"Fifty Shades of Grey"

[midwestyankee]

Awww I feel so young

Which is a quite natural feeling because, in fact, you are.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well sheesh, you gave away the ending. You're going to have to add a talking pie to keep me interested now.

That's just book one, My dear. And how he is screwed up isn't given away until the last page. Well not totally true you get one revelation that sends our female lead running, then you get the knock out blow on the last page.

 

[lovecraft68]

Kudos to you for that!

Yeah this was influenced more by Grimm's fairy tales than Cinderella.

 

[ponysslave]

Remember all the mainstream hype about "The Secretary" and the sudden (temporary) influx of wannabe kinky people?

I don't care...I still have James Spader on the top of my To Do List...and get all jealous- like when I see him on The Office.

 

[intothewoods]

I agree.

At firs I was like, oh a BDSM link, cool. But then I was like, gaaaarrrrrr, girl talk!!!!

Um, worse than girl talk. *shudder*

OK, yes, girl talk and vanilla and all that, however this is the reason for my third question. Does this type of main stream exposure hurt or help the kink community.
For example, some of us, um older folk, remember "Are you there God, it's me Margaret" as a racy book, when we were in grade school. Lordy, give that to girls these days and they'll laugh in your face. For me it was, the Sleeping Beauty Chronicles, in 9th grade that really hit home. Oh yes, I'm sure those made a lasting imprint on me.

I suppose this "new" book got me thinking, what now? what next?... although I have a box of 60's and 70's paperbacks I got at a garage sale as a joke, I've been meaning to sell that are, shockingly!!!! more dirty than anything you'll find on Lit. I actually hid them from myself as they were too much. Gotta get rid of that box ... But I digress ... Is BDSM the new vanilla sex?
Awww hell I'm drunk, so I may not be able to explain my question ... Sigh

Most people have fantasies involving dominance and submission. That doesn't mean they all want to sign up for the kink scene -- it's pretty minor stuff.

<snip>

Meanwhile, the men who show up saying I AM A DOMLY DOM SUBMIT UNTO ME are probably reading John Ringo. Who doesn't ever say jack shit about safewords, but does say that mothers and daughters should love to do threesomes with him.

There is definitely a gap.

Ha ha.

 

[YourCaptor]

OK, yes, girl talk and vanilla and all that, however this is the reason for my third question. Does this type of main stream exposure hurt or help the kink community.
For example, some of us, um older folk, remember "Are you there God, it's me Margaret" as a racy book, when we were in grade school. Lordy, give that to girls these days and they'll laugh in your face. For me it was, the Sleeping Beauty Chronicles, in 9th grade that really hit home. Oh yes, I'm sure those made a lasting imprint on me.

I suppose this "new" book got me thinking, what now? what next?... although I have a box of 60's and 70's paperbacks I got at a garage sale as a joke, I've been meaning to sell that are, shockingly!!!! more dirty than anything you'll find on Lit. I actually hid them from myself as they were too much. Gotta get rid of that box ... But I digress ... Is BDSM the new vanilla sex?
Awww hell I'm drunk, so I may not be able to explain my question ... Sigh

I don't think this is BDSM. This is golddigers wishing their husbands would show a little interest in bed.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think this is BDSM. This is golddigers wishing their husbands would show a little interest in bed.

yes exactly-- And also poor women wishing the same. And wishing too the they had more money.

But I gotta say, the last time I actually knew of any really rich man who was interested friendship, or sex, or music, or in anything except his money? That was back in the seventies.

In the eighties, the culture of money for its own sake began to work it's way into our world.

I do know a few wealthy women who have a little more going on. But they, too, expect their friends to be of a class.

 

[Pelagie]

I haven't read the book and probably won't based on the reviews. And the squealing Boca women.

It really bugs me when the mainstream tries to pinpoint a persons kinks down to a cause. Like they're only kinky because of some past abuse and if they would just deal with it, they wouldn't be kinky anymore and thus "normal."

Based on the reviews, that's what I think a good chunk of the book is about. He's not really bad! Just misunderstood!

 

[Holly Delight]

50 Shades of Grey

I read it.

It's a vanilla book with some grey BDSM sprinkles on it.
I personally prefer more colorful sprinkles.

Holly

 

[lovecraft68]

I think what jerks me off (aside from the wife occasionally) is when something that you have been a part of for years becomes trendy.

You understand it, you've lived it. For some older people here you may have even really had to hide it.

But you have stuck with it, and enjoyed it, it's not a hobby, but a lifestyle a choice, it's part of you.

Then something like this comes out, and now everyone is into it, everyone is an expert. Then if you "come out" now or claim knowledge of it, it's assumed it's from crap like this. You were a pioneer and now people assume you're a lemming.

I feel this way with Lovecraft. When I became a huge fan back when I was around 10 no one really knew his work.

Now it's every where. They have role playing games, and fucking stuffed cthulhu's for Christ's sake! Every one's an expert because they know all about the Necronimicon.

Same thing here, and BTW the abused child thing is so cliched it's not funny. No shit when a kid is beaten they grow up with funny ideas about pain. Hell that's what happened to me, so portrayals like this annoy me.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think this is BDSM. This is golddigers wishing their husbands would show a little interest in bed.

I said Boca Raton! Just kidding. Apologies to residents of Boca. And yes, you're so right.

 

[lovecraft68]

I read it.

It's a vanilla book with some grey BDSM sprinkles on it.
I personally prefer more colorful sprinkles.

Holly

So I'll bite, aside from abuse what was Mr. Grey's issues or was that it, troubled childhood?

 

[JMohegan]

I think what jerks me off (aside from the wife occasionally) is when something that you have been a part of for years becomes trendy.

You understand it, you've lived it. For some older people here you may have even really had to hide it.

But you have stuck with it, and enjoyed it, it's not a hobby, but a lifestyle a choice, it's part of you.

Then something like this comes out, and now everyone is into it, everyone is an expert. Then if you "come out" now or claim knowledge of it, it's assumed it's from crap like this. You were a pioneer and now people assume you're a lemming.

People have been getting off on power and pain for as long as people have been fucking. That "pioneer" notion is just silly.

 

[lovecraft68]

People have been getting off on power and pain for as long as people have been fucking. That "pioneer" notion is just silly.

and now suddenly it is the "in thing" after all that time. Kind of cheapens the what others have accomplished

 

[JMohegan]

and now suddenly it is the "in thing" after all that time. Kind of cheapens the what others have accomplished

It only cheapens your intimacy if you value that intimacy for some nose-in-the-air reason.

Intimacy that is valued for the bond itself is neither enriched nor cheapened by whatever anyone else is doing.

 

[lovecraft68]

It only cheapens your intimacy if you value that intimacy for some nose-in-the-air reason.

Intimacy that is valued for the bond itself is neither enriched nor cheapened by whatever anyone else is doing.

True. But it still causes my eyes to roll when I hear people now proclaim they "know all about it" and you're full of crap if you tell me your doesn't as well.

 

[JMohegan]

True. But it still causes my eyes to roll when I hear people now proclaim they "know all about it" and you're full of crap if you tell me your doesn't as well.

My eyes roll when people claim there's a monolithic "it" to know about. Most often these are people who say they've been doing "it" for years.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think what jerks me off (aside from the wife occasionally) is when something that you have been a part of for years becomes trendy.

You understand it, you've lived it. For some older people here you may have even really had to hide it.

But you have stuck with it, and enjoyed it, it's not a hobby, but a lifestyle a choice, it's part of you.

Then something like this comes out, and now everyone is into it, everyone is an expert. Then if you "come out" now or claim knowledge of it, it's assumed it's from crap like this. You were a pioneer and now people assume you're a lemming.

I feel this way with Lovecraft. When I became a huge fan back when I was around 10 no one really knew his work.

Now it's every where. They have role playing games, and fucking stuffed cthulhu's for Christ's sake! Every one's an expert because they know all about the Necronimicon.

Same thing here, and BTW the abused child thing is so cliched it's not funny. No shit when a kid is beaten they grow up with funny ideas about pain. Hell that's what happened to me, so portrayals like this annoy me.

*plays a tiny violin*

You sound like a little kid: "You can't have blue for your favorite color, it's MY favorite color!"

yep-- everyone knows about the Necronomicon nowadays. They really do-- they know just as much as you ever did. Every bit as much.

Likewise, new people come into BDSM daily, for whatever reason, to stay or go. That's just the way these thing happen. If you know something about the subject, fine-- all the better for your playmates. If it's all about establishing yourself as an expert-- that's a whole different ball of wax. Personally, I find the more I know the more time I spend teaching, and the less time I get to do what I love.

 

[waaitg]

Meh.

I have been on both sides of the equation.

When I started to play with rope, the people who had already been engaged in it gave me a "oh look, somebody else is joining the bandwagon" look that was quite condescending. After all, I couldn't be expected to be as serious as them and their commitment of 6 months (when they spent a total of $10 in acquiring supplies). Now years later they still can't tie a basic knot without looking at a video online but they are still happy to tell folks they have been doing it "forever".

On the other side of the equation though, I became a fan of a group when their first single, Sex Type Thing, was released and enjoyed it quite a bit. The reason I hadn't heard of the band was that they were from down in the US and didn't get much local airplay (back when airplay and not Internet Buzz was a factor). It was frustrating for me to hear years later about people who claimed to be "the biggest fans" of the group yet when I asked them about Sex Type Thing, all I saw was blank looks on their face.

I think the problem here is that "Old fans" have a problem with Johnny come latelies because they have seen new people come along, claim to be supportive of "X", when these new people are really doing it for the coolness factor or out of mob mentality rather than out of genuine interest. Fair enough.

However I think that these Old Fans forget that having new people appreciate "X" does not diminish their own experience and old fans risk turning off new people by trying to impose some sort of "minimum standard" of Fanboi-ness. Do people really need to meet some coolness standard or pass a test to enjoy something? Did the original "True believers" have to pass one?

W~

 

[knot_sweet]

I think the problem is more along the lines of the readers thinking "I thought that was hot, I must be a submissive or dominant"...

I think two guys kissing is hot. I am not a guy and I'm not gay.

There is a difference between appreciating, being tolerant of or supporting something and actually being or understanding something.

And I think this is where people get confused.

That said, I still believe that good mainstream media exposure, even a romanticised version, of what BDSM is can only help the community gain acceptance and equality.

We gotta start somewhere right?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think the problem here is that "Old fans" have a problem with Johnny come latelies because they have seen new people come along, claim to be supportive of "X", when these new people are really doing it for the coolness factor or out of mob mentality rather than out of genuine interest. Fair enough.

However I think that these Old Fans forget that having new people appreciate "X" does not diminish their own experience and old fans risk turning off new people by trying to impose some sort of "minimum standard" of Fanboi-ness. Do people really need to meet some coolness standard or pass a test to enjoy something? Did the original "True believers" have to pass one?

W~

Yeah, in a way, the "true believers," the "Old Guard" and "the Elders" did have to pass a test. We had to learn to understand ourselves, forgive ourselves, find our playmates and partners, develop the practices that would give us satisfaction, in spite of isolation and ignorance-- our own no less than the public-- and it has taken nearly a half a century of making mistakes and getting hurt, to create the standards that newcomers so blithely rely on-- and ignore whenever they feel like it.

I have to admit that on a bad day it's kinda hard not to be envious of young adults who can approach an existing community with the expectation that they WILL get what they are looking for. That was not true for me.

 

[ponysslave]

I think the problem is more along the lines of the readers thinking "I thought that was hot, I must be a submissive or dominant"...

I think two guys kissing is hot. I am not a guy and I'm not gay.

There is a difference between appreciating, being tolerant of or supporting something and actually being or understanding something.

And I think this is where people get confused.

That said, I still believe that good mainstream media exposure, even a romanticised version, of what BDSM is can only help the community gain acceptance and equality.

We gotta start somewhere right?

Absolutely! I think it's great if the media can portray BDSM in a positive light to help break down taboos. And- maybe someone who shares these feelings will benefit from this book by reading it having been too afraid or ashamed to act on their desires because they think their feelings are wrong or abnormal. By seeing this story in mainstream news, people may realize that their feelings are, in fact, OK.

 

[knot_sweet]

Making what we do open and easily accessible is a good thing. There will be less mistakes, lesd prejudice, less people struggling with feeling fucked up and perverted and alone.

The people who paved the way for this sort of exposure should be proud. Hell, the fact that there is even space on a forum like this all to our kinky selves is a huge step in the right direction.

Maybe the "community" needs to get it's cliquey kinky nose out of each other's lube and stop thinking that being all tied up in the closet is a "rite of passage" or whatever to acceptance.

We're trying to help people feel easy and comfortable and normal about this.

Or is it only "kinky" if it's all dark and secret in the toy chest and all done according to the "rules".

And this book, no matter how crap, is a massive indication that all the hard work is starting to pay off.

My only complaint is still that it will generate a bunch of people thinking they are something they are not because the erotica or fantasy is hot without bothering to explore the reality.


*gets off high horse* end rant.

 

[ponysslave]

Making what we do open and easily accessible is a good thing. There will be less mistakes, lesd prejudice, less people struggling with feeling fucked up and perverted and alone.

The people who paved the way for this sort of exposure should be proud. Hell, the fact that there is even space on a forum like this all to our kinky selves is a huge step in the right direction.

Maybe the "community" needs to get it's cliquey kinky nose out of each other's lube and stop thinking that being all tied up in the closet is a "rite of passage" or whatever to acceptance.

We're trying to help people feel easy and comfortable and normal about this.

Or is it only "kinky" if it's all dark and secret in the toy chest and all done according to the "rules".

And this book, no matter how crap, is a massive indication that all the hard work is starting to pay off.

My only complaint is still that it will generate a bunch of people thinking they are something they are not because the erotica or fantasy is hot without bothering to explore the reality.


*gets off high horse* end rant.

*catches you off horse and gives you a really cool high five*

 

[BiBunny]

I don't think that "we" owe it to anyone to be ambassadors or to work to remove the stigma or any other shit like that. At one time, it was very hard to find like-minded people, yes. But with the advent of the Internet, all that changed. Now, if you can't figure out how to Google, I REALLY don't feel sorry for you. The rest of us managed to figure it out without someone holding our hands. I mean, ask yourself if you really want to be in relationships with people who have to be spoon-fed to *that* degree.

/cantankerous Bunny