"Fifty Shades of Grey"

[knot_sweet]

If any of the long term kinksters are going to be honest, they will admit that there is very large dose of elitism within the community.

If you don't dress a certain way, have no interest in "protocols", don't treat way the "old guard" with the deference they think is due to them instead of the polite civility I accord everyone, might never enjoy pain, have no interest in face to face relationships or whatever...

In short, if you don't meet the standards they have set, somehow you automatically become less...

And the patronising attitude "I've been doing this for years dahling, what could you possibly know or understand, go away little noob" that seems to prevail with alot of members.

It's sheer snobbery and it's one of the main reasons I have little desire to fraternise with the real life community.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Really? You can tell, especially around here.

how? I'm quite serious. And also, I am ONLY asking in reference to knot sweet's assertion that some people will "flaunt their totally awesome submissiveness" and therefore be worthy of scorn, while another group will be meek, questioning, and unsure and therefore be worthy.

Because ebullience is bad? Because good manners (which I far prefer don't get me wrong) are proof of authenticity?

It kinda doesn't work that way ladies. There is often some sort of clue-- semiotics or something-- but I for one have been wrong as often as I've been right when I make those assumptions. You've all seen me fall on my ass around here I'm sure!

 

[Loverskitten]

how? I'm quite serious. And also, I am ONLY asking in reference to knot sweet's assertion that some people will "flaunt their totally awesome submissiveness" and therefore be worthy of scorn, while another group will be meek, questioning, and unsure and therefore be worthy.

Because ebullience is bad? Because good manners (which I far prefer don't get me wrong) are proof of authenticity?

It kinda doesn't work that way ladies. There is often some sort of clue-- semiotics or something-- but I for one have been wrong as often as I've been right when I make those assumptions. You've all seen me fall on my ass around here I'm sure!

Of course, you can't know someone's intentions 100% of the time but on this board, yes, manners, sincere questions and curiosity, some diligence in reading, research and taking advice are dead give aways.
Then there are the other ones

 

[Loverskitten]

Sometimes those other ones can be entertaining though. But then they're gone pretty quickly.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If any of the long term kinksters are going to be honest, they will admit that there is very large dose of elitism within the community.

If you don't dress a certain way, have no interest in "protocols", don't treat way the "old guard" with the defetence they think is due to them instead of the polite civility I accord everyone, might never enjoy pain, have no interest in face to face relationships or whatever...

In short, if you don't meet the standards they have set, somehow you automatically become less...

It's sheer snobbery and it's one of the main reasons I have little desire to fraternise with the real life community.

Yup.

I know people like that around here. I'm too anarchistic and not competitive, not interested in 24/7, and don't have the money to do Butchman's Weekends and the leather conferences-- so I don't see much of those folks either. Currently it's all singletails and bloodplay and piercings.

I want gangbangs and mud fights and a flogging once in a while-- maybe some electrostim-- and some rope to hold someone still for it all. Hardly hold my head up!

But the people who enjoy protocol, love deference, have those fetishes for proper clothing-- are quite happy to not deal with you -- or me for that matter-- during their happy fun times.

It's not so much sheer snobbery as it is the fragility of those happy moments, in my opinion. The Old Guard don't like to have to defend themselves and the choices they've made, any more than you do. It isn't any easier for them. And they might feel they've paid their dues. They want what they want, just like you do.

What I did though, was make a little bit of fuss on fetlife. And that brought a few women out of the woodwork, and we've started a New Guard. So now theres more action.

 

[knot_sweet]

how? I'm quite serious. And also, I am ONLY asking in reference to knot sweet's assertion that some people will "flaunt their totally awesome submissiveness" and therefore be worthy of scorn, while another group will be meek, questioning, and unsure and therefore be worthy.

Because ebullience is bad? Because good manners (which I far prefer don't get me wrong) are proof of authenticity?

It kinda doesn't work that way ladies. There is often some sort of clue-- semiotics or something-- but I for one have been wrong as often as I've been right when I make those assumptions. You've all seen me fall on my ass around here I'm sure!

I don't believe I ever once used the word meek, nor did I infer enthusiasm was negative.

I am certainly not, nor have I ever been meek. My enthusiasm has never been less than full on. When I first got started, my insatiable need to know and experience everything immediately took quite a while to temper.

 

[Loverskitten]

If any of the long term kinksters are going to be honest, they will admit that there is very large dose of elitism within the community.

If you don't dress a certain way, have no interest in "protocols", don't treat way the "old guard" with the deference they think is due to them instead of the polite civility I accord everyone, might never enjoy pain, have no interest in face to face relationships or whatever...

In short, if you don't meet the standards they have set, somehow you automatically become less...

And the patronising attitude "I've been doing this for years dahling, what could you possibly know or understand, go away little noob" that seems to prevail with alot of members.

It's sheer snobbery and it's one of the main reasons I have little desire to fraternise with the real life community.

This is true of almost any "community" though, right?
Isn't that why hipsters exist? Hehe

 

[knot_sweet]

This is true of almost any "community" though, right?

Heck yeah it is!

Doesn't mean I have to like it, put up with it quietly or go along with it though.

I might come hang out in the "New Guard" corner for a while...

 

[lovecraft68]

Possibly not the place to post this, but in a sense fitting with the discussion.

I received this feedback on my 2 part Story "The Breaking of Allison"

No club

could be worth getting my ass raped dry and ripped apart and my shoulder muscles severely torn. Some of the stuff you describe in this story is physically dangerous--safe and sane, not so much. You're a dom in real life, right? Do you actually treat your subs this severely, and if so, do you drive them to the emergency room when they need medical care?

Welcome to real BDSM. This reader would certainly be better served reading about Mr. Grey or perhaps another story that is doing well on Amazon and not getting any credit-The dom of my dreams(this was a lit story BTW so props to the author)

Now admittedly if I had to do it over again Breaking may have been better off in noncon/reluctance, but it was one of the first I posted here and didn't know better, and two years later don't feel like moving it.

This person is an idiot. Ones shoulder muscles will not be torn by your arms being held over your head high enough to lift you off the ground a couple of inches. It's the equivalent of hanging from a pull up bar.

also the basic premise was that this was an initiation. This was not a true dom/sub encounter this story is about a dominant woman trying to gain acceptance into a group of wealthy doms and in order to do so must be "broken" by another dom. She is proud and strong willed and not the average house wife.

There is a safe word(for you Stella) meaning she can stop at any time. She is asked three times if she would like to quit and says no every time, she also pisses the dom off on several occasions. No one here was being raped and in the end she hits that wall of pleasure/pain she never experienced before and cums howling like an animal while being "raped"

Yes this story is more hardcore than many, but the reaction of that comment is that of the new wave of "soft core Doms"

It's also a comment made by someone on the lit forums because nowhere in my authors notes have I ever stated that I am a dom, or let me say former dom, I'm pretty much a "weekend warrior" these days.

This reaction reminds me of that of one of my daughters friends after they read a vampire book I recommended called They Thirst. She was quite upset at how "cruel and mean" those vampires were and likes Twilight better.

BDSM authors here need to get ready for a wave of negative feedback when Mr. Grey's fans google BDSM stories and start surfing lit, because the romantics will be in for a rude awakening.

As an aside the cruelest thing about "breaking" is the grammar, I was new to writing and my punctuation is more painful to the reader than the acts in the story.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree, the sweet things who love to read about nice spankings with safewords are going to be very upset when they read about edgeplay and risky activities. I've gotten those kinds of comments as well, when I least expected them-- In the pee play story I'm writing right now the top gives her bottom a diuretic drink from the health food store and on of my readers asked me if she had talked to the girl's doctor first. She wrote in the crucial sentences in fact, on my behalf-- which I deleted.

On the other hand, some of them will leave those nice shallows behind and strike out for the deep end.

And then too, you have to remember that a lot of these readers will only read romances anyway.

And yeah-- your character most certainly did have a safeword. The reason we use safewords is so that we can holler "no, no!" to our hearts content secure in the knowledge that nothing will actually stop-- so we ned to remember "grasshopper" means "no."

But your character was given chances to back out. She played by those rules.

I will say though that I, personally, would have some serious damage to my shoulders and arms if I were suspended off the floor by my arms, a combination of a few too many pounds on me and not so much strength. i wish i could-- but that's why I write fiction.

(you could edit your bad grammar and replace the text with a better one, you know)

 

[Netzach]

A cursory glance tells me that this concept of BDSM is like a moon-import onto my time on earth. Irrelevant, mainly.

If people get off on it, go them. I'm not going to rip the stars from their eyes or make fun of them. My life is pretty freaking weird to them, I'm sure.

And fiction isn't responsible for people taking it seriously. I'm generally against killing clergy, but I find Story of the Eye hot.

My actual 3-d real world application idea of hot sex is considerably tamer, and probably looks more like what these noobs like lately.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A cursory glance tells me that this concept of BDSM is like a moon-import onto my time on earth. Irrelevant, mainly.

If people get off on it, go them. I'm not going to rip the stars from their eyes or make fun of them. My life is pretty freaking weird to them, I'm sure.

And fiction isn't responsible for people taking it seriously. I'm generally against killing clergy, but I find Story of the Eye hot.

My actual 3-d real world application idea of hot sex is considerably tamer, and probably looks more like what these noobs like lately.

haha I hear you!

I just started writing a new character. She has tentacles-- and no interest in BDSM. She's kind of nicely vanilla in fact, although in a butch and take-action way.

And I'm thinking.. is this the way I'm going?

Well maybe-- if I had tentacles.

 

[Latina49]

I did a search here and it won't include "grey" so I'll just ask.

Apparently this book is causing quite a stir as it has BDSM in it. It's also the hottest thing for Manhattan "socialites" lately. It was on the freaking 'Today' show this morning.
Have you read it?
Is it worth the read?
Is the whole stir good or bad for BDSM?



I just uploaded the trilogy of "Fifty Shades of Grey" on my kindle. I can't wait to start reading...

 

[ShyVixen]

I've been reading a lot about this book over the past week. I'm an erotic romance author (yes, one of those people who writes about the softer aspects of BDSM), and there is lots of chatter about this book.

I've been put off getting it because of the 'Twilight' aspect. I don't want to read what's essentially a fan fiction.

I am coming in here to defend BDSM elements in erotic romance. Many readers know the difference between reading about BDSM in a fiction novel and real life. Many are intelligent enough to know there is a gap. I got into BDSM by reading erotic romance and decided to explore the scene. I was intelligent enough to know that real life people aren't like romance novels, but the fiction aspect did allow me to realize that kink wasn't a bad thing.

I write milder BDSM but I love edgier erotic romance. I'll admit there isn't much of it about as mainstream publishers shy away from it.

 

[subish2009]

I downloaded the book based solely on the discussion here. It's a quick read. As usual, I feel this is much ado about nothing.

Is it great writing? No, not in my opinion. Is it entertaining? Yes, very much so, and I'm reading the second in the trilogy now. Is it a realistic portrayal of BDSM? Well, duh. Some people will strongly relate to it, some people won't recognize a single element of BDSM as they know it. So, yeah, I guess that's pretty realistic. Infinite flavors.

It IS Twilight with BDSM instead of vampires. And to me, that's ALL it is. This is not an enlightening, world-changing piece of smut. It's another in a long line. Frankly, I relate to this more than any other BDSM fiction I've read (which is, admittedly, not a ton). The heroine pisses me off the same way Bella did in Twilight. She's so dense and overanalyzes everything. But I'm emotionally invested in their relationship now and have to see it through to the end. And the sex scenes are fairly hot.

The writing is pretty poor. Someone on Amazon commented something like, "fifty shades of the same literary phrasing!" But, you know, it's not Pulitzer Prize-winning smut. It's fan fiction smut. Let's not read too much into it.

Ha. Punny.

 

[SueJ]

..........................
Is it great writing? No, not in my opinion. Is it entertaining? Yes, very much so, and I'm reading the second in the trilogy now....................[clipped for brevity]......But, you know, it's not Pulitzer Prize-winning smut. It's fan fiction smut. Let's not read too much into it.

Ha. Punny.

Totally agree! I found it to be a fun read. Nothing more. Nothing less. I enjoyed it. I've only read the first one so far. I'd say if you read it, read it for fun, without other expectations. I certainly wouldn't put it in the "educational" category, though I'd think most of us can identify with portions of it and associated feelings and anxieties. I did love some of the humor in the book too --- lots of quick wit there! Very cute.

Thank you to whoever posted the Today Show clip. Interestingly, the one person in the interview who thought it was evil didn't even read the book. He could have at least done his homework first, and that might have given him some credibility. Or not!

I'd be interested in hearing about what books you folks like better --- either those who enjoyed this series or those who did not. I need some fun reads.

 

[kimuk]

I've read it as what it is - fiction. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Latina49]

I've read it as what it is - fiction. Nothing more and nothing less.

Same here friend...Nothing more and nothing less, just good ol' entertainment Plus I don't get paid to critique...lol

 

[candy_chocolate_kisses]

I just finshed the first book...as so many others have stated it is a easy ready... I will start the 2nd tonight...I wouldn't say it is the best novel that depict the sm/bd interaction nor it is it the worst! it is what is is! okay fiction! But I will say the book does have it moments! I thought the contract was funny!

 

[ellezee]

But I will say the book does have it moments! I thought the contract was funny!

It does have its moments! The contract was quite good. A couple of their email exchanges made me laugh out loud.

 

[ellezee]

Its popularity isn't lost on the major Hollywood studios.
http://www.deadline.com/2012/03/uni...f-grey/#utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Pure]

query

for textual comparisons with Master of the Universe, see


http://www.blogher.com/50-shades-grey-when-if-fan-fiction-not-fan-fiction



http://www.blogher.com/frame.php?ur...e-versus-fifty-shades-by-e-l-james-comparison


Looks 90% the same except for names.

anyone know where i can get a free online copy of Master of the Universe, the original text?

Examples: MoTU first 50SoG, second.
=========

MoTU I Fifty Shades of Grey

There‘s a knock at the door and Blond Number Two enters. “Mr Cullen, forgive me for interrupting but your next meeting is in two minutes.

There’s a knock at the door, and Blonde Number Two enters. “Mr. Grey, forgive me for interrupting, but your next meeting is in two minutes.
===============


As I leave the city limits behind me I begin to feel foolish and embarrassed. Surely I‘m over-reacting to something that I‘m imagining…. Okay, so he‘s very attractive, confident, commanding, so at ease with himself. But on the flip side he‘s also arrogant, and in spite of his impeccable manners, he‘s very autocratic, and cold… well on the surface, and an involuntary shiver runs down my spine. He may be arrogant but then he‘s accomplished so much at such a young age, and I can tell he doesn‘t suffer fools gladly, why should he? I am irritated again that Rose didn‘t give me a brief biography.

As I leave the city limits behind, I begin to feel foolish and embarrassed as I replay the interview in my mind. Surely, I’m overreacting to something that’s imaginary. Okay, so he’s very attractive, confident, commanding, at ease with himself – but on the flip side, he’s arrogant, and for all his impeccable manners, he’s autocratic and cold. Well, on the surface. An involuntary shiver runs down my spine. He may be arrogant, but then he has a right to be – he’s accomplished so much at such a young age. He doesn’t suffer fools gladly, but why should he? Again, I’m irritated that Kate didn’t give me a brief biography.

============


“What about our arrangement?”"We don’t have an arrangement yet.”He narrows his eyes at me, then seems to remember himself. Releasing my hand, he takes my elbow and leads me out of the room. “This conversation is not over,” he whispers threateningly as we enter the dining room. Oh crapola, don‘t get your panties in such a twist… and give me back mine. I glare at him.The dining room reminds me of our private dinner at the Heathman. A crystal chandelier hangs over the dark wood table and there‘s a massive, ornately carved mirror on the wall. The table is laid and covered with a large linen table cloth, a bowl of pale pink peonies as the centre piece. It‘s quite stunning, and then I remember Edward mentioning that Esme was an interior designer.

“What about our arrangement”"We don’t have an arrangement yet.” He narrows his eyes, and then seems to remember himself. Releasing my hand, he takes my elbow and leads me out of the room. “This conversation is not over,” he whispers threateningly as we enter the dining room. Oh, crapola. Don’t get your panties in such a twist… and give me back mine. I glare at him.The dining room reminds me of our private dinner at the Heathman. A crystal chandelier hangs over the dark wood table and there’s a massive, ornately carved mirror on the wall. The table is laid and covered with a crisp white linen tablecloth, a bowl of pale pink peonies as the centerpiece. It’s stunning.

==============


Edward, embarrassed or frustrated by the lavish attention I‘m receiving from the remaining Cullens, grabs my hand and pulls me to his side.”Well let‘s not frighten her away or spoil her with too much affection,” he grumbles.”Oh Edward, stop teasing.” Esme scolds him indulgently, her eyes glowing with love and affection for him. Somehow I don‘t think he‘s teasing. I surreptitiously watch their interaction. It‘s obvious Esme adores him, with a mother’s unconditional love. He bends and kisses her stiffly.

Christian, embarrassed or frustrated by the lavish attention I’m receiving from the remaining Greys, grabs my hand and pulls me to his side.”Let’s not frighten her away or spoil her with too much affection,” he grumbles.”Christian, stop teasing.” Grace scolds him indulgently, her eyes glowing with love and affection for him. Somehow, I don’t think he’s teasing. I surreptitiously watch their interaction. It’s obvious Grace adores him with a mother’s unconditional love. He bends and kisses her stiffly

==========


The apartment is achingly empty and unfamiliar. I have not lived here long enough for it to feel like home. I head straight to my room and there, hanging limply at the end of my bed, is a very sad deflated helicopter balloon. Echo Charlie, looking and feeling exactly like me. I grab it angrily off my bedrail, snapping the tie, and hug it to me. Oh, what have I done? I fall onto my bed, shoes and all, and howl. The pain is indescribable… physical, mental, metaphysical… it is everywhere, seeping into the marrow of my bones. Grief, this is grief, and I‘ve brought it on myself. Deep down, a nasty unbidden thought comes from my inner goddess, her lip curled in a snarl. The physical pain from the bite of a belt is nothing, nothing compared to this devastation. I curl up, desperately clutching the flat foil balloon and Taylor‘s handkerchief, and surrender myself to my grief.

The apartment is achingly empty and unfamiliar. I have not lived here long enough for it to feel like home. I head straight to my room, and there, hanging limply at the end of my bed, is a very sad, deflated helicopter balloon. Charlie Tango, looking and feeling exactly like me. I grab it angrily off my bedrail, snapping the tie, and hug it to me. Oh – what have I done? I fall onto my bed, shoes and all, and howl. The pain is indescribable… physical, mental… metaphysical… it is everywhere, seeping into the marrow of my bones. Grief. This is grief – and I’ve brought it on myself. Deep down, a nasty, unbidden thought comes from my inner goddess, her lip curled in a snarl… the physical pain from the bite of a belt is nothing, nothing compared to this devastation. I curl up, desperately clutching the flat foil balloon and Taylor’s handkerchief, and surrender myself to my grief

 

[lovecraft68]

I think there should be an article when does fan fic become plagiarism over "paying homage" to something else.

This author is making a killing and about to make even more with a movie deal and as it has been stated here it's all but a word for word rendition of a previous series.

I think the reason some people posting here and in some AH forum's sound a little bitter is that although it really is tough to come up with an all original concept these days, it must be nice to make a fortune not even trying to cover up the fact you're a rip off.

 

[Stella_Omega]

An author who reuses their own material is not plagarising. it's a little bit weird, yes, but get used to it folks, it will be more and more common as time goes on. It's one of the downfalls of the internet age.

I think the reason some people posting here and in some AH forum's sound a little bitter is that although it really is tough to come up with an all original concept these days, it must be nice to make a fortune not even trying to cover up the fact you're a rip off.

You yourself have been exceptionally bitter about this book, dear.

And you've also been the Grand Master of Making Shit Up about it, too. if you are going to roam the forums jumping into every convo you can find to slag this book-- do your credibility a favor and read the damn thing.

anyone know where i can get a free online copy of Master of the Universe, the original text?

Here you go, google was my friend.

 

[Pure]

thanks stella for some reason the pages were hard to highlight and paste, but i got them.


it's an interesting question: Master is heavily borrowing concepts and ideas from Twilight; so much so that Master cannot be sold, unless EL wants a lawsuit from Meyer. (the basic fanfic implicit agreement--no money off my characters, no lawsuit).

EL, however, redrafts Master,90% copying *herself* except that she renames the characters (hence not plagiarism). This redraft is marketed (new fiction, says Random House) as 50 Shades and makes millions.

Surely 50 Shades then is heavily borrowed (in concept & character), and since it's sold, EL can be sued by Meyers for borrowing concepts and characters. I'm not commenting on morality or literary artistry here (though the latter is NOT great), just the law.