Ferguson Neverending

[rippitydoo]

The problem is that policemen aren't referees. At the core of their job they are paid to be violent. One of the key parts of having a soveriegn territory (Kingdom, Country, State, County yadda yadda) is that you are and in the case of a country with states or counties and cities anybody who "outranks you" are the only entities legally allowed to engage in violence. In an ideal situation it never comes to that and they should do what they can to avoid that but cops are fundamentally the opposite of refs.

That's the thing, those three steps are not the only ones possible. I doubt they are even the most plausible. I'm sure there are lots of times when cops shoot people and they don't die. I'm sure there are tons of people who get the holy hell beat out of them and did little to nothing to earn it but got it anyway. I have little doubt that cops lie like rugs for each other.

Cops are not paid to be violent. If the person they are arresting for, say, shoplifting is unarmed, there is no reason for the officer's gun to come out, let alone for the shoplifter to live 0 more minutes.

Also, it does not matter if cops like for each other (which I am apparently less-cynical than you on, holding out some doubt & keeping some trust in the majority of those who do that job)... People who are unable to avoid jury duty are also trusting enough they won't believe a cop committed a crime (especially not as serious, violent, & final as killing someone), & wanting that cop to be willing & able to protect them in a hypothetical situation tomorrow (should the need arise), will acquit them.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Cops are not paid to be violent. If the person they are arresting for, say, shoplifting is unarmed, there is no reason for the officer's gun to come out, let alone for the shoplifter to live 0 more minutes.

Also, it does not matter if cops like for each other (which I am apparently less-cynical than you on, holding out some doubt & keeping some trust in the majority of those who do that job)... People who are unable to avoid jury duty are also trusting enough they won't believe a cop committed a crime (especially not as serious, violent, & final as killing someone), & wanting that cop to be willing & able to protect them in a hypothetical situation tomorrow (should the need arise), will acquit them.

Violence need not involve a gun again, cops at the end of the day are paid to be violent, or at least prepared to be violent at the drop of a hat. They are NOT referees by anyy stretch and I hope if one acted like one that they'd get into trouble.

I didn't say cops liked each other. I said they lie like rugs for each other. I've never been a cop. I have been a Marine and I have been on a sports team. Not a sports team that was doing anything worse than underaged drinking but still. I think it's a safe bet that if military people will lie for their brother's and sisters, football teams can manage to cover up rapes and pedophiles for years and years, and fraternities can get away with all of that because you cover for your family that police would be somewhere between the "I'd take a bullet for you without thinking about it" of the Marines, and "Oh you raped he. She was hot and had a lot to drink lets go tell coach was we can get our stories straight of a sufficient number of athletes and Frat bros. It's about protecting your own.

Juries are a slightly different animal. Some of them honestly believe as you say. Some of them think that if you start putting cops away not only will they be killed in jail but it'll make the force look bad and lower confidence. A lot watch too much crime drama and think prosecutors are magical and if there is no DNA, live video or fingerprints then it's a "reasonable doubt."

 

[rippitydoo]

Violence need not involve a gun again, cops at the end of the day are paid to be violent, or at least prepared to be violent at the drop of a hat. They are NOT referees by anyy stretch and I hope if one acted like one that they'd get into trouble.

I didn't say cops liked each other. I said they lie like rugs for each other. I've never been a cop. I have been a Marine and I have been on a sports team. Not a sports team that was doing anything worse than underaged drinking but still. I think it's a safe bet that if military people will lie for their brother's and sisters, football teams can manage to cover up rapes and pedophiles for years and years, and fraternities can get away with all of that because you cover for your family that police would be somewhere between the "I'd take a bullet for you without thinking about it" of the Marines, and "Oh you raped he. She was hot and had a lot to drink lets go tell coach was we can get our stories straight of a sufficient number of athletes and Frat bros. It's about protecting your own.

Juries are a slightly different animal. Some of them honestly believe as you say. Some of them think that if you start putting cops away not only will they be killed in jail but it'll make the force look bad and lower confidence. A lot watch too much crime drama and think prosecutors are magical and if there is no DNA, live video or fingerprints then it's a "reasonable doubt."

Cops are prepared to be violent, but not paid to do so. If anything, they are paid & perhaps expected to be nonviolent. If they act like referees by breaking up violent & potentially deadly fights, that is a good thing & not something I would wish against or expect to lead to their being reprimanded.

I didn't mean to write whether or not cops liked each other; That was a simple & obvious typo. However, I would hope that if a force found proof one had lied for another (especially in court or the like) that this would be the cause of the liar's punishment if not dismissal from the force.

Also, nobody in their right mind (which you seem to have proven in this thread doesn't describe you) believes putting a cop that is guilty of a crime in jail will make the force look bad or lower confidence in them. In fact, if anything, the reverse is true.

 

[phrodeau]

Meanwhile, hundreds of armed, white anti-Muslim protestors in Phoenix are treated very nicely by the police.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Meanwhile, hundreds of armed, white anti-Muslim protestors in Phoenix are treated very nicely by the police.

Are you sure they are all white? Probably most of them are, but I doubt that 100% are.

They are treated nicely because they are peaceful and are not doing anything illegal. In AZ, the gun laws are quite lax, so if somebody there has an automatic rifle, he or she is not breaking any law. They may or not need the weapons. A similar demonstration in TX was attacked by Muslim fanatics.

 

[Boxlicker101]

So they ARE capable of causing a change in human behavior.....



That's the big steaming pile of shit you're sticking with right? I just want to make sure before I go digging for a bunch of links to crush your stupid and send you packing right the fuck out of this thread like I know you will do instead of taking personal responsibility and just admitting you're full of it.......


So cops are only good right?

Impossible for them to cause anything negative ever unless they are the victim right? That's the crazy you're sticking with?

Or are you still unsure of what the word cause means?

You still sticking with the whole cops don't cause anything negative ever??? You really think their behavior/presence is nothing but rainbow unicorn farts hua?

This is right up there with you saying you don't support the war on drugs but you think drug dealers should all be doing 20 year mandatory minimums.......

Were you a cop or something? I've never seen someone so blindly biased for law enforcement as the shining example of holy altruistic perfection on Earth as I have found in you.

So what's the real reason behind your COPS/LEO's= perfect humans that can do no wrong nor even cause wrong to happen...like some fucking unworldly superhero god or some shit.....maybe daddy was a popo??

If you can point out where I said the things you are accusing me of saying, I will respond, but not otherwise. And, for what it's worth, I have had many negative experiences with the cops, and have no affection for them and very little trust.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If you can point out where I said the things you are accusing me of saying, I will respond, but not otherwise. And, for what it's worth, I have had many negative experiences with the cops, and have no affection for them and very little trust.

Depending on the definition of negative I'm about 50/50. I've definitely had some why don't you just call me 'boy' and get it out of the way, and had at least once where I got a pass that I at best only should have gotten because of benefit of the doubt.

When all is said and done I certainly wouldn't claim I don't like cops. I do think they are out of control in this country but that's a relatively small group. It's just with somethings the numbers don't need to be that high for it to be disruptive. For the reasons I mentioned above I do assume they lie like rugs for each other. I have a funny way of trusting people. For me trust is about knowing what you'll do before you do it. It's not about doing right by me per se, though that's nice. By that token I trust the police. Even if we're talking about doing right by me I trust the police more than I doubt them in a general sense. That however is not to say that if I'm minding my own business and one pulls a gun on me and I think I can take him that I'm not gonna take my shot. One thing my father, Drill Instructor, CO and Security Guard trainer all agree on it's that if you are given the choice of being carried by six or tried by twelve that you don't have a choice. Also if you shoot or stab someone finish the job. When the cops and later Jury hear the story there should only be one side to the story. YOURS.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Depending on the definition of negative I'm about 50/50. I've definitely had some why don't you just call me 'boy' and get it out of the way, and had at least once where I got a pass that I at best only should have gotten because of benefit of the doubt.

When all is said and done I certainly wouldn't claim I don't like cops. I do think they are out of control in this country but that's a relatively small group. It's just with somethings the numbers don't need to be that high for it to be disruptive. For the reasons I mentioned above I do assume they lie like rugs for each other. I have a funny way of trusting people. For me trust is about knowing what you'll do before you do it. It's not about doing right by me per se, though that's nice. By that token I trust the police. Even if we're talking about doing right by me I trust the police more than I doubt them in a general sense. That however is not to say that if I'm minding my own business and one pulls a gun on me and I think I can take him that I'm not gonna take my shot. One thing my father, Drill Instructor, CO and Security Guard trainer all agree on it's that if you are given the choice of being carried by six or tried by twelve that you don't have a choice. Also if you shoot or stab someone finish the job. When the cops and later Jury hear the story there should only be one side to the story. YOURS.

Mostly my negatives were being arrested for what I still consider no good reason.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Mostly my negatives were being arrested for what I still consider no good reason.

The one time I was arrested I deserved it and I know it. It's still counted as a "negative" but that's my personal prejudice.

I had a cop pull his fire arm on me, frisk me, and demand I prove that I owned my business when I assume a moth set off the motion detector at my office. I don't know how long it took the officer to arrive but even on empty freeways and speeding the entire way I was a half hour away from my office and still got there enough before him to be halfway done with my game of Warcraft when he got there. I guess criminals have a habit of turning off alarms and waiting in well lit rooms for police or something. He was also a rude bastard. And trust me if you do your paper work primarily at home proving you own or even work where you are (if the police won't accept "I know the phone number!" "I have the fucking keys!" at two in the morning requires waking people who don't want to be woken.) Of course in hindsight he probably would have accepted i know the combination to both safes but believe me your not always thinking quite clearly after someone pulls a gun.

The last was a time I was out waiting for a ride after bowling with two (white) friends. And this was pretty much how it went.

Officer: What are you doing out this late?
Sean: Waiting on a ride
Officer: Is this true?
Friend A: Yes. He's with us.
Officer: Where do you live?
Sean: Fontana 1343 *** st
Officer: Is this true?
Friend B: Honestly don't know his address off hand, he's three blocks from my house I walk there.

And it's like that for almost ten minutes and nobody else is asked any questions about anything other than if I'm lying. And this was like '99 and I'm 17, didn't have my license yet, cell phones weren't something that kids had yet. Hell most adults didn't have them yet.

Ultimately it was more annoying than anything else but every single black male I know can tell you at least one similar story if not a worse one. When you see it for yourself and hear it enough from people who have minimum motivation to lie. (Not that I'm saying all of them are the most honest people ever. But when your brother walks in the door at 1am and starts off with "you won't believe what just happened. Apparently if you're sitting in a car in a well lit parking lot with a woman even if she's fully dressed and you're six months younger you best have an excuse for why your in a car at night with a seventeen year old!" I'm inclined to believe and not because he's family. Because that would be a damn creative lie to have come up with for little pay off.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If you can point out where I said the things you are accusing me of saying, I will respond, but not otherwise.

What I said is that cops do not cause violence, and I will stand by that, with one exception. If a cop is the victim of the violence

You saying cops can't cause violence to erupt unless they are the victims...point blank. LOL

You've never seen them attack demonstrators or beat someone retarded or better yet NOT doing something and causing a riot?

It's on TV like every other fuckin' month dude....cops cause violence all the fuckin' time man and NO they aren't always the victim. Put the GOP Kool-Aid down.

And, for what it's worth, I have had many negative experiences with the cops, and have no affection for them and very little trust.

Yet you sit here in total denial of reality that in certain situations cops are the direct cause of violence and they aren't always the fuckin' victim, despite your affectionate and defensive po-po loving claims otherwise.

 

[phrodeau]

Are you sure they are all white? Probably most of them are, but I doubt that 100% are.

They are treated nicely because they are peaceful and are not doing anything illegal. In AZ, the gun laws are quite lax, so if somebody there has an automatic rifle, he or she is not breaking any law. They may or not need the weapons. A similar demonstration in TX was attacked by Muslim fanatics.

These protesters were peaceful and not doing anything illegal. They were not armed, and the were mostly black. What makes the difference?

http://gothamist.com/2015/04/30/nypd_lrad_police_state_fascism.php#photo-1

 

[Boxlicker101]

These protesters were peaceful and not doing anything illegal. They were not armed, and the were mostly black. What makes the difference?

http://gothamist.com/2015/04/30/nypd_lrad_police_state_fascism.php#photo-1

First, I have very little confidence in the integrity of your source. Second, these thousands of people were blocking the street, which is not legal. Third, there don't seem to be any injuries to speak of. One person is shown being placed on a stretcher, but there is no way of knowing what happened to him or her. There was an allegation, but no more than that.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You saying cops can't cause violence to erupt unless they are the victims...point blank. LOL

You've never seen them attack demonstrators or beat someone retarded or better yet NOT doing something and causing a riot?

It's on TV like every other fuckin' month dude....cops cause violence all the fuckin' time man and NO they aren't always the victim. Put the GOP Kool-Aid down.



Yet you sit here in total denial of reality that in certain situations cops are the direct cause of violence and they aren't always the fuckin' victim, despite your affectionate and defensive po-po loving claims otherwise.

Yes, I am saying that cops do not cause violence to erupt. I have never seen them attack peaceful demonstrators who are doing nothing illegal. I have seen them defending themselves in riots, and sometimes innocent individuals get caught in the middle of a melee, but that is the fault of the rioters themselves.

 

[phrodeau]

First, I have very little confidence in the integrity of your source. Second, these thousands of people were blocking the street, which is not legal. Third, there don't seem to be any injuries to speak of. One person is shown being placed on a stretcher, but there is no way of knowing what happened to him or her. There was an allegation, but no more than that.

Ohhh, they were blocking the street, which is illegal. I see.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2240764.1432951111!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/mosque-1-copy.jpg?enlarged

 

[rippitydoo]

Yes, I am saying that cops do not cause violence to erupt. I have never seen them attack peaceful demonstrators who are doing nothing illegal.

Nor have I, the key word being "attack"... They kill them, which is far more final. There are a ton that have a problem with that, but unlike arrests of innocents, it can't be undone.

 

[JackLuis]

Says it all.
http://galleries.gothamistllc.com/asset/554228f3afcf1d1d8b7eb429/mobile/BaltimoreSolidarityProtest-TodSeelie-56.jpg

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not sure what all that says. The biggest problem really isn't white supremacy so much as white privilege and there is a fairly major difference. One for starters is primarily intentional the other is kind of a fact of life.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Are you sure they are all white? Probably most of them are, but I doubt that 100% are.

Love it when you yap out of your ass for the desperate need to yap.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/558b8a2f1a9e398081dfa18886b56e5b/tumblr_np53xuaGhk1qeqbeio2_500.jpg

Yeah, pretty sure that guy was passionately protesting Muslims alongside NON-WHITES.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/499830ac963a4ed206740646ab6674c6/tumblr_inline_noiwb7pfZv1qdes6g_250.jpg

Keep staying basic, Box.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes, I am saying that cops do not cause violence to erupt.

Keep chugging that GOP kool aid box.....

That's a lie and we all fucking know it.....because we watch it happen on TV all the fucking time. Authority figures showing up to enforce rule of law has caused violence from community level skirmishes all the way up to civil fuckin' wars throughout history, today's militant cops are no exception.

There mere presence alters the group think and sometimes it causes violence to break out. Sometimes total inaction on the popo's part can cause violent reactions among the citizenry, other times it's because the beat some guys ass or shot a black kid for being black after dark.

Like it or not cops cause violence all the fucking time and they aren't always the victims.

I have never seen them attack peaceful demonstrators who are doing nothing illegal. I have seen them defending themselves in riots, and sometimes innocent individuals get caught in the middle of a melee, but that is the fault of the rioters themselves.

Oh keep staking those prerequisites there box.....LOL slob that popo knob a little harder there guy.

Illigal and non violent are NOT the same nor was it part of the discussion. We are talking about if cops do or do not cause violence.....and they do, you're just having an impossible time defending your bullshit and you don't have enough integrity and personal responsibility to own up to the fact that you were mistaken when you said they don't. Otherwise you wouldn't keep stacking on qualifiers in a flailing attempt to keep your GOP Kool-aid tasting sweet.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Nor have I, the key word being "attack"... They kill them, which is far more final. There are a ton that have a problem with that, but unlike arrests of innocents, it can't be undone.

I challenge you to find one example, outside of the South where Democrats murdered civil rights protestors, of cops killing peaceful demonstrators.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I love how every time I look up the paramters have changed just a little bit more.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I love how every time I look up the paramters have changed just a little bit more.

LOL they just keep getting more and more specific don't they

Must be all that conservative integrity and personal responsibility.......LMFAO.

 

[tnadnuder]

I challenge you to find one example, outside of the South where Democrats murdered civil rights protestors, of cops killing peaceful demonstrators.

I haven't done a ton of research, largely b/c while I'm reading one, another shows up...

Martin, Gray, I forget the other, but I remember seeing on TV the night Wilson got off (non-sexual, far as I know).

 

[Sean Renaud]

I haven't done a ton of research, largely b/c while I'm reading one, another shows up...

Martin, Gray, I forget the other, but I remember seeing on TV the night Wilson got off (non-sexual, far as I know).

It's nice if you use first names. The only Martin I'm seeing under police killings was an officer.

Freddie Grey (while about as innocent as they come) was not a protester which sadly was the parameters set.

This is part of Boxie's trick in this debate, he narrows the field to something very, very specific and hopes like hell it either didn't happen or that your google-fu is too weak to find it. It's a decent tactic if you allow yourelf to get sucked in.

 

[rippitydoo]

It's nice if you use first names. The only Martin I'm seeing under police killings was an officer.

Freddie Grey (while about as innocent as they come) was not a protester which sadly was the parameters set.

This is part of Boxie's trick in this debate, he narrows the field to something very, very specific and hopes like hell it either didn't happen or that your google-fu is too weak to find it. It's a decent tactic if you allow yourelf to get sucked in.

I don't allow myself (WHOOPS! I mean "myelf") to get sucked in to anything "Boxie" does. Must've happened when I got tired trying to follow & respond to your lies, mistakes, & other crap.

Why don't you try to meet his parameters... Or just lie as always & say you already have?!