Do you think submission is a gift?

[Ginlover]

Hahaha love it.

I’m going to ask a related question or two...

Is accepting a marriage proposal a gift of yourself to the proposer?

Is becoming a step parent a gift?

Is inviting a friend (in a Covid safe way) over for a home cooked meal a gift?

If you agree to go on a date with your significant other are you giving them a gift — the gift of your presence?

Is agreeing to meet a friend for a walk a gift?

My personal view is if you think the above are all gifts then submission is a gift.

 

[JadedSwitch]

I think it’s called by different names, but in my opinion it’s a gift. Acknowledging that doesn’t make it lovey dovey soft and sweet, it just acknowledges the value of the exchange.

As a switch, when I decide to submit to someone it is not something I give everyone. It’s a choice. It takes an incredible amount of strength to hand over control in whatever medium and to whatever degree one’s kink requires.

When I am Dom, part of the attraction and the high, for me, is the level of trust embodied in someone handing over that control, in knowing I am the one wielding it to guide and build them up.

submission, by any name, is a gift because true submission can’t be taken.

 

[Bashful_Flower218]

Yes, I think it's a true gift. Especially when you trust the right person and allow yourself to be free. I just learned a year and a half ago that I am submissive and I'm discovering a lot about myself that I never knew years ago.

 

[PaxNurgle]

If it's an act of love, and if you consider love of your partner to be a gift, then yes.

 

[cookiecat]

Well geeze, guys. I haven't visited this thread in a while. What thoughtful replies.

I still struggle with the idea my submission is a gift. Like it's a sweater I wrap up and give to someone because I think they'll like it.

I think, though, I'm getting hung up on the words. Or the analogy of the sweater. Clearly, it's more than that. Or maybe not, if I'm giving the sweater with love, right?

Anyways. I appreciate the insight. It's been helpful.

 

[KimGordon67]

Well geeze, guys. I haven't visited this thread in a while. What thoughtful replies.

I still struggle with the idea my submission is a gift. Like it's a sweater I wrap up and give to someone because I think they'll like it.

I think, though, I'm getting hung up on the words. Or the analogy of the sweater. Clearly, it's more than that. Or maybe not, if I'm giving the sweater with love, right?

Anyways. I appreciate the insight. It's been helpful.

Oh, this might be why I think the 'gift' analogy doesn't work. When you give someone a gift, you (usually) don't have that thing any more yourself. Like, you buy the sweater and you have it, but then you wrap it and give it to someone, and it's no longer yours.
If I'm submitting to someone, it's an ongoing act, and it doesn't 'leave' me, if that makes sense. Also, I'm generally doing it because it pleases me as much as because it pleases them ... in fact, pleasing me is probably the primary point of the exercise, otherwise I don't think I'd bother.

 

[wallstreetguy]

Simple answer: Yes, absolutely.

 

[AnnyMouse28]

I'm generally doing it because it pleases me as much as because it pleases them ... in fact, pleasing me is probably the primary point of the exercise, otherwise I don't think I'd bother.

The same could be said about giving someone a material gift. If a buy something special for my partner and give it to them, I am doing it because it is something that brings me joy to do so.

 

[Sircharles252]

Submission is of course as much of a gift as Domination is a responsibility

 

[cascadiabound]

I think that any human endeavor where you offer your vulnerability to another person is a gift.

Submission and dominance can be among the most vulnerable of human relations, and involve removing masks and trusting another person (or persons) with your deepest needs, your emotional safety, and often, your physical safety.

So yes, submission, given in honesty and good faith, is a gift — and the same is true of dominance.

As usual, you are quite articulate, DGE. Maybe the language of gift which is so often bantered about is short hand for that deliberate two way vulnerability. I hope so.

I too have found the language of "gift" to be problematic - mainly, as others have said, that gifts are generally irrevocable. I think perhaps I might say that the interpersonal dynamic between two people, or between me and my dom feels like a gift to me - some might say a "blessing" - but I mean that in the context of the totality of the relationship. I would say that for instance that one of the gifts or blessings of my marriage is the extended family that I get to be related to. In the context of my sub/ dom relationship, we regularly express gratitude for the gift of each others' time - time is a limited commodity and how and with whom I spend it is a gift. period.

I totally get this. I never think my submission is something that someone will 'find within me' - I always refer to d/s stuff (and in fact all sex) as a dynamic that is created by two(+) people, and is always different because of that. So my submission is created in that dynamic - it's not something I just get out of the bedside drawer at the right moment, like a vibrator. No one can just 'find' it and 'unwrap' it - they have to be involved in the creation of it, or it's just not there.

Of course, that's just me.

I do, however, think 'Hallmark version d/s' may be my favourite thing of today. It totally encompasses so much.

this makes a lot of sense to me. The d/s dynamic is one that is created between two people who have created trust together to explore d/s stuff together AND real life too. I like the phrase here = "my submission is created in that dynamic"
My submission is a result of the dynamic and is shaped and changed by the person with whom I share that part of myself with.

 

[77fbird400]

Oh, this might be why I think the 'gift' analogy doesn't work. When you give someone a gift, you (usually) don't have that thing any more yourself. Like, you buy the sweater and you have it, but then you wrap it and give it to someone, and it's no longer yours.
If I'm submitting to someone, it's an ongoing act, and it doesn't 'leave' me, if that makes sense. Also, I'm generally doing it because it pleases me as much as because it pleases them ... in fact, pleasing me is probably the primary point of the exercise, otherwise I don't think I'd bother.

I was thinking that if you proverbially give someone your love or respect, it also doesn't run out or "leave" the giver. If love is not given then what would one call it when you love someone?

So here is a twist on the original question. Is giving someone your love and respect similar to giving someone your submission?

Also another twist, as a Dom(me), do you give someone your dominance?

 

[KimGordon67]

I was thinking that if you proverbially give someone your love or respect, it also doesn't run out or "leave" the giver. If love is not given then what would one call it when you love someone?

So here is a twist on the original question. Is giving someone your love and respect similar to giving someone your submission?

Also another twist, as a Dom(me), do you give someone your dominance?

I think when people say that submission is a 'gift', they don't really mean that in the same way as when you give someone your love. The whole 'submission as gift' trope is quite specific. Hence why no one ever say 'dominance is a gift'. There's this notion that the sub is doing all the giving and the dom is giving all the taking. That's partly why I find the whole 'submission as gift' thing problematic. It's wound up with a whole lot of other bdsm tropes that become quite formulaic, even if their initial basis has some value.

 

[IrisAlthea]

There's this notion that the sub is doing all the giving and the dom is giving all the taking. That's partly why I find the whole 'submission as gift' thing problematic. It's wound up with a whole lot of other bdsm tropes that become quite formulaic, even if their initial basis has some value.

Yup.

To put something in a box and tie a ribbon around it is a great way to make it look tidy and nice.
I think the gift thing is a way to do just that.

 

[Mei5ter]

I think when people say that submission is a 'gift', they don't really mean that in the same way as when you give someone your love. The whole 'submission as gift' trope is quite specific. Hence why no one ever say 'dominance is a gift'. There's this notion that the sub is doing all the giving and the dom is giving all the taking. That's partly why I find the whole 'submission as gift' thing problematic. It's wound up with a whole lot of other bdsm tropes that become quite formulaic, even if their initial basis has some value.

Doesn't it depend on the context in which the gift is presented?

I'm interested that most people have answered this question in terms of gift giving, and are thinking about the motivation and feelings of the giver and recipient. But gifts are often exchanged too, and I find it easier to understand submission as something that A gives B, while being confident that B will reciprocate with a comparable gift to A. So more like exchanging Christmas gifts, where if B gives A a crap gift or no gift at all, A won't give B anything in future?

 

[KimGordon67]

Doesn't it depend on the context in which the gift is presented?

I'm interested that most people have answered this question in terms of gift giving, and are thinking about the motivation and feelings of the giver and recipient. But gifts are often exchanged too, and I find it easier to understand submission as something that A gives B, while being confident that B will reciprocate with a comparable gift to A. So more like exchanging Christmas gifts, where if B gives A a crap gift or no gift at all, A won't give B anything in future?

But 'exchange' isn't seldom how the 'submission is a gift' trope is used. More commonly, it comes across as resulting in some sort of debt on the part of the dom, like 'I've given you my submission, and now it's entirely your job to take care of that, while I don't have to think about your needs at all, because of the lovely gift I've given you that you must treasure appropriately'. Which tends to remove all responsibility from the sub, because they've 'given the gift' and their part has been played.

I'm entirely and only talking about the trope here, not the actual reality of d/s relations.

 

[Master_Doctor]

I responded to this thread some time ago. Today, I read the best reply Ive ever heard. So I will post the link here because I want the person to get credit for the writing.

https://fetlife.com/users/5326622/posts/6690983

If people cant get to the post, let me know and ill copy and past the entire thing while giving the writer proper credit

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Submission is of course as much of a gift as Domination is a responsibility

This.

 

[Primalex]

Taking responsibility is a sign of maturity, not sexual preference.

 

[Justplatonic]

IMHO, the word gift is too tangible, finite, it implies a conditional reply like a gift in return. Or like for like, i.e. here's my gift of submission, therefore the Domme is expected to facilitate in return. I feel unconditional submission is a relinquishment of your own control, to the Domme you trust/love.

That way, the Domme is free to proceed as she see's fit (which IMHO is far more tantalizing/interesting/exciting). She doesn't always have to facilitate you (your needs), as she could choose to either moderate, or task you in her own ways instead.

 

[BadAmy]

I think of my submission as a need. a deep seated primal need, like a thirst craving to be quenched.

He may see it as a gift. I'm okay with that.

I need to do it. But only for the right guy. And he needs to hold up his end of the bargain, too.
I want to submit....He wants my submission.
When those two thoughts come together, it's magic.

 

[Master_Doctor]

I think of my submission as a need. a deep seated primal need, like a thirst craving to be quenched.

He may see it as a gift. I'm okay with that.

I need to do it. But only for the right guy. And he needs to hold up his end of the bargain, too.
I want to submit....He wants my submission.
When those two thoughts come together, it's magic.

I would agree with you. My Dominance is also a need. Once I realized I was a Dominant so very many years ago, I also realized that I couldnt date vanilla anymore. Because I would end up subconsciously dominating them no matter how hard I tried to bury it. SO I decided I had to be completely open and honest with anyone I dated...

Ive always explained that naturally Dominant and submissive people are yin and Yang to each other. They need their polar opposite in order to be fulfilled as people. So Ive always said that if you insist on saying submission is a gift... then it is no more or less a gift than Dominance. The one think I loved most about my friend Cute Me's writing I linked below was that a gift by definition is something that is given freely without expectation of anything back. Ive never known a submissive to do so with out an expectation. At the very least she expects to be treated with respect and kept safe. A gift is also something that you are given freely and not something you do anything to earn. Every sub ive ever heard go on and on about their submission being a gift.... always made it evident that a Dom would have to go through hoops to be able to EARN their submission. Well those two concepts are not compatible.

 

[Justplatonic]

I think of my submission as a need. a deep seated primal need, like a thirst craving to be quenched.

He may see it as a gift. I'm okay with that.

I need to do it. But only for the right guy. And he needs to hold up his end of the bargain, too.
I want to submit....He wants my submission.
When those two thoughts come together, it's magic.

I respect your POV, especially when you put it like that...

 

[Justplatonic]

I would agree with you. My Dominance is also a need. Once I realized I was a Dominant so very many years ago, I also realized that I couldnt date vanilla anymore. Because I would end up subconsciously dominating them no matter how hard I tried to bury it. SO I decided I had to be completely open and honest with anyone I dated...

Ive always explained that naturally Dominant and submissive people are yin and Yang to each other. They need their polar opposite in order to be fulfilled as people. So Ive always said that if you insist on saying submission is a gift... then it is no more or less a gift than Dominance. The one think I loved most about my friend Cute Me's writing I linked below was that a gift by definition is something that is given freely without expectation of anything back. Ive never known a submissive to do so with out an expectation. At the very least she expects to be treated with respect and kept safe. A gift is also something that you are given freely and not something you do anything to earn. Every sub ive ever heard go on and on about their submission being a gift.... always made it evident that a Dom would have to go through hoops to be able to EARN their submission. Well those two concepts are not compatible.

 

[cookiecat]

I responded to this thread some time ago. Today, I read the best reply Ive ever heard. So I will post the link here because I want the person to get credit for the writing.

https://fetlife.com/users/5326622/posts/6690983

If people cant get to the post, let me know and ill copy and past the entire thing while giving the writer proper credit

This is a great link, MD - thanks.

The author sums up a lot of the feelings I've had about the submission as a gift.

She writes that thinking about submission as this thing, this tidy item wrapped neatly I then hand to a Dominant negates the work that goes into establishing then sustaining a D/s relationship.

Kim mentions this - how, in some cases, (and, I think, in the cliched way this statement is thrown around) handing over the gift of submission absolves a sub of anything more than the act of handing it over.

MD, you said it - and it's spot on - how so many subs say their submission must be earned. Which is fine. I get that. I think someone's domination must be earned as well. But I can't turn around and say here's the gift you earned.

I've been thing A LOT about expectations lately. Letting go of expectations. I keep thinking if I don't have any, I can't be disappointed. Should I reframe it and say with no expectations, I might find unexpected joy?! That seems to be another topic!!

Generally, I give a gift because I want to see that person happy. It's a thank you for being in my life. But yeah, sometimes I hope for a certain response. And I'm disappointed when I don't get that response. I wish I were better than that!

Ultimately, my submission isn't a gift. It's another part of me.

 

[Justplatonic]

This is a great link, MD - thanks.

The author sums up a lot of the feelings I've had about the submission as a gift.

She writes that thinking about submission as this thing, this tidy item wrapped neatly I then hand to a Dominant negates the work that goes into establishing then sustaining a D/s relationship.

Kim mentions this - how, in some cases, (and, I think, in the cliched way this statement is thrown around) handing over the gift of submission absolves a sub of anything more than the act of handing it over.

MD, you said it - and it's spot on - how so many subs say their submission must be earned. Which is fine. I get that. I think someone's domination must be earned as well. But I can't turn around and say here's the gift you earned.

I've been thing A LOT about expectations lately. Letting go of expectations. I keep thinking if I don't have any, I can't be disappointed. Should I reframe it and say with no expectations, I might find unexpected joy?! That seems to be another topic!!

Generally, I give a gift because I want to see that person happy. It's a thank you for being in my life. But yeah, sometimes I hope for a certain response. And I'm disappointed when I don't get that response. I wish I were better than that!

Ultimately, my submission isn't a gift. It's another part of me.

I really liked how you worked your way through your thought process, then presented your conclusion. If anything, that was in itself, a gift to read, thank you...