Escaping antizionism

[BrightShinyGirl]

The pivoting was shocking. To watch liberal people esp women, gays and trans buy into Hamas propaganda.
Why would anyone support a group
Holds back rights or kills you, I’ll never understand. Also how can anyone think it was ok for Hamas, and other Gaza to break a ceasefire and slaughtering civilians, many who were not even Israeli, while live streaming their barbaric acts of rape, torture and murder all in the name of religion?

100 years ago, I’m sure there were plenty of bigots who said “Those uppity n****s had it coming”. Bigots always find reasons to justify their hate. But before 10-7 I had no idea there were so many Jew-haters eager to let their freak flag fly.

 

[coati]

Overreacted? Israel was subject to missile attacks every day from Oct 7 until most of Hamas was taken out, and they had to get their hostages back from hell.
Compare the US reaction to 9/11.
We have lived with antisemitism for thousands of years every day of our lives, we are just tired of not calling it out.
Israel is the only place in the world where we don’t.
If you are not Jewish, you have no idea, really you don’t.

The USA over-reacted and mal-reacted to 9/11. We are still paying the price for going overboard on that.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

That subject is similar to any other major protracted conflict involving an ever-escalating cycle of revenge.

There were and are off-ramps to disproportionate escalation.

Don’t retreat into “both sides” rhetoric. What should Israel have done in response to the murder of over 1200 people and the taking of over 200 hostages?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The USA over-reacted and mal-reacted to 9/11. We are still paying the price for going overboard on that.

Israel is tiny compared to the U.S. Proportionally, 10-7 was far worse than 9-11. And yet Israel’s response was far more moderate. It was mostly focused on rescuing the hostages and stopping the ongoing rocket attacks.

 

[coati]

Don’t retreat into “both sides” rhetoric. What should Israel have done in response to the murder of over 1200 people and the taking of over 200 hostages?

Strengthen border defense to be much more effective than a chain link gate that was penetrated by a pickup truck, proportionate response to every attack by Hamas, coordinating with allies on response options, and avoiding the gross level of massive civilian casualties in Gaza before starting negotiations for release of the hostages.

Big subject. Ireland had to find off-ramps to escalation. I hope Israel and the Pig will do the same. Religion-infused wars are very ugly.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Strengthen border defense to be much more effective than a chain link gate that was penetrated by a pickup truck, proportionate response to every attack by Hamas, coordinating with allies on response options, and avoiding the gross level of massive civilian casualties in Gaza before starting negotiations for release of the hostages.

Big subject. Ireland had to find off-ramps to escalation. I hope Israel and the Pig will do the same. Religion-infused wars are very ugly.

Israel’s border with Gaza was clearly too easily breached on 10-7. Egypt’s border was far more fortified and they didn’t allow any Gazans to cross, not even for humanitarian reasons.

But what should Israel have done after the 10-7 attack? What should they have done about the hostages and the ongoing rocket attacks?

 

[coati]

Israel’s border with Gaza was clearly too easily breached on 10-7. Egypt’s border was far more fortified and they didn’t allow any Gazans to cross, not even for humanitarian reasons.

But what should Israel have done after the 10-7 attack? What should they have done about the hostages and the ongoing rocket attacks?

Well, regarding the questions in your second paragraph, I just mentioned the need to coordinate with allies first to consider all options for putting pressure on Hamas. Once Israel started leveling Gaza, those hostages were put in much greater danger and had much more strategic value to Hamas.

I've gotta meet with a neighbor right now to start the work day, but perhaps we can continue this discussion later.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Well, regarding the questions in your second paragraph, I just mentioned the need to coordinate with allies first to consider all options for putting pressure on Hamas. Once Israel started leveling Gaza, those hostages were put in much greater danger and had much more strategic value to Hamas.

I've gotta meet with a neighbor right now to start the work day, but perhaps we can continue this discussion later.

Time was of the essence. We know from the hostages’ own testimony they were being tortured. The Bibas children and their mother were murdered in captivity.

Israel didn’t start by leveling Gaza. They started with targeted airstrikes against Hamas and rescue operations. If the international community had immediately come to Israel’s aid, the crisis could have been ended much sooner. Instead we had months of marches in support of Hamas and the governments of other countries putting pressure on Israel to stand down.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

The pivoting was shocking. To watch liberal people esp women, gays and trans buy into Hamas propaganda.
Why would anyone support a group
Holds back rights or kills you, I’ll never understand. Also how can anyone think it was ok for Hamas, and other Gaza to break a ceasefire and slaughtering civilians, many who were not even Israeli, while live streaming their barbaric acts of rape, torture and murder all in the name of religion?

Nobody buys Hamas propaganda, you're just as bad as the trumptards. People have eyes, people see the atrocities committed by the blood thirsty Jews. I have never seen anyone show support for Hamas or the Oct 7 attacks. You Americans rape and torture more than any country, so again, kindly go fuck yourself you war mongering pedophile .

 

[JohnEngelman]

The best way to escape it is to have Israel stop the genocide and stop stealing land.

Israel is not stealing land. Israel is taking what is theirs.

 

[Noor]

Well, regarding the questions in your second paragraph, I just mentioned the need to coordinate with allies first to consider all options for putting pressure on Hamas. Once Israel started leveling Gaza, those hostages were put in much greater danger and had much more strategic value to Hamas.

I've gotta meet with a neighbor right now to start the work day, but perhaps we can continue this discussion later.

Hard to put pressure on a group whose sole goal is to annihilate the Jewish people and take over Israel, raises their children to be martyrs and to whom dying in the process gives them paradise.

Ok later

 

[Noor]

Strengthen border defense to be much more effective than a chain link gate that was penetrated by a pickup truck, proportionate response to every attack by Hamas, coordinating with allies on response options, and avoiding the gross level of massive civilian casualties in Gaza before starting negotiations for release of the hostages.

Big subject. Ireland had to find off-ramps to escalation. I hope Israel and the Pig will do the same. Religion-infused wars are very ugly.

Comparing the IRA and the division of Ireland by the British to Hamas is no where near the same.
Israel is not having a religious war, they are merely trying to survive.
Israel is about 75% Jewish in some form, 20% Muslim and 5% the rest.
Israel doesn’t care what religion their people or enemies are.
Only Hamas and other Iranian proxies care about annihilating the Jewish state.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Comparing the IRA and the division of Ireland by the British to Hamas is no where near the same.
Israel is not having a religious war, they are merely trying to survive.
Israel is about 75% Jewish in some form, 20% Muslim and 5% the rest.
Israel doesn’t care what religion their people or enemies are.
Only Hamas and other Iranian proxies care about annihilating the Jewish state.

It's a religious war where only one side cares about religion.

The Muslims say "Convert to Islam or die!"
The Jews say "No thanks, we're happy the way are."

It's incomprehensible to me how people can "both sides" this issue.
But then I'm also baffled when people "both sides" the debate between Republicans and Democrats ... .

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Israel is not stealing land. Israel is taking what is theirs.

No they aren't. They are stealing land and homes from Palestinians. Just like they did with Israel itself. It is not theirs. Fables are not facts.

 

[JohnEngelman]

No they aren't. They are stealing land and homes from Palestinians. Just like they did with Israel itself. It is not theirs. Fables are not facts.

There is plenty of room for the Palestinians in the Arab world.

 

[Chernosoth]

Gazans are stateless prisoners. They're not allowed to live as Egyptians, Israelis, or anything else. Some sort of change is inevitable, since what exists there now is insanely expensive for everyone involved, in damage of fertile Mediterranean land, terrorism, war, etc. Egypt, Israel, or some new nation starting in that region will eventually claim Gaza.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

There is plenty of room for the Palestinians in the Arab world.

View attachment 2616184

There's plenty of room for the Jews in America.

I won't even start on how ignorant that meme is.

 

[JohnEngelman]

There's plenty of room for the Jews in America.

I won't even start on how ignorant that meme is.

What does the meme say that is not true?

 

[JohnEngelman]

No they aren't. They are stealing land and homes from Palestinians. Just like they did with Israel itself. It is not theirs. Fables are not facts.

Compare the achievements of the Jews with the achievements of the Palestinians. The Jews are the most accomplished 0.2% of the human population. God gifted his Chosen People with plenty of high IQ genes.

 

[schism666]

Proportionally, 10-7 was far worse than 9-11

huh?

And yet Israel’s response was far more moderate.

explain

It was mostly focused on rescuing the hostages and stopping the ongoing rocket attacks.

cutting off food supplies and bombing hospitals isn't rescuing hostages

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

There's plenty of room for the Jews in America.

I won't even start on how ignorant that meme is.

Please do. I'd love to hear your defense of Arab colonialism.

 

[JohnEngelman]

"Jewish Genuis," by Charles Murray

The sparse representation of Jews during the flowering of the European arts and sciences is not hard to explain. They were systematically excluded, both by legal restrictions on the occupations they could enter and by savage social discrimination. Then came legal emancipation, beginning in the late 1700’s in a few countries and completed in Western Europe by the 1870’s, and with it one of the most extraordinary stories of any ethnic group at any point in human history.

As soon as Jewish children born under legal emancipation had time to grow to adulthood, they started appearing in the first ranks of the arts and sciences. During the four decades from 1830 to 1870, when the first Jews to live under emancipation reached their forties, 16 significant Jewish figures appear. In the next four decades, from 1870 to 1910, the number jumps to 40. During the next four decades, 1910–1950, despite the contemporaneous devastation of European Jewry, the number of significant figures almost triples, to 114.

To get a sense of the density of accomplishment these numbers represent, I will focus on 1870 onward, after legal emancipation had been achieved throughout Central and Western Europe. How does the actual number of significant figures compare to what would be expected given the Jewish proportion of the European and North American population? From 1870 to 1950, Jewish representation in literature was four times the number one would expect. In music, five times. In the visual arts, five times. In biology, eight times. In chemistry, six times. In physics, nine times. In mathematics, twelve times. In philosophy, fourteen times.

Disproportionate Jewish accomplishment in the arts and sciences continues to this day. My inventories end with 1950, but many other measures are available, of which the best known is the Nobel Prize. In the first half of the 20th century, despite pervasive and continuing social discrimination against Jews throughout the Western world, despite the retraction of legal rights, and despite the Holocaust, Jews won 14 percent of Nobel Prizes in literature, chemistry, physics, and medicine/physiology. In the second half of the 20th century, when Nobel Prizes began to be awarded to people from all over the world, that figure rose to 29 percent. So far, in the 21st century, it has been 32 percent. Jews constitute about two-tenths of one percent of the world’s population. You do the math.

https://www.commentary.org/articles/charles-murray/jewish-genius/

 

[coati]

Hard to put pressure on a group whose sole goal is to annihilate the Jewish people and take over Israel, raises their children to be martyrs and to whom dying in the process gives them paradise.

Ok later

Ok, just got back home from work and will soon get ready for this evenings meetings. I see I have some alerts for responses on this topic. My answers will be brief, because I am pecking them out with one finger on my phone while I get cleaned up for a local meeting.

First, your comment above, I do not observe that Palestinians and Islamists in the region are monolithically pursuing the sole goal of annihilating the Jewish people and taking over Israel, so I assume you are talking about the most radical elements here.

If that is true, the question becomes how to deal with the most radical elements without killing or displacing an enormous population of citizens who want to live and let live.

 

[coati]

Comparing the IRA and the division of Ireland by the British to Hamas is no where near the same.
Israel is not having a religious war, they are merely trying to survive.
Israel is about 75% Jewish in some form, 20% Muslim and 5% the rest.
Israel doesn’t care what religion their people or enemies are.
Only Hamas and other Iranian proxies care about annihilating the Jewish state.

The comparison to the situation in Ireland is intended to illustrate what it might take to stop the cycle of violent revenge. Kudos to those who helped to broker that agreement (including George Mitchel), and may it last long enough to serve as an example for an offramp to peaceful coexistence.

 

[coati]

Compare the achievements of the Jews with the achievements of the Palestinians. The Jews are the most accomplished 0.2% of the human population. God gifted his Chosen People with plenty of high IQ genes.

Your input from a eugenics perspective is not helpful.