Do you think submission is a gift?

[Goldenfinger]

Some are dominant some are submissive. So I don’t know if it’s a gift. Maybe it’s more of a responsibility. A Responsibility for the dominant. I guess some might call it a gift but to me a gift is something you picked out and gave someone. I think some are just submissives and that’s who they are and no matter what that’s their role in any relationship.

 

[KimGordon67]

I feel like a lot of the posts in this thread - definitely mine included - got wound up in detailed excavations of the semantics of the word 'gift' and the action of 'gifting', whereas it feels like the original post (and I might be wrong here) was engaging with the common 'cliché' that submission is a 'gift', which I don't think incorporates that more details consideration of what 'gift' actually means. This: "Every sub ive ever heard go on and on about their submission being a gift.... always made it evident that a Dom would have to go through hoops to be able to EARN their submission. Well those two concepts are not compatible." feels like it wraps up the issue with the whole cliché thing as well. I not sure that I like the idea that someone is 'earning' submission either. I do need to trust someone, obviously, but that's a complex thing. Like the guy I was seeing up until recently - it was a very casual thing, and he wasn't big on talking about 'stuff'. While there were some little elements of control in the sex, and we probably could have stretched that a bit further, there was no way I was going to have him beating my arse with a belt, because I was pretty sure he wouldn't be up for the level of aftercare I need with that sort of thing (and a range of other things), and he never stayed over. It's not that I didn't *trust* him - he's actually a really trustworthy guy. So it wasn't really that he didn't 'earn' my submission ... it just wasn't safe for me in that particular context. So if I do 'submit' to someone, it's not (for me) because they've 'earned' it - it's more that they're the sort of person that I feel OK about doing this with.

 

[SimonDoom]

I feel like a lot of the posts in this thread - definitely mine included - got wound up in detailed excavations of the semantics of the word 'gift' and the action of 'gifting', whereas it feels like the original post (and I might be wrong here) was engaging with the common 'cliché' that submission is a 'gift', which I don't think incorporates that more details consideration of what 'gift' actually means. This: "Every sub ive ever heard go on and on about their submission being a gift.... always made it evident that a Dom would have to go through hoops to be able to EARN their submission. Well those two concepts are not compatible." feels like it wraps up the issue with the whole cliché thing as well. I not sure that I like the idea that someone is 'earning' submission either. I do need to trust someone, obviously, but that's a complex thing. Like the guy I was seeing up until recently - it was a very casual thing, and he wasn't big on talking about 'stuff'. While there were some little elements of control in the sex, and we probably could have stretched that a bit further, there was no way I was going to have him beating my arse with a belt, because I was pretty sure he wouldn't be up for the level of aftercare I need with that sort of thing (and a range of other things), and he never stayed over. It's not that I didn't *trust* him - he's actually a really trustworthy guy. So it wasn't really that he didn't 'earn' my submission ... it just wasn't safe for me in that particular context. So if I do 'submit' to someone, it's not (for me) because they've 'earned' it - it's more that they're the sort of person that I feel OK about doing this with.

I'm someone who does like to over-analyze and over-think things. It doesn't seem like overthinking to me, but it probably does to some others.

So as someone who likes to play the Dom role sometimes, it's more pleasurable for me if what the sub offers isn't a gift so much as it is an exchange that I know and she knows she is getting something out of. I want to know that she is taking a submissive position and has fully thought it through and is really enjoying it. If she doesn't, it's less pleasurable for me. I want our minds to be fully engaged in what we're doing, and in sync with our respective roles. That's what makes it truly, deeply erotic and satisfying.

I've only dabbled in BDSM, so I don't know what it's like for others, but I imagine it's quite difficult to find a BDSM partner who is exactly right for you, because there are so many nuances to it. I've had some enjoyable experiences but would not say I've yet found the perfect partner.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

.....

 

[Mei5ter]

I feel like a lot of the posts in this thread - definitely mine included - got wound up in detailed excavations of the semantics of the word 'gift' and the action of 'gifting', whereas it feels like the original post (and I might be wrong here) was engaging with the common 'cliché' that submission is a 'gift', which I don't think incorporates that more details consideration of what 'gift' actually means. This: "Every sub ive ever heard go on and on about their submission being a gift.... always made it evident that a Dom would have to go through hoops to be able to EARN their submission. Well those two concepts are not compatible." feels like it wraps up the issue with the whole cliché thing as well. I not sure that I like the idea that someone is 'earning' submission either. I do need to trust someone, obviously, but that's a complex thing. Like the guy I was seeing up until recently - it was a very casual thing, and he wasn't big on talking about 'stuff'. While there were some little elements of control in the sex, and we probably could have stretched that a bit further, there was no way I was going to have him beating my arse with a belt, because I was pretty sure he wouldn't be up for the level of aftercare I need with that sort of thing (and a range of other things), and he never stayed over. It's not that I didn't *trust* him - he's actually a really trustworthy guy. So it wasn't really that he didn't 'earn' my submission ... it just wasn't safe for me in that particular context. So if I do 'submit' to someone, it's not (for me) because they've 'earned' it - it's more that they're the sort of person that I feel OK about doing this with.

Well, speaking for myself, I rather liked your semantics.

There is a spectrum here, I think. At one end is the obsession with labels and definitions to which BDSM discussions do seem painfully prone (and I'm not using those words in a good way on this occasion). But if you don't try to unpack the meaning of the question a little, you end up asking, "Do you think that a trite, cheesy, unrealistic Hallmark cliché is a cheesy, trite, unrealistic cliché typical of Hallmark?" - an easier question to answer, but one which wouldn't have elicited many of the interesting responses here, including yours.

I suppose the other thing which has interested me about this thread is that while there has been lots of discussion about what is meant and implied by the word 'gift', nobody has yet been brave enough to attempt a definition of 'submission' in this context. I'm not even sure that would be possible - the best we could hope for might be to identify some common features which different personal 'submissions' share? Frankly, trying to describe something as complex, personal and variegated as submission with any single abstract noun, let alone something as glib and trite as 'gift', isn't going to end well.

Poor Hallmark. They need to start a new 'Can-O-Worms' range...

 

[BadAmy]

I'm reading through your thoughts here..and I've started and restarted a reply. I don't want to derail the intent of the thread.
I am thinking maybe it's not submission that could be the gift, but the unconditional trust that develops in this type of dynamic that is.
But like many have said, slapping a one term label on it, does the dynamic little justice.
There is so much more to it.
I couldn't completely explain what my experience is, mostly because I can't find the right words.
There is trust. Bottom line, then the feeding of needs, as an intercourse between us.
So to me a gift exists, for everyone involved, and to me..it's the trust.

 

[Justplatonic]

I feel like a lot of the posts in this thread - definitely mine included - got wound up in detailed excavations of the semantics of the word 'gift' and the action of 'gifting', whereas it feels like the original post (and I might be wrong here) was engaging with the common 'cliché' that submission is a 'gift', which I don't think incorporates that more details consideration of what 'gift' actually means. This: "Every sub ive ever heard go on and on about their submission being a gift.... always made it evident that a Dom would have to go through hoops to be able to EARN their submission. Well those two concepts are not compatible." feels like it wraps up the issue with the whole cliché thing as well. I not sure that I like the idea that someone is 'earning' submission either. I do need to trust someone, obviously, but that's a complex thing. Like the guy I was seeing up until recently - it was a very casual thing, and he wasn't big on talking about 'stuff'. While there were some little elements of control in the sex, and we probably could have stretched that a bit further, there was no way I was going to have him beating my arse with a belt, because I was pretty sure he wouldn't be up for the level of aftercare I need with that sort of thing (and a range of other things), and he never stayed over. It's not that I didn't *trust* him - he's actually a really trustworthy guy. So it wasn't really that he didn't 'earn' my submission ... it just wasn't safe for me in that particular context. So if I do 'submit' to someone, it's not (for me) because they've 'earned' it - it's more that they're the sort of person that I feel OK about doing this with.

Thanks KimGordon67... My posts sometimes read a bit clinical (especially when I re-read them!). Your post nailed my sentiment exactly, but in much more detail, and feeling. It was great to read it from your POV as well. Sorry it didn't work out with your fella.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

I know what people are trying to say when they say "submission is a gift". It's the easiest way to put something difficult into words.

I much prefer "My submission is a privilege." Or even more accurately "My submission is an honor".

Then, by definition, my submission is
• rare
• something bestowed upon few (all of which have been worthy of it)
• something that can be revoked

(All of these things are unlike "a gift".)

Submission means drastically different things to different people, as does dominating. But the time, effort, attention and care that he puts into that is also an "honor" to me.

 

[Justplatonic]

I'm sure other posters have touched on this (thanks PrettyLilPussy19)... Its less about the word 'gift', but rather the dynamic (your interpretation) between sub and Domme/Dom which defines how you feel about submission.

For me, and my POV, there is a vast difference between the two. Humongous. An intelligent, articulate, confident, charismatic, beautiful Woman, Lady, or Domme is far superior to a man IMHO. From my POV, for a sub to refer to his submission as a 'gift' is simply pretentious, and an insult to Her sensibilities.

However, I can appreciate the dynamic between sub and Domme/Dom from others' POV may vary significantly from my own. So I understand/respect why others would think it a 'gift' or a variation of.

 

[Specula]

This is something I hear quite often.

The whole gift thing feels a little like the Hallmark version D/s. My submission isn't a pretty gift, all wrapped up to hand someone.

But then, I feel all cranky and cynical these days so I could be way off base. Maybe it is a precious thing?

What do you think?

Gifts need not be pretty or wrapped wastefully US style. The can be much needed by the recipient. But in the case of submission, it MUST be given (it can be taken too, at the very same time).

 

[JamieJ424]

Submission is what you bring to the table. I don’t think a d/s relationship is all that dramatically different from a vanilla relationship. The difference is the roles the partners take based on need. If a submissive has a deep need to submit, then it’s less a gift than it is a need that must be balanced by a dominant with opposite needs.

 

[Fingerfuxs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIZPp8Z1vjs

 

[policywank]

I see a dynamic where there is an exchange between Dom and Sub. To the extent that either party is giving anything both parties are giving that which fulfills the desires and needs of the other.

Without digging too deep into semantics I feel as though the notion of a gift implies either that one party is giving something up or that one party is gaining more from the exchange. For me if the fit is right that is not what is happening. Rather we are simply adopting complimentary roles - each that to which we are best suited - for mutual benefit and pleasure.

A follower obeys the commands of their leader, but the leader makes those commands in service of those he/she leads.

 

[Acktion]

Many, many years ago... actually a depressing number if I think about it too much... when my late wife and I were newlyweds, her mother received a card in the mail from me a couple of months after the wedding on my wife's birthday.

It was a Thank You card. One of the blank ones inside that you can write your own message. And I filled it right the fuck up (which should surprise no one).

Mother-in-Law called Wife for one of those conversations fraught with "happy tears" that a mere "manly man" gets uncomfortable around.

***shrug***

To return to the regularly scheduled program, I do think people are gifts. Their time is a gift. Their devotion.

Not "only" submissives. But, submissives, Dominants, "fence-humpers," and those more vanilla than Dairy Queen soft serve. Sexual or platonic, regardless of gender, sex, race, religion, or whatever difference one might spotlight.

Yes, even you pervy fucks on my screen are gifts in your own inestimable way.

Because when it gets right down to it, we all have a limited amount of time on any given day. And choosing to invest some of that limited supply in someone...

***shrug***

It's not so much the submissveness, I don't think, that is the gift. Although that is part of it, yes, just not the entirety. Several posters here are submissives that don't submit to me, and yet are a gift to me through their time, consideration, and supportive interactions. (As well as a couple of the ugly, hairy assed Damn Doms.)

I mean, of course, absolutely no disrespect to some of the ones who have a certain disgust for the term "gift" (and not because you frighten me in the slightest, you adorable little miss wild thang). It's just been my thought for a long, long time now that it's better to appreciate the people in your life as gifts. Because when you get right down to it, they don't have to be there, in your life. And one day, they won't.

Peace on your path, and best wishes for the sun out of your eyes and the wind at your back for a brighter tomorrow than yesterday.

 

[Dom70]

As a Dom...I would love for submission to just be something I can "take". However...I believe that submission that is earned, is treasured (by both the Dom AND the submissive) and then given more freely.(by the submissive)
I hope that made sense...

 

[sweettalk4u]

This is something I hear quite often.

The whole gift thing feels a little like the Hallmark version D/s. My submission isn't a pretty gift, all wrapped up to hand someone.

But then, I feel all cranky and cynical these days so I could be way off base. Maybe it is a precious thing?

What do you think?

Submission in a D/s relationship is the result of two people working together

 

[Scareltt]

No simple answer here.

Submission is a gift, but you have to know how to use it. Submission is a gift, but it’s a gift that requires attention.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I see my wife's dominance and leadership as a gift. I'd like to think she sees my submission as a gift but I do it for myself as much (or more so) than I do it for her.

 

[ian370]

Personally, I feel that a feeling mean more than phrase. Many things can be composed of technical letters. Some may say gift. Others may choose a different word or two.

There is a willingness on both ends. Yet even this comes with feeling. Even though the general premise may be alike. Ultimately all specific dynamics are essentially different.

Then again. It is that time of year and all.

 

[DarkPrimalRose]

For me: My submission is, as mentioned by others, is a need. It's who I am; I am a submissive. I suspect it is the same with Dominant; it's who they are, it's a need.

That said, I do not submit to everyone. Being in a D/s dynamic--whether it's in play or established--requires a level of trust and communication that must be freely given and must be valued, much like a gift.

I choose who I submit to, and that is, in a way, a gift to the Alpha, just like the Alpha will choose to gift me their dominance.

On the other hand, the 'gift' analogy is cheesy, but I can't think of a better term, to be fair lol.

 

[wicked woman]

gift definition

NOUN
1. a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
"a Christmas gift" ·
synonyms: present · donation · offering · contribution · handout · presentation · bestowal ·

2. a natural ability or talent. "he has a gift for comedy"
synonyms: talent · flair · aptitude · facility · knack · technique · touch · bent · ability ·

VERB
3. give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest.
"the company gifted 2,999 shares to a charity"




1. While no payment is involved, I do expect something...lots...in return for my submission. With a gift, I don't care how the recipient uses or if they discard my gift. The same can not be said of my submission.

2. Not how I usually think of a gift, or how I think it's usually meant when people say submission is a gift, but I would have to agree, that based on this definition, my submission is a gift.

3. This is just the action of definition #1 so the same answer replies.

Personally, I really dislike when people say submission is a gift. I rarely hear that someone's dominance is a gift. Why the difference? If it applied to one shouldn't it apply to the other? I think most people are thinking of definition #1 when they use this phrase so my answer is no, my submission is not a gift. Neither is his dominance.

 

[DarkPrimalRose]

Personally, I really dislike when people say submission is a gift. I rarely hear that someone's dominance is a gift. Why the difference? If it applied to one shouldn't it apply to the other? I think most people are thinking of definition #1 when they use this phrase so my answer is no, my submission is not a gift. Neither is his dominance.

I wonder if people say that their submission is a gift is because they don't submit to just anyone, but to those they want to? Or that because being submissive puts the sub in a really vulnerable position open to abuse and that safe words are mostly to protect subs? (FWIW: I strongly believe that Dominants are also in a vulnerable position and can be abused by their subs and should also have the ability to call a scene off)

I do agree with you that we don't hear someone's dominance is a gift (maybe because it's assumed that their dominance is for everyone?) and it really bothers me as I consider a Dominant's dominance a gift to me, but I'm a bit of a romantic that way lol

 

[wicked woman]

I wonder if people say that their submission is a gift is because they don't submit to just anyone, but to those they want to? Or that because being submissive puts the sub in a really vulnerable position open to abuse and that safe words are mostly to protect subs? (FWIW: I strongly believe that Dominants are also in a vulnerable position and can be abused by their subs and should also have the ability to call a scene off)

I do agree with you that we don't hear someone's dominance is a gift (maybe because it's assumed that their dominance is for everyone?) and it really bothers me as I consider a Dominant's dominance a gift to me, but I'm a bit of a romantic that way lol

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm sure there are lots of explanations for why some people think submission is a gift.

That said though, I would be surprised if it's because they don't submit to just anyone. Do those who are monogamous say their love is a gift? I haven't heard it.

How I've often seen the 'gift' scenario used is because a submissive can rescind the 'gift' of their submission. Safe word out. That doesn't sink well with me since either party can stop a scene and/or the relationship. 0

I haven't addressed you comment about abuse, because that's a completely separate issue, for me, from D/s.

 

[Dom70]

Submission is a gift, but you have to know how to use it. Submission is a gift, but it’s a gift that requires attention.

well said my dear....

 

[SissySalina]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm sure there are lots of explanations for why some people think submission is a gift.

That said though, I would be surprised if it's because they don't submit to just anyone. Do those who are monogamous say their love is a gift? I haven't heard it.

How I've often seen the 'gift' scenario used is because a submissive can rescind the 'gift' of their submission. Safe word out. That doesn't sink well with me since either party can stop a scene and/or the relationship. 0

I haven't addressed you comment about abuse, because that's a completely separate issue, for me, from D/s.

Love is not a "gift", Love is a Blessing.