say that the term 'real sadism' is not mine, but yours, RJ, and I'm not trying to evaluate people's or couple's chosen 'lifestyle.'

there is 'classic' music, and there is jazz; the labels don't connote value.

Ok no problem, so I got it wrong...

Your saying that there are different types or levels of sadism....none have more value over the other, they are what they are.

I was honestly asking...or trying to restate what you said. I am glad you came back and made the correct distinction.

I guess I'll go back and read what you said and look at it that way...

ah fuck-it....I just wanna hear someone yell in pain....especially if they are covered in Orange marmalade jam.

 

[dolf]

ah fuck-it....I just wanna hear someone yell in pain....especially if they are covered in Orange marmalade jam.

*opens a jar and skips back to the torment thread*
xx

 

[RJMasters]

*opens a jar and skips back to the torment thread*
xx

3 things:

I don't do vaudeville

I would definately ruin your fun

"Reads from the handy-dandy reference book of sadistic Doms...and I quote.."Never under any circumstances follow a woman who skips and carries an open jar or marmalade jam, as it is always...always...a trap!"

(besides torrmenting from a far off thread makes me feel powerful)

 

[dolf]

3 things:

I don't do vaudeville

I would definately ruin your fun

"Reads from the handy-dandy reference book of sadistic Doms...and I quote.."Never under any circumstances follow a woman who skips and carries an open jar or marmalade jam, as it is always...always...a trap!"

(besides torrmenting from a far off thread makes me feel powerful)

 

[rosco rathbone]

"*grin* Nah Hommes... I am right happy being quite evil.. I accept it..Doesn't really bother me.

I call Barney Badass on you!! LMAO

 

[AngelicAssassin]

I call Barney Badass on you!! LMAO

We're not even going there "self appointed captain of the bitchy warrior doms."

First rule of the "super secret eye fight club" ... don't "meow" the password ... rofl

 

[rosco rathbone]

We're not even going there "self appointed captain of the bitchy warrior doms."

First rule of the "super secret eye fight club" ... don't "meow" the password ... rofl

I've been getting considerable mileage out of other peoples' lines lately....