Gun Control or what?

[JackLuis]

First of all Bot Boy says Taxes have no effect on the Economy? Well, he obviously never studied Economics at any level. Taxes restrict the marginal propensity to Save AND the marginal propensity to consume since Tax increases are ALWAYS enacted at a higher marginal differential than (pay check), earnings increases on a macro level.
I know those are big words and even bigger concepts for you to comprehend, but it is true.

And, for you, JACK IN THE BOX, (Jack Luis- You poor bastard) you're still blaming Bush Cheney for things? What an ass you are. The Jug-Eared Jackass has F'd up this entire country with your liberal BS and, COMPANIES ARE FLEEING YOUR CRAZY STATE LIKE SHEEP FROM A WOLF !!

The US has the highest Corporate Tax in the World.

Check the Stats, dumbass.

Guilt is guilt, time does not heal it. Companies are fleeing because of things like NAFT, ( thank you Billy Bob).

And I never said Bot Boy was right did I?

I never said "Tax the Corporations" I said tax the paper shuffling parasites. If RWNJ's would learn to actually read instead of Knee Jerk we might have a chance for a real discussion w/o name calling and poo flinging.

Asshole!

 

[Ubiquitious_too]

Guilt is guilt, time does not heal it. Companies are fleeing because of things like NAFT, ( thank you Billy Bob).

And I never said Bot Boy was right did I?

I never said "Tax the Corporations" I said tax the paper shuffling parasites. If RWNJ's would learn to actually read instead of Knee Jerk we might have a chance for a real discussion w/o name calling and poo flinging.

Asshole!

I addressed you both separately, dumbass.
What are the Paper Shuffling Parasites? The people with the brains? Or assholes like you?

 

[BotanyBoy]

there doesn't seem to be an effective difference between taxing the rich and taxing their businesses.

See I think that is a falsehood that liburhulz build their bullshit upon to attack corporate entities because it's easier than fighting Republicans to bend the 1% over and make them pay some fucking taxes.

Mostly because (R) has designed corporations as entities used to take those taxes and stick them right back up the poor folks asses at the cash register.

They are going to react in the same ways for the same reasons.

What I'm saying is that raising the minimum wage does not drive inflation.

I don't think they can anymore, we have all teh offshore banking by the balls, it's not 1980 anymore.

And if minimum wage is inflating my products you can bet your sweet tits it's inflating other prices everywhere else too. Some later and or to a lesser/more estent than mine but the Waltons, Bill Gates nor any of the bankers out there will eat a higher MW. They will automate, send jobs to China or nickle and dime that cost back.

No it's not the primary engine driving inflation, but it's a at the very least a wheel bearing or drive shaft.

First of all Bot Boy says Taxes have no effect on the Economy? Well, he obviously never studied Economics at any level.

You obviously never learned how to read.

Pardon me, I have to go make so much money it would hurt your feelings.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm curious why you think taxing the rich is different from taxing their companies. Taking money from them is taking money from them. What difference does it make precisely how we do it? I get for "fairness" sake it makes a difference but from a practical sense it doesn't.

As for eating the MW increase companies in the US have done exactly that for most of a century. That's just the simple fact. If it's a wheel that's fine, but there are three others and an engine! It certainly falls well within "risks I'm happy to take given past indicators."

 

[BotanyBoy]

fucking weird lit glitch shit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm curious why you think taxing the rich is different from taxing their companies.

Because taxing a rich person takes from THEM.

When you tax a company they can shove that tax up their consumers ass's, which disproportionately fucks poor and middle class.

Taking money from them is taking money from them.

No it's not....because companies are not people.

What difference does it make precisely how we do it?

Like I said, because SRFingerprints.com Inc can and does shove every single penny of expense, including taxes and MW up it's consumers ass, it has to or it closes it's doors.

Sean Renaud can't, Sean Renaud has to pay. But THAT would be diabolical socialism....LOL

As for eating the MW increase companies in the US have done exactly that for most of a century. That's just the simple fact.

No it's not...the consumers of every company out there subject to that law pay those increases, or that company sends it's unskilled labor to China giving American workers the ultimate finger.

 

[Sean Renaud]

When your company pays taxes is your company paying taxes on Sean Renaud?

Or is it paying for SRFingahPrintz.com inc ?

Do you get to pass your personal income taxes onto your consumer or do they HAVE to come out of what SRFingahPrinz.com inc payed Sean Renaud (which is a write off expense for SRFingahPrintz.comi inc)??

When you tax my company it's a lot easier for me to shove that tax bill up the consumers ass than it is for me to do the same thing on my personal income that my company pays me.

I am my company for an intents and purposes. As I've stated before I don't really pass anything on to my customers. I need what I need and want in order to survive and I charge as much as my customers will pay. The only real difference between a tax levied by the government and Comcast deciding to raise my prices is that a tax (in theory) would effect all of my competition equally and thus everybody united would raise their prices. (Though as UPS creeps into my lane that's less and less true since they already have a lot of shit.

That is not a simple fact.

Cmpanies CAN'T just eat that real/arbitrary expense. That cost HAS to be covered by the consumer 100% before ANYONE MAKES ANYTHING. Last I checked the billionaires still ballin and the poor just get poorer every time they 'stick it to tah man'.

Then once again you are stuck needing to explain why inflation remains very steady regardless of anything else going on. Not tax changes, not minimum wage changes, not taxes remaining steady or even dropping and not the minimum wage remaining steady. These things simply have not driven inflation. Would you like the numbers or is there some other measurement you would like? Because it's not like we don't know what inflation has done for decades or what the minimum wage has done to compare them.

The others are just taxes, 'regulations' there to give some bureaucrat 20/hr + pension etc etc. together they incur a cost to companies that HAS to be paid by consumers AT the register, no exceptions.

Go ahead raise 15/hr I bet it just makes shit worse.....more jobs to china, more automation and/or higher prices to cover that cost.

The ONLY fucking way you're going to stick it to a company? Is to not give them your money. All other taxes? Consumer covered.

I don't think wages WILL be raised to 15/hr. I'd be shocked to see anything beyond 10. That said I'd be willing to play just to see the actual effect. My suspicion is that things wouldn't be as bad as you're predicting.

All my EVERYTHING is consumer covered. But until it reaches whatever tipping points there are it really doesn't much matter.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I am my company for an intents and purposes. As I've stated before I don't really pass anything on to my customers.

So your customers don't cover the expense of running your business?


Does that include all the taxes?

 

[Sean Renaud]

So your customers don't cover the expense of running your business?


Does that include all the taxes?

They cover the expense of me going to the bar.

 

[BotanyBoy]

They cover the expense of me going to the bar.

So you do pass on all your expenses to them.....

What makes you think Wal Mart or McButtholes is any different?

As we keep taxing their companies and they keep getting richer and the wage slaves never get anywhere no matter what they are given, what makes you think they are going to eat 15/hr out of their own pockets instead of 3 cents here and 10 cents there?

They aren't going to....if they were we wouldn't have the income disparity we do now.

 

[BotanyBoy]

My point being as things stand we are just letting the poor feel good about fucking themselves while the rich LOLZ. Fuck I did it....CA/US boned me for what looks like almost 37 grand worth of BUUUUSHIT fees for the privilege of them not shutting me down because paperwork reasons they made up to charge me. Guess what? Prices went up a few cents, and I got it...fucking mostly poor folks and proportionally fucking them the hardest. If I'm doing it so are a lot of other people.

Until we change some laws on how we run our economy/taxation system taxing corporations and upping MW is pissing up a flag pole.

We simply need to overhaul our system in a way that holds the rich down and makes them either pay some taxes or spend a bunch more of their money.

IDK how, or by what mechanism.

But more of the same ol' shit? Not really my idea of progress. We need real tax reform for the benefit of America as a whole and not just the top ~5%.....or the beatings will continue until morale has improved.

Toss in some trade reform with China and a few other slave labor nations and we might be on our way towards less poverty, less astronomical income disparity.

 

[PoppingTom]

We simply need to overhaul our system in a way that holds the rich down and makes them either pay some taxes or spend a bunch more of their money.

IDK how, or by what mechanism.

Agreed.

(and the mechanism isn't the problem, if there is a will to do it)

We should start by not taxing anyone who makes less than 35k anything first of all....there is just no good coming of that.

Why not taxing workers? They're a reliable tax source, they don't waste 80% of their time avoiding to pay, and if the wage is OK, the worker won't complain about the tax height. (I mean, there have been riots about too low wages, but never about too high taxation of the wage).

That's one reason more for MW: it's kind of taxing the company more.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Why not taxing workers?

Workers that are below the poverty line?

No good comes from taxing them, that is counter productive and just exacerbates their poverty because they don't have shit to give in the first place. I've made 35k a year and it ain't pretty......the fact we make people like that give any money to the government is fuckin' shameful.

That's one reason more for MW: it's kind of taxing the company more.

It's not kind of, it is taxation.

Any time the government incurs an arbitrary cost upon a company of any kind it is at it's core a tax.

 

[PoppingTom]

Toss in some trade reform with China and a few other slave labor nations and we might be on our way towards less poverty, less astronomical income disparity.

The wages in the slave labor nations rise, too. Maybe there will always be some nations cheaper, but that's not the only thing that matters. African countries like Swaziland have wages that could kill even the lowest Asian wages. But companies who tried to produce there gave up. Too much disbenefit.

 

[PoppingTom]

Workers that are below the poverty line?

The minimum wage should ensure they're above the poverty line.

Any time the government incurs an arbitrary cost upon a company of any kind it is at it's core a tax.

You mean, if the government forces the company to do education and training, it's taxing ?

 

[BotanyBoy]

The wages in the slave labor nations rise, too. Maybe there will always be some nations cheaper, but that's not the only thing that matters. African countries like Swaziland have wages that could kill even the lowest Asian wages. But companies who tried to produce there gave up. Too much disbenefit.

LOL because Swaziland is a bunch of thugs.....not government slaves like China.

No money isn't everything, but anyone who thinks it's not right up at the top of the list when it comes to doing bidnizz is fuckin' delusional.

 

[PoppingTom]

LOL because Swaziland is a bunch of thugs.....not government slaves like China.

Swaziland is a kingdom. People there are more goverment slaves than the Chinese.

No money isn't everything, but anyone who thinks it's not right up at the top of the list when it comes to doing bidnizz is fuckin' delusional.

That's right, but the wage is just one factor, and not always the most important.

 

[Sean Renaud]

So you do pass on all your expenses to them.....

What makes you think Wal Mart or McButtholes is any different?

As we keep taxing their companies and they keep getting richer and the wage slaves never get anywhere no matter what they are given, what makes you think they are going to eat 15/hr out of their own pockets instead of 3 cents here and 10 cents there?

They aren't going to....if they were we wouldn't have the income disparity we do now.

I'm passing everything on to them ALREADY. Changing my circumstances had minimal effect on them because if they'd pay more I'd charge more. If I can't afford to stay in busines I can't afford to stay in business (which may happen all on it's own) but I can't charge more than I am already.

They've eaten it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME OVER MOST OF THE LAST CENTURY. That's just the simple truth of the matter.

And ultimately if wages DO go up 15/hr and they raise prices 10% who the fuck cares? The poor got a 100% pay increase. But again we know what has happened every time we've tried this. I know what you want to be true because it's economics 101 but history 101 says it hasn't happened that time any other time. What makes this time special?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Swaziland is a kingdom. People there are more goverment slaves than the Chinese.

Nope....

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/china

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/swaziland


China simply exerts more control over it's peeps.

That's right, but the wage is just one factor, and not always the most important.

Yea....so?

At the end of the day if the bottom line is better (they make more money) that's what they will do.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm passing everything on to them ALREADY. Changing my circumstances had minimal effect on them because if they'd pay more I'd charge more.

15/hr will pay more......and you will charge more because you want to stay in bidnizz. Unless you don't have employees then it won't really matter, you can charge a little more and things might actually be better for your for a little bit.

But shortly after 15/hr won't buy any more then that 7.50 will today, and it won't take long.

If I can't afford to stay in busines I can't afford to stay in business (which may happen all on it's own) but I can't charge more than I am already.

Then you will be fucked, the rest of us all have to charge more to pay those cost or we simply get taxed out of existence.

They've eaten it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME OVER MOST OF THE LAST CENTURY. That's just the simple truth of the matter.

If it were we would not have the income disparity we have now.

Reality is the 1% take all those "fuck corporations maaaaaaaaaan....TAX EM! taxes and stick them right back up the poors asses at the register.

And ultimately if wages DO go up 15/hr and they raise prices 10% who the fuck cares? The poor got a 100% pay increase.

Anyone with employees.

And they don't get an increase, those evil corporations will be taking back every single fuckin' penny of it and they will be in just as shitty of a situation then as they are now.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lpQvoHDEkrs/hqdefault.jpg

But again we know what has happened every time we've tried this. I know what you want to be true because it's economics 101 but history 101 says it hasn't happened that time any other time. What makes this time special?

It's not special....which is why 7.50 hr today is just as fuckin' lame as 5.50 was before that.

 

[JackLuis]

Well perhaps we aren't considering the obvious and that is to control inflation and reduce the erosion of earnings. So what really causes inflation?

Would it possibly be that the real driver of inflation is the Government pouring money into a rat hole of endless wars and weapons? $700 Billion a year takes a big fucken' rat hole. And how much of that 'trickles down'?

Or how much does the DEA burn up, or the NSA/CIA Intel Industrial complex? And how much do they actually contribute to our country?

The Pentagon 'lost track' of $24 billion in 2001, Want to bet how much they recovered, found, or wasted thru bureaucratic incompetence?

 

[DeYaKen]

Well perhaps we aren't considering the obvious and that is to control inflation and reduce the erosion of earnings. So what really causes inflation?

Would it possibly be that the real driver of inflation is the Government pouring money into a rat hole of endless wars and weapons? $700 Billion a year takes a big fucken' rat hole. And how much of that 'trickles down'?

Or how much does the DEA burn up, or the NSA/CIA Intel Industrial complex? And how much do they actually contribute to our country?

The Pentagon 'lost track' of $24 billion in 2001, Want to bet how much they recovered, found, or wasted thru bureaucratic incompetence?

Trickle Down works on the basis that an individual's spending increases in proportion to their income. That only holds true for the less well off. People who earn 1000 times the average wage, do not live in 1000 houses. They do not drive 1000 cars. They do not eat 3000 square meals ad day. The whole principle of trickle down is based on the idea that people have a finite capacity for wealth. We all know that isn't true.

If taxation is the main cause for people and companies moving out of a state or country, why are there any people or industries left in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, and yes even Germany. All of these countries have a higher rate of individual and corporate taxation than would be acceptable in the US. The people stay because they have a higher standard of education for everyone, not just the few. They have healthcare that they can rely on. One that doesn't put a cap on how much money can be spent on making you well. I could go on but what it comes down to is that they are happier.

The companies stay because they have plenty of skilled workers on tap. They can get home grown Engineers, Scientists, Managers etc. They do not have to travel the world offering large salaries in an effort to tempt the people they need to come to their country to work. Their electronic communications systems are great even in rural areas. Their energy is cheap, clean and extremely reliable. Taxation is not the be all and end all when it comes to location of a company, it is only a contributory factor.

Taxation is not a bad thing. It is how it is spent that makes it bad. Scrimping on the salaries of public employees, like teachers and policemen and women results in a lower skill workforce. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

 

[Ubiquitious_too]

Ok. As a steadfast European you may have a point, but then the EU is already steeped in Socialism.
The US is not there yet.
I've read about the Dutch revising their tax structure back in the mid 90's and they suffered a parade of companies leaving.
Regardless, people and companies in the US are much more mobile from state to state- especially foreign companies with US operations.
California IS losing due to their exorbitant State Tax structure. Texas, on the other hand is gaining.
Boeing expanded into Carolina and Auto companies expanded into the South to escape both Taxes and Unions.
Simply Google "Companies leaving California."

ANY substantial increase in costs can cause inflation unless productivity can offset the increase to the bottom line. When a new, or higher Tax is implemented, productivity cannot improve quickly enough to offset the tax. Hence, price increases and inflation.

Such Would happen by increasing MW by 40-60%. Most certainly where a large part of a labor intensive business has MW employees.

 

[phrodeau]

What, is inflation the bogeyman of the week? Do we need inflation control more than gun control?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_KuUh8iKx_c/TX_URc8gLpI/AAAAAAAAA6M/ES2msXT72PI/s1600/U.S.%2BYearly%2BInflation%2Bsince%2B1900.jpg
Inflation has been under 3% for over two decades.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Well perhaps we aren't considering the obvious and that is to control inflation and reduce the erosion of earnings. So what really causes inflation?

Would it possibly be that the real driver of inflation is the Government pouring money into a rat hole of endless wars and weapons? $700 Billion a year takes a big fucken' rat hole. And how much of that 'trickles down'?

Or how much does the DEA burn up, or the NSA/CIA Intel Industrial complex? And how much do they actually contribute to our country?

The Pentagon 'lost track' of $24 billion in 2001, Want to bet how much they recovered, found, or wasted thru bureaucratic incompetence?

Sure....not saying those wars are anything other than a rat hole.

But MW won't help the poor...it will not save them from Wal Mart or McD's. Until we change some other shit it's just a tax against the poor. Wal mart will stick that tax up the consumers ass long before the Walton family gives up their Christmas bonuses.

. .
California IS losing due to their exorbitant State Tax structure. Texas, on the other hand is gaining.

LOL no they aren't....

After not paying Texas ASTO-NOMICAL property taxes here in CA the income tax was actually a break by comparison.

*shrug* just saying....the only thing more expensive about CA is the property itself, because more people want to live here.

Enjoy your fire ants!!